Ireland V Australia

First topic message reminder :

ME-109 wrote:All water under the bridge now....Aus up next which will be interesting...someone start a thread

How hard was that..........

Marshall deserves to start. Schmidt hinted last week that D'Arcy was favoured over Marshall to add experience outside Jackson. With Sexton coming back theres no need for the experience of D'Arcy.

Cyril wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think Schmidt might go again for a stronger bench than maybe people are expecting with perhaps O'Brien and maybe even Sexton or Healy being held back again until the second half.

That would be unwise.

Ireland need to go all out to stand a decent chance against the Aussies.

It's not a development game.

It's not a development game - but it's an 80 minute game - against a high quality side.

I think it's old style thinking that people seem to suggest you always do all your best work in the first half (with your prefered first choice players) and then let the lesser subs on in the second half to try and hold out.  

Not necessarily always the only tactic that works.  There is always the idea that you put second choice players on in the first half, as often a game has to get up to speed in the first half and the 'holding out' players might have a more successful time trying to do so in that first half.  Then the second half, release some heavy duty first choice players to do damage on tiring first choice opponents.

GunsGerms wrote:There will be surprises I reckon.

Left field possibility of Jennings in the number 20 jersey.

Toss up between him and Kev, but they had Hooper and Gill in their 23 last week. We have no cover at 7, 2 players who can play 6, and 3 at 8. (POM, SOB, JH will start)

Pete330v2 wrote:"JmD wrote:
I'm just going to weigh in and say there hasn't been a better Ulster player this season than Luke Marshall. He wasn't a potential Lions bolter last season

I beg to differ, there are a number of players on the Ulster squad who have out-performed Luke Marshall so far this seaon. That's not to say the lad has the potential to be the best but at the moment he's not quite at his best. When he is on fire he's a force to be reckoned with and will be a lion on the next tour I believe.

I disagree, Marshall has stood out for me in almost every match played this season. It's just my opinion, but there is nobody I would choose over him if there was a player of the year award handed out now.

...and yet it's a young man, who isn't even a first teamer, who is probably responsible for Munster being at the top of the Pro12 table now.  JJ Hanrahan.

Why do rugby connoisseurs always so easily turn a blind eye to auld turnip sniffing hoofers Munster when handing out 'great' player awards.

No!  It can't be one of them!  They're wellie wearing turf muckers!  

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Really interesting line in the irishtimes yesterday when speaking about who will partner O'Connell they continue to say

"Other positions under serious review are scrumhalf, inside centre, outhalf and openside flanker."

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/tommy-bowe-expected-to-line-up-against-australia-1.1592254

Yep thats what I would have said myself. Obviously Henry is not available so there will be a new openside, Reddan did really well in his cameo (although I think he may well be better used as the much-vaunted 'impact sub') and then we've covered the debate over 10 and 12.

It would be a major shock if it wasn't O'Brien at 7 and Sexton at 10 but 4, 9 and 12 are pretty open.

SecretFly wrote:...and yet it's a young man, who isn't even a first teamer, who is probably responsible for Munster being at the top of the Pro12 table now.  JJ Hanrahan.

Why do rugby connoisseurs always so easily turn a blind eye to auld turnip sniffing hoofers Munster when handing out 'great' player awards.

No!  It can't be one of them!  They're wellie wearing turf muckers!  

All for Hanrahan getting the credit he deserves, but he's shared the 10 duties with Keatley- surely you can't lay the entire credit for Munsters league position at his door when he's rotating in and out of the team?

rodders wrote:D'arcy typically hasn't done great against NZ and Schmidt/Kiss will be concerned about how the midfield defence went against Samoa in the first half .... on the few occasions they had ball we got opened up.

He was fantastic in the 2nd Test against NZ last year.

Thornley:

Paul O’Connell will lead the team onto the field, with Jamie Heaslip as vice captain, so Joe Schmidt must decide who will partner the Munster player in the secondrow.

It looks like a straight call between Devin Toner and Mike McCarthy.

How come Tuohy isn't in the reckoning?

Not sure. You going to the game Sin é?

