The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Ireland moving forward

+40
Rory_Gallagher
SecretFly
theslosty
profitius
marty2086
rodders
Notch
GunsGerms
Jenifer McLadyboy
KiaRose
Gretgael1
Artful_Dodger
majesticimperialman
lostinwales
Hookisms and Hyperbole
wolfball
slane
2bFair
thebandwagonsociety
JayMaster3000
Engine#4
funnyExiledScot
GloriousEmpire
asoreleftshoulder
pete (buachaill on eirne)
whocares
Taylorman
clivemcl
geoff999rugby
The Great Aukster
Standulstermen
LeinsterFan4life
Biltong
MrsP
gleesonisgod
Scratch
Nachos Jones
Scrumpy
Golden
Slats85
44 posters

Page 1 of 10 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Ireland moving forward

Post by Slats85 Mon 25 Nov 2013, 1:16 pm

Feel for the Irish boys after yesterday but a few things stood out for me:

We didn't score in 2nd half so I find it hard to say we deserved to win. We still struggle to close out games similar to the French game at Croke Park. I feel these issues have a lot to do with self belief which I think we as nation have struggled with for a long time in sport if I'm being honest. I feel this is JS big challenge with this team and if he can get them believing and producing performances like yesterday on a consistent basis then we'll do some damage in 6 nations and world cups.

Ireland are a different team when they keep ball in hand and don't kick the ball away constantly. This was a really pleasing part of yesterday with all the players backing themselves and each other to keep the ball in hand to put the ABs under pressure. This is without doubt the way forward as shown by the ABs themselves. Encouraging signs from the new coaching set up.

The effort and commitment yesterday was immense. It was the sort of display that made you proud to be Irish. SOB, Healy, POC and Heaslip in particular produced some of the best individual performances I've seen in a long time.

Congrats to NZ. Still the benchmark for how rugby should be played.

Also great to see the new Lansdowne Road rocking.


Slats85

Posts : 1
Join date : 2013-11-25

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Golden Mon 25 Nov 2013, 1:18 pm

It was good to see us making breaks through the middle again instead of just shovelling it out wide and kicking it away.

Actually having a game plan now should help with the confidence issues.

Golden

Posts : 3368
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by theslosty Mon 25 Nov 2013, 1:57 pm

The forwards were immense yesterday and it was great to see those who had copped much of the criticism last week turn out be our strongest performers this week (Kearney, Heaslip, POC).
I don't know if there is a fitness issue but there is most definitely a second half issue which we need to address to get back up there with Wales and England.
Sexton's form is still a slight worry and I hope he is back to his usual self by February. Ross and D'arcy both played well yesterday but we need to have installed replacements for them by the end of the 6N. However, I was worried about our depth at hooker after Best but Cronin's performance gives me hope. Toner I don't think is good enough at this level, but Ryan should be back come the 6N.
The Leinster-esque fluency in the backs hasn't quite arrived yet, yesterday's backline was probably a bit short on pace but we have plenty of exciting players who didn't feature yesterday.

Who would you like to see be given a game or two at 13 before BOD retires, I know Payne is on the horizon but does anyone else think Fitzgerald might have the skillset if he can stay injury-free? Cave would be perfect if he was just a bit quicker.
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1106
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:06 pm

Ireland moving forward? Yes, a very good idea. Keep it up.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:09 pm

The beginning of the second half of this game was the same as the beginning of the second half of the Australian game.  A return to pedestrian caginess and lack of grim reaper bite - allowing the opposition to say 'we're not going to be put to the sword here - they don't have the legs.... let's chase that score down'.  Wales did it, Australia did it, New Zealand did it - and we keep doing it.

We simply have to make teams fear the second half as much as the first.... and that's an awful lot of work now on those stamina levels that need to be up at the right levels to endure two halves of 'Madness'.


Last edited by SecretFly on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Golden Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:09 pm

Fitzpatrick did well, i think he should be our starting tight head come the 6 nations.

With Gilroy, Zebo and Earls to come back in we have some depth in the back 3 now that McFadden and Kearney jnr have shown they can perform at this level. Also Fitz is back in the reckoning.

