Wales vs South Africa match buildup.

First topic message reminder :

OK boys, this weekend Wales and South Africa will both attempt to begin their Autumn Internationals with a win.

Both teams for different reasons.

Wales will want to build on their Six Nations form of the last two years, they will want to confirm to themselves that the British and Irish Lions tour was won because of their players, and they will want to progress from being Northern Hemisphere kings, to a team that has the ability to beat South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

In my view, and possibly in the view of their supporters the time is now, it has been a while since Wales has been so dominant in Europe, the only thing missing before they can call themselves world beaters is to take the next step.

How much of it is mental, how much of it is due to the fact that they struggle to put 80 minute performances together I cannot be certain of, but what I do know is they have the ability, sadly it seems Cuthbert and Roberts will not be part of what I deem as the most talented and dangerous backline in Europe. For two reasons I might add, it is the most settled back line in Europe, and also very experienced.

Since the World Cup in 2011, Wales have won 9 of their 10 Six Nations matches, undoubtedly a very good record, however their problem was the seven match losing streak in between the two Six Nations.

South Africa on the other hand, has a new coach, been there for near two full seasons and he has made a difference.

Still not yet consistent, the concern is always how will Meyer ensure that the springboks perform on a consistent basis. In the past 18 months under Heyneke Meyer the boks had their fair share of poor games.

Last year out of the twelve test matches played the springboks managed to win 7 tests, drew 2 and lost three.

Although the three tests they lost were against New Zealand (twice) and Australia, there were a number of other performances that were not up to par. England in the third test at home, Argentina in Mendoza and New Zealand at home, those were poor performances by South Africa.

Although they went through the Autumn internationals unbeaten the were less than convincing.

I suppose the positive out of the performances were even when they played poorly, they managed to be on the right side of the scoreboard most of the time.

Although South Africa has shown improvement this year, the consistency is still under question.

The one aspect of their game that has improved immeasurably is their positive approach to attacking play, looking at the number of tries scored this year in comparison to last year it makes for astounding reading, in 2012 during 12 matches South Africa managed only 23 tries, conceding 16. This year in 9 tests they have managed 39 tries, conceding 18 tries.

Only New Zealand have managed to score regular tries against SA, totalling 15 tries in the last two years, the rest of their opponents only managed 19 tries in 17 matches.

Wales during 2012 managed to score 20 tries in conceding 17 in their 13 matches. During 2013 in their seven tests to date, they managed 11 tries, conceding 7.

If South Africa continues with their positive approach  to attacking plays I believe Wales will be hard pressed, their defence will have to be up to par, there is no doubt Wales will have a positive approach to the game, so from that perspective it should be an entertaining match.

There are some questions over the selections Meyer will make, will he bring Jaque Fourie, JP Pietersen and Bakkies Botha in for the first tour match, which would add significantly to the experience of the team, or will he give debutant Pieter Steph du Toit his first cap?

Of course Willie le Roux and JJ Engelbrecht may yet be inexperienced, but in my view it would be unfair to summarily dismiss them in favour of the old hands.

Wales have a few selection issues as well, who will replace Cuthbert and Roberts, and the ultimate question, will Phillips’ disciplinary record affect his chances for selection?

I still wonder who is the best fly half in Wales.

Come what may, this match should be a tough encounter, will SA prove they have made the step up and show consistency, or will Wales make the next leap towards world domination?

Springbok team for Wales.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff is:

15. Pat Lambie 29 caps 55 points
14. JP Pietersen 48 caps 70 points
13. Jaque Fourie 69 caps 160 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 93 caps 120 points
11. Bryan Habana 92 caps 265 points
10. Morné Steyn 51 caps 618 points
9. Fourie du Preez 65 caps 70 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 13 caps 5 points
7. Willem Alberts 27 caps 30 points
6. Francois Louw 25 caps 25 points
5. Flip van der Merwe 31 caps 5 points
4. Eben Etzebeth 20 caps 0 points
3. Frans Malberhe 0 caps 0 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (v-captain) 54 caps 40 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 50 caps 10 points
Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 30 caps 25 points
17. Gurthrö Steenkamp 46 caps 30 points
18. Coenie Oosthuizen 11 caps 5 points
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit 0 caps 0 points
20. Siya Kolisi 8 caps 0 points
21. Ruan Pienaar 71 caps 130 points
22. JJ Engelbrecht 10 caps 20 points
23. Willie le Roux 9 caps 15 points

Wales team for South Africa
Wales

15 Leigh Halfpenny,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Eli Walker,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Mike Phillips,
8 Toby Faletau,
7 Sam Warburton (captain),
6 Dan Lydiate,
5 Alun Wyn Jones,
4 Bradley Davies,
3 Adam Jones,
2 Richard Hibbard,
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Justin Tipuric, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Liam Williams

fa0019 wrote:They will surely play first team Wales, experimental Scotland, first team France.

