All Blacks named to play Engand

First topic message reminder :

Very predictable side...
Tend to agree with the latest pundits in that this side should be too strong given the England injuries. AB's are missing no one except the sabbatical Conrad Smith.

Tough ask indeed.

http://www.allblacks.com/news/23840/All-Blacks-named-to-face-England

Starting XV:

1. Tony Woodcock (106)
2. Keven Mealamu (109)
3. Owen Franks (52)
4. Brodie Retallick (22)
5. Samuel Whitelock (49)
6. Liam Messam (27)
7. Richie McCaw - captain (122)
8. Kieran Read (59)
9. Aaron Smith (24)
10. Daniel Carter (99)
11. Julian Savea (18)
12. Ma'a Nonu (86)
13. Ben Smith (24)
14. Charles Piutau (9)
15. Israel Dagg (36)

Reserves:
16. Dane Coles (13)
17. Wyatt Crockett (22)
18. Charlie Faumuina (15)
19. Luke Romano (15)
20. Steven Luatua (9)
21. Tawera Kerr-Barlow (13)
22. Aaron Cruden (27)
23. Ryan Crotty (3)

Ka Mate is the traditional haka but the words are not specific to rugby. In 2005 the ABs pulled out Kapa o Pango against the Springboks which referenced rugby players with the silver fern. Ever since it's pulled out in special tests like Ellis Park this year where the challenge is seen greater. Last week was used because games in France usually are respecting fallen veterans. It was used last year against England so it doesn't have a 100 per cent success rate.

I don't think England can afford to play for just 40 minutes this week. They'll need to find a way to maintain their level.

I am expecting a firece game this week end. If England play like they played last year, they might have a chance of winning. BUT if they play like they have so far against Australia and Argentina they will get beat big time.

England won last year because England played a different game to what the ALL Blacks was expecting them to play.

I cannot remember any All Black team ever trying to play damage limitation in the last 15/20 minutes like they was last year.

I don't think they played damage limitation? They stayed positive. Scored a try and messam dropped the ball cold already over the line. Possibly the after effects of norovirus influencing his concentration. I reckon if he'd carried out the simple catch and dotted down NZ would've won. As I recall England brought on a raft of substitutes and lost all momentum.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I don't think they played damage limitation? They stayed positive. Scored a try and messam dropped the ball cold already over the line. Possibly the after effects of norovirus influencing his concentration. I reckon if he'd carried out the simple catch and dotted down NZ would've won.  As I recall England brought on a raft of substitutes and lost all momentum.

As I recall Burns came on and added two penalty scores and could've had a penalty try for the highly cynical trip after trying to take a quick one 5m out. Shame really.

The issue for England is twofold. The injuries are such that there seems to be a lot of discussion about players we've- or at least I've- not even heard of on the world stage, suggesting club form will somehow be reflected here. That is a huge ask.

The other is how much are England relying on last years match, and how much of it was actually due to the ABs being off at the time. I don't care either way but as Laurie pointed out 13 of that AB side are up again tonight and were also the same side that went on to topple France x 4, Oz x 3, SA x 2, Arg x2 all both home and away, where England went on to a comparatively lower quality run of matches.

Good performance vs Arg but Oz was decidedly average and things certainly 'went their way'.

England have invariably been on the back of huge thumpings by the ABs after theyve got one over us and with the injuries to key players- corbs is massive- they simply cant afford it.

This has the potential to be another...'all over in the first half hour' type match. I sure hope its not, but things dont look good for England at the moment.

Chjw131 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:I don't think they played damage limitation? They stayed positive. Scored a try and messam dropped the ball cold already over the line. Possibly the after effects of norovirus influencing his concentration. I reckon if he'd carried out the simple catch and dotted down NZ would've won.  As I recall England brought on a raft of substitutes and lost all momentum.

As I recall Burns came on and added two penalty scores and could've had a penalty try for the highly cynical trip after trying to take a quick one 5m out. Shame really.

If you recall, DC was yanked off at 65 minutes and replaced by Cruden. NZ instantly looked transformed. And Savea scored a second try. Then vunipola was sin binned for taking out Conrad smith in the air, after which he Would have had an open field to score. Then actually victor Vito and not messam dropped the ball cold over the line. England were falling apart as the likes of burns just looked way out of their depth. 5 more minutes and NZ would've likely levelled things up.

I see GE has managed to wrest back the control of his account from that reasonable-opinioned hacker who took over for a while.

Welcome back

The issue for England is twofold. The injuries are such that there seems to be a lot of discussion about players we've- or at least I've- not even heard of on the world stage, suggesting club form will somehow be reflected here. That is a huge ask.