JmD wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:"JmD wrote:
I'm just going to weigh in and say there hasn't been a better Ulster player this season than Luke Marshall. He wasn't a potential Lions bolter last season

I beg to differ, there are a number of players on the Ulster squad who have out-performed Luke Marshall so far this seaon. That's not to say the lad has the potential to be the best but at the moment he's not quite at his best. When he is on fire he's a force to be reckoned with and will be a lion on the next tour I believe.

I disagree, Marshall has stood out for me in almost every match played this season. It's just my opinion, but there is nobody I would choose over him if there was a player of the year award handed out now.

Really ??????????

Tuohy, Payne, Wilson to name but three have comfortably out performed Marshall.
That is not to say Marshall has not played well he has -but better than those guys I don't think so

Twitter exchanges between IRFU and Australia:

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/ireland-australia-twitter-1173287-Nov2013/

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...and yet it's a young man, who isn't even a first teamer, who is probably responsible for Munster being at the top of the Pro12 table now.  JJ Hanrahan.

Why do rugby connoisseurs always so easily turn a blind eye to auld turnip sniffing hoofers Munster when handing out 'great' player awards.

No!  It can't be one of them!  They're wellie wearing turf muckers!  

All for Hanrahan getting the credit he deserves, but he's shared the 10 duties with Keatley- surely you can't lay the entire credit for Munsters league position at his door when he's rotating in and out of the team?

Well, you might do if you look where Glasgow are and realise who played against them to slide Munster in just above them.... by milimetres.  Yeah, I'd say that was nifty work for the young man and if awards were being given this early (as was suggested) he'd be in the running.

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...and yet it's a young man, who isn't even a first teamer, who is probably responsible for Munster being at the top of the Pro12 table now.  JJ Hanrahan.

Why do rugby connoisseurs always so easily turn a blind eye to auld turnip sniffing hoofers Munster when handing out 'great' player awards.

No!  It can't be one of them!  They're wellie wearing turf muckers!  

All for Hanrahan getting the credit he deserves, but he's shared the 10 duties with Keatley- surely you can't lay the entire credit for Munsters league position at his door when he's rotating in and out of the team?

Well, you might do if you look where Glasgow are and realise who played against them to slide Munster in just above them.... by milimetres.  Yeah, I'd say that was nifty work for the young man and if awards were being given this early (as was suggested) he'd be in the running.

Does he get marked down for being the reason they lost to Edinburgh?

In the HEC? Which we're constantly told is all that matters to Munster?

Don Alfonso wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...and yet it's a young man, who isn't even a first teamer, who is probably responsible for Munster being at the top of the Pro12 table now.  JJ Hanrahan.

Why do rugby connoisseurs always so easily turn a blind eye to auld turnip sniffing hoofers Munster when handing out 'great' player awards.

No!  It can't be one of them!  They're wellie wearing turf muckers!  

All for Hanrahan getting the credit he deserves, but he's shared the 10 duties with Keatley- surely you can't lay the entire credit for Munsters league position at his door when he's rotating in and out of the team?

Well, you might do if you look where Glasgow are and realise who played against them to slide Munster in just above them.... by milimetres.  Yeah, I'd say that was nifty work for the young man and if awards were being given this early (as was suggested) he'd be in the running.

Does he get marked down for being the reason they lost to Edinburgh?

Only if Marshall gets marks deducted for Ulster being 5th

geoff998rugby wrote:

JmD wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:"JmD wrote:
I'm just going to weigh in and say there hasn't been a better Ulster player this season than Luke Marshall. He wasn't a potential Lions bolter last season

I beg to differ, there are a number of players on the Ulster squad who have out-performed Luke Marshall so far this seaon. That's not to say the lad has the potential to be the best but at the moment he's not quite at his best. When he is on fire he's a force to be reckoned with and will be a lion on the next tour I believe.

I disagree, Marshall has stood out for me in almost every match played this season. It's just my opinion, but there is nobody I would choose over him if there was a player of the year award handed out now.

Really ??????????

Tuohy, Payne, Wilson to name but three have comfortably out performed Marshall.
That is not to say Marshall has not played well he has -but better than those guys I don't think so

I honestly don't think so, Payne maybe but Marshall would be my selection.

Not a follow of the forwards art then.

No point having a boobie for tat but one thing I can assure of is your view is not shared by people within Ulster rugby itself - including I suspect Luke.

How about Olding? Now there is a spark I like.....

