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The Anyone but England Thread

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GloriousEmpire
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lostinwales
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ME-109
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Notch
Portnoy's Complaint
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Post by The Fourth Lion Sun 03 Nov 2013, 1:14 pm

In order to allow those who have a grudge against England the opportunity to have their say in a dedicated sub-forum, I'm putting this thread here.

Away you go, lads. Get it all out of your systems.
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Post by The Fourth Lion Sun 03 Nov 2013, 1:22 pm

By the way.... I'm not trying to stir up trouble here.  This isn't intended maliciously, but as I said on the RWC 2003 commemorations thread, there is a clear antipathy towards England in some quarters and it would be better if they had somewhere appropriate to vent rather than spoiling other discussions, which was clearly happening in the aforesaid thread.

From my point of view, I don't mind if those with a grudge against England - predominantly the Welsh and Scots, and to a lesser degree,  Aussie and Kiwi pom haters - have their say.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it's better to get it out in the open rather than let it fester.

But to be truthful, when these countries play out of their skins against England, or make it clear that they would rather beat us than anyone else, then I take it as a compliment.  Nobody puts such intense emotion into the way they behave unless they really care about the people they are talking about.  Kinda makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Actually.... I quite like the Welsh and Scots and always support them when they're playing against SH teams.  For me, the Irish are good lads who I'm always happy to share a pint and banter with.  Even trips to Rome and Paris have been highly enjoyable.  Singing Swing Low Sweet Chariot in a Rome Trattoria was met with smiles and back slapping.

So I can't quite understand where this antipathy comes from, but I'm sure they have their reasons.  Come on, then.  Share.  You'll feel better for it.
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Post by doctor_grey Sun 03 Nov 2013, 1:26 pm

Mate, there will always be small-minded bitter people everywhere who don't like someone because of what they are or where they come from. Here in 606v2 is the same.

I don't include GE in this because I enjoy his comments. Have a bit o fun.

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Post by The Fourth Lion Sun 03 Nov 2013, 1:50 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Mate, there will always be small-minded bitter people everywhere who don't like someone because of what they are or where they come from.  Here in 606v2 is the same.  

I don't include GE in this because I enjoy his comments.  Have a bit o fun.
I think it would be good if this thread did develop into a light hearted to-and-fro. Come on, GE.... show us some wit..!!
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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:24 pm

I love it when the ABEs get into 4th gear like yesterday.
Sadly, 4thLion, you'll get no more than 50% of the way to wit from GE even if he's got the foot to the metal.
But I generally agree with the Doc, he is amusing in his comments - even if they are not very funny. Best to clap with one hand though really.

Should I support Wales next week?
A quick fag-packet reckoning shows that if they win by 15+ and England scrape home by a point against the Argentines, England go to 2nd in the rankings.

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Post by Notch Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:30 pm

Ah, I'm pretty indifferent to English results to be honest. I don't support them, but I don't go out of my way not to support them either. It's the same way I feel about Wales, France, South Africa, Australia etc. I watch their games and I'm a neutral in my heart.

But don't paint me as not being an Anyone But England- I love to see their club sides crash and burn in Europe. Not so much the likes of Bath or Gloucester or Exeter- I would actually cheer for Exeter Chiefs against almost any opponent but an Irish province- but Saints, Saracens, Tigers- oh yes, I enjoy their pain very much! That said, the team I love to hate above all others are Toulon Smile

England came to play in Ireland during the Troubles when Wales and Scotland wouldn't. Any Irish rugby fan should bear that in mind before they go on ill-informed anyone but England rants. Unless they're talking about the PRL clubs, then it's open season as far as I'm concerned thumbsup 
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Post by stub Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:30 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:I love it when the ABEs get into 4th gear like yesterday.
Sadly, 4thLion, you'll get no more than 50% of the way to wit from GE even if he's got the foot to the metal.
But I generally agree with the Doc, he is amusing in his comments - even if they are not very funny. Best to clap with one hand though really.

Should I support Wales next week?
A quick fag-packet reckoning shows that if they win by 15+ and England scrape home by a point against the Argentines, England go to 2nd in the rankings.
Well -I was going to be supporting Wales anyway but this just adds extra fuel to the fire! Come on Wales!! Wales 

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Post by stub Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:33 pm

Notch wrote:Ah, I'm pretty indifferent to English results to be honest. I don't support them, but I don't go out of my way not to support them either. It's the same way I feel about Wales, France, South Africa, Australia etc. I watch their games and I'm a neutral in my heart.

