Was George Groves robbed? NO. Here's Why:

by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sun 24 Nov 2013, 10:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Ok, so. Last night Groves starts like a house on fire. He’s holding the centre of the ring, looking fast with great timing, working a great jab and making Froch look slow and cumbersome. Then BANG! He puts Froch down with a great shot and Froch looks wobbly. This carries on for the next 4 rounds, Groves is out thinking and out fighting Froch. By the end of the 5th he’s 5 up plus a knock down, it’s 50-44 in Groves favour.

In the 6th he starts to deviate from his gameplan a bit, he engages Froch in a brawl. But no problem, Groves is beating Froch at his own game, for the first half of the round he can’t miss with the right hand. The second half of the round he shows the first signs of fatigue. Groves gameplan thus far has required a lot of nervous energy. He spends the last minute of the ournd backed up, trying to avoid Frochs shots. Under the radar of Jim Watts ridiculous commentary a Froch right hand went through and hurt Groves. It’s now 50-45.

Groves takes the 7th off, he works the jab but doesn’t engage Froch as much, but Froch doesn’t offer much either, Groves does enough. 51-45 Groves.

Froch has more success in the 8th, he lands with more telling shots for the first time in the fight, and Groves is very clearly starting to slow down. Frochs round, 51-46.

The 9th round comes, Froch appears to be growing into the fight a bit, his superior conditioning and durability are beginning to favour him. He lands a good right which hurts Groves. This is followed up by an attack on the ropes where he lands several more flush shots. The ref stops it. Now, make no mistake, Groves had the right to carry on and show his mettle, he wasn’t staggered or knocked down. It was definitely a premature stoppage and very, very harsh on Groves. But was it a robbery? Because a robbery means a fighter was denied CERTAIN VICTORY by poor reffing/judging. Was Groves on course for certain victory? Let’s consider it;

Froch was on course to win the 9th, which would’ve made it 51-47 with 3 rounds to go. Is it unfeasible that Froch, now looking the stronger and fitter of the two could’ve won the last 3 rounds? Is it unfeasible that he could’ve put Groves down during those rounds? Experience would’ve made Groves take a knee at the point of the stoppage. Froch could certainly have taken it to a very close decision. He could also have knocked Groves out. Froch had taken Groves best shots and was still there, growing into the fight. Groves was slowing down, Froch had him in trouble and it’s certainly not unfeasible that Froch could’ve forced a more legit stoppage in the 9th.

I wanted Groves to win. I was outraged when the ref stopped it. It was harsh on Groves who’d boxed so well in the first half. I wanted to see if Groves could weather the storm and see the fight out, I wanted to see what he was made of. He was harshly stopped, but I wouldn’t say he was robbed as he was NOT on course for certain victory. The fight was swinging back into the balance and his opponent is a very hard, durable man with superior conditioning and knock out power, it was gonna be a tough last 4 rounds for Groves, there’s every chance he wouldn’t have survived or that he’d have been clawed back on the cards. Harsh decision? YES. Poor reffing? ABSOLUTELY. Robbed of certain victory? DEFINITELY NOT.

Also just to conclude, for those saying there won’t be a rematch because Groves has Frochs number and Froch/Hearn will bottle it, I dispute that. Anyone calling the fight would’ve said Groves would start better and rack up the early rounds, with Froch – a known slow starter – coming into it later. That is exactly what happened. What we didn’t expect was just how well Groves would box in the first half or that he would deck Froch. But Froch is a very durable, very well conditioned fighter who will outlast Groves down the stretch and give him nightmares as he slows down. Also Groves may now have played his aces and lost the element of surprise that stunned Froch last night. I’d love to see Groves turn him over, but if there was a rematch I’d bet on a similar (but hopefully more satisfying) outcome.

Shoot me down in flames at will…

by catchweight Sun 24 Nov 2013, 4:58 pm

Butlin was also completely mismatched. Absolutely no chance of winning. Literally all that was going to happen by continuing was a beating. Badly cut, out on his feet, heavily floored and up against a guy that was going to hammer him - Foster sends him back out because Joshua needs the target practice and he is the house fighter.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 4:59 pm

catchweight wrote:Its the old reliable. Have one "normal" scorecard and then two judges who have "an off night" when the SD comes in. Then say "these things happen".

More and more of these off nights happening in UK.