Don Alfonso wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...and yet it's a young man, who isn't even a first teamer, who is probably responsible for Munster being at the top of the Pro12 table now.  JJ Hanrahan.

Why do rugby connoisseurs always so easily turn a blind eye to auld turnip sniffing hoofers Munster when handing out 'great' player awards.

No!  It can't be one of them!  They're wellie wearing turf muckers!  

All for Hanrahan getting the credit he deserves, but he's shared the 10 duties with Keatley- surely you can't lay the entire credit for Munsters league position at his door when he's rotating in and out of the team?

Well, you might do if you look where Glasgow are and realise who played against them to slide Munster in just above them.... by milimetres.  Yeah, I'd say that was nifty work for the young man and if awards were being given this early (as was suggested) he'd be in the running.

Does he get marked down for being the reason they lost to Edinburgh?

Easily shared with Keatley

Is Keatley not as popular as JJ because he is from Leinster originally?

geoff998rugby wrote:Not a follow of the forwards art then.

No point having a boobie for tat but one thing I can assure of is your view is not shared by people within Ulster rugby itself - including I suspect Luke.

Well as a prop I wouldn't say I'm a not a fan of forwards, I just have a soft spot for backs who actually play hard. The point is that Marshall is a better option than D'Arcy, and now is as good a time as any to make the switch.

That may well be the case and I happen to agree with you but that is a completely different point to the one you made earlier.

It is always a good idea not to 'over egg the pudding' when argueing a point - that is what you you were doing earlier. The weight and validity of an argument is lost in that situation.

JmD wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Not a follow of the forwards art then.

No point having a boobie for tat but one thing I can assure of is your view is not shared by people within Ulster rugby itself - including I suspect Luke.

Well as a prop I wouldn't say I'm a not a fan of forwards, I just have a soft spot for backs who actually play hard. The point is that Marshall is a better option than D'Arcy, and now is as good a time as any to make the switch.

Who would get it in the neck if it didn't work?  The young player trying to get an International career up and running - or - the coach Joe Schmidt, who is also trying to get an International career up and running?
I'd guess the media would know who to isolate and many of us here would follow along.  Hang Schmidt - he made the wrong decision and probably knocked back the young player's confidence levels now!

There will be a good time for a switch - I agree with you.  But there is a coach trying to get Ireland back off its backside at the moment - no easy feat.  Let's wait for him to decide when that time to try out Marshall, or whoever, might be.  I'd choose the 6N as the time but if next weekend is Schmidt's choosing, I'd be comfortable enough with that too.
But Schmidt will get it in the neck if any of the 'alternative' players make costly errors of judgement, not the players themselves.

GunsGerms wrote:Is Keatley not as popular as JJ because he is from Leinster originally?

No..its because he isn't very good and makes too many mistakes that cost games.

GunsGerms wrote:Is Keatley not as popular as JJ because he is from Leinster originally?

Absolutely not. Seems to be a smashing and very likable bloke - maybe a bit too nice to be a Top 10.

He just doesn't have the killer instinct that you need in a 10. I'd love to see him develop into the same kind of player with Munster as Paul Warwick was - maybe starting at 12 alongside JJ.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Is Keatley not as popular as JJ because he is from Leinster originally?

No..its because he isn't very good and makes too many mistakes that cost games.

What makes JJ a better prospect? He also makes avoidable mistakes as far as I can see.

Keatley any time I have seen him play has been very decent at getting the backline moving.

If Ireland had a terrible injury crisis at OH I wouldnt be really worried to see Keatley start at 10 for example. He will never be a perminent fixture in the Ireland squad but Id say he might pick up a handful more caps to add to his tally of two over his career.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Is Keatley not as popular as JJ because he is from Leinster originally?

No..its because he isn't very good and makes too many mistakes that cost games.

What makes JJ a better prospect? He also makes avoidable mistakes as far as I can see.

Keatley any time I have seen him play has been very decent at getting the backline moving.

Hanrahan is still a child in fairness, Keatleys not exactly a grizzled veteran but he's had plenty of game time so I can understand The spotlight being on him to perform more so than JJ.

He's also good, but not great. JJ has more potential id say.

SecretFly wrote:

JmD wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Not a follow of the forwards art then.

No point having a boobie for tat but one thing I can assure of is your view is not shared by people within Ulster rugby itself - including I suspect Luke.

Well as a prop I wouldn't say I'm a not a fan of forwards, I just have a soft spot for backs who actually play hard. The point is that Marshall is a better option than D'Arcy, and now is as good a time as any to make the switch.

Who would get it in the neck if it didn't work?  The young player trying to get an International career up and running - or - the coach Joe Schmidt, who is also trying to get an International career up and running?
I'd guess the media would know who to isolate and many of us here would follow along.  Hang Schmidt - he made the wrong decision and probably knocked back the young player's confidence levels now!

There will be a good time for a switch - I agree with you.  But there is a coach trying to get Ireland back off its backside at the moment - no easy feat.  Let's wait for him to decide when that time to try out Marshall, or whoever, might be.  I'd choose the 6N as the time but if next weekend is Schmidt's choosing, I'd be comfortable enough with that too.
But Schmidt will get it in the neck if any of the 'alternative' players make costly errors of judgement, not the players themselves.

It all depends on whether you value the autumn internationals as truly meaningful fixtures really. The 6 nations are much more high profile, among the general public at least, and I'd much rather blood new players now in order to get some international experience then go in to the 6N with it under their belts than throwing them into the starting lineup in the spring.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:D'arcy typically hasn't done great against NZ and Schmidt/Kiss will be concerned about how the midfield defence went against Samoa in the first half .... on the few occasions they had ball we got opened up.

He was fantastic in the 2nd Test against NZ last year.

Yeah but he had a poor one in November 2005.

It looks from the training pics Marshall may well start. I don't think anyone will criticise Schmidt for trying to bring through youth where appropriate. He got it spot on last week.

Good job. I know there is some debate but I think D'arcy had a decent second half last week so now its for Marshall to show what he can do here - if he can carry on his Ulster form he'll be in with a strong chance to get the nod against the ABs.

Marshall should definitely start on Saturday and I hope he nails down the 12 jersey at least until Olding takes it off him.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tommy Bowe get a lot more involved next week.One thing Schmidt was noted for at Leinster was in the weeks leading up to a big HC weekend we played very simple rugby and showed next to nothing new in our attacking play,this was usually still good enough to win at Rabo level but come the really important matches we pulled out the big guns.I hope that we will see the beginning of something similar with Ireland.

Just received confirmation from Joey, Paddy isn't on the bench, Mad-dog is warming the bench instead.
That's 1 less Ulster man , 1 more Leinster man!

Flippin hell it's Ross O'Carroll Kelly in person

PredictorofTeams wrote:Just received confirmation from Joey, Paddy isn't on the bench, Mad-dog is warming the bench instead.
That's 1 less Ulster man , 1 more Leinster man!

Love it. I reckon there will  be 13 of us by the time the Blacks come round. POC & Best the necessary tokeners.
The less contamination the better. Joe to take his team to the next and very highest level. Its a natural progression if you actually think about it.

Believe.

Gibson wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Just received confirmation from Joey, Paddy isn't on the bench, Mad-dog is warming the bench instead.
That's 1 less Ulster man , 1 more Leinster man!

Love it. I reckon there will  be 13 of us by the time the Blacks come round. POC & Best the necessary tokeners.
The less contamination the better. Joe to take his team to the next and very highest level. Its a natural progression if you actually think about it.

Believe.

If only Strauss had a clean bill of health........14

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Gibson wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Just received confirmation from Joey, Paddy isn't on the bench, Mad-dog is warming the bench instead.
That's 1 less Ulster man , 1 more Leinster man!

Love it. I reckon there will  be 13 of us by the time the Blacks come round. POC & Best the necessary tokeners.
The less contamination the better. Joe to take his team to the next and very highest level. Its a natural progression if you actually think about it.

Believe.

If only Strauss had a clean bill of health........14:guinness: 

I know Pred, I know. Breaks me cold blue heart to even think of it.

Are you Red Stag in disguise btw? He's a huge Rovers fan.

Gibson wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Gibson wrote:

PredictorofTeams wrote:Just received confirmation from Joey, Paddy isn't on the bench, Mad-dog is warming the bench instead.
That's 1 less Ulster man , 1 more Leinster man!

Love it. I reckon there will  be 13 of us by the time the Blacks come round. POC & Best the necessary tokeners.
The less contamination the better. Joe to take his team to the next and very highest level. Its a natural progression if you actually think about it.