But don't paint me as not being an Anyone But England- I love to see their club sides crash and burn in Europe. Not so much the likes of Bath or Gloucester or Exeter- I would actually cheer for Exeter Chiefs against almost any opponent but an Irish province- but Saints, Saracens, Tigers- oh yes, I enjoy their pain very much! That said, the team I love to hate above all others are Toulon Smile

England came to play in Ireland during the Troubles when Wales and Scotland wouldn't. Any Irish rugby fan should bear that in mind before they go on ill-informed anyone but England rants. Unless they're talking about the PRL clubs, then it's open season as far as I'm concerned thumbsup 
That's an interesting insight Notch! I understand why the big PRL clubs aren't your cup of tea that the moment as well!

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Post by englandglory4ever Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:34 pm

Where's GE? Has he dozed off again? He usually does and then wakes up and comments about games as if he actually watched them.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:43 pm

Notch wrote: That said, the team I love to hate above all others are Toulon 
Notch, bro, why you no lik my Saints?broken 

I usually support most English clubs, which is why I like Toulon.........

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Post by Notch Sun 03 Nov 2013, 2:50 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Notch wrote: That said, the team I love to hate above all others are Toulon 
Notch, bro, why you no lik my Saints?broken 

I usually support most English clubs, which is why I like Toulon.........
I've got a love/hate relationship with Saints, from the times we've played them recently in the Heineken Cup. I love their friendly, knowledgeable and fair-minded fans and I hate their thuggish mentality on the field. There's a lot to like about them but the Callum
Clark incident and various contributions from Messrs Lawes, Hartley et al. have not endeared them to me. Just a few too many incidents over the years to see them as anything other than objectionable. That said, have had great craic with Saints fans at Heineken Cup games at Ravenhill and MK:Stadium

Hope that doesn't affect the thing you and me got going babe heart
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Post by ME-109 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 3:02 pm

If England were any good i am sure i would dislike them somewhat, they kind off pop their heads up for a game or two and then fall apart, which is always fun to watch.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 3:42 pm

ME-109 wrote:If England were any good  i am sure i would dislike them somewhat, they kind off pop their heads up for a game or two and then fall apart, which is always fun to watch.
No lad, you've confused England with Wales there.

Wales are the team that pop up for a game or two (the 30-3 v England, for instance), and then fall apart losing to the likes of Japan.

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Post by lostinwales Sun 03 Nov 2013, 3:45 pm

Thing is GE wouldnt be seen dead here, because, you know, he doesnt WUM he just speaks FACTS.

He is so one note I dont find him funny at all. Dave on the other hand....

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Post by The Saint Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:09 pm

Wonder how this thread turned into peeps obsessing over Wales with their really dull comments again... The thread title clearly says England, who I supported against Aus and will be rooting for against the Puma's and All Blacks. So, no Anglo-hater here, though there was a lot of bitterness shown towards them during and after the game against the Wallabies.


Last edited by The Saint on Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TJ Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:12 pm

What you see as
small-minded bitter people
is often people reacting to the unpleasant arrogance and condescending nature of many england fans - see the Greatest game thread for an obvious example.

Until you actually bother to listen when folk like I try to explain where this comes from and modify your behaviour it will continue



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Post by TJ Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:19 pm

the fourth lion wrote:So I can't quite understand where this antipathy comes from,
I try to tell you and you don't want to hear. it comes from comments such as the "greatest game" thread. It comes from the arrogance shown by many england fans and players. comments like " we are too good for the 6N" from a few years ago. Things like referring to the WC win in 2003 as the greatest game ever by the greatest team and the greatest player when its clear its none of these things.

When you show the humility of the irish then you might be as loved as them. While you show the arrogance and condescension that you do then you will be disliked for it. Everyone wants to take down a peg or two anyone who is arrogant. While you write off anyone who dislikes your arrogance as bitter rather than troubling to try to understand you reinforce the stereotype.