I know they announced the scores but does anyone know which 4 rounds they gave to Froch. He probably won the first 10-9.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 4:59 pm

Rowley wrote:Yes it is as it shows you are still in possession of your mental faculties

no it doesn't, not when you are bobbing into another punch. Just because Groves was being brave it does not mean he was not on a one way ticket to KO city... and you dont have to be unconcious to have it stopped, you just need to be appearing to be taking more punishment than you need to... 5 more seconds and Groves would have been done... 10 tops.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:00 pm

he probably started leading 12 nil on the cards

by Rowley Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:02 pm

Think I would have more belief in the referees just being incompetence if their incompetence ever benefitted the away fighter. Remember seeing Enzo Mac being allowed to continue against Frenkel despite being completely out on his feet. I spoke to a hell of a lot of people both in the venue and after the fight and did not speak to anyone who agreed with some of the views being put forward on here, to a man everyone though the stoppage was premature.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:03 pm

tunes666 wrote:
Rowley wrote:Yes it is as it shows you are still in possession of your mental faculties
no it doesn't, not when you are bobbing into another punch. Just because Groves was being brave it does not mean he was not on a one way ticket to KO city... and you dont have to be unconcious to have it stopped, you just need to be appearing to be taking more punishment than you need to... 5 more seconds and Groves would have been done... 10 tops.

Got the lottery numbers for next week?

by catchweight Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:03 pm

The crowd was totally pro Froch for the fight and he got booed out of the place at the end. That says it all about what people thought of the stoppage.

by Rowley Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:04 pm

tunes666 wrote: 5 more seconds and Groves would have been done... 10 tops.

Pure speculation on your part, nothing more, as Jack has said you don't appear to be the most objective of chaps when it comes to Groves. Putting aside whatever feelings you may have to Groves, do you think had the boot been on the other foot Froch would have been stopped in the same circumstances?

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:04 pm

Rowley wrote:Think I would have more belief in the referees just being incompetence if their incompetence ever benefitted the away fighter. Remember seeing Enzo Mac being allowed to continue against Frenkel despite being completely out on his feet. I spoke to a hell of a lot of people both in the venue and after the fight and did not speak to anyone who agreed with some of the views being put forward on here, to a man everyone though the stoppage was premature.

Sounded a good atmosphere? Also looked to be some trouble in the crowd. Anything to report?

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:06 pm

It doesnt count jeff because Froch is a teenage mutant ninja turtle and would never be in that situation except for several times in the fight.

by catchweight Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:06 pm

What about Cleverly in his last fight? He was knocked bandy and the ref practically carried him back to his corner. Can you imagine if it was Kovalov that ould happen? The fight would be over quicker than you could shout home cooking.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:06 pm

Tunes, you are talking complete crap i'm sorry, stop embarrassing yourself further.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:07 pm

Rowley wrote:
tunes666 wrote: 5 more seconds and Groves would have been done... 10 tops.
Pure speculation on your part, nothing more, as Jack has said you don't appear to be the most objective of chaps when it comes to Groves. Putting aside whatever feelings you may have to Groves, do you think had the boot been on the other foot Froch would have been stopped in the same circumstances?

Froch was in a far worse state in the first, where he got up and sagged into the ropes and was on real shaky ground. Catch weight pointed out the blatant double standards in the Joshua example he uploaded.

by Rowley Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:08 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Rowley wrote:Think I would have more belief in the referees just being incompetence if their incompetence ever benefitted the away fighter. Remember seeing Enzo Mac being allowed to continue against Frenkel despite being completely out on his feet. I spoke to a hell of a lot of people both in the venue and after the fight and did not speak to anyone who agreed with some of the views being put forward on here, to a man everyone though the stoppage was premature.
Sounded a good atmosphere? Also looked to be some trouble in the crowd. Anything to report?

There were bits and bobs but nothing worse than usual. Was a great atmosphere though.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:13 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Is it just me or were you watching a different fight strongback?!

I saw Groves take 3 of maybe 10 punches in the last 30 seconds of that fight.

Well then maybe you need glasses. As he very cleary took more than 3 shots.... he took about 6 when up against the ropes.. by the way when you get hit on the temple it still hurts.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:13 pm

Apparently people were telling Froch they wanted a refund. Maybe a bit harsh on Froch but I was certainly left feeling short changed after that ending and such a poor undercard.

