How many players from your club/province would make this team?

First topic message reminder :

There is a bit of discussion going on about the Crusaders on the International section. I thought a much more interesting debate would be how many players from your team would make the starting 15 for the Crusaders?

Before anyone accuses me of being a Crusaders sycophant, I'm living in Hurricanes territory and the Crusaders team is chock a block with the cream ofhurricanes youth. So I'm probably best described as bitter and twisted.

The team that ran out last weekend was:

15 Israel Dagg
14 Tom Marshall
13 Ryan Crotty
12 Tom Taylor
11 Zac Guildford
10 Dan Carter
9 Andy Ellis
1 Wyatt Crockett
2 Corey Flynn
3 Owen Franks
4 Luke Romano
5 Sam Whitelock
6 George Whitelock
7 Matt Todd
8 Kieran Read
    Replacements
16 Ben Funnell
17 Joe Moody
18 Luke Whitelock
19 Richie McCaw
20 Willi Heinz
21 Tyler Bleyendaal
22 Adam Whitelock

Obviously injuries and fitness come into it. I'm figuring that Fruen, and would be in the picture if they weren't injured. MCCaw would probably be starting if he hadn't had a break.

From a Hurricanes perspective I'd like to think the following players would have a show:
Dane Coles at hooker,
Vito or Thrush on the reserves (or at 6),
Perenara as one of the halfbacks,
Savea as wing
Jane on the wing (assuming he was fit)
Barrett as first five/wing/full back cover on the bench

How about players from you local franchise?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Sorry Sgt but Mas hasn't been on much form of late and the French scrum strength owes a lot to Domingo, his technique is awesome. Cole improved the Lions scrummaging on the second and third tests from the bench and dismantled Tonghuia in the AP final, Toulon will be keenly aware of both his and Ayerza's talents having seen their expensive front row including Hayman go backwards in the HEC.

Franks has never wowed me and looked only solid against the Reds though I only caught the first half.

Have to disagree there Sam. Domingo's set piece work hasn't been at his previous level since returning from serious injury. Mas (after a poor 2011) has been superb, I've seen him dismantle many a LH in the T14.

I don't think Cole improved our scrum in any game, I think it was more due to Hibbard coming on at a similar time and Aus blowing.

I'm a massive Cole fan but his set piece work has stalled over the last year imo, he rarely dominates against top draw opp.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Just for the record, as an Edinburgh fan, I can confirm that none of our squad would threaten the Crusaders XV.  

fES, don#t be so pessimistic - Ben Atiga would make an excellent water boy and Piers Francis could run on with the kicking tee

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Just for the record, as an Edinburgh fan, I can confirm that none of our squad would threaten the Crusaders XV.  

fES, don#t be so pessimistic - Ben Atiga would make an excellent water boy and Piers Francis could run on with the kicking tee

Dan Carter and Piers Francis on the same pitch....

Sam Warburton for Matt Todd

Leigh Halfpenny for Tom Marshall

I think Tommy Bowe would love playing on the wing in that side, ahead of Marshall most likely. If John Afoa goes back to Auckland after his contract expires at the end of this season as expected I think it will be a pretty big battle between him and Owen Franks for an All Blacks jersey in the next RWC. I'd still have Franks ahead of him but it'll be interesting, Afoa will push him all the way.

I think Pienaar is a better 9 than Ellis, definitely, but I don't think Pienaar would fit into the Crusaders style as well as Ellis, so just Tommy Bowe for me with two very honourable mentions in Afoa and Pienaar.

Probably should have noted that McNicholls would be wing baring his injury.

I think the thing about the Crusaders is their coaching, recruitment and player development. They are constantly looking for the edge through innovation. Kind of hate them, but have to admire them as a franchise.

I think they've changed their style this year. They've taken on board the Canterbury ITM sides attack structure and it's only just clicking.

Very good post...lot of talk about the 'weakness of Crotty and Marshall'.

For me these 2 are very much in the future of NZ rugby. Crotty has been immense these last few matches and there was no one better in that Queensland match:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/8949444/Hinton-Ryan-Crottys-star-continues-to-rise

Tom Marshall goes to the Chiefs next year and he's also one real up and comer- for me reminds of Drew Mitchell...no nonsense, direct straight runner, as is Crotty.

So if the two are weaknesses then the saders could do a lot worse.

Tom Taylor, son of AB and world cup winning Warwick has been useful without starring.

This Saders side is one very talented side, as it usually always is and easily the most consistent non test side in the last 10 years- 12th straight semi is it? this weekend.