Try to listen rather than write off as bitterness. i am not bitter. i am tired of preening arrogance

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:42 pm

TJ wrote:What you see as
small-minded bitter people
is often people reacting to the unpleasant arrogance and condescending nature of many england fans - see the Greatest game thread for an obvious example.

Until you actually bother to listen when folk like I try to explain where this comes from and modify your behaviour it will continue

If you can't see the ironic humour there or even the FACT it was only you who got wound up there..................

case in point

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:49 pm

Notch wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
Notch wrote: That said, the team I love to hate above all others are Toulon 
Notch, bro, why you no lik my Saints?broken 

I usually support most English clubs, which is why I like Toulon.........
I've got a love/hate relationship with Saints, from the times we've played them recently in the Heineken Cup. I love their friendly, knowledgeable and fair-minded fans and I hate their thuggish mentality on the field. There's a lot to like about them but the Callum
Clark incident and various contributions from Messrs Lawes, Hartley et al. have not endeared them to me. Just a few too many incidents over the years to see them as anything other than objectionable. That said, have had great craic with Saints fans at Heineken Cup games at Ravenhill and MK:Stadium

Hope that doesn't affect the thing you and me got going babe heart
Well, um, err, I just don't know.
Maybe we should just remain friends.  You might hurt me......boxing

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Post by hugehandoff Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:51 pm

Doc.....I think you need to prescribe a couple of leeches...that should do the trick;) 

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Post by TJ Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:52 pm

I ain't wound up. I am trying to explain something to you but you don't want to hear the explanation.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:54 pm

TJ wrote:...Things like referring to the WC win in 2003 as the greatest game ever by the greatest team and the greatest player when its clear its none of these things....
I knew it was "none of these things", which is why I knew it was a joke. If you couldn't see that, then you might need to change the perspective you bring to comments made by English supporters here.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm

TJ, all you did on the match thread was pick up on mistakes and perceived mistakes against the Aussies, ignoring those against England (Wood being held in the ruck for the Aus try, not really a foul but technically a foul just like the obstruction) and claim the better team lost. Sometimes perception can be wrong?

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Post by TJ Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:14 pm

Really 7 1/2 - or does that thought suit your narrative that I hate england and am bitter and biased?  Or is the reality that I am neutral on England / Aus and have a view thats different to yours?

TJ wrote:

however only one stat goes in the history books

20 / 13


following someone claiming England were allowed to get away with infringing at the ruck continually
Tj wrote:Ruck was fine to me - maybe a bit more relaxed than some but consistent reffing and nothing blatant allowed to go on
TJ wrote:.........No way - England have some fine 3/4s..........
In response to GE claiming the ref was biased and Brown was useless
TJ wrote:GE - give it a break.  the refs made mistakes and they favoured England. thats all.

Brown was well more than ordinary for England - he tried high risk plays a few times and made a bunch of yards.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:27 pm


Calling England mince, claiming that Aus were the better side, saying Aus were robbed, saying the decisions were ridiculous.

It all reads as someone wanting England to be beaten and not balanced. Maybe once you started to get over it your comments became more balanced. But as is implied by some of your other posts you probably think all the fans are arrogant and need to be taken down a peg; unfortunately in taking that view I think it clouds your judgement slightly.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:32 pm

I'm not saying we walked it but I think we just about deserved to win and shaded possession and most other stats. Close game and I just can't agree with anyone saying Aus were robbed. Again I may be taking your comments to much to heart.

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Post by TJ Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:33 pm

It only reads that way because of your bias.  As shown above your claim is nonsense.  There is a streak of arrogance in many England fans and you show it in your attacks on me.  For example I said Aus will feel they were robbed - not that they were.  A subtle difference but important.

Crossed posts. Yes you do take it too much to heart. No worries squire - I do know passions run high and its hard to be dispassionate what I ask is that people try to understand the "anyone but england" stance and I have tried to explain why this happens

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:41 pm

'what nonsense - nearly as bad as the welsh. aus were robbed by poor decisions. No question at all. England were second best until they had the stuffing knocked out of them by a series of bad decisions cost them 14 pts. England looked poor. Struggled to beat a poor Aus side even with the refs mistakes going their way'

You did say it actually but lets let by gones be by gones and start afresh? I'm not wanting to appear arrogant and I doubt you were being too 1 eyed I'm being too sensitive.