Golden

Posts : 3368
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Scrumpy Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:11 pm

Ireland moving forward?

Umm don't get me wrong it was a good performance vs NZ, but NZ were at the end of a very long season.

I'm not knocking them but don't jump ahead of yourselfs just yet.
Scrumpy
Scrumpy

Posts : 4217
Join date : 2012-11-26
Location : Aquae Sulis

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Scrumpy Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:11 pm

Ireland moving forward?

Umm don't get me wrong it was a good performance vs NZ, but NZ were at the end of a very long season.

I'm not knocking them but don't jump ahead of yourselfs just yet.
Scrumpy
Scrumpy

Posts : 4217
Join date : 2012-11-26
Location : Aquae Sulis

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Sin é Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:14 pm

Golden wrote:Fitzpatrick did well, i think he should be our starting tight head come the 6 nations.

With Gilroy, Zebo and Earls to come back in we have some depth in the back 3 now that McFadden and Kearney jnr have shown they can perform at this level.  Also Fitz is back in the reckoning.
Just great news. Delighted for him. Hope he can stay fit now because he is a class act.
Sin é
Sin é

Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:15 pm

Scrumpy wrote:Ireland moving forward?

Umm don't get me wrong it was a good performance vs NZ, but NZ were at the end of a very long season.

I'm not knocking them but don't jump ahead of yourselfs just yet.
Ireland moving forward means looking at where we are and where we want to be..... it's an analysis, not a pat on the back.  But if a side can pat itself on the back after the few years we've endured then it's Ireland.  Patting youself on the back says, nice stuff, now lets see where it all either continues to grow or slides away again.

England took comfort from their game against New Zealand.  If they at 3rd can say 'moving forward', then certainly us at 7th or 8th can say the same.


Last edited by SecretFly on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Nachos Jones Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:16 pm

theslosty wrote:
I don't know if there is a fitness issue but there is most definitely a second half issue which we need to address to get back up there with Wales and England.
I don't think that it is a fitness issue as such but a match fitness under such intensity that Ireland lack. The AB's kept up the intensity the whole 80+mins and Ireland just couldn't live with that.

I am very happy at the approach of the game yesterday but am still cautious, Ireland has had performances like this many times but have yet to go on any sort of run.

Nachos Jones

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:19 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
theslosty wrote:
I don't know if there is a fitness issue but there is most definitely a second half issue which we need to address to get back up there with Wales and England.
I don't think that it is a fitness issue as such but a match fitness under such intensity that Ireland lack. The AB's kept up the intensity the whole 80+mins and Ireland just couldn't live with that.

I am very happy at the approach of the game yesterday but am still cautious, Ireland has had performances like this many times but have yet to go on any sort of run.
Match fitness or seasonal fitness - or even a more astute scientific game management of fitness levels through a game itself - as I suspect is often the New Zealand way. Whichever it is - fitness is an issue when we meet sides that have 80 minute lungs. As I keep saying, it's more than physical energy that fitness gives you - it allows you to continue to think straight and right.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Nachos Jones Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:
theslosty wrote:
I don't know if there is a fitness issue but there is most definitely a second half issue which we need to address to get back up there with Wales and England.
I don't think that it is a fitness issue as such but a match fitness under such intensity that Ireland lack. The AB's kept up the intensity the whole 80+mins and Ireland just couldn't live with that.

I am very happy at the approach of the game yesterday but am still cautious, Ireland has had performances like this many times but have yet to go on any sort of run.
Match fitness or seasonal fitness - or even a more astute scientific game management of fitness levels through a game itself - as I suspect is often the New Zealand way.  Whichever it is - fitness is an issue when we meet sides that have 80 minute lungs.  As I keep saying, it's more than physical energy that fitness gives you - it allows you to continue to think straight and right.
Firstly, great to see you're still on here fly, always enjoyed reading your thoughts.

I have no idea what the issue is in regards to fitness but Ireland don't seem to be able to maintain such intensity for more than 40-60mins. It is something that I think Schmidt will look into though.