The other is how much are England relying on last years match, and how much of it was actually due to the ABs being off at the time. I don't care either way but as Laurie pointed out 13 of that AB side are up again tonight and were also the same side that went on to topple France x 4, Oz x 3, SA x 2, Arg x2 all both home and away, where England went on to a comparatively lower quality run of matches.

Good performance vs Arg but Oz was decidedly average and things certainly 'went their way'.

England have invariably been on the back of huge thumpings by the ABs after theyve got one over us and with the injuries to key players- corbs is massive- they simply cant afford it.

This has the potential to be another...'all over in the first half hour' type match. I sure hope its not, but things dont look good for England at the moment.

Taylorman, as an Irish fan I can only dream of the confidence you NZ fans must have before a test match. It is not arrogance (ok it can be from some posters), it's just the truth!

Even when Ireland are the favourites we're still scared to death to sound too cocky in case we jinx them.

Some day perhaps if Joe can work miracles!

san wrote:

The issue for England is twofold. The injuries are such that there seems to be a lot of discussion about players we've- or at least I've- not even heard of on the world stage, suggesting club form will somehow be reflected here. That is a huge ask.

The other is how much are England relying on last years match, and how much of it was actually due to the ABs being off at the time. I don't care either way but as Laurie pointed out 13 of that AB side are up again tonight and were also the same side that went on to topple France x 4, Oz x 3, SA x 2, Arg x2 all both home and away, where England went on to a comparatively lower quality run of matches.

Good performance vs Arg but Oz was decidedly average and things certainly 'went their way'.

England have invariably been on the back of huge thumpings by the ABs after theyve got one over us and with the injuries to key players- corbs is massive- they simply cant afford it.

This has the potential to be another...'all over in the first half hour' type match. I sure hope its not, but things dont look good for England at the moment.

Taylorman, as an Irish fan I can only dream of the confidence you NZ fans must have before a test match. It is not arrogance (ok it can be from some posters), it's just the truth!

Even when Ireland are the favourites we're still scared to death to sound too cocky in case we jinx them.

Some day perhaps if Joe can work miracles!

At this point part of it comes from watching them in matches like Eden Park and Ellis park. Ellis we had every reason to lose. Its our worst ground on the planet, its at altitude, its our traditional greatest foe who themselves were on a great run of matches and also out for revenge for the red card, we had two yellows for 20 minutes of the second half, and to top all that the Boks came out firing and played fantastic rugby, scoring the 4 tries they needed to have a chance of winning the title.

To overcome all that, and going away at the end was as a fan remarkeable to say the least. When you witness matches like that it gives you that belief that possibly fans of any sporting side don't really get. They might say it, but deep down they might be a little unsure.

Sure we havnt risen to those same heights in other matches but what it showed is the AB's went in 100% up for that match like no other this year.

This England match has similar atributes. England is the only side to beat NZ since before the world cup and they not only beat us, they humiliated us. Not since probably the French in 99 have we been utterly stunned so much in one match.

The fact that 13 starters from last years match start tomorrow, and that its Hansens ONLY loss as head coach, there is ample resolve within this side to win this match so one thing is for sure, the AB's will be up for this match like no other this year, even probably Ellis.

The England injuries (we have none) not only makes it worse for England but it adds to the AB resolve in targeting the presumably weaker replacements.

So thats what the confidence is based on. I think its sound reasoning and I'll be extremely surprised if England get up and win. But if they do, last years win will have nothing on this. The AB's want this big time, we can all feel it here so lord knows how the camps feeling.

Wouldnt Steve Hansens job be the best job in the World this week?

Cyril wrote:I see GE has managed to wrest back the control of his account from that reasonable-opinioned hacker who took over for a while.

Welcome back

Just kiddin' on.

NZ were well outplayed in the first 65 minutes. Just two good spells. 45 minutes to 47 minutes when they scored two quick tries and 65-80 minutes where they finally looked composed and manufactured some chances. The rest was all England.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Wouldnt Steve Hansens job be the best job in the World this week?

I've been doing my bit for the team. Up at Kensington garden hotel gym every night leaving motivational messages on the big mirrors in the condensation. Reminding the lads how hellish my life will be should they choose to lose again and test tasting the food as it leaves the kitchen. Dodgy moments with security aside, I feel I've done everything i can.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Cyril wrote:I see GE has managed to wrest back the control of his account from that reasonable-opinioned hacker who took over for a while.

Welcome back

Just kiddin' on.

NZ were well outplayed in the first 65 minutes. Just two good spells. 45 minutes to 47 minutes when they scored two quick tries and 65-80 minutes where they finally looked composed and manufactured some chances. The rest was all England.

Aye, true enough

That's the real danger for England. A couple of good spells and you're suddenly 15-20 points down against an on-song NZ. England can't switch off for a minute (or 40 like they did vs Aus and Arg).