Vs Scotland is the game that promises to be very exciting on paper at least . If Meyer sticks to his word , we should have a very interesting bokline . Here's one i would gladly love to see ,

10. Lambie /Goosen
11. JPP
12. JDV ( captain always starts , to be swapped for Serfontein at halftime )
13. JJ Engelbrecht
14 .WLR
15. Gio Aplon / Lambie because i forgot about the golden Goose

While its highly unlikely that Baas Heyneke will play more than two lightweights in his team it would be exciting to watch . The pace alone would be incredible. Basically playing four very skillful wingers in that team

Looks good if Meyers going to mix things up. This year is the first real sign of several things- opening the game up, using matches to build depth, genuinely looking to the future rather than just talking about it. Getting a bit to similar to the AB's way of thinking for me...hmmm...

Just had a quick look at the last sort of 4/5 results against South Africa and how Wales didn't win any is beyond me. Certainly allot of it was their own doing. If only they had the composure to do the basics in those games and those vs the Aussies of years gone by. Time to do it now with this incredibly talented young side.

What idiot would use the All Blacks as a blueprint for success???

This place is becoming a joke.

Bullsbok wrote:

fa0019 wrote:They will surely play first team Wales, experimental Scotland, first team France.

Vs Scotland is the game that promises to be very exciting on paper at least . If Meyer sticks to his word , we should have a very interesting bokline . Here's one i would gladly love to see ,

10. Lambie /Goosen
11. JPP
12. JDV ( captain always starts , to be swapped for Serfontein at halftime )
13. JJ Engelbrecht  
14 .WLR
15. Gio Aplon / Lambie because i forgot about the golden  Goose

While its highly unlikely that Baas Heyneke will play more than two lightweights in his team it would be exciting to watch . The pace alone would be incredible. Basically playing four very skillful wingers in that team

I wonder, however, whether the conditions in Scotland will preclude Meyer from choosing some of the running options. What's the use of Aplon etc if is pouring with rain/snow and the turf is swamp-like?

Anyways, enough about the Scotland match:
Wales vs SA: man I'm excited: both teams seem to be on the up, riding a crest of momentum as it were.... I hope it's a cracker of a match - and I hope it's not ruined by officiating...

munkian wrote:So Tips should be starting above Warbs then ?  

Warbs has been in good form himself and we all know he will start.

Wales always seem to struggle defensively and offensively with Roberts missing. And Cuthberts try scoring will be missed. Halfpenny's been a bit out of from at the Blues. Wales always seem to start their campaigns poorly.

But I am still hopefully that we will beat the Boks for the second time ever ( I was lucky enough to be at our only ever previous victory at a half finished Millenium Stadium - my mum booked a holiday so my Dad couldn't go to the match and gave me his ticket - right by where mark taylor went over for his try )

Whatever the outcome, I think it will be one of the matches of the autumn series ( unlike the dire stodge served up at Twickers last Saturday)

Allan Rolland is the ref according to the Telegraph  
I FU**ing give up, they guy is a complete tool seen him ruin many a game of rugby,not just Welsh ones.

I have a serious problem with an ex Leinster man and ex Irish International as a ref!self importance comes far to naturally just from that.

The dossier is already pre-written on this game so.  An Irishman is going to ruin a nice Welsh day out again.

What a hateful breed of man is a Leinster man who's been a past Irish International.  

And what a place this 606 is.  So much entertainment for free!!!

Best out come would be Bakkies spear tackles Rolland by accident.
If it isn't the way he refs that annoys me it 's his hair! crop it short your going bald mate it happens to many of us.

Rolland has been shocking since the tail-end of last season. Too bad he's in charge of this one because I don't think he'll have a clue what is going on in the scrums or breakdowns. A potentially great match that will probably be killed by Rolland.

Oh Deluded... there are enough close cropped balding men walking the world without wishing another one on us.

I say grow the sides and comb it over like real men once did.
A comb-over - the mark - of a man!

I've said elsewhere, but I'd start with - Jenkins, Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Davies, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, Phillips, Priestland, L.Williams, S.Williams, J.Davies, North, Halfpenny. I think they'd target Priest, so Warbs and Phillips will be babysitting.

Who is the better defender out of Biggard and Priestland do people feel?

*Biggar

Is that correct?

Alain Rolland is the referee for this match?

Yes he is Biltong, some other reffing appointments are:

Ireland/Samoa....Walsh.
France/NZ....Peyper
Italy/Australia....Glenn jackson.
England/NZ.... Craig Joubert.
Ireland/Australia.... Chris Pollock.
Scotland/SA....Jerome Garces.
Wales/Tonga.... Mike Fraser.
Scotland/Australia....Peyper
France/SA....Wayne Barnes.
Wales/Australia.... Barnes.

Thanks, Laurie.

Wound up like a spring already waiting for this game. I agree that the Boks are improving and are at their strongest since 2009 but Wales have continued to improve ... win the Grand Slam and then it all goes jubblies up! Win the 6N and then go on to represent the Lions as the strongest country there in terms of numbers and with a good show in the last test.

The last time we played each other (regardless of no real good evidence re the missed penalty) Wales lost the game by a point. I believe that Welsh lads have the ability and the mental strength to overcome the Boks. Anything other than a win won't do really, I am long past the 'Wales did themselves proud in defeat', we need to start beating the SH teams like the other 6 Nations are doing.

I have to sit on the fence for me this is far to close to call, I know it will be a hell of a game and it shall be enjoyed despite watching it with a guy called Pritorius:shock: 

Yes tend to agree they have a good chance. They're overdue for a SH win and other than that they'd be strong contenders for this match. Match of the weekend I'd say.

Definitely the heavyweight match of the weekend. SA have been involved in some high scoring matches. Hope Meyer continues to look to continue with attacking with ball in hand. Wales for all their set piece structure do like to throw the ball about especially on the counter attack so my hope is that this game is like the 3rd Lions test but with the score line of the first or second tests. The big concern is the state of the pitch which often is not conducive to running rugby. Hope this lives up to expectations like Ellis Park. Have a feeling that this depends on the tactics employed by SA. Going to be some brutal forward exchanges no doubt but conditions might dictate how much running is made.

The pitch has been used for the League World Cup and must be a concern, unless they change the surface for the AI's which they have the ability to do.

Well lets hope the pitch holds up, I have seen some poor pitches there before, scrumming suffers as much as ball carrying if that is the case.

I think Meyer will continue the positive approach, albeit with the lessons learnt from Ellispark, that is really all I ask of him.

It seems that he won't make too many changes for this game, he said he wants continuity against Wales and will experiment a bit more against Scotland.

Having said that, I have a feeling he will definitely make space for Bakkies Botha, Flip v d Merwe has been more a stop gap than a first choice this season with Pieter Steph du Toit getting injured, but I doubt Meyer will want a debutant against Wales, perhaps Pieter Steph du Toit will get a few minutes in the last quarter just to wet his appetite for international rugby.

I would also think either Jaque Fourie of JP into the back line.

I remember Spain playing Lithuania and they described the pitch as a potato field designed to stop tiki-taka passing football.

If the MS is going to hire out the stadium to other events they should factor in resurfacing the pitch with extra revenue. The MS is a magnificent stadium and I feel sorry for the paying public who should be treated to not only great facilities but also great viewing made possible by a great pitch to match the surroundings. Perhaps the time has come to fine top tier countries for sub standard pitches.

Maybe nothing is done because Wales are seen to be shooting themselves in the foot in terms of their scrum. Imagine if Oz had cut up turf. The rest of the rugby world would be up in arms like India burning their pitches in cricket. I'm not sure if there are minimal standards in rugby that have to be met but it just seems a shame that has the advantage of a closing roof often has poor pitches. I wonder if that explains to any extent Wales' record against the SH teams?

How do you feel BB with Botha back in the team. It's a bit like NZ taking back Bead Thorn if he were still playing in Leinster. I've got nothing but respect for Botha as a player but I don't like the message it sends to Bok hopefuls and is a kick in the guts for the other locks playing in SA. I know Habana is in the same boat and you want your best side but in Botha's case, I think he's past his prime and SA are losing an opportunity to develop a locking partner for Etzebeth.

Kia I have mixed feelings about the overseas players, in particular those that are getting on in age, if Meyer has brought Bakkies in as a temporary senior to provide guidance to Etzebeth and du Toit, then I am all for it, I think they can learn a lot from him, but if he is there to become a regular feature, then I am not too happy about it.

i really wish we had Roberts and cuth Saturday . Scott Williams coming along well tho and had a good season so far . liam done well against New Zealand so hopefully he ll have a good game . with Wales you just dont know which team will turn up , the one who played England or the one Argentina turned over easily .

Bluedragon wrote:Wales always seem to struggle defensively and offensively with Roberts missing. And Cuthberts try scoring will be missed. Halfpenny's been a bit out of from at the Blues. Wales always seem to start their campaigns poorly.

But I am still hopefully that we will beat the Boks for the second time ever ( I was lucky enough to be at our only ever previous victory at a half finished Millenium Stadium - my mum booked a holiday so my Dad couldn't go to the match and gave me his ticket - right by where mark taylor went over for his try )

Whatever the outcome, I think it will be one of the matches of the autumn series ( unlike the dire stodge served up at Twickers last Saturday)

BD,

We must have been pretty close to each other that day then as I was in same area of the ground and can still see Taylor running towards me  

Liam Williams playing? Good. Impressive last time we played them.

The Saint wrote:I've said elsewhere, but I'd start with - Jenkins, Hibbard, Jones, AWJ, Davies, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau, Phillips, Priestland, L.Williams, S.Williams, J.Davies, North, Halfpenny. I think they'd target Priest, so Warbs and Phillips will be babysitting.

I would swap Sanjay and Halfpenny, not because I think either is better than the other on the wing or at fullback, but because that backline is more or less a Turk/Ex-Turk backline (and future Turk if Halfpenny is willing to jump ship  ), and I think that Sanjay has a better understanding with Priest, Foxy, Scott and North, so should be the better of the two fullbacks for knowing when to come into the line and whose shoulder is better to run off.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Allan Rolland is the ref according to the Telegraph  
I FU**ing give up, they guy is a complete tool seen him ruin many a game of rugby,not just Welsh ones.

I have a serious problem with an ex Leinster man and ex Irish International as a ref!self importance comes far to naturally just from that.

So the Western Fail should run 'free red cards' in its paper on Saturday, and we can all wave them at Rolland every time he blows his whistle for a pen against the South Africans?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Allan Rolland is the ref according to the Telegraph  
I FU**ing give up, they guy is a complete tool seen him ruin many a game of rugby,not just Welsh ones.

I have a serious problem with an ex Leinster man and ex Irish International as a ref!self importance comes far to naturally just from that.

So the Western Fail should run 'free red cards' in its paper on Saturday, and we can all wave them at Rolland every time he blows his whistle for a pen against the South Africans?

Gee, that is a bit harsh, you should wait for a French game. We have had our share with his countryman Romain Poite.  

Funny that, as we've had our fair share of his countryman too.

News from Meyer

Supersport. wrote:

by Gavin Rich 05 November 2013, 08:45


Previous Springbok coaches and teams that have visited Cardiff have prayed for the inclement weather to stay away, but if there is one thing the modern tourists would like to see on the menu for Saturday’s test against Wales, it is rain.

Bok coach Heyneke Meyer told a press conference in Cardiff at the start of the build-up week to the test against the Six Nations champions that he will not be asking for the Millennium Stadium roof to be closed for the game.

Instead, he would like his players to be exposed to the elements that they may well be encountering when they return to the United Kingdom for the World Cup in two years' time.

It is all part of Meyer’s “sink or swim” mantra for the tour – he wants to see which players can make it in the environment they will face at the World Cup, and which won’t.

As he says, he wants the mistakes to be made now, and not when it really counts in 2015. And if that means jettisoning the players who don’t come through on this tour, so be it.

“I have always said there is no such thing as bad weather, only soft players,” said Meyer.

“I will be disappointed if the skies are clear. I want to use this tour to test players in the condition they can expect at the World Cup. I want to see who is mentally tough enough to brave the cold and the rain, and who is not. I want to see which players get stuck in when the weather is bad because the rain will certainly strike in most games of the World Cup. So the more rain on this tour, the better.”

For the Millennium Stadium roof to be closed for a game, both coaches have to agree. Meyer said he won’t agree, so regardless of what Wales coach Warren Gatland might want, it looks as though Saturday’s game will be played in the wet if, as predicted, the rain clouds move in over the Principality at the weekend.

Meyer has said that he will be giving fringe players an opportunity to play on this tour, thus departing from his continuity in selection policy for this trip as he starts to build his depth and grow his squad for the World Cup.

“I do not regard this as an end of year tour, but rather a new start in the quest to see which players are up to playing at the required level in difficult conditions against three very tough teams,” he said.