Nachos Jones

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by profitius Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:38 pm

3 games into the Schmidt reign and things are looking up. We saw signs of the Schmidt style of play which is no surprisesince it was mostly Leinster players out there. Next I'd like to see Schmidt intergrate new players intot he squad. The injured players along with the likes of Henderson, Olding, Marmion, Moore, Hanrahan etc. He'll probably wait until the summer tour (where ever that is??) to implement many of these changes and I'd say the 6 nations could be a last hurrah for a few members of the squad like Boss, Reddan etc.


The most impressive thing about the AIs was how clinical Ireland were at converting scoring chancs to points. The attack is much better than under Kidney (that was Kidneys biggest weakness as Ireland boss) and I think that will see ticket sales improve now that the entertainment has improved.


Scrumpy wrote:Ireland moving forward?

Umm don't get me wrong it was a good performance vs NZ, but NZ were at the end of a very long season.

I'm not knocking them but don't jump ahead of yourselfs just yet.

NZ finished stronger so it wasn't effcting them too much.
profitius
profitius

Posts : 4726
Join date : 2012-01-25

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:38 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
Firstly, great to see you're still on here fly, always enjoyed reading your thoughts.

I have no idea what the issue is in regards to fitness but Ireland don't seem to be able to maintain such intensity for more than 40-60mins. It is something that I think Schmidt will look into though.
Ah thanks for that Nachos, some here would say I'm on a bad dose of delirious drugs most of the time Laugh   

I think one thing that Schmidt might quickly advise is a complete relaxation of, or a complete ending to, the Cottonwool theory.  D'arcy has said that being an International and being cocooned in cotton wool for stints of the club year is counterproductive to him personally as he feel he needs to play all the time to sustain his levels of readiness to play at the highest.  And I'm only using him as an example.

So maybe first things first would be the ending of keeping players in cottonwool.  Firstly, it would get those players out and playing more often in real games, it might even help Provinces themselves in an increasingly competitive Pro12

...but it would also allow for a more meaningful and genuine selection process come International time as 'lesser' players would be more able to prove themselves to be in better International form than their International 'betters'.  And the 'better' would have to prove themselves more often - rising the fitness levels of both the 'lesser' and 'better' players.

I'm not suggesting no rests - but only less structured 'rest' periods. Let coaches decide when their players might need rests.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Nachos Jones Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:50 pm

Aahh the cottonwool theory, the scourge of Irish rugby Wink
That is a very valid point and i am certain that Schmidt will stop that one immediately.

I have to say as well, what a game Cronin had yesterday. I was really worried when he came on but he was very solid, even sidestepping a back Shocked 

Nachos Jones

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Golden Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:54 pm

Mike Ross beat a defender too according to the stats  Shocked 

Who are we touring next summer? Its not listed under the fixtures on the IRFU website.

Golden

Posts : 3368
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Notch Mon 25 Nov 2013, 2:55 pm

Argentina I think.
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Golden Mon 25 Nov 2013, 3:00 pm

Cheers Notch!

Golden

Posts : 3368
Join date : 2011-09-06

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 3:02 pm

Cronin is a potent resource to add inches to back plays.

But then, Best was an animal when he was on.  When fire is in our belly we're a beautiful sight of meaness, aggression and just a power of Nature...BUT...when our batteries go, we can sometimes implode as violently as an exploding star.

We hung in there for this one but it really needs attention now from Schmidt and crew.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Nachos Jones Mon 25 Nov 2013, 3:49 pm

If truth be known, i would have been happy if Ireland got within 3 scores of the AB's. That was some performance yesterday.

That said, i do hope that its the last time we see D'Arcy in green, played a great game yesterday but his great games are too far and few between these days. Excellent servant but his day has come.

Nachos Jones

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Scratch Mon 25 Nov 2013, 6:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:Ireland moving forward?  Yes, a very good idea.  Keep it up.
except less when the opposition is taking a conversion

Scratch

Posts : 1980
Join date : 2013-11-10

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 6:57 pm

Scratch wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Ireland moving forward?  Yes, a very good idea.  Keep it up.
except less when the opposition is taking a conversion
Correct. Well spotted.

