Ireland V Australia

ME-109 wrote:All water under the bridge now....Aus up next which will be interesting...someone start a thread

How hard was that..........

Heaslip should be dropped..

Something which wasn't discussed much on the other thread was John Plumtree's contribution to the pack. I saw a marked improvement in effective rucking with much less of the five lads hanging at the back of the ruck nonsense we saw last year. That and the scrum/lineout improvements mean i think the forwards have the potential to dominate Aus, though Plumtree's work will really be evaluated against NZ.

also when will the team be named? can't find it on IRFU website

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We kept it pretty simple in the lineout and in a lot of other areas for that matter. There was a sense of back to basics about a lot of our play, which was good. Get the basics right and then build on that platform as time goes on would seem to be the Schmidt way. He isn't throwing the kind of complexity that leads to mistakes, confusion and system failures at the team he's slowly introducing new ideas. It will take time.

What we can't afford to do is to just ship the ball along the back line and then kick it away when it reaches the touchline. We did too much of that. Sexton will naturally attack the gainline more than Jackson, and maybe a different 12 would make a difference to that too (D'Arcy was less guilty of the above in the second half to be fair).

Some key battles..

Healy vs Alexanter
Best vs Moore
POC vs Horwill
SOB vs Hooper
Sexton vs Cooper
Murray vs Genia


Folau is a terrific player and he has to be watched carefull as does the wingers. The Aussis have some ordinary players too. Cooper is back to his best and Genis must also be watched.

Is Earls defo out? Fitz is replacing Bowe not Earls.

We are also missing Zebo, Gilroy, (Bowe obviously) if Earls is out too we are seriously short on the wings. We would have to start Dave Kearney with Luke or Trimble on the bench.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Is Earls defo out? Fitz is replacing Bowe not Earls.

We are also missing Zebo, Gilroy, (Bowe obviously) if Earls is out too we are seriously short on the wings. We would have to start Dave Kearney with Luke or Trimble on the bench.

Would that really be terrible? Trimble would hardly let us down for example.

profitius wrote:Some key battles..

Healy vs Alexanter
Best vs Moore
POC vs Horwill
SOB vs Hooper
Sexton vs Cooper
Murray vs Genia


Folau is a terrific player and he has to be watched carefull as does the wingers. The Aussis have some ordinary players too. Cooper is back to his best and Genis must also be watched.

Jebus Prof you're like the Skibereen Eagle...watching everybody...

20-10 Ireland

GunsGerms wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Is Earls defo out? Fitz is replacing Bowe not Earls.

We are also missing Zebo, Gilroy, (Bowe obviously) if Earls is out too we are seriously short on the wings. We would have to start Dave Kearney with Luke or Trimble on the bench.

Would that really be terrible? Trimble would hardly let us down for example.

The quality of guys like Folau, Ashley-Cooper and Nick (The honey Badger) Cummins V Trimble, Dave K and Ferg.........

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Is Earls defo out? Fitz is replacing Bowe not Earls.

We are also missing Zebo, Gilroy, (Bowe obviously) if Earls is out too we are seriously short on the wings. We would have to start Dave Kearney with Luke or Trimble on the bench.

Would that really be terrible? Trimble would hardly let us down for example.

The quality of guys like Folau, Ashley-Cooper and Nick (The honey Badger) Cummins V Trimble, Dave K and Ferg.........

I wouldnt throw DK into that game but wouldnt be concerned with McFadden or Trimble.

Bowe isn't definitely out yet.

Notch wrote:Bowe isn't definitely out yet.

Just heard Mick Kearney on the Wireless. Earls is defo out.

Bow will probably play on one leg if he has to.

Well phook yiz anyway. I just laid out a brilliant ortictle for this gig, then I saw this offering from Jen... Man.

Anyway, just to kick it off, here's my personal  23 for Oz.
1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. POC
5. Toner
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

9. Reddan
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Madigan
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. R. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Fitzpatrick
19. Tuohy
20. Jennings
21. Murray
22. Jackson
23. D. Kearney

First post, obligatory hello etc.

It seems to me like we might see a huge number of Leinster players this weekend. Schmidt clearly said that it was in Sexton's favour that he and Les Kiss already knew him, this implies to me that he will opt for those he knows if it comes to tight calls, not that Sexton over Jackson is a tight call of course. However, it makes me wonder how the rest of the team will pan out.

