The best Manager of all time?

In light of sir Alex Ferguson's 19th title win, is it fair to call him the best of all time. His only real competition in this era was probably Murinho, but he has nowhere near the longevity of Ferguson. It could also be argued that Dalglish provided stiff competition and it could be intersting in future seasons as long as both of them stick around.
But before Ferguson, what about Brian Clough or Don Revvie, or what about Alf Ramsey. Your thoughts on the Greatest of all time?

Jock Stein

Sir Govan trumps the lot imo. Even before Manchester United he done what now seems impossible at Aberdeen. He had the Old Firm who had good teams at the time scared of Aberdeen. Won a European trophy with Aberdeen as well. The job he has done at Manchester United will never be repeated at any club.

Ferguson has to be up there with the very best the UK has seen (said through gritted teeth!), there is no denying that, but I dont see Mourhino or Revie or even Clough as his main competitors. Bob Paisley, Jock Stein and Shankly are the other contenders in my book.

Personally, i will always remember Paisley fondly - not only hugely successful, but a gentleman AND a gentle man. Ferguson has more silverware in the diaplay cabinet, but his attitude does, at times, stink.

1) Clough
2) Fergie
3) Stein

Fergie is undoubtable one of the greatest ever. Like Kev previously mentioned he turned Aberdeen into a club that was challenging on all fronts in Scotland and beating the greats of Bayern Munich & Real Madrid. He also took what was at the time a poor Man United squad and turned it in one of the greatest clubs.

As for greatest ever I had Stein/Shankly as the top two.

Says a lot when the majority of managers being mentioned in this thread are Scottish. We are a breeding ground! Haha!

No votes for Walter Smith?

Davie wrote:No votes for Walter Smith?

No. It's not exactly hard to win the title with Rangers!

He's a Rangers legend, but nowhere near one of the best managers in football, wouldn't even make my top 25.

AberdeenSteve wrote:Fergie is undoubtable one of the greatest ever. Like Kev previously mentioned he turned Aberdeen into a club that was challenging on all fronts in Scotland and beating the greats of Bayern Munich & Real Madrid. He also took what was at the time a poor Man United squad and turned it in one of the greatest clubs.

As for greatest ever I had Stein/Shankly as the top two.

Says a lot when the majority of managers being mentioned in this thread are Scottish. We are a breeding ground! Haha!

Glasgow managers mate don't you be trying to muscle in on our success.

Brian Clough (with Peter Taylor).

Busby
Shankley
Clough/Taylor

think alot of people here not putting fergie in there list purely because they dont like him, he's hands down the best manager his record speaks for it self.

Yeah winning titles when you have one of the best teams in the world for most of your career what a surprise.... I appreciate he got St. Mirren into the top flight, and won it with Aberdeen, but he won most of his titles/cups with Man Utd once the money from the Premier League came in.

wrong derby blue, he took over in 86 and built a team from there. the premier league didnt start till 92. united are rich through success not successful through being rich like chelsea.

undoubtably it was a great time to win it, but blackburn, leeds, newcastle all chucked money at there teams and with the execption of the one season none of them could topple united.

All managers have to build a team, Madrid and Man City are proving names alone aren't enough to win. Really it's a cycle though you become successful, you become rich, helps make you more successful, helps make you richer, helps make you more successful, helps make you richer etc.

I know that obviously Ferguson had a lot to do with the success, and it shows if you're splashing the cash you need to make the right signings which is where a good manager will help, however I don't believe it's all down to Ferguson (I know I said Clough as long as he had Taylor).

To take teams like Aberdeen, Ipswich, Derby and Forest to European glory requires a special skill.
Robson and Ramsay do not seem to be on anyones list . Strange.

Ferguson is nearly up there with Busby and Shankley. I put Clough /Taylor ahead of him as they had success with two unfashionable teams.

Ferguson has just named barclay card manager of the season for an unperecedented ninth time.