Although I remember the trick working very well for little Stringer once upon a time against Australia. He just ran up and took James O'Connor's ball (yes only one) from him- the cheeky little divil.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by gleesonisgod Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:11 pm

Great performance from the forwards and the back were quite good defensively most of the time but I think if we had had more confidence to go out the back line we definitely would have finished them off earlier.

On paper it was a poor back line but when we did have any sort of attack they looked decent.

With Marshall, Zebo, Gilroy, Olding, Earls, JJ, Madigan, Jackson, to see more game time I think we're looking very good for the 6N, although 13 still remains a worry.

Fitzpatrick I thought was excellent when he came on. Add him, and one of Ryan, Tuohy, or Henderson to the front five and we're laughing. Also really want to see Moore take the no.3 spot at Leinster.

Just hope Schmidt doesn't keep up this Leinster looking team for the 6N.

gleesonisgod

Posts : 243
Join date : 2012-02-21

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by MrsP Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Scratch wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Ireland moving forward?  Yes, a very good idea.  Keep it up.
except less when the opposition is taking a conversion
Correct.  Well spotted.  

Although I remember the trick working very well for little Stringer once upon a time against Australia.  He just ran up and took James O'Connor's ball (yes only one) from him- the cheeky little divil.
Was that in a BaaBaas game? Not sure he would have got away with it in any other game?

MrsP

Posts : 9207
Join date : 2011-09-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Notch Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:21 pm

I really want to see Martin Moore and Dan Tuohy keep their form up and force the national coaches to have a look at them, both add a bit more power to a fairly lightweight tight five but I suspect both will be understudies to guys who are perceived to be better at the set pieces.

Martin Moore in particular I'm quite excited about. Not only has he scrummaged fairly well, he knows how to use that size and power he has.
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:22 pm

MrsP wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Scratch wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Ireland moving forward?  Yes, a very good idea.  Keep it up.
except less when the opposition is taking a conversion
Correct.  Well spotted.  

Although I remember the trick working very well for little Stringer once upon a time against Australia.  He just ran up and took James O'Connor's ball (yes only one) from him- the cheeky little divil.
Was that in a BaaBaas game? Not sure he would have got away with it in any other game?
Well, we've seen pretty directly that you wouldn't be let do it in any other game - but he was legal, he was within his rights and he had the ball(s) to do it.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Biltong Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:32 pm

Win or no win, I was impressed with Ireland yesterday, ultimately I thought the subs from Nz made the difference.

I thought it was a big blow to Ireland when Rory Best went off with his injury, is it a broken arm?

You backrow did damn well especially in the first half.

Cian Healy for me personally is one of the best, if not the best loose heads in world rugby.

It is important for Ireland to step up from here, they have had a few average Six Nation tournaments and haven't won the Six Nations for some time.

But if they can take the attitude they displayed in this match forward it will go a long way in improving their Six Nation performance.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Notch Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:38 pm

Biltong wrote:I thought it was a big blow to Ireland when Rory Best went off with his injury, is it a broken arm?
Yes Crying or Very sad 

He's targeting being back for Ulsters games in Round 5 and 6 of the Heineken Cup in January. Hopefully he'll make that goal, should be involved in the Six Nations. It was a big blow to lose him even though Cronin played very well- Cronin coming on that early deprived us of another impact substitute in the second half.
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 7:44 pm

Biltong wrote:Win or no win, I was impressed with Ireland yesterday, ultimately I thought the subs from Nz made the difference.

I thought it was a big blow to Ireland when Rory Best went off with his injury, is it a broken arm?

You backrow did damn well especially in the first half.

Cian Healy for me personally is one of the best, if not the best loose heads in world rugby.

It is important for Ireland to step up from here, they have had a few average Six Nation tournaments and haven't won the Six Nations for some time.

But if they can take the attitude they displayed in this match forward it will go a long way in improving their Six Nation performance.
Yes, Bilt, a fracture... which I'm told by medical people is a break using another word.