If Bowe is injured, and with Earls, Zebo and Gilroy all missing, it would seem certain we will see another Leinster player, D Kearney or Fitzgerald take his place. Schmidt also commented that some of the backline being unfamiliar with each other may have contributed to the sluggishness that was apparent in attack. This leads me to suspect he will persist with D'arcy and Drico in the centres, it also seems to me that it opens the door to Reddan replacing Murray at scrum half. If that happens then the entire backline could be Leinster players. On top of that, I suspect the pack will be Leinster dominated as well. Toner and McCarthy were far from wonderful at the weekend, solid at best, but as Dan Tuohy didn't make the squad can he really displace either of them? I don't think so.

So, realistically could the team be:
Healy - Best - Ross
Toner - POC
POM - Heaslip - SOB
Reddan - Sexton
D'Arcy - BOD
McFadden - R Kearney - D Kearney

Cronin - McGrath - Fitzpatrick - McCarthy - McLaughlin - Murray - Madigan - Fitzgerald

That makes 12 starters and 6 bench players from Leinster. This is surely unprecedented, can anyone remember an Ireland team with so many players from one province?

Nope....but if we beat Australia I don't care where the players come from....

Oh yea welcome!

Welcome grey goose -

Personally I would be pretty depressed if that were the team.  Not simply because it is 12 players from Leinster, I just don't think that is a particularly strong team and we would be fairly steamrolled by a much quicker, much stronger and much more skilful Australian back line.

Against Samoa our centres were really exposed at times.  Especially O'Driscoll, unfortunately..

Very true Rodders it doesn't matter one bit, as long as we win. If we don't Schmidt may be relying heavily on the 'honeymoon period' to stave off the accusations of blind favouritism.

 

Jayzuz Goose, welcome to V2 man!  

Exactly, the only way to go in this Tournooi, is to use Leinster to get Ireland & Joe on the map. Let the lesser provincial players learn from it,  then share out the political positions in the 6-N. Token-stylee.

I reckon Leinster could take the Keewees. We nearly did.

Throw in Best and POC, and we are there.

Is Donnacha Ryan out for this one?

All well and good Rory but BOD is going to play...

I think there are a few marginal calls, and understandably they are going Leinster's way initially as Joe is getting to know the players.

Marshall and Touhy can feel a bit unlucky, maybe Trimbs, but I don't think there's much in it. Bar the injured guys I don't think there are any players who can come in an make a huge difference.

I agree with you Rory. BOD & Darcy are being exposed defensively by the game. Fair call. And Oz will love that knowledge.

But these two boys are the longest serving, top-class, centre partnership in history. They read each other when the chips are down or when there is a gap. They really wake up in the big ones. I reckon they may just do ok.

I would agree Rodders where there are marginal calls Schmidt is right, for the time being, to rely on those he knows. But honestly, I wouldn't personally call D'Arcy v Marshall marginal, Marshall is far past him now, it was clear against Samoa that D'Arcy has lost his edge, the set-up for McFadden's try was more very poor Samoan defending that any brilliance from D'Arcy and Marshall has a kicking game that D'Arcy and BOD just don't have. If Schmidt picks D'Arcy it can be nothing other than favouritism.

rodders wrote:All well and good Rory but BOD is going to play...

I think there are a few marginal calls, and understandably they are going Leinster's way initially as Joe is getting to know the players.

Marshall and Touhy can feel a bit unlucky, maybe Trimbs, but I don't think there's much in it. Bar the injured guys I don't think there are any players who can come in an make a huge difference.

I don't understand how you can say there isn't much in it, especially when it comes to the centres.  I think new blood in the centres is exactly what we need right now, it was the weak link against Samoa and it will be exposed heavily against Australia.  Honestly, if we are going to do another full year of D'Arcy-O'Driscoll I will tear my hair out.  I don't think I could take it.

We need a bit of pace and power in the centres for a change.  To me there is literally nothing to lose with Marshall at 12, other than the fact he is inexperienced.  He is a better runner, better playmaker and better defender than any other option right now.

greygoose wrote:I would agree Rodders where there are marginal calls Schmidt is right, for the time being, to rely on those he knows. But honestly, I wouldn't personally call D'Arcy v Marshall marginal, Marshall is far past him now, it was clear against Samoa that D'Arcy has lost his edge, the set-up for McFadden's try was more very poor Samoan defending that any brilliance from D'Arcy and Marshall has a kicking game that D'Arcy and BOD just don't have. If Schmidt picks D'Arcy it can be nothing other than favouritism.