MR. scotland27 wrote:Ferguson has just named barclay card manager of the season for an unperecedented ninth time.

think its fair this season as the team he's done it with isnt the best, although if holloway keeps blackpool up he must have been close. why the hell are they awarding it before the end of the season anyway!!

I think they do something with all of the manager of the month awards, but it is stupid that they would award before the end of the season.

I think Fergie is the best, he will say Jock Stein but thats the disciplin of the man, what he did at St Mirren and Aberdeen and the unrivaled success and constant ability to re-build a team gives him the edge

He done well at East Stirlingshire aswell even though he was only there 5 months.

Think its Sir Alex with Busby, Stein, Shankly, Paisley, Dalglish, Clough, Robson, Mourinho and Steve Clarke as best assisstant manager/first team coach

You can't look past Sir Alex. To acheive 12 titles is just unbelievable he'd be the greatest ever even without his success in Scotland, which again no one has come remotely close to in the modern era.

There simply isn't a case for anyone else

Although I think Sir Alex is the greatest manager of all time he just pips Jock Stein imo. But you could put forward a very strong case for Stein who Sir Alex himself says is the greatest manager of all time.

Can I throw David Moyes into the ring? A manager with little or no money who season on season manages to produce good quality footballing sides.

OK he has never won anything but what could he achieve with an average transfer pot.

Norfolk and Good wrote:Can I throw David Moyes into the ring? A manager with little or no money who season on season manages to produce good quality footballing sides.

OK he has never won anything but what could he achieve with an average transfer pot.

Moyes fair play to him has done well with little or no resources but to mention him in the same breath as Ferguson is laughable. I liken that to saying Ji Sung Park is up there with Messi.

There's countless examples of managers who are succesful on a shoestring but given more resources doesn't mean they'll use them wisely. Top level management is all about man-management judging players egos & knowing how to get the best out of contrasting personalities. This is why Ferguson is the best.

Sorry Brady12 for not toeing the 'party' line and not suggesting one of the usual suspects who appear to 'blow' millions of pounds on second rate players in pursuit of the Holy Grail.

Whilst I appreciate the efforts of SAF, surely keeping a potless team in the top half of the Premiership season after season deserves recognition.

In the main most managers who are shown the door, appear to use the excuse of lack of funds to see their plans come to fruition. Ultimately who ends up paying for their often repeated mistakes, us the fans.

Look how much money the 'Fat Waiter' blew away and achieved very little. Laid the blame for his failure at the feet of everybody else, while the problem lay much closer to home, namely himself.

I have no particular affinity with any Premiership side, I am able to watch matches as fan of football and to enjoy the game for what it is.

norfolk and good, surely people like dario gradi are even better than moyles then because he's done his job with even less money. everton are a club with great tradion and a good fan base. minimum expectations would be to stay in the league, moyles met expectations.

I have nothing but the upmost respect for the achievements of Dario Gradi particularly his ability to develope young talent.

He in fact trained my son when he was at Wimbledon where he was responsible for a youth set up that saw at least 8 local kids (Sutton and Merton) play at Premiership level.

Never understood why he has not been involved with the youth set up at the National level.

Norfolk and Good wrote:Sorry Brady12 for not toeing the 'party' line and not suggesting one of the usual suspects who appear to 'blow' millions of pounds on second rate players in pursuit of the Holy Grail.

Whilst I appreciate the efforts of SAF, surely keeping a potless team in the top half of the Premiership season after season deserves recognition.

In the main most managers who are shown the door, appear to use the excuse of lack of funds to see their plans come to fruition. Ultimately who ends up paying for their often repeated mistakes, us the fans.

Look how much money the 'Fat Waiter' blew away and achieved very little. Laid the blame for his failure at the feet of everybody else, while the problem lay much closer to home, namely himself.

I have no particular affinity with any Premiership side, I am able to watch matches as fan of football and to enjoy the game for what it is.