Yes... it was a blow and I felt that might disrupt a fragile Ireland enough to allow the ABs to get back into a dominant rhythm of their own.  But I was pleased that Ireland didn't fall apart.  Schmidt has had so little time but already we know the game he wants to drive with and, for that at least, we're happy for now - as all along we've been saying that a game driven by an aggressive attacking tempo is the game Irish players (any players really) respond to emotionally.

But we need to work on a lot of stuff to perfect it all better and we'll need more games to grow confidence.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Notch Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:31 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25088949?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Rory Best interview. The fact that Rory Best got up and hit another ruck immediately after he broke his arm says a lot about the kind of player he is. Same thing as last time we played the BNZs in Dublin, he got up with a fractured jaw bone and straight back into the defensive line.

He's 'physically brave'. I do wish he'd stop getting injured on international duty though!
Notch
Notch
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 25635
Join date : 2011-02-10
Age : 36
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:42 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:If truth be known, i would have been happy if Ireland got within 3 scores of the AB's. That was some performance yesterday.

That said, i do hope that its the last time we see D'Arcy in green, played a great game yesterday but his great games are too far and few between these days. Excellent servant but his day has come.
oh Jeez will you give over. His day has clearly not come after that performance. Isn't it good that we have competition for the 12 jersey? Marshall will be first choice but let him earn it.

LeinsterFan4life

Posts : 6102
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 34
Location : Meath

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Standulstermen Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:54 pm

There is an argument that on form Marshall had earned the shirt LF4L. I'm not going to get into that. D'arcy was very good and that's great. It doesn't mean we stop looking at options or not give them a shot. In fairness I expect Schmidt to use both guys in the 6N.

The real worry based on the AIs is his centre partner. Mr O'Driscoll hasn't matched up despite his talismanic presence. What we need is to develop the squad. The need for that doesn't change after yesterday. Our ability to do that will be decided by who is available and who is on form and of course how guys respond to 6 weeks of Schmidt in the winter. 

There are still things that need worked on and depth that needs sorted. Gilroy, Moore, Henderson, Marshall, Jackson, Madigan, Marmion, Ruddock, Zebo are all young guys who could come into the mix with a run of games and form. We have to hope they put their hands up

Standulstermen

Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by MrsP Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:59 pm

Notch wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25088949?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Rory Best interview. The fact that Rory Best got up and hit another ruck immediately after he broke his arm says a lot about the kind of player he is. Same thing as last time we played the BNZs in Dublin, he got up with a fractured jaw bone and straight back into the defensive line.

He's 'physically brave'. I do wish he'd stop getting injured on international duty though!
It's not the first time either. I seem to remember him getting back in the defensive line when he had just fractured his cheek bone a few years back? The guy looked like he hardly knew who he was with the pain but he still stumbled back to help his team.

What'a guy!

MrsP

Posts : 9207
Join date : 2011-09-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:22 pm

Mr O'Driscoll was as bad as his team mates and as good as his team mates in whichever of the three or four matches he's played in this season!!

This tendancy to push the blame for every ill in the team onto the shoulders of Mr O'Driscoll is getting tiring.  Give the guy a bloody break and let him have his last bloody season without so many of you cheerleading him off with endless putdowns.

He didn't let down the side yesterday and he wasn't alone in the crap last week.  What do you want from him?  To part the seas for us like Moses?

"He should do his magic", "he should prove he still has it", "I didn't see much thrills from him", "he made handling errors"

No schit?  Handling errors?  So unlike the Irish team to make handling errors.  He's letting them down.  In the last season of his career with his right hand almost looking arthritic already....letting the boys down.

Mr O'Driscoll doesn't owe any of us a blasted thing, given he sometimes held teams together on his own.  He's not there for the magic anymore, he's there for experienced solidity to allow the young hungry things to do their thing.  I'm not seeing a lot of it about though as the forwards did most of the work again yesterday.

Mr O'Driscoll will go soon enough.  I'm getting the feeling the expected 606 eulogies will be cringeworthy if this Mr O'Driscoll is holding us back crap goes on and intensifies into the new year.