  I agree 100%.

Ahj here Goose, favourtism is not Schmidts way. He likes to win, and to do that, he fits pieces of the jigsaw together to ensure he does. And he changes it, in key areas, for different types of opposition. Huge shift from Kidney.

If Joe plays Dorce, its because he is the best option to fit his plan. Its as simple as that.

I predicted 1 win for Ireland and after this weekend my view still stands, but i hope i'm proven wrong. Australia will expose our defensive line as they have far more street smarts than samoa have and as long as they have access to clean ball we'll struggle.

Also ireland play best when underdogs :-)

But that runs contrary to what he has said publicly Gibson. He has said that it is in Sexton's favour that he knows him, I think it reasonable to extend that sentiment to the rest of his selections - that is favouritism. If he plays D'Arcy it is because he is giving unfair preferential treatment to those he knows.

I sort of agree goose but I can see why Schmidt likes D'arcy because of his work at the breakdown and off the ball running. Marshall is very talented, and in theory brings more to the table, but it might be that Schmidt trusts D'arcy a bit more to play the system at this stage.

Gibson wrote:Ahj here Goose, favourtism is not Schmidts way. He likes to win, and to do that, he fits pieces of the jigsaw together to ensure he does. And he changes it, in key areas, for different types of opposition. Huge shift from Kidney.

If Joe plays Dorce, its because he is the best option to fit his plan. Its as simple as that.

I thought darcy played well - some nice steps and generally made yards whenever he had to. we are in need of someone like Bowe having a blinder but we dony really have anyone standing out like folau, cooper and cummins are for australia.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
We need a bit of pace and power in the centres for a change.  To me there is literally nothing to lose with Marshall at 12, other than the fact he is inexperienced.  He is a better runner, better playmaker and better defender than any other option right now.

Honestly Rory I think there are a couple of things about Marshall that Schmidt won't like -  he tends to force passes and also doesn't get involved at the breakdown. I suspect once Marshall works on these and gets used to Schmidt's system he'll take the shirt off D'arcy ... if Olding hasn't leapfrogged them both first...

greygoose wrote:But that runs contrary to what he has said publicly Gibson. He has said that it is in Sexton's favour that he knows him, I think it reasonable to extend that sentiment to the rest of his selections - that is favouritism. If he plays D'Arcy it is because he is giving unfair preferential treatment to those he knows.

You really believe that man? I don't think you know how he really  works then. He will play the best players to fit his plan. Leinster, as an entity, don't come into it for him now.
I think you underrate his intellect and ambition sir.  

If 11 or 12 of the team to face the Aussies and the AB's are from Leinster, no one should be surprised. This may cause a grinding of  turnips and a sucking of farls, but, in reality, they give us the best possible crack at the Keewees. Not provincial bias, much, just Gatland logic at this point in time. Best combination of players play.

Anyone?

What rodders said, specifically the bit about Olding leapfrogging them both. Olding is too gifted not to emerge into a larger role sooner or later (with Ulster sooner and Ireland later) and I still feel 12 is his best position.

littlejohn wrote:

Gibson wrote:Ahj here Goose, favourtism is not Schmidts way. He likes to win, and to do that, he fits pieces of the jigsaw together to ensure he does. And he changes it, in key areas, for different types of opposition. Huge shift from Kidney.

If Joe plays Dorce, its because he is the best option to fit his plan. Its as simple as that.

I thought darcy played well - some nice steps and generally made yards whenever he had to. we are in need of someone like Bowe having a blinder but we dony really have anyone standing out like folau, cooper and cummins are for australia.

I'd personally don't rate the Honey Badger too highly. I'd have DK and McFadden on par if not ahead of him. Trimble and Fitz are just as good if not better than AAC, and Bowe is up there with with Folau.

Outplay their pack and play well defensively, they won't put too many points on us.

I'm concerned with our lack of X factor in D'Arcy, McFadden, and Kearney (on current form).

There is no way D'Arcy should be ahead of Marshall. I disagree with the argument concerning D'Arcy's breakdown skills. Firstly, I didn't see evidence of D'Arcy's superior breakdown skills. Secondly, if Marshall was asked to apply himself more to the breakdown, I'm sure he could, and he does look like he has a good build for it.