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Post by TJ Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:44 pm

I doubt you were being too 1 eyed I'm being too sensitive.
the truth is usually in the middle Smile

You don't appear arrogant.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:45 pm

Hug 

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Post by Breadvan Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:59 pm

Stoopid England. Damn those handsome devils!
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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun 03 Nov 2013, 7:40 pm

I don't think anyone begrudges England the odd win that they pick up.

I was interested to read in The Rugby Paper today even Jeremy Guscott admitting that the only way Farrell would score a try was for a set of blocking forwards to execute an NFL style obstruction to open a gap for him to plod through, so nice for him to have had that experience!

I didn't realise it was the same match official who sanctioned Brown's match altering heroics from beyond the touch line who had also rubber stamped Jonny Wilkinsons try against Scotland from a similarly in touch location...the guy must be in line for an OBE at least by now, no?

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Post by ME-109 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 8:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:If England were any good  i am sure i would dislike them somewhat, they kind off pop their heads up for a game or two and then fall apart, which is always fun to watch.
No lad, you've confused England with Wales there.

Wales are the team that pop up for a game or two (the 30-3 v England, for instance), and then fall apart losing to the likes of Japan.
Jeez last time i looked Wales were 6N champions...

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Post by Exiledinborders Sun 03 Nov 2013, 9:46 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Where's GE? Has he dozed off again? He usually does and then wakes up and comments about games as if he actually watched them.
His mummy puts him to bed fairly early.

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Post by Exiledinborders Sun 03 Nov 2013, 9:50 pm


ME-109 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:If England were any good  i am sure i would dislike them somewhat, they kind off pop their heads up for a game or two and then fall apart, which is always fun to watch.
No lad, you've confused England with Wales there.

Wales are the team that pop up for a game or two (the 30-3 v England, for instance), and then fall apart losing to the likes of Japan.
Jeez last time i looked Wales were 6N champions...
The last time I looked Wales were ranked sixth and England third. Why because Wales cannot perform against southern hemisphere teams (or Japan!)


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Post by lostinwales Sun 03 Nov 2013, 9:50 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:If England were any good  i am sure i would dislike them somewhat, they kind off pop their heads up for a game or two and then fall apart, which is always fun to watch.
No lad, you've confused England with Wales there.

Wales are the team that pop up for a game or two (the 30-3 v England, for instance), and then fall apart losing to the likes of Japan.
Jeez last time i looked Wales were 6N champions...
Yep they have a terrific record in Europe with a combination of scrappy wins and the odd inspired performance (we should know...) They weren't too hot before and their reserves weren't too hot after

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 9:52 pm

ME-109 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:If England were any good  i am sure i would dislike them somewhat, they kind off pop their heads up for a game or two and then fall apart, which is always fun to watch.
No lad, you've confused England with Wales there.

Wales are the team that pop up for a game or two (the 30-3 v England, for instance), and then fall apart losing to the likes of Japan.
Jeez last time i looked Wales were 6N champions...
Who lost 8 (?) games on the spin before that?

One brilliant performance against England aside, Wales have done little of note in the last year.
Very similar to England, who have had one brilliant performance against New Zealand, and done little else of note.

Although England have been more consistent, hence why they're deservedly higher in the rankings.

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Post by ME-109 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 10:11 pm

Loathe though i am as an Irishman to defend my welsh cousins the last time i checked they have won the last two six nations and got to a semi final in the world cup. In terms of actual competition they seem to be a lot more consistent wouldn't you say? Unlike the odd win against a rather ill new Zealand and an extremely poor AUS. When England have actually played games that have mattered then the results have been rather hilarious..

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 10:15 pm

ME-109 wrote:Loathe though i am as an Irishman to defend my welsh cousins the last time i checked they have won the last two six nations and got to a semi final in the world cup. In terms of actual competition they seem to be a lot more consistent wouldn't you say? Unlike the odd win against a rather ill new Zealand and an extremely poor AUS. When England have actually played games that have mattered then the results have been rather hilarious..
Not as hilarious as your excuses though.

Have Ireland ever beaten New Zealand, ill or not? Laugh

8 wins out of the last 9 - I guess only one game was important though?