Sorry for the anger spurt - but this is becoming a drag.  The team implodes and first up is always Mr O'Driscoll for the noose.


Last edited by SecretFly on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by MrsP Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:34 pm

Ah sure they only blame BOD when they can't shovel the blame onto some poor Ulster lad!!!!

Very Happy 

Run 

MrsP

Posts : 9207
Join date : 2011-09-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:36 pm

Standulstermen wrote:There is an argument that on form Marshall had earned the shirt LF4L. I'm not going to get into that. D'arcy was very good and that's great. It doesn't mean we stop looking at options or not give them a shot. In fairness I expect Schmidt to use both guys in the 6N.

The real worry based on the AIs is his centre partner. Mr O'Driscoll hasn't matched up despite his talismanic presence. What we need is to develop the squad. The need for that doesn't change after yesterday. Our ability to do that will be decided by who is available and who is on form and of course how guys respond to 6 weeks of Schmidt in the winter. 

There are still things that need worked on and depth that needs sorted. Gilroy, Moore, Henderson, Marshall, Jackson, Madigan, Marmion, Ruddock, Zebo are all young guys who could come into the mix with a run of games and form. We have to hope they put their hands up
I agree. I don't mind which one starts, its just nice to have dept there for once. Its also a huge shame that Olding is injured too as he would have been pushing both players.

LeinsterFan4life

Posts : 6102
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 34
Location : Meath

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Standulstermen Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:53 pm

In the last two games O'Driscolls stats make for appalling reading and the solidity you mention isn't evident. 

I'm not suggesting there aren't other factors and in fairness his presence is a massive factor and one that cannot be accurately quantified. That said I don't believe in selecting him because he was the best player we ever produced. I believe in selecting him because he is the best 13 in Ireland. 

Moving towards the 6N in truth I expect him to still be there. Cave doesn't seem to be rated. Henshaw is very very raw, Olding is out (as is Earls) Payne is ineligible and Luke Fitz will be competing with him at Leinster. 

The options aren't great but that doesn't mean he gets the shirt regardless of how he is playing because of what he has done in the past. I fully expect him to come good one last time but I don't believe he owns the 13 shirt. It's his until someone better takes it off him and (despite the relative weakness of the options ) the gap isn't as big as I thought it would be.

Standulstermen

Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by SecretFly Mon 25 Nov 2013, 10:30 pm

Standulstermen wrote:In the last two games O'Driscolls stats make for appalling reading and the solidity you mention isn't evident. 

I'm not suggesting there aren't other factors and in fairness his presence is a massive factor and one that cannot be accurately quantified. That said I don't believe in selecting him because he was the best player we ever produced. I believe in selecting him because he is the best 13 in Ireland. 

Moving towards the 6N in truth I expect him to still be there. Cave doesn't seem to be rated. Henshaw is very very raw, Olding is out (as is Earls) Payne is ineligible and Luke Fitz will be competing with him at Leinster. 

The options aren't great but that doesn't mean he gets the shirt regardless of how he is playing because of what he has done in the past. I fully expect him to come good one last time but I don't believe he owns the 13 shirt. It's his until someone better takes it off him and (despite the relative weakness of the options ) the gap isn't as big as I thought it would be.
I do believe he owns the 13 shirt...no not because of the silly GOD publicity... but because he's still the best we have for the heavy hitting 'presence' games - just as Paul O'Connell is still required.  When I see tour-de-force games from alternatives in the position against top level opposition (something O'Driscoll doesn't just talk about but has had plenty of at both International and Provincial level) then I'll be more than happy to say O'Driscoll should be dropped.  But that time will not now come as, I repeat, he only has the guts of six months left.  He'll be gone soon enough for you impatient folks who want your own guys tried out.

And that's my reason for being annoyed.  It's a grinding, needlessly sniping, bording on sly-ridiculing show directed at a player who almost single handedly dragged us kicking and screaming to anything of note we've ever done - including that precious Grand Slam year.