I really don't like Quigg or Gallagher either. Blatant ducking of Frampton which is again robbing the fans of the fight we all want to see.

by **Seanusarrilius** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:15 pm

catchweight wrote:What about Cleverly in his last fight? He was knocked bandy and the ref practically carried him back to his corner. Can you imagine if it was Kovalov that ould happen? The fight would be over quicker than you could shout home cooking.

haha, true. But it is hard to imagine Clev knocking anybody bandy

by Strongback Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:15 pm

Want to hear some more double standards.

Listen to Barry Hearn's incredulity at Hearn's man Paul McClusky getting stopped by the ref against Khan.

These Hearn's are worse than Wazza.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:16 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tunes, you are talking complete crap i'm sorry, stop embarrassing yourself further.

Its cool thanks, I dont feel embarrassed at all, just pointing out stupidity.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:17 pm

I haven't seen you pointing out your own posts so you can't be.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:18 pm

tunes666 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tunes, you are talking complete crap i'm sorry, stop embarrassing yourself further.
Its cool thanks, I dont feel embarrassed at all, just pointing out stupidity.

Well you've been posting on here for a while - I'd say we've all pretty much sussed what it is by now

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:19 pm

bottom line, the stoppage has worked great for Groves as now all the Groves fans can say he was robbed, rather than if the fight had gone on 1o more seconds and he would have been stopped with less controversy.... thats the only shame really.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:20 pm

Or he'd have survived and won and would now be in line to fight the actual champion supermiddleweight.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:23 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tunes, you are talking complete crap i'm sorry, stop embarrassing yourself further.
Its cool thanks, I dont feel embarrassed at all, just pointing out stupidity.
Well you've been posting on here for a while - I'd say we've all pretty much sussed what it is by now

and many people say that Groves was not in trouble, like I say, stupidity is not always aware of its presence..

by catchweight Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:26 pm

Yeah all the 20,000 "Groves fans" in the arena who smelled BS. All of them deluded in comparison to the resident psychics who know what would have happened. Groves got real lucky. Even Froch fans know the ref was BS. Their reaction after the fight said it. Its rare you get a crowd so pro one fighter at the start to completely change. If this happened in a Rocky movie people would say its fantasy nonsense.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:26 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Or he'd have survived and won and would now be in line to fight the actual champion supermiddleweight.

But he was not surviving at the time of the stoppage he was getting smashed.. and was trying to run away from Froch as the reff stopped it.... So common sense says that he was about to get hit with more big shots.

So if people want to assume he would have survived then I guess that's better than excepting the fight was turning and he lost. Like I say, the Reff did Groves a favor IMO.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:28 pm

catchweight wrote:Yeah all the 20,000 "Groves fans" in the arena who smelled BS. All of them deluded in comparison to the resident psychics who know what would have happened. Groves got real lucky. Even Froch fans know the ref was BS. Their reaction after the fight said it. Its rare you get a crowd so pro one fighter at the start to completely change. If this happened in a Rocky movie people would say its fantasy nonsense.

many people booed but there was a fair few who also saw where the stoppage was coming from even though admitted it was too soon... all three paper journalists at the end all admitted that it was a bit soon but also that Froch would more than likely done more damage if the reff did not come in...

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:29 pm

Froch, Hearns and Tunes are the only ones who think it was a good stoppage. Must be true then.

by Rowley Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:30 pm

Think the issue is tunes your whole position is based on the assumption Groves wad in sufficient trouble that his impending stoppage was a foregone conclusion. One does have to question if this is the case why has pretty much everyone including the 20,000 in the arena been outrage by the stoppage.

Would seem to be two options. The first is none of us know what we are talking about and you are right. The second is you are overstating the danger groves was in. I know which possibility I am happier with.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:30 pm

tunes666 wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:Or he'd have survived and won and would now be in line to fight the actual champion supermiddleweight.
But he was not surviving at the time of the stoppage he was getting smashed.. and was trying to run away from Froch as the reff stopped it.... So common sense says that he was about to get hit with more big shots.

So if people want to assume he would have survived then I guess that's better than excepting the fight was turning and he lost. Like I say, the Reff did Groves a favor IMO.