Of course Moyes deserves respect for the job he's done but he can't be consider the best ever until he's won something!! Surely even Stevie Wonder can see that.
You won't get me praising Benitez, he was a shocking manager in my opinion. He won the champions league by fluke on pens with Houlliers team & the fa cup on pens & I think that was it.
Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Benitez also won the La Liga twice, I think, with Valencia as well as an FA Cup with Valencia. I don't think you can call him a shocking manager, and I think the fact he won the Champions League with such Houiller's team is actually a positive for Benitez, as that is the same team that failed to win anything for 3 years.

I think Moyes is a decent manager, but Brady is right to suggest to put suggest he is the best manager ever is a bit extreme. Moyes has time to claim that crown, probably not with Everton, but his real test will be if he does leave Everton for a bigger side, is to have success with that side.

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

Biran Clough

Valeriy Vasylyovych Lobanovskyi of Dynamo Kiev. Peerless in his homeland and won the European Cup Winners Cup twice as well which is a pretty decent feat.

The best manager of all time? No but an outstanding manager with a CV to match.

Believe it or not good managers have and still do exist outside of Great Britain. It's amazing what you discover with the blinkers off.

FreekShow wrote:Valeriy Vasylyovych Lobanovskyi of Dynamo Kiev. Peerless in his homeland and won the European Cup Winners Cup twice as well which is a pretty decent feat.

The best manager of all time? No but an outstanding manager with a CV to match.

Believe it or not good managers have and still do exist outside of Great Britain. It's amazing what you discover with the blinkers off.

I don't think it's a matter of people thinking only great managers exist in Great Britain, more the fact that most people on the board aren't qualified to talk about managers outside of Great Britain, as they don't watch football outside of the UK.

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:

FreekShow wrote:Valeriy Vasylyovych Lobanovskyi of Dynamo Kiev. Peerless in his homeland and won the European Cup Winners Cup twice as well which is a pretty decent feat.

The best manager of all time? No but an outstanding manager with a CV to match.

Believe it or not good managers have and still do exist outside of Great Britain. It's amazing what you discover with the blinkers off.

I don't think it's a matter of people thinking only great managers exist in Great Britain, more the fact that most people on the board aren't qualified to talk about managers outside of Great Britain, as they don't watch football outside of the UK.

I take your point Leak. Just trying to mash it up a little!

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

When Clough took them there, was the 1972-1973 season and they lost 3-1 on aggregate to Juventus. He also took Nottingham Forest from 13th in the Second Division to top of the First Division, and won back to back Champions Leagues.

If we are including foreign managers then I would mention Gusztav Sebes, the Hungarian national team manager took them on the 31 game unbeaten run.

Derbyblue wrote:If we are including foreign managers then I would mention Gusztav Sebes, the Hungarian national team manager took them on the 31 game unbeaten run.

The best team to never win a world cup. watched a documentary on them not so long ago. Great shout.

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

When Clough took them there, was the 1972-1973 season and they lost 3-1 on aggregate to Juventus. He also took Nottingham Forest from 13th in the Second Division to top of the First Division, and won back to back Champions Leagues.

oh right I wasn't aware it was called the Champions League in 72-73 season

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

When Clough took them there, was the 1972-1973 season and they lost 3-1 on aggregate to Juventus. He also took Nottingham Forest from 13th in the Second Division to top of the First Division, and won back to back Champions Leagues.

oh right I wasn't aware it was called the Champions League in 72-73 season

Minor details Brady, minor details.

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

When Clough took them there, was the 1972-1973 season and they lost 3-1 on aggregate to Juventus. He also took Nottingham Forest from 13th in the Second Division to top of the First Division, and won back to back Champions Leagues.

oh right I wasn't aware it was called the Champions League in 72-73 season

It wasn't but that's not really important.

FreekShow wrote:Valeriy Vasylyovych Lobanovskyi of Dynamo Kiev. Peerless in his homeland and won the European Cup Winners Cup twice as well which is a pretty decent feat.