Yeah, history does mean something - it means everything.  And it'll mean so much more to us when he's gone.  If people like Jack Kyle, Mike Gibson and Willie John McBride can be spoken about in hushed reverence by Irish rugby history affectionados, then it's galling that perhaps the best of them all, grinding to his own end unceremoniously in his aging battered incarnation, should be so heedlessly dismissed by people with such short memories of his greatness.

He'll be gone soon enough....maybe a lot sooner than six months if he picks up an injury.  Bear with him for the duration - he deserves that much respect at least.

SecretFly

Posts : 31800
Join date : 2011-12-12

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Standulstermen Mon 25 Nov 2013, 10:44 pm

History is an irrelevance regarding the future of the Irish rugby team. If you actually read my post I said there is a paucity of alternatives and that I expect him to still be the best 13 come 6N but that doesn't mean to say he gets the shirt regardless of how he plays. 

That's backwards thinking and to suggest he is given the shirt because of former glories wouldn't sit well with the man himself. As things stand I think it would be some achievement for him to last 5 games in quick succession and I suspect Schmidt might see it the same way. Nothing would please me more than seeing him sign off with another slam but I want it to be for the right reasons.

Standulstermen

Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Nachos Jones Tue 26 Nov 2013, 7:22 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:If truth be known, i would have been happy if Ireland got within 3 scores of the AB's. That was some performance yesterday.

That said, i do hope that its the last time we see D'Arcy in green, played a great game yesterday but his great games are too far and few between these days. Excellent servant but his day has come.

oh Jeez will you give over. His day has clearly not come after that performance. Isn't it good that we have competition for the 12 jersey? Marshall will be first choice but let him earn it.
Give over? Sorry but i have nothing but respect for D'Arcy and what he has done but don't forget that he is not the future for Ireland. One great game in around 5 is not good enough at this level and for the last 2-3 years, that's what Ireland have been getting from him. Marshall should be the 12 now and he has earnt it. Give Marshall a few more games with BOD in the 6N to fully work his way into the side. Prepare for the future, don't look at the past...

You wanted ROG out of the Ireland side for the very same reasons if i remember correctly...

Nachos Jones

Posts : 2232
Join date : 2013-11-15

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by The Great Aukster Tue 26 Nov 2013, 1:28 pm

People wonder how the ABs can maintain such high levels of stamina until the last second of the game and Ireland cannot, the answer's simple - depth. They don't have to play guys carrying injuries even minor ones so they go into games 100% fit.

Ireland OTOH have a legacy of picking on reputation from the EOS era, meaning that these guys often play carrying knocks. Kidney expanded the option pool but still adhered to the notion that some players were indispensible. Schmidt has already rotated some players and that has caused plenty of consternation on this board, but the logical thing for him to do is to keep rotating a squad.

By doing so he builds depth and so alleviates the need to rest so many players keeping them match sharp. This won't happen overnight so inconsistencies week on week are inevitable. I hope Joe takes the whole of 2014 to build a squad of interchangeable players ready for an assault on the 2015 6N.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:16 am

Nachos Jones wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:If truth be known, i would have been happy if Ireland got within 3 scores of the AB's. That was some performance yesterday.

That said, i do hope that its the last time we see D'Arcy in green, played a great game yesterday but his great games are too far and few between these days. Excellent servant but his day has come.

oh Jeez will you give over. His day has clearly not come after that performance. Isn't it good that we have competition for the 12 jersey? Marshall will be first choice but let him earn it.
Give over? Sorry but i have nothing but respect for D'Arcy and what he has done but don't forget that he is not the future for Ireland. One great game in around 5 is not good enough at this level and for the last 2-3 years, that's what Ireland have been getting from him. Marshall should be the 12 now and he has earnt it. Give Marshall a few more games with BOD in the 6N to fully work his way into the side. Prepare for the future, don't look at the past...

You wanted ROG out of the Ireland side for the very same reasons if i remember correctly...
ROG was not playing well for Ireland (he was still performing well for Munster) and he was not going to make the next WC. Thats why I along with others wanted him gone. If Darcy didn't play well on Sunday then I would be in total agreement with you.