Anyway,

For my Blues...

I'd have :

6 Luatua instead of Whitlock
7 Luke Braid instead of Todd (thought the AB selectors got that plain wrong)
Wings Rene Ranger and Frank Halai instead of Marshall and Guilford

Piatau deserves a mention and will be keeping Dagg honest over the next few years as well.

I'd like to say Piri Weepu instead of Ellis at 9 and I know he'd get selected ahead of Ellis higher up but just can't get my fingers to type that one... 

The thing is the Crusaders are more than the sum of their parts. It is the combinations that are effective and man for man you will find a good number of players better than the individuals.

Biltong wrote:The thing is the Crusaders are more than the sum of their parts. It is the combinations that are effective and man for man you will find a good number of players better than the individuals.

Which in my view is what makes a good team

Disagree Sgt, in the second test Hibbard came on a scrum before Cole and we got shunted back and conceded a penalty. The scrums improved as Cole came on. The tiring Aus front row may well have helped.

I think Cole is consistent in his performances but he isn't the biggest of props and doesn't have the biggest initial hit. His strength seems to lie in his technique after the hit which I'm hoping will set him in good stead this season. I think people expect too much, Barnes et al spent so long hyping him that people expect a barnstorming performance every week. The idea he doesn't perform against top level opposition is rubbish as seen against both Saints and Toulon this season.

" The idea he doesn't perform against top level opposition is rubbish as seen against both Saints and Toulon this season."

I wouldn't call Tonga or Sheridan top class opp tbh, both are big guys but not good scrummagers imo.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Biltong wrote:The thing is the Crusaders are more than the sum of their parts. It is the combinations that are effective and man for man you will find a good number of players better than the individuals.

Which in my view is what makes a good team

I think most people would say this crusader team has better individuals then the bulls.... yet if the Crusaders beat the Chiefs on Saturday its a near certainity that the Bulls will pick up their 4th title in 7 years.

Does that mean that the bulls are a better team then the Crusaders???

fa0019 wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Biltong wrote:The thing is the Crusaders are more than the sum of their parts. It is the combinations that are effective and man for man you will find a good number of players better than the individuals.

Which in my view is what makes a good team

I think most people would say this crusader team has better individuals then the bulls.... yet if the Crusaders beat the Chiefs on Saturday its a near certainity that the Bulls will pick up their 4th title in 7 years.

Does that mean that the bulls are a better team then the Crusaders???

Or does it merely demonstrate the power of home advantage, at play-off time in particular?

Well home advantage is determined by overall standings and the Bulls did get more points then the Crusaders so the best team, the most consistent team gets home advantage.... and if they win the title it will be 4 titles in a time when the Crusaders have won 1.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Crusaders are not that great but certainly look like a team coming into some good form.

Their pack is certainly very strong, not sure I've seen them field a weaker midfield than Taylor/Crotty for a while though.

I know there's a few avid viewers of Super rugby Fa, you can normally spot them quite easily.

So you saw Crottys weak effort last weekend when they thrashed the Reds then?

Yea I seen it, he put in a good shift.

The Crusaders have now won their last 9 from 10 matches. They smashed the Reds, thrashed the Chiefs no more than 20 days ago by 43-15 so thinking that its uphill to win that one away is absurd. All of this was without McCaw who is back fresh as can be.

They earlier beat the Bulls 41-19 albeit at home.

The Chiefs have won theire last 7 from 8 with the Saders thrashing their only loss.

The Bulls have aso won 9 from 10 with a last loss to the Stormers. tend to forgive those ones as one side has nothing to lose.

The Brumbies are decidedly flaky in comparison to the other three. A non convincing win vs the Cheetahs at home and a loss to the force the week before. A win in SA is the most unlikeliest outcome from this weekend by far.

The Chiefs will want revenge an have a very good side, and are defending their title. This match is huge.

As a neutral in this conference part of me wants the Chiefs to win as a Bulls match in Hamilton is our more likely chance of a title.

But the other part would like to see the Saders take only the second oveseas title vs the Bulls against the odds.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Just for the record, as an Edinburgh fan, I can confirm that none of our squad would threaten the Crusaders XV.  

fES, don#t be so pessimistic - Ben Atiga would make an excellent water boy and Piers Francis could run on with the kicking tee

Dan Carter and Piers Francis on the same pitch....

Ross Rennie IMO would be the only one with even half a chance. But look at who he would have to displace to get on the bench....