Team I'd have for Sat:

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
POC
Tuohy

(That front five looks soo much stronger on paper than the one against Samoa, and they were quite good against Samoa)

POM
SOB
Heaslip

Murray
Sexton
Fitzgerald
Marshall
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Obviously Fitz won't be playing, but I'd love to see Tuohy at least make the bench. I'd also love to see Declan get some good game time, he's a better player than Ross simple as.

Fair enough, if Schmidt wants to pick certain players to implement his game in these early days, I'll stand by him. But, come the 6N, if Tuohy, Marshall, Fitzpatrick, the other Marshall, and Marmion, are still outplaying Toner, D'Arce, McCarthy, Ross, Reddan, Boss, then I will be seriously pished.

The front 5 against Samoa will be exposed against better teams.

Have to disagree with the point that Marshall doesn't get involved at the breakdown. He is a one man ruck which D'arcy isn't these days. Watch his debut against Scotland or any ulster game and you will see Marshall tidy up ball when players are either stopped on or behind the gainline. he has the core strength that D'arce used to have. 

If Schmidt goes with D'arcy I will be massively disappointed and It will IMO be the wrong call but we have to give the guy his dues and let him work to whatever plan he wants. 

I don't think D'arcy did enough to retain the shirt but there is only one guy who counts.

I think Marshall is being written off unfairly by a few fans on here, but sure, it is up to him to prove people wrong.

gleesonisgod wrote:

littlejohn wrote:

Gibson wrote:Ahj here Goose, favourtism is not Schmidts way. He likes to win, and to do that, he fits pieces of the jigsaw together to ensure he does. And he changes it, in key areas, for different types of opposition. Huge shift from Kidney.

If Joe plays Dorce, its because he is the best option to fit his plan. Its as simple as that.

I thought darcy played well - some nice steps and generally made yards whenever he had to. we are in need of someone like Bowe having a blinder but we dony really have anyone standing out like folau, cooper and cummins are for australia.

I'd personally don't rate the Honey Badger too highly. I'd have DK and McFadden on par if not ahead of him. Trimble and Fitz are just as good if not better than AAC, and Bowe is up there with with Folau.

Outplay their pack and play well defensively, they won't put too many points on us.

I'm concerned with our lack of X factor in D'Arcy, McFadden, and Kearney (on current form).

There is no way D'Arcy should be ahead of Marshall. I disagree with the argument concerning D'Arcy's breakdown skills. Firstly, I didn't see evidence of D'Arcy's superior breakdown skills. Secondly, if Marshall was asked to apply himself more to the breakdown, I'm sure he could, and he does look like he has a good build for it.

Team I'd have for Sat:

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
POC
Tuohy

(That front five looks soo much stronger on paper than the one against Samoa, and they were quite good against Samoa)

POM
SOB
Heaslip

Murray
Sexton
Fitzgerald
Marshall
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Obviously Fitz won't be playing, but I'd love to see Tuohy at least make the bench. I'd also love to see Declan get some good game time, he's a better player than Ross simple as.

Fair enough, if Schmidt wants to pick certain players to implement his game in these early days, I'll stand by him. But, come the 6N, if Tuohy, Marshall, Fitzpatrick, the other Marshall, and Marmion, are still outplaying Toner, D'Arce, McCarthy, Ross, Reddan, Boss, then I will be seriously pished.

The front 5 against Samoa will be exposed against better teams.

I'd go with that lineup bar Murray - reddan instead only because murray has been sheite since the lions. Touhy i'd go with too, but can see schmidt going with toner, darcy and murray on sat. Will be pleasantly surprised if he tries a few different things though.

Evening chaps,
Sorry to hijack that thread but when do you expect to have a new centre partnership settled or at least tested properly? By the time the next AIs are around? (Assume it is BOD and probably d'Arcy's last season).

whocares wrote:Evening chaps,
Sorry to hijack that thread but when do you expect to have a new centre partnership settled or at least tested properly? By the time the next AIs are around? (Assume it is BOD and probably d'Arcy's last season).

It could be the 6 nations or even next weekend. He'll probably look to blood players on the summer tour.

At this point Marshall is the only pretender to the 12 shirt. He is better than the incumbent but it depends on how and when Schmidt wants to change his backline.