“I have always said that as a Springbok coach the most important thing is to win every test match, but at some stage you have to have an eye on the World Cup, which is undoubtedly the highlight of the four year cycle. You cannot just hope that the team will come together over the four years, at some stage you have to start putting things in place. That time is now.”

If Meyer is true to his word and does give fringe players opportunities, there could be some mixing and matching in selection for the second match against Scotland in Edinburgh.

“Regardless of what happens against Wales there are players I want to give an opportunity to in that game,” said Meyer.

The Bok team for the Wales test will be named on Wednesday and is expected to include Japan-based backline players JP Pietersen and Jaque Fourie, with JJ Engelbrecht and Willie le Roux the men set to drop out.

Lourens Adriaanse, the tough as teak Griquas tighthead destined to play for the Sharks next year, is likely to replace the injured Jannie du Plessis in the front-row.

Biltong wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Allan Rolland is the ref according to the Telegraph  
I FU**ing give up, they guy is a complete tool seen him ruin many a game of rugby,not just Welsh ones.

I have a serious problem with an ex Leinster man and ex Irish International as a ref!self importance comes far to naturally just from that.

So the Western Fail should run 'free red cards' in its paper on Saturday, and we can all wave them at Rolland every time he blows his whistle for a pen against the South Africans?

Gee, that is a bit harsh, you should wait for a French game. We have had our share with his countryman Romain Poite.  

Was going to suggest doing it every time Warbs made a tackle, but that would not really be any gain for us.

I have visions of Meyer in his hotel room doing a rain dance as given his coach's box antics he seems mad enough to do it.

Interesting though that mentality. Bring on the rain because that makes for good preparation. I wonder if that extends to home matches as well. Get off the high veld and start playing in Cape Town where it's more likely to rain.

15.L Halfpenny,
14. E Walker,
13. J Davies,
12. S Williams,
11. G North,
10. R Priestland,
9. M Phillips,

1. G Jenkins,
2. R Hibbard,
3. A Jones,
4. B Davies,
5. AW Jones,
6. D Lydiate,
7. S Warburton (capt),
8. T Faletau

Subs TBA

(From a reliable source)

Bench: Owens, James, Andrews, Charteris, Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, Hook, Liam Williams

Damn no Biggar??

He doesn't like Biggar much, does he - Gatland?

Priestland is a better player IMO. He just hasn't the mental toughness for international rugby SO FAR.

Scott Andrews on the bench?!

And I thought we lacked options at tighthead... surely his performances recently against Toulon and Ulster should have put an end to any short-term international hopes he might have had?

Here's why Adam Jones better last 80 mins

https://youtu.be/vHzCzEbeBkM?t=1h6m33s

Although it must be said that was at least partly due to the Blues second row standing up, but Andrews didn't even make it to half-time at Ravenhill the next week... pretty amazing selection decision really.

Scott Andrews is not the second-best Welsh tighthead. Lloyd Williams is certainly not the second-best Welsh scrum half.

England/NZ.... Craig Joubert

I am so sick of seeing this guy reffing NZ games, they tend to have his number!

Little bit worried for Wales now I'm looking at that team, Jenkins is a bit over the hill, he and Andrews are getting mullered at club rugby, Davies too! Jones is truggling right now in the Ospreys isn't he?

Lydiate and Phillips havn't played for how long? and how many games have they had this season?

Eli Walker look very weak defencively, and has been injured hasn't he? Cuthbert I have seen look as dangerous as ever for the Blues.

How has Scott Williams been playing? Hook has been inconsistent, I have seen him have 1 blinder and 1 nightmare.

Going to be a long AI for Wales, they seem to have the same problems as last AI's.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Scott Andrews is not the second-best Welsh tighthead. Lloyd Williams is certainly not the second-best Welsh scrum half.

I have been baffled at how Scott Andrews makes the Blues 23 when everyone is fit, nevermind the Welsh one! If there is a glaring weakness in this Welsh 23 thats it.

Few surprises or more dis-appointment from my view poit:

1 I am quite shocked Biggar not even on the bench and I would have had him ahead of Hook.

2 Would have started James, Li Williams and Charteris.

3 Ll Williams has never filled me with confidence and would have had him in squad let alone on bench.

4 Andrews mmmmmmm well lets just hope he doesn't have to go on to soon.

That said its the side Gats has picked so from now on in C'MON CYMRU

Last time Scott Andrews was crucified by the public he stepped up. I'll have confidence of him doing so again.

Overall what I expected with the exception of Walker for Williams. Think they should have gone for Williams but Walker must be impressing in training and does have that real x factor if the games breaks up.