Common sense tells we have no way of telling the future, he might have weathered the storm, he might not have done, we simply do not know.

by RanjitPatel Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:33 pm

Pure conjecture to say what would have happened in the next ten seconds. We'll never know. Interesting reading Paddy Fitzpatrick's interview on sky sports. He says he will put a game plan together for the rematch for Groves to stop Froch in 4 rounds.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:33 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Froch, Hearns and Tunes are the only ones who think it was a good stoppage. Must be true then.

Im only responsible for what I actually say, not what you understand! lol

(note the stupidity thing)

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:34 pm

tunes666 wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tunes, you are talking complete crap i'm sorry, stop embarrassing yourself further.
Its cool thanks, I dont feel embarrassed at all, just pointing out stupidity.
Well you've been posting on here for a while - I'd say we've all pretty much sussed what it is by now
and many people say that Groves was not in trouble, like I say, stupidity is not always aware of its presence..

Stop blowing your own trumpet - we've got the point.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:36 pm

RanjitPatel wrote:Pure conjecture to say what would have happened in the next ten seconds. We'll never know. Interesting reading Paddy Fitzpatrick's interview on sky sports. He says he will put a game plan together for the rematch for Groves to stop Froch in 4 rounds.

So give me a guess, go look at it and imagine as Groves pushing Carl and slumps to his side, just before the reff grabs him, what do you see happening? Carl is coming in more smelling blood having landed about 5 clean shots to the head... I agree that the Reff should have at least let Groves fall over and get 10 seconds, or take a couple more punches and see if he could retaliate... But for me there is no doubt what was going to happen.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:38 pm

tunes666 wrote:
RanjitPatel wrote:Pure conjecture to say what would have happened in the next ten seconds. We'll never know. Interesting reading Paddy Fitzpatrick's interview on sky sports. He says he will put a game plan together for the rematch for Groves to stop Froch in 4 rounds.

So give me a guess, go look at it and imagine as Groves pushing Carl and slumps to his side, just before the reff grabs him, what do you see happening? Carl is coming in more smelling blood having landed about 5 clean shots to the head... I agree that the Reff should have at least let Groves fall over and get 10 seconds, or take a couple more punches and see if he could retaliate... But for me there is no doubt what was going to happen.

You and Froch are the only ones who are 'certain' about what was going to happen. Froch is an idiot.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:39 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:
tunes666 wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Tunes, you are talking complete crap i'm sorry, stop embarrassing yourself further.
Its cool thanks, I dont feel embarrassed at all, just pointing out stupidity.
Well you've been posting on here for a while - I'd say we've all pretty much sussed what it is by now
and many people say that Groves was not in trouble, like I say, stupidity is not always aware of its presence..
Stop blowing your own trumpet - we've got the point.

I think there are a few trumpets being blown.

by RanjitPatel Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:40 pm

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but it is just you're opinion as we will never know because the ref jumped in.
For all you know Groves could have moved to the other side of the ring and Froch could have taken a breather after expending the energy through the last burst. Pure guesswork, as it is in your case.

by Strongback Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:43 pm

I think Froch was going to boss the last 3 rounds if Groves continued. Reading the way the two fighters were boxing I don't think this is an off the wall opinion.

That doesn't mean the stoppage was ok. The stoppage was a disgrace.

by tunes666 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:46 pm

RanjitPatel wrote:That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but it is just you're opinion as we will never know because the ref jumped in.
For all you know Groves could have moved to the other side of the ring and Froch could have taken a breather after expending the energy through the last burst. Pure guesswork, as it is in your case.

well fair enough, I just think Froches body lingo looked quite happy. Froch does not move fast through the fight, he coasts which is why in the latter part of a fight he has his power and stamina intact... Even against Ward he ruffed Ward up in the last two rounds... So for me Froch was just going to keep hunting him down and would have stopped him on the next set of ropes he pinned him at.

But yes this is just my opinion. I am just fed up of Groves fans making out he just got a clip on the nose or something, where the guy took about 10 shots to the head, 5 consecutive ones against the ropes...

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 24 Nov 2013, 5:47 pm

tunes666 wrote:
RanjitPatel wrote:That's your opinion and you're entitled to it but it is just you're opinion as we will never know because the ref jumped in.
For all you know Groves could have moved to the other side of the ring and Froch could have taken a breather after expending the energy through the last burst. Pure guesswork, as it is in your case.
well fair enough, I just think Froches body lingo looked quite happy. Froch does not move fast through the fight, he coasts which is why in the latter part of a fight he has his power and stamina intact... Even against Ward he ruffed Ward up in the last two rounds... So for me Froch was just going to keep hunting him down and would have stopped him on the next set of ropes he pinned him at.