Payne is the one everyone is expecting to be our next 13 but he isn't 'Irish' until next summer. That said if Marshall can secure the 12 position for ulster and Ireland (it is an if still) then he will most likely will have played a fair bit with Payne provincially. Olding is the wild card in there as may be Griffin, Henshaw and even potentially Madigan although I don't see it

Where and how is the fabulous Stephen Ferris? Will he be back at some point?

December or more likely January if at all

profitius wrote:

whocares wrote:Evening chaps,
Sorry to hijack that thread but when do you expect to have a new centre partnership settled or at least tested properly? By the time the next AIs are around? (Assume it is BOD and probably d'Arcy's last season).

It could be the 6 nations or even next weekend. He'll probably look to blood players on the summer tour.

Earls/Payne and Marshall/McFadden are some of the candiates for Bod/darcy. Earls to me has that spark BOd had - he just needs to reign in that enthusiasm in defence and learn to feckin pass! Payne wont be IQ till next year but i'd expect him to get lots of caps. Marshall too over time, and McFadden might get a crack there too asuming we'll be loaded in wing with zebo, bowe, gilroy, fitz, d kearney, morris and probably earls all battling for berths.

Does anyone know Australia's fixture list? Seems like they'll be getting two weeks off before playing Wales?

The Saint wrote:Does anyone know Australia's fixture list? Seems like they'll be getting two weeks off before playing Wales?

No, they play Scotland (23/11) between Ireland and Wales.

littlejohn wrote:

gleesonisgod wrote:

littlejohn wrote:

Gibson wrote:Ahj here Goose, favourtism is not Schmidts way. He likes to win, and to do that, he fits pieces of the jigsaw together to ensure he does. And he changes it, in key areas, for different types of opposition. Huge shift from Kidney.

If Joe plays Dorce, its because he is the best option to fit his plan. Its as simple as that.

I thought darcy played well - some nice steps and generally made yards whenever he had to. we are in need of someone like Bowe having a blinder but we dony really have anyone standing out like folau, cooper and cummins are for australia.

I'd personally don't rate the Honey Badger too highly. I'd have DK and McFadden on par if not ahead of him. Trimble and Fitz are just as good if not better than AAC, and Bowe is up there with with Folau.

Outplay their pack and play well defensively, they won't put too many points on us.

I'm concerned with our lack of X factor in D'Arcy, McFadden, and Kearney (on current form).

There is no way D'Arcy should be ahead of Marshall. I disagree with the argument concerning D'Arcy's breakdown skills. Firstly, I didn't see evidence of D'Arcy's superior breakdown skills. Secondly, if Marshall was asked to apply himself more to the breakdown, I'm sure he could, and he does look like he has a good build for it.

Team I'd have for Sat:

Healy
Best
Fitzpatrick
POC
Tuohy

(That front five looks soo much stronger on paper than the one against Samoa, and they were quite good against Samoa)

POM
SOB
Heaslip

Murray
Sexton
Fitzgerald
Marshall
BOD
Bowe
Kearney

Obviously Fitz won't be playing, but I'd love to see Tuohy at least make the bench. I'd also love to see Declan get some good game time, he's a better player than Ross simple as.

Fair enough, if Schmidt wants to pick certain players to implement his game in these early days, I'll stand by him. But, come the 6N, if Tuohy, Marshall, Fitzpatrick, the other Marshall, and Marmion, are still outplaying Toner, D'Arce, McCarthy, Ross, Reddan, Boss, then I will be seriously pished.

The front 5 against Samoa will be exposed against better teams.

I'd go with that lineup bar Murray - reddan instead only because murray has been sheite since the lions. Touhy i'd go with too, but can see schmidt going with toner, darcy and murray on sat. Will be pleasantly surprised if he tries a few different things though.

Reddan has been sheite all season as well. Murray has played them twice recently and must have done endless video analysis on Australia. He will be starting.

Australia are playing five tests this Autumn, plus the additional Bledisloe. So fifteen test matches in a near continuous block. Pretty crazy.

Australia have to be 5+ point favourites for this. Let's not let the Samoa game give us false expectations/delusions.

Reading through this thread can I say, as a Leinster man I don't care which players are picked and where they are from, so long as they give us the best opportunity to play most effectively as a team. If that means no Leinster players or all Leinster, I don't care.