Ireland V Australia

First topic message reminder :

ME-109 wrote:All water under the bridge now....Aus up next which will be interesting...someone start a thread

How hard was that..........

Yeah, look it's true the Irish media is ridiculous and loves ignoring mistakes when it's their agenda to big certain players up to sell papers. It loves scapegoating Ulster players because their readership comes from the other three provinces. We know that. We've known that for many, many years. It's not a surprise.

The question is, do the coaches scapegoat players of a particular province- the answer is no. Schmidt may have picked a lot of Leinster players but they didn't win trophies because he was willing to play favourites and overlook mistakes. He'll be on the back of everyone for what they screwed up in the same way he'll praise everyone for what they did well.

Usual Southern media nonsense is something we know about. Getting up in arms = storm in a tea cup.

Pete330v2 wrote:There is no sign of the dust settling on this one soon is there folks?

I think we can all agree that as a team, Ireland didn't function on saturday no matter about who's to blame for what. I know one thing, it's nothing to do with Schmidt. It's proof to me that a coach needs some time to be able to make his mark on a side and Schmidt had one game under his belt before the Ozzies came calling. Schmidt is a smart guy and will have solutions to problems eventually but unfortunately for us I don't think that his third game in is going to be that moment. The ABs on sunday could be painful, good lord I hope not.

I might be inclined to say that's the voice of reason amidst the very understandable recriminations that follow such a brutally sub-standard International performance.  I might say that but I'd prefer say it is simply the truth you speak - reason or no reason.  We're in a fix, and the All Blacks won't let us off the hook or give us time to breathe now.  They will have seen the game, they'll have made up their minds that Ireland are still weak enough to torture - and they'll intend to torture us so that the impact of our psychological fear of them will endure another half decade at least.  They are the kind of team I so very wish we'd develop into - not in ability (perhaps a bridge much too far for now!!!!) but in terms of having no mercy for weaker teams.

Hopefully that day might come when thinking about a more settled Ireland into next year.... but for now, Schmidt knows just how much he has to work on.  He's newer to International rugby than most of his players.  He has had his first shock to the system.  Nexy week he might get a much more humiliating one.  He'll have to hang in there mentally and then begin the process of real intense attention to detail in what he wants from his furture internationals.  And they in turn will have to say 'yes' - we're willing to put in the workrate to get to TRUE International standard - or 'no', this is tougher than we have the skills or resolve to sustain, Provincial will be good enough for us - give my berth to someone else.

It's so pointed how many players should now be thinking of admitting the latter.  Six Nations standard is NOT International standard.  International standard is being capable of competitiveness with the top International sides, and those sides still reside in the SH.  If you don't have the lungs, the pace, the brain or the willingness to engage at high intensity International level...then step aside and allow your place to go to someone else.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sorry Geoff but that is plain wrong, it's not an opinion, and apologies if that's blunt but Madigan took his man. .

Sorry I totally disagree from what I have seen Madigan took no one that was the problem - Marshall then failed to readjust and make a tackle

I think you are all paranoid. Marshall obviously brought the missed tackle up himself (possibly because he wanted to let everyone know that Schmidt was understanding about it).

Despite the media's obvious intention to make Luke a scapegoat, their plan is failing miserably because I haven't seen any criticism of him in general. Most say he is a fine young player who made a mistake that we all hope he will learn from now.

This persecution complex is a tad irrating - everyone would have forgotten about Tom Court's problems at TH against England if some people stopped bringing up how badly he was treated by the southern fans.

Going forward we have to use the 6N to rebuild.

That means being brutal and letting a few regulars go.
The 6N squad will be key for me in in terms of whether or not Schmidt is getting to grip with the problem.

These autumn international have shown it is worse than I, and I supect Schmidt, thought.

Sin é wrote:I think you are all paranoid. Marshall obviously brought the missed tackle up himself (possibly because he wanted to let everyone know that Schmidt was understanding about it).

Despite the media's obvious intention to make Luke a scapegoat, their plan is failing miserably because I  haven't seen any criticism of him in general. Most say he is a fine young player who made a mistake that we all hope he will learn from now.

This persecution complex is a tad irrating - everyone would have forgotten about Tom Court's problems at TH against England if some people stopped bringing up how badly he was treated by the southern fans.

Munster fan finds persecution complex irritating shocker!!! Ha ha!!!

geoff998rugby wrote:Going forward we have to use the 6N to rebuild.

That means being brutal and letting a few regulars go.
The 6N squad will be key for me in in terms of whether or not Schmidt is getting to grip with the problem.

These autumn international have shown it is worse than I, and I supect Schmidt, thought.

Absolutely I think this weekend should be BODs last game for us and possibly rosses too. An alternative to POC needs to be brought in and a backrow combination that works together needs to be found.

Sin é wrote:I think you are all paranoid. Marshall obviously brought the missed tackle up himself (possibly because he wanted to let everyone know that Schmidt was understanding about it).

Despite the media's obvious intention to make Luke a scapegoat, their plan is failing miserably because I  haven't seen any criticism of him in general. Most say he is a fine young player who made a mistake that we all hope he will learn from now.

This persecution complex is a tad irrating - everyone would have forgotten about Tom Court's problems at TH against England if some people stopped bringing up how badly he was treated by the southern fans.

To be honest I had forgotten, it's the eejit who selected one dodgy tight head on an Irish squad I will always remember though.

geoff998rugby wrote:Going forward we have to use the 6N to rebuild.

That means being brutal and letting a few regulars go.
The 6N squad will be key for me in in terms of whether or not Schmidt is getting to grip with the problem.

These autumn international have shown it is worse than I, and I supect Schmidt, thought.

Yep, you and Joe. Two peas in a pod.

Fly, I think you made a very perceptive point- the Irish team lack the 'lungs' for international rugby. First off we aren't well conditioned generally. The fitness, or lack of it, is there to see. Some players simply need more games for their province. Not all players need to be 'managed' like BOD. I've been banging on about this for some time.

Also, when you ask Best & Healy to do the breakdown work of SOB & POM because you have set then out wide in the hunt for Hollywood carrying then no wonder they are exhausted after 50-60 minutes. We badly need TOD or Henry in the side. Individually they might not be world beaters, but Munster and Ulster are different sides when they help do the dirty work to allow others to play to their strengths.

Of course we don't have the lungs for it! Sure half the squad qualify for free flu jabs!

...or the balls...................... 

Well guys, what Ireland need to do to give NZ a game is smash them off the ball at the breakdown and come up fast on them in midfield.

I see so many teams sit back and watch them play. To NZ space is like oxygen - deny them that and, like anyone, they will find it hard to breathe.

Ireland need to pick players to play that game, or get the incumbents to do a lot better. I couldn't believe how much space you gave Aus, and that includes some really poor kicking to the likes of Folau.

Good luck btw

Here's Australia's Green and Golds take on it

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/video-analysis-how-the-wallabies-pressured-ireland/