But yes this is just my opinion. I am just fed up of Groves fans making out he just got a clip on the nose or something, where the guy took about 10 shots to the head, 5 consecutive ones against the ropes...

by Knowsit17 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 6:23 pm

Nobody can justifiably claim Groves was robbed of the win no, that's skimming too far ahead in time. But he was robbed of a fair opportunity to test Froch all the way and potentially win. The stoppage will mar the win for Froch, in my view it is soured at any rate if only just for the fact that the quality of the fight didn't merit such a complacent stoppage.

I've admired Froch's attitude and response in the past but the only way he can uphold full respect is by giving Groves a rematch soon imo.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 7:44 pm

Froch wasn't rocked at all in that fight bar the knockdown....

That's why he was throwing out a weak jab for the majority of it!!!!

Some people on here make me laugh.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 24 Nov 2013, 7:50 pm

Groves does a brilliant interview on IFilmTV where he says the reason it got stopped is because the ref bought into the hype that Froch has an iron jaw and he has a glass one. Couldn't agree more. Froch landed a right hand and a left hook clean in the final exchange, don't have a clue where these 10 clean punches came from.

Its not only a shame for Groves, its also a shame for Froch, to take that bad of a beating and come back to stop your opponent would have been sensational. Unfortunately the ref robbed him of that as well.

None of us know what would have happened and after a great fight all we can talk about is the controversy.

As a big fan of both fighters, I would be skeptical about a rematch, purely because of the clean headshots Froch took in that fight, he can't keep taking them.

by Nico the gman Sun 24 Nov 2013, 9:37 pm

Great fight spoilt by awful refereeing, Howard Foster was shocking from round 1,continually stopped and broke up the fight,warned Groves for so called use of the head when it was nothing, then warned Froch when Groves turned his back on him instead of the other way round.
At one stage I commented well before the stoppage that Foster must think the crowd have come to see him instead of the fighters.

The stoppage of the fight was awful, had Groves continued and been hit with another 2 or 3 big punches and wasn't firing back then no one could have complained but was never given that opportunity, I feel however that Froch was coming on strong and had taken the best Groves could offer.

Groves at 26 looks a nailed on world champion, great power,do I think Groves beats Froch in a rematch,no, McCracken will work with Froch on avoiding those big right hands Groves throws, different fight 2nd time round.

Its about time Jim Watt retired, Watt and the other clown commentating with him, had Froch beat after round 2 both got on my bloody nerves,spouting constant rubbish.

by Strongback Sun 24 Nov 2013, 10:19 pm

You only have to watch Jim Watt's interview with Groves at the weigh in to know he likes Groves a lot.

by hogey Mon 25 Nov 2013, 12:38 am

I think the referee ruined it with a terrible stoppage and I honestly think Froch was as tired as Groves so I douubt that attack would have finished Groves off. Too be honest no matter how many times I watch it I cant see a badly hurt Groves just a fighter with his hands up clearing his head after taking a good shot. I saw nothing in he previous rounds to support the fact that Froch was taking over in fact in the previous rounds Groves was still bouncing big shots off Frochs head and Froch was just charging forward and missing with fairly wild attacks. Hope theres a rematch in which I expect Groves will box Frochs ears off and engage far less now he knows just how limited and vulnerable Froch is to his speed.

by 3fingers Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:44 am

Tunes...

Khan was in more trouble in the tenth against Maidana than Groves was against Froch, and what happened? He ran for three rounds and got the decision. Nothing to say Groves wouldn't have done the same. Groves is a perfectly capable runner. This is boxing and no outcome is certain, despite what you might think.

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 25 Nov 2013, 5:04 am

3fingers wrote:Tunes...

Khan was in more trouble in the tenth against Maidana than Groves was against Froch, and what happened? He ran for three rounds and got the decision. Nothing to say Groves wouldn't have done the same. Groves is a perfectly capable runner. This is boxing and no outcome is certain, despite what you might think.

Tunes thinks that Khan orchestrated petersons failed drug test - I doubt you are going to get much joy.

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