Believe.

If only Strauss had a clean bill of health........14:guinness: 

I know Pred, I know. Breaks me cold blue heart to even think of it.

Are you Red Stag in disguise btw? He's a huge Rovers fan.

No, don't know who your talking about?

Thornleys prediction

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; Bowe, O’Driscoll, Marshall, McFadden; Sexton, Reddan; Healy, Best, Ross, O’Connell (capt), Toner, O’Mahony, O’Brien, Heaslip. Replacements: Cronin, McGrath, McCarthy, McLaughlin, Murray, Madigan, D Kearney or Henshaw.


Main one there is Reddan in for Murray and maybe Henshaw on the bench.

9 out of 15 on the field and 6 out of 7 on the bench being Leinster players?

This could be so much worser than I thought.

Reddan makes complete sense. Got us going and ripped Samoa apart with his mates around him. It was all too familiar in the last 20.  Himself and Murray should be used like Leinster use their SH's. Why not use both their different strengths?

Actually, Joe is doing it already. Scratch that one.

Thornley also predicts Reddan will start now to ensure quick ball and higher tempo. Interestingly enough he said D Kearney might make it ahead of McFadden and Marshall should get the nod ahead of Darcy.

Thornley's team is as follows:

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; Bowe, O’Driscoll, Marshall, McFadden; Sexton, Reddan; Healy, Best, Ross, O’Connell (capt), Toner, O’Mahony, O’Brien, Heaslip. Replacements: Cronin, McGrath, McCarthy, McLaughlin, Murray, Madigan, D Kearney or Henshaw

Not too shabby a lineup!

littlejohn wrote:Thornley also predicts Reddan will start now to ensure quick ball and higher tempo. Interestingly enough he said D Kearney might make it ahead of McFadden and Marshall should get the nod ahead of Darcy.

No idea why Kidney didnt use Reddan and Sexton together much more when the two played together at Leinster. Persisting with Murray and Sexton and then bringing on Rog and Reddan to play together was like a rugby political version of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Very frustrating man management driven tatical selections.

GunsGerms wrote:

littlejohn wrote:Thornley also predicts Reddan will start now to ensure quick ball and higher tempo. Interestingly enough he said D Kearney might make it ahead of McFadden and Marshall should get the nod ahead of Darcy.

No idea why Kidney didnt use Reddan and Sexton together much more when the two played together at Leinster. Persisting with Murray and Sexton and then bringing on Rog and Reddan to play together was like a rugby political version of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Very frustrating man management driven tatical selections.

Jees it used to drive me to distraction. Talk about being smacked in the face with the obvious over and over and over again whislt muttering and mumbling incoherently.

Australia team named:

Israel Folau, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Tevita Kuridrani, Matt Toomua, Nick Cummins, Quade Cooper, Will Genia, James Slipper, Stephen Moore, Sekope Kepu, Rob Simmons, James Horwill, Scott Fardy, Michael Hooper, Ben Mowen (captain)
Replacements: Tatafu Polota-Nau, Benn Robinson, Paddy Ryan, Sitaleki Timani, Liam Gill, Nic White, Christian Leali'ifano, Joe Toman

No surprises there really is there? Some very good players. Hope they dont click. Particularly their forwards.

I have a feeling Thornley's 'crystal ball' might be clouding up under the pressure of a new regime.

Wasn't his Kidney informant arrested last year and in now on death row?

I'm not so sure Thornley will be as accurate in his "just was thinking about it last night" selections as in previous years.....

If it turns out he's bang on the button again then the spy on death row is the wrong'un

GunsGerms wrote:

littlejohn wrote:Thornley also predicts Reddan will start now to ensure quick ball and higher tempo. Interestingly enough he said D Kearney might make it ahead of McFadden and Marshall should get the nod ahead of Darcy.

No idea why Kidney didnt use Reddan and Sexton together much more when the two played together at Leinster. Persisting with Murray and Sexton and then bringing on Rog and Reddan to play together was like a rugby political version of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Very frustrating man management driven tatical selections.

Because Redden is not international class (certainly not now) and if he is picked for starting on Sat then it will only help his opposite number in his rehabilitation. If it is based on his twenty minutes last week against a rapidly tiring and concussed Samoan team then well good luck with that.