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Post by ME-109 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 10:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:
ME-109 wrote:Loathe though i am as an Irishman to defend my welsh cousins the last time i checked they have won the last two six nations and got to a semi final in the world cup. In terms of actual competition they seem to be a lot more consistent wouldn't you say? Unlike the odd win against a rather ill new Zealand and an extremely poor AUS. When England have actually played games that have mattered then the results have been rather hilarious..
Not as hilarious as your excuses though.

Have Ireland ever beaten New Zealand, ill or not? Laugh

8 wins out of the last 9 - I guess only one game was important though?
Ah yes the Irish question, always brought up in different guises by facetious ignorant Englishmen through the centuries...well again in relation to the welsh they have performed when it mattered most.

As for Ireland and the ABs well you are correct but a couple of things to consider the English record isn't something to write home about ( you should probably look across La Manche for that), Ireland wasn't in the discussion and when the Irish question comes up we always change it because its fun, as a Munster supporter we have a better record against the ABs than any of the NH teams... Very Happy 

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Post by Duty281 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 11:52 pm

Meh. Seems a bit rich for an Irish fan to question any victory over New Zealand.

I'm happy where England are right now in regards to 2015 - losing to Wales could very well very be the best thing for Stuart Lancaster's England team. Just like all those grand slam defeats kept England hungry in the run-up to 2003...

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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon 04 Nov 2013, 12:10 am

England bring it on themselves with their arrogance.

One referee sponsored victory over a team taken apart by the welsh lions (and missing a raft of crucial players) and suddenly England are set to win the RWC.

I will state now that I believe England won't get out of their group in 2015 after losing to Wales and Australia.

Or perhaps do a France and get through after Wales are upset in the expected welsh pool game implosion.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 04 Nov 2013, 12:37 am

Hay, mate.  
Did anyone here really say they think England are now set to with the ruddy RWC?  With that game plan?  Or that back line?  
If anyone really said that, I'd be surprised.
Wouldn't be arrogance. Could well be mental impairment or just winding up a few folks with thinner skins.

Doesn't mean we can't be happy we won a sloppy match we might well have lost in prior years.

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Post by RugbyFan182 Mon 04 Nov 2013, 12:54 am

I think there could be a bit of an embarrassment for England in the RWC 2015 NZ and Wales to go through. Thought Aussies were bad again if England didn't put them away there would be questions, a lot of them.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 04 Nov 2013, 1:33 am

RugbyFan182 wrote:I think there could be a bit of an embarrassment for England in the RWC 2015 NZ and Wales to go through. Thought Aussies were bad again if England didn't put them away there would be questions, a lot of them.
That would be a disaster for England. 
Its our RWC, we really need to make a good show of it. Same as any hosting nation would.

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Post by RugbyFan182 Mon 04 Nov 2013, 6:46 am

Agree, it's too far away to say for certain. But, on evidence on the last England vs Wales game, I would worry for England. But, if they meh make it out of there group they will go far.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 04 Nov 2013, 7:05 am

RugbyFan, I agree, that has a ring of truth about it.  Beating Oz and Wales to get out of their group could propel England to a nice run in the knock-out stages (hopefully a real good run, but not holding my breath).

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Post by GloriousEmpire Mon 04 Nov 2013, 7:20 am

RugbyFan182 wrote:Agree, it's too far away to say for certain. But, on evidence on the last England vs Wales game, I would worry for England. But, if they meh make it out of there group they will go far.  
Limp out if the group, battered and spent and then cut mowed down by a first qualifier is more likely.

This thread is a perfect example. In the space of two posts England are already on a run of form in the RWC semi final apparently...the sheet arrogance is incalculable.

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Post by tigerleghorn Mon 04 Nov 2013, 7:25 am

 
GloriousEmpire wrote:
RugbyFan182 wrote:Agree, it's too far away to say for certain. But, on evidence on the last England vs Wales game, I would worry for England. But, if they meh make it out of there group they will go far.  
Limp out if the group, battered and spent and then cut mowed down by a first qualifier is more likely.

This thread is a perfect example. In the space of two posts England are already on a run of form in the RWC semi final apparently...the sheet arrogance is incalculable.
Broken Record The Anyone but England Thread 1347041234 

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Post by Breadvan Mon 04 Nov 2013, 7:31 am

Honestly ghost Laugh RWC is in 2015. Might as well pick the next Lions tour squad too, its so far away. I agree you talk sheet tho...
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