That match is now pointless as match to analyse on our part. We lost. Its best use is as a motivator to in this one as it was to win all the matches this year- to get back on the bike so to speak. I'd rather the boys feel they were humiliated, embarrassed so it motivates them even more.

man...They are going to come out absolutely fizzing...

Taylorman

nothing wrong with your reasoning! As I said you're not being arrogant you are confidently stating fact.

Anyway all the best against England.

Hope we stuff you the following week!   (Can't say I'm too confident about that though).

GloriousEmpire wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote: Wouldnt Steve Hansens job be the best job in the World this week?

I've been doing my bit for the team. Up at Kensington garden hotel gym every night leaving motivational messages on the big mirrors in the condensation. Reminding the lads how hellish my life will be should they choose to lose again and test tasting the food as it leaves the kitchen. Dodgy moments with security aside, I feel I've done everything i can.

To be honest I'm not sure that fills me with a confidence ...or a very dull sense of depression GE... 

aucklandlaurie wrote: Wouldnt Steve Hansens job be the best job in the World this week?

This week, yes.

Hopefully not next week though, eh?

Your onto it Taylorman.


the pact will be something like. "We will never do that to ourselves, or each other again, so long as we are on this Earth"

Revenge has got nothing to do with it.This is about attitude......truckloads of the stuff.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Your onto it Taylorman.


the pact will be something like. "We will never do that to ourselves, or each other again, so long as we are on this Earth"

Revenge has got nothing to do with it.This is about attitude......truckloads of the stuff.

So looking forward to this match it makes us losing that one last year all the more worthwhile...otherwise we wouldnt have this scenario.

Only thing I'm concerned about is whether the AB's are now getting overconfident with the English injuries...their backline really is lacking isnt it? Or is it just me?

I dont think anyone in the camp is too worried about backlines, at this stage its like preparing to play SA, you know they will come out and attack you and try and dominate you, not only must you front up to it, you must weather and repel it back.... the backs will just prepare and look to develop on what theyve been doing over the last couple of weeks...thats what I read into the lack of tinkering of the back line.

Taylorman is this game about (Revenge or Pride)

Pride to be an All Black, Proud to play for the Silver Fern?....Or is it more Revenge for losing last years game, and sporling Mc Caws sabaticle?

If it is about Revenge might they be a little over convident, complacent?

Do you honestly think, they will play the same way as last year?

Although most of the team to play on saturday is the same team that played last year. I am expecting a totaly different style of play. A more aggressive type of game.

We will just have to wait and see.

majesticimperialman wrote:Taylorman is this game about (Revenge or Pride)

Pride to be an All Black, Proud to play for the Silver Fern?....Or is it more Revenge for losing last years game, and sporling Mc Caws sabaticle?

If it is about Revenge might they be a little over convident, complacent?

Do you honestly think, they will play the same way as last year?

Although most of the team to play on saturday is the same team that played last year. I am expecting a totaly different style of play. A more aggressive type of game.

We will just have to wait and see.

Yeah maj its either all, some or none of that- to be honest I've no idea. the AB's have a way of preparing which takes care of 90% of the stuff before any match I suppose. Its in that 10% where your answer lies I know. What they use as the last screech before they all go over the wall so to speak is likely to be about some of that surely? Revenge, utu, humiliation?...or wll it just be 'like any other test- usiness as usual'.

Youre right about the agression though. That will be there in spades. We got to do that vs the Boks at Eden park so I'd expect that early on as Laurie says- sort it out up front.

But all backs know that all matches are won there eventually ( ) and if the English are on the back foot they could go through them.

But what about the reverse Maj?

What is Englands likely response or tactics here? They can guess what the ABs are going to do. What will they do any differently in this one?

majesticimperialman wrote:Taylorman is this game about (Revenge or Pride)

Pride to be an All Black, Proud to play for the Silver Fern?....Or is it more Revenge for losing last years game, and sporling Mc Caws sabaticle?

If it is about Revenge might they be a little over convident, complacent?

Do you honestly think, they will play the same way as last year?

Although most of the team to play on saturday is the same team that played last year. I am expecting a totaly different style of play. A more aggressive type of game.

We will just have to wait and see.

maj, We have no word "revenge" in our language, this is about attitude, pride, being members of a very special team, playing better than you or no one else has ever played before, worrying about what you are doing/going to do .....revenge doesnt come into it.,that would be worrying about the opposition.

Utu.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Utu.

Indeed.

Such a small word that translates into an snarling, 18-stone Kiwi running down your channel.

Cyril wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Utu.

Indeed.

Such a small word that translates into an snarling, 18-stone Kiwi running down your channel.

He was bigger in the movie...more like the Predator fulla...