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Does Australia get up more for games against SA than NZ?

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Does Australia get up more for games against SA than NZ? Empty Does Australia get up more for games against SA than NZ?

Post by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 28 Aug - 21:26

If you look back at matches NZ have played against SA and Australia since 2006, SA have won 6 out of 18 and Australia have won 4 out of 25 with a draw last year. 2009 was a whitewash to SA that tipped their victories over NZ but to me the most interesting statistic is the games between SA and Australia. SA have just won 7 games against Australia (an extra game at the World Cup) and NZ has the same amount of victories - 12.

When you look at the victories NZ scored over Australia during that time, you'll find quite a few were narrow victories of less than 3 points. Sometimes a team has a roll on another much like Australia had in the late 90s and early 00s over NZ or recently Australia over Wales. But I find it strange that a team as formidable as SA whose strengths complement the weaknesses of Australia have so much trouble, whereas other teams in world rugby don't seem to trouble them as much (except for Irish home games before Sin é rattles onto this thread Very Happy ).

But what do these statistics suggest? Is NZ better handling the ref than SA is against Australia? Does a counter attacking game hurt the Wallabies more than a brutal rectal examination up front? How can one team be so ill at ease against the number one ranked side and yet so comfortable against the number 2? What do you think is going on here?

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Post by rodders Wed 28 Aug - 21:38

It's just a clash of styles I think. You say SAs strengths match up to Australia's weaknesses but I'd say the reverse is also true.

Australia don't make the mistake of getting drawn into a forward arm wrestle against the Boks. They stick to their plan and take their points, use their footballing ability and guile.

Their problem against NZ is that their strengths are not strengths anymore. NZ are more clinical, have the better backrow, footballers and backline.
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 28 Aug - 21:46

I don't know rodders. The Soceroos wouldn't have lost to Tahiti like the All Whites did. Very Happy 

I wonder if SA is more up for games against NZ than they are against Australia as well. Dunedin saw SA all over us at the breakdown and their defence in the centres in Jburg was their downfall rather than up front. SA finally played convincingly at home against Oz but still dropped the away game. The travel schedule is harder for the Oz game. This year will be interesting to see how SA react because they came off a disappointing draw to Argentina and still lost.

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Post by Taylorman Thu 29 Aug - 7:20

Still think oz are generally poor this year. They seem to have far too many journeymen...capable but lacking in quality. theyre also terribly disjointed as a unit. They dont seem to play as a 'team' but rather individuals finding their way. I think the Bok pack is going to be too much for them, with the backs finishing them off late.


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Post by Biltong Thu 29 Aug - 7:24

For South Africa there is one true opponent, the epitome of the dream game, beat New Zealand, they want to dominate them in the forwards, then sumo ate the life out of them, then pulverize them, but there is always respect they know any win over them must be savoured.

Then you have the others, still a match that must be won, but it just isn't the All Blacks.
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Post by Biltong Thu 29 Aug - 7:30

On Australia, prior to the last three years South Africa and Australia had an almost unspoken agreement of beating each other at home, the last three years has been an anomaly.

There has been a number of factors in the last 9 tests, by memory we only won two, but there were second string teams in 2011 prior to the RWC, then there was the infamous last minute penalty goal of Beale (50 meter kick) when we got penalized whilst on attack, the Bryce Lawrence debacle and the last minute comeback from OZ at home last year.

It is just one of those inexplicable series of events that one just needs to move on from.

Then of course there was the PDV factor that brought nothing to the table after the Lions series and lost close to 50% of all his test matches between November 2009 and end of December 2011
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Post by fa0019 Fri 30 Aug - 1:15

I agree with BB, I think its the other way around... SA is more likely to get up for a match with NZ then AUS.

AUS' style certain bothers SA both club and country wise.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Aug - 1:17

Could it be that SA believes it is better than Australia and turn up thinking that they should win? Against NZ they know they can win but they need to play well?

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Post by fa0019 Fri 30 Aug - 1:25

I myself think its the skills thing. AUS generally soak up pressure from SA rather well... a bit like the brumbies vs. the Bulls recently. AUS are a very calm side, very good at retaining possession and running through the phases.

With SA you know what you're going to get.

With NZ they always have options... they can play a tight game, a loose game etc. Makes things more difficult for AUS.

But NZ vs. SA is near always a car crash event. NZ gets sucked in sometimes.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Aug - 1:30

I think they get sucked in sometimes thinking they can outplay SA in the backs without doing the work up front and sometimes I think SA think they can smash SA into submission up front.

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Post by fa0019 Fri 30 Aug - 3:01

I think you're right there Kia on both ... assuming you mean SA think they can smash AUS.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Fri 30 Aug - 3:09

Australia are in awe of NZ rugby and psychologically see themselves as  having no chance if winning. This spell was only broken briefly around a decade ago and normality has returned.

I also believe Australian sport in general is ina slump. Possibly caused by their restrictive immigration policy and the lack of recession in australia.

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Post by fa0019 Fri 30 Aug - 3:13

yeah a lack of a recession... thats it.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 30 Aug - 3:14

Yes Australia I meant.

Will be an intriguing game. SA will have seen the Lions and NZ dismantle Oz and feel they are there for the taking. That could be dangerous.

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Post by GloriousEmpire Fri 30 Aug - 3:21

fa0019 wrote:yeah a lack of a recession... thats it.
It's a sociological point of fact that armies and sports teams become naff if a country remains buoyant whilst those around it struggle.

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Post by alanmackie6 Fri 30 Aug - 17:44

THE Great confrontation is between NZ and SA,the AllBlacks nearly always match SA physically.There matches are usually close and decided by goal kicking there win %is about
45% v NZ.Australia have beaten Nz more than any other side and in the pro era once more
than SA{in 3Ns}and RWC`s they tend to move teams around more goalkicking recently has
cost them a lot of matches recently versus everyone.

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