Is it to be Pistols at Dawn ??

It surprises me that Novak should feel the need to publicly voice it as Im pretty sure we were all expecting him to do what he has to do anyway but will it be enough to have Rafa shaking in his Nikes.? causing sleepless nights ?. I dont think so.


http://www.sport24.co.za/Tennis/ATPTour/Djokovic-sends-Nadal-warning-20130928

I suspect he was probably responding to a question, something like "have you accepted that it's inevitable Rafa will take the number 1 spot off you?"

And to be fair, he can't really say anything other than what he said. He can't say "yeah it's over. I've got the cigars out for the rest of the season as it doesn't matter anymore."

Novak is not going to just run away with his tail between his legs... He will fight to the death! Pistols at dawn, in your face show off dancing, yelling at the crowd for support, shirt ripping, car top dancing, irritating impressions, winning 54 shot rallies, proclaiming his superiority to the press and even throwing in some top notch tennis. He will fight Nadal in Beiging, Shanghai, the WTF, the AO... he will fight him anywhere... but most of all what he is really fighting for is the "holy grail" of Roland Garros...

You can't help but love him  

I would have thought it would have been easy enough to have evaded that kind of question .. he is pretty nimble on his feet when he wants to sidestep awkward questions in fact I have always thought Novak handles the press exceptionally well never giving much away he is always very diplomatic.. His presser after the USO was a truly magnificent example of a professional concealing his emotions. So I dont buy that Danny

Like I said on the other thread - I love the comment, but given the fact that there isnt a damn thing Nole can do to stop Nadal due to the seeding, its reminiscent of Joe Hart's comments that Citeh will keep fighting for the league even when they are ten points behind with one game to play.

I think we're back to the days of reading far to much into every utterance these guys make.
All he says is that he'll keep trying to win matches, that Rafa's been better this year and that he's concentrating on Roland Garros because in his mind it's reached mythical proportions and he can't sleep at night because he's haunted by his failure to win it.

I know he said he was concentrating on the China Open, but come on - read between the lines

Well of course he will fight kr which is the purpose of my saying that I felt it was a pointless  comment for Nole to make we all know he will .. apart from the No.1. spot there is a principle at stake here. However by doing so I think he is showing a tad less confidence than I thought.  Maybe it will be merely "chopsticks" at dawn  

JuliusHMarx wrote:I think we're back to the days of reading far to much into every utterance these guys make.
All he says is that he'll keep trying to win matches, that Rafa's been better this year and that he's concentrating on Roland Garros because in his mind it's reached mythical proportions and he can't sleep at night because he's haunted by his failure to win it.

I know he said he was concentrating on the China Open, but come on - read between the lines

My point is JM is that the lines need not have been written to read between. Nole is usually much more astute than that.

I just don't see that he said anything that any other top player wouldn't have said or hasn't said at some point. It just seemed like an average run-of-the-mill statement by Djoko.

Am I reading a different article to everyone else? Isn't he just coming out with standard sound bites here? Nothing to analyse at all.

I dont know BS - I didnt analyse anything in what he said, just found the futility of the comment endearing.

JuliusHMarx wrote:I just don't see that he said anything that any other top player wouldn't have said or hasn't said at some point. It just seemed like an average run-of-the-mill statement by Djoko.

Sorry I dont agree.. but its immaterial anyway:D 

kingraf wrote:I dont know BS - I didnt analyse anything in what he said, just found the futility of the comment endearing.

If Djoko wins in China he holds off Rafa for another week - in that sense it's not futile. The alternative would be to give up this week - which is not in the nature of any top sportsman. These guys focus on the task in hand to an extraordinary extent.

I thought Nadal only needed a final appearance? Meaning there is really nothing Djokovic can do.... its literally on Nadals racquet

I might be wrong but I think  kr is merely saying what I have already said .. we are not suggesting its futile not to do what he is proposing . its merely the comment to say that he is which  is futile.. I would have thought that everyone would have been surprised if he didn´t go out with all guns blazing.. particularly Rafa

I really don't get what the fuss is about. This is what he said:

"As long as there is a chance, I will fight for that top spot," he said at the dual ATP and WTA event, which is being staged at Beijing's Olympic Park.

"But, again, with no doubt he has the best results this year. This year he's been the best player in the world. I have been having ups and downs throughout this year. But still it was a quite good season for me, but it's not over.

"I want to focus on this week's China Open because this is where I traditionally play well, and I would like to have another successful week."

That is just a regular comment. Nothing extraordinary at all. Nothing to analyse for me. If I could have predicted what he'd say it'd be something like the above.

This is one of those threads where everyone says a minor variation of the consensus and we presume we are debating.

kingraf wrote:I thought Nadal only needed a final appearance? Meaning there is really nothing Djokovic can do.... its literally on Nadals racquet

 
Maybe - I haven't checked. But what if Rafa falls in the quarter finals and Djoko had already lost in the 1st round because he's given up the fight because it was futile? Instead he says he'll fight for the top spot - not a big deal to say that, surely?

But you're right kr - this is a sort of Sunday morning, not much happening debate

Well excuse me I have just found a new brick wall to go and bang my head against .. its that or the dentist is pulling teeth for free today
 cya

kingraf wrote:This is one of those threads where everyone says a minor variation of the consensus and we presume we are debating.

Actually, I'd say its one of those threads where everyone says something slightly different but broadly similar to the majority view, and presume we are discussing.  

that was clever Danny!

Haddie-nuff wrote:It surprises me that Novak should feel the need to publicly voice it as Im pretty sure we were all expecting him to do what he has to do anyway but will it be enough to have Rafa shaking in his Nikes.? causing sleepless nights ?. I dont think so.


http://www.sport24.co.za/Tennis/ATPTour/Djokovic-sends-Nadal-warning-20130928

There's an assumption among certain Nadal fans that every time a player gives an interview where they say want to challenge Rafa, that player is therefore trying to scare him.

It's very strange.

HM Murdoch wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:It surprises me that Novak should feel the need to publicly voice it as Im pretty sure we were all expecting him to do what he has to do anyway but will it be enough to have Rafa shaking in his Nikes.? causing sleepless nights ?. I dont think so.


http://www.sport24.co.za/Tennis/ATPTour/Djokovic-sends-Nadal-warning-20130928

There's an assumption among certain Nadal fans that every time a player gives an interview where they say want to challenge Rafa, that player is therefore trying to scare him.

It's very strange.

But the thing is they do. Not just Djokovic either. There are so many plots and schemes about how to topple Rafa about. Including kicking his water bottles over, sitting for a long time on the bench, making him play faster, hitting his high spinny moonballs for winners with hard flat aggressive shots, punishing his slow second serve, disarming him with a double handed back hand and the list goes on... No other player is the subject of so many plots. But the difference with Djokovic was that he did have a plot that worked and his plot did involved scaring him. I don't blame him for trying to stick with it. I mean just imagine how scary he must have thought it would be if he could have danced with a smiley tennis ball after a win in Montreal? I'm not sure his scare tactics will work in quite the same way now though. And apart from Djokovic I'm not sure there is anyone capable of really scaring Nadal (not counting the rare one off fright) unless there is some frightening youngster out there about to break through.

^^ Scare tactics?? Come on!

These are 6ft plus prime athletes! They've played and won big matches in the biggest arenas. Trying to get a mental edge? Certainly. Trying to scare the opponent? Ridiculous. You make it sound like they're kids!

"No player is the subject of so many plots"

I assume by plots you mean ways to unsettle him? To try and gain a mental advantage? Is there a problem with trying to do this? Isn't this what all his opponents should be doing?

Rafa is a big boy, I think he can handle whatever is thrown at him. And other players should be throwing whatever they can at him to try and beat him because he's the worlds form player.

Retaliation plots perhaps? Rafa is the always the last to come onto the court, last to come to the net to shake hands, hopping around with intensity, slowing down the time between points- all part of his routine to unsettle his opponents (quite rightly, it's a legitimate ploy), so it's no surprise some players will want to unsettle him back in an attempt to gain some mental advantage.
None of these players are scared or frightened though - or attempt to scare or frighten the others - like Danny says, that's for the school playgorund, not the pro tennis circuit.

Good point Julius. Rafa is a master at trying to gain a mental edge using all the things you list above. He does way more of that kind of thing than anyone does to him. Way more.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with it by the way. Why shouldn't he try and get any edge he can, it's the sign of a true winner. I just wish his opponents did more of it back!

Danny_1982

What's the difference between unsettling or trying to get a mental edge and scaring. By scaring I certainly meant the same thing. Ha ha! Of course Rafa is a big boy but in 2011 he definitely looked spooked, scared or unsettled when facing Djokovic because Djokovic had gained a mental edge. Nadal had reasserted himself in 2012 only to get injured. In 2013 who could blame Djokovic for trying to re-claim that mental edge?

Also I would say that a sign of a true winner is winning. All the better if it can be done with just forehands and backhands. Only if they are not up to the task is anything else needed. So although I don't begrudge or think it's wrong to try throwing everything at an opponent I'm more impressed when such things are not required. And I have to admit some of these mental edge tactics make me laugh particularly when dancing with smiley tennis balls is involved.

Gaining a mental edge, or unsettling someone is very different to scaring them. You think Rafa was actually frightened in 2011, or Novak is now? No chance.

You'd prefer it if phychological battles weren't involved, and it was just forehands and backhands? That's a preference thing, so fair enough. But you do realise that Rafa does it more than anyone?

HM Murdoch wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:It surprises me that Novak should feel the need to publicly voice it as Im pretty sure we were all expecting him to do what he has to do anyway but will it be enough to have Rafa shaking in his Nikes.? causing sleepless nights ?. I dont think so.


http://www.sport24.co.za/Tennis/ATPTour/Djokovic-sends-Nadal-warning-20130928

There's an assumption among certain Nadal fans that every time a player gives an interview where they say want to challenge Rafa, that player is therefore trying to scare him.

It's very strange.

No HM its not strange at all what is strange is the title of the article.. hence my jaundiced comment about Rafa shaking in his Nikes...The whole reasoning behind my posting it in the first place was because I was considering why Nole had to even bother to tell the world and his wife that given the opportunity he will have Rafa´s guts for garters... I think the world and his wife were all ready well prepared for that fact.I personally find your reasoning even more strange HM just because Im a Nadal fan... had nothing whatsoever to do with it My question remains the same why bother to comment at all Nole totally unnecessary you are the World No.1. no need. to take the media bait. ???? Now that is what I FIND STRANGE.

Danny_1982 wrote:Gaining a mental edge, or unsettling someone is very different to scaring them. You think Rafa was actually frightened in 2011, or Novak is now? No chance.

You'd prefer it if phychological battles weren't involved, and it was just forehands and backhands? That's a preference thing, so fair enough. But you do realise that Rafa does it more than anyone?

I think it's telling if a player has to resort to such tactics. Telling in that it shows they don't think their own forehands and backhands are enough to gain a win. I see that as a weakness. Djokovic possesses some pretty scary forehands and backhands and yet even he is admitting by resorting to such measures that they are not quite good enough to beat Rafa. Good for him! If he wasn't capable of going toe to toe with Nadal even if it means throwing everything he has at him the ATP events would be pretty boring.

What Rafa scares opponents by saying he will have to play his best to beat them? Or by sitting too long on the bench? or maybe by placing his water bottles in strategic positions. Ha ha! Rafa only scares his opponents with his play and his CV.

Please stop using 'scares'. They are not 12 years old. Scaring doesn't come into it.

So let me get this clear... You are saying that Rafa doesn't try to intimidate his opponents? None of his actions (listed by Julius earlier) are there to try and gain a mental advantage?

Do we watch the same sport?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24323544

To be fair this "story" based a Rafa quote is even more of a non-entity than the one in the OP! Shocker, World Number 2 almost certain to become number one soon not only wants to do so but has the audacity to target it! The cheek! The fact that he never even says that and thus must have been oozing arrogance to get it across to the writer makes it even more disgraceful by Rafa

Danny_1982 wrote:Please stop using 'scares'. They are not 12 years old. Scaring doesn't come into it.

So let me get this clear... You are saying that Rafa doesn't try to intimidate his opponents? None of his actions (listed by Julius earlier) are there to try and gain a mental advantage?

Do we watch the same sport?

Everyone watches the same sport, but some watch it wearing blinkers

Gamesmanship/intimidation has been probably part of tennis since the game began. Rafa's use of it is less than many players in the past, although more than many current players.
That's not a criticism, because he rarely does anything objectionable IMO, but I can't see how anyone can deny it's there and that he uses it to his advantage.

ChequeredJersey wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/24323544

To be fair this "story" based a Rafa quote is even more of a non-entity than the one in the OP! Shocker, World Number 2 almost certain to become number one soon not only wants to do so but has the audacity to target it! The cheek! The fact that he never even says that and thus must have been oozing arrogance to get it across to the writer makes it even more disgraceful by Rafa

Clearly Rafa has his pistols ready and is planning to get up early

Danny

I am older than 12 and I sometimes get scared...

I think Nadal does a lot of things that help him be strong mentally but they tend to be self directed. His placement of his water bottles, his routine and his tics all help give him the illusion of control. His focus is on himself. Many players IMO focus too much on their opponents. For example many of Rafa's opponents do things in an attempt to unsettle Rafa but this backfires and they just unsettle themselves.

Ask John McEnroe about gamesmanship ... he would laugh in your face .. you cannot be serious.

So Rafa's intimidating actions are for.... Himself! But his opponents do it because it's Rafa! Ok.

Danny_1982 wrote:So Rafa's intimidating actions are for.... Himself! But his opponents do it because it's Rafa! Ok.

How can Rafa be intimidating? He's practically waif-like

Actually I don't think Mac's behaviour was always gamesmanship - usually it wasn't meant to intimidate his opponent, it was venting his fury at officials or at himself.
Connors and Lendl on the other hand....

Also I distinctly said "Rafa's use of it is less than many players in the past..."

McEnroe knew exactly what he was doing.. he never showed any signs of such behaviour when he played Borg.

There are many kinds of "gamesmanship" ploys adopted by almost every player.. some are less obvious than others. Its almost an art form these days.

Mac wasn't doing it to specifically intimidate his opponent - he simply didn't care if his opponent was intimidated or not. I.e in most cases it wasn't about the opponent or about gamesmanship, it was about himself/officialdom.

When playing Borg it was about the opponent and he specifically didn't want to intimidate him - so kept himself in check.

Lendl, for example, was different - he would specifically target his opponent in the locker room and on court.

It is obviously a difference of opinion and I respect yours JM

However I dont subscribe to your thinking. McEnroe knew how to disrupt a match. He never intimidated Connors but he knew how to disrupt his rhythm It was about respect with Borg .. something he never had for Connors. He was very clever at what he did and how he did it.

is he supposed to say "Rafa is better than me, I know I have no chance of finishing the year Number 1"

^ That might be a good tactic...

Right, let's put this one to bed because this is desperate stuff. Here's the question Novak was asked and his answer (source: http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=92837)

Do you think you'll be able to hold off Nadal in the end‑of‑season rankings?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC:  We'll see about that.  As long as there is a chance, I will fight for that top spot.
But, again, with no doubt he has the best results this year.  This year he's been the best player in the world.  I have been having ups and downs throughout this year.  But still it was a quite good season for me, but it's not over.  I want to focus on this week's China Open because this is where I traditionally play well, and I would like to have another successful week.

It's pretty much the most innocuous answer one could conceive.

Put through the Haddie filter though, this translates as "telling the world and his wife that given the opportunity he will have Rafa´s guts for garters".

That is most definitely strange.

Yes HM put it to bed and Ill go too... talk about take things literally.

You still miss my point but why waste my time. Frankly I dont give a damn if Novak stays at No.1. for another year as Rafa plays his best tennis at No.2. anyway. Carry on Nole empty vessels make the most noise.

Perhaps if you explained what your point was then we would be less confused? You appear to be saying that Novak's comment was, in some way, mildly controversial as it led to the headline that Novak was sending a warning - even though his actual statement is as bland as bland can be.

Id back Rafa in a fist fight, that forehand looks like it could translate to a nasty left hook...

I think Novak would be a bit out of his depth in a fight with any of the top 10 -:only Gasquet might be a fair match up.

I thought this was to be a Sex Pistols reunion thread