The best manager of all time? No but an outstanding manager with a CV to match.

Believe it or not good managers have and still do exist outside of Great Britain. It's amazing what you discover with the blinkers off.

I accept that but as I don't (& I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone) follow every league in Europe (or South America) I feel it's not possible to expand this argurment beyond the british isles

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

When Clough took them there, was the 1972-1973 season and they lost 3-1 on aggregate to Juventus. He also took Nottingham Forest from 13th in the Second Division to top of the First Division, and won back to back Champions Leagues.

oh right I wasn't aware it was called the Champions League in 72-73 season

It wasn't but that's not really important.

No probably not but I think taking Forest down is... Could you really see Fergie getting Utd relegated?

Brady12 wrote:

FreekShow wrote:Valeriy Vasylyovych Lobanovskyi of Dynamo Kiev. Peerless in his homeland and won the European Cup Winners Cup twice as well which is a pretty decent feat.

The best manager of all time? No but an outstanding manager with a CV to match.

Believe it or not good managers have and still do exist outside of Great Britain. It's amazing what you discover with the blinkers off.

I accept that but as I don't (& I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find anyone) follow every league in Europe (or South America) I feel it's not possible to expand this argurment beyond the british isles

It is possible because we already have! You don't have to follow every league in the world to be aware of non-Brits achievements.

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Brady12 wrote:Man Utd were in the relegation zone when Ferguson became manager & though he built slowly he has made them the global brand today. Floating at the right time, development of youth, succesful marketing & ultimately being successful on the pitch has given Utd the wealth to stay at the top. All of this has been overseen with Fergie as coach

Derby were in the relegation zone of the Second Division when he took over and slowly built them up to champions of the First Division, and took them to the semi-finals of the Champions League.

??? When did Derby make the Semi of the Champions League????

When Clough took them there, was the 1972-1973 season and they lost 3-1 on aggregate to Juventus. He also took Nottingham Forest from 13th in the Second Division to top of the First Division, and won back to back Champions Leagues.

oh right I wasn't aware it was called the Champions League in 72-73 season

It wasn't but that's not really important.

No probably not but I think taking Forest down is... Could you really see Fergie getting Utd relegated?

No he probably wouldn't but can you see Fergie winning two Champions Leagues or European Cups in a row?

Forest lost their best player at the start of the 92/93 season. The coffers were empty and the squad was paper thin. I doubt any manager would have stopped the rot that season.

Manchester Utd is a completely different animal to Nottingham Forest. Even when Fergie took over they were the biggest club in England, arguably the world and they always had a massive transfer budget.

Brian Clough's achievement in winning the top club prize two years in a row with a relatively medium sized club at best will never be repeated.

The modern Champions League is much superior to The old European Cup. 4 teams qualify from the major leagues in Europe. In Cloughs era it was just 1. I think if Fergie could play Malmo or Hamburg in the final as a pose to Barca he'd stand a better chance.

3 finals in 4 years isn't too shabby in the more difficult current climate. What did clough win in his last ten years as a manager? A Littlewoods cup or 2?

Fergie never sacked or relegated. Clough sacked by Leeds & relegated Forest (where he should of been sacked)

Fergie 48 trophies both North & South of the border how many for Clough? 10 tops? Fergie's won 10 more league titles than Clough it's laughable to compare the 2

FreekShow wrote:Forest lost their best player at the start of the 92/93 season. The coffers were empty and the squad was paper thin. I doubt any manager would have stopped the rot that season.

Manchester Utd is a completely different animal to Nottingham Forest. Even when Fergie took over they were the biggest club in England, arguably the world and they always had a massive transfer budget.

Brian Clough's achievement in winning the top club prize two years in a row with a relatively medium sized club at best will never be repeated.

Liverpool were the biggest team in England at the time. United hadn't won the league for 20 years you clown