Darcy has made it clear that he intends to play on until the next WC and proved against the ABs that he is still able to perform at the very top level. We have two good 12's now competing for the starting spot, so be happy about that. We all know Joe really likes Darcy so his days in green are certainly not over.

LeinsterFan4life

Posts : 6102
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 34
Location : Meath

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by theslosty Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:If truth be known, i would have been happy if Ireland got within 3 scores of the AB's. That was some performance yesterday.

That said, i do hope that its the last time we see D'Arcy in green, played a great game yesterday but his great games are too far and few between these days. Excellent servant but his day has come.

Darcy has made it clear that he intends to play on until the next WC and proved against the ABs that he is still able to perform at the very top level. We have two good 12's now competing for the starting spot, so be happy about that. We all know Joe really likes Darcy so his days in green are certainly not over.
Did he not just say that was most likely his last ever game against the ABs?

D'arcy has been a brilliant player for Ireland and Leinster over the years, but with guys like Marshall, Olding and Hanrahan coming through, I would be pretty disappointed if a 35-year old D'arce is still starting by RWC 2015.


Last edited by theslosty on Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1106
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by GunsGerms Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

People keep talking about Jarod Payne as the incumbent 13 for the WC however, is he really the answer? He isnt eligable until June 2014 I think so he will be approx 29 when he gets to play his first game for Ireland. He will probably only feature in one 6N before the next world cup. Should contingency plans be focused on Henshaw or Fitzgerald who are both Irish, both at least a couple of years younger, both good players and both eligable now?

GunsGerms

Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by theslosty Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:30 am

GunsGerms wrote:People keep talking about Jarod Payne as the incumbent 13 for the WC however, is he really the answer? He isnt eligable until June 2014 I think so he will be approx 29 when he gets to play his first game for Ireland. He will probably only feature in one 6N before the next world cup. Should contingency plans be focused on Henshaw or Fitzgerald who are both Irish, both at least a couple of years younger, both good players and both eligable now?
Agree with you there GG. He does indeed look class for Ulster, but has had limited game time at 13 and has never played a minute of international rugby. He also isn't that young and we'd rather select and Irish player if we could.

So yes, we should definitely try to ease one of Fitz, Henshaw or Cave into the team before next season.
theslosty
theslosty

Posts : 1106
Join date : 2012-05-01
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by GunsGerms Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:41 am

For me the biggest goal for Ireland in the next two six nations will be to beat France and Italy and beat them well. As you all will know France and Italy will be in our world cup group and whoever finishes second in the group will play New Zealand in the quarter finals. Therefore it is imperative despite the decent performance last Sunday that Ireland win that group so they can face Argentina in stead.

I think that Schmidt will target these games.

We play Canada first in our group so that will be a good physical start. Then "Europe 2" then Italy then France at the MS Irelands favorite ground outside Ireland.

GunsGerms

Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Standulstermen Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:48 am

I think fitz, Henshaw and Olding could all come into the mix at centre for Ireland. Farrell and Daly too if we are looking longer term. That said if we look at form Payne will be in the Ireland squad. He oozes class.

What happens when he is that position we have to wait and see. Certainly given his age I cant see Payne being a long, long term option.

Standulstermen

Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 27 Nov 2013, 11:54 am

Europe 2 I imagine will be Romania. (Hopefully Georgia qualify as Europe 1) So not a bad group at all.

LeinsterFan4life

Posts : 6102
Join date : 2012-03-13
Age : 34
Location : Meath

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by The Great Aukster Wed 27 Nov 2013, 2:11 pm

Brian O'Driscoll is in his last season, he won't be at RWC2015.

Ireland need to have two or three options at 13 for the next World Cup.

Ireland need to have two or three options at 12 for the next World Cup. D'Arcy is one of them. Luke Marshall might be one of them.

There are only 10 games in 2014 to try options as 2015 should be all about rotating a settled squad.

Given the above, logic would suggest that D'Arcy and Bod have just played their last Test together.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Ireland moving forward Empty Re: Ireland moving forward

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 10 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum