Nelson Mandela has died

I just heard about this.

A truly great man who emancipated the world not just SA.

I will never forget his wearing of the 6 jumper at the 95 Final and his contribution to the Springboks is perhaps the greatest gesture of reconciliation.

RIP and my condolences to all South Africans.

Sad day for our country.

Madiba can rest now.

"I am fundamentally an optimist. Whether that comes from nature or nurture, I cannot say. Part of being optimistic is keeping one's head pointed toward the sun, one's feet moving forward. There were many dark moments when my faith in humanity was sorely tested, but I would not and could not give myself up to despair. That way lays defeat and death."

46664

We should be thankful that he lived the way he did... we need more men and women like Nelson Mandela.

a truly inspiring man. to have been through so much bad stuff, and yet to be so forgiving, is what really stand out for me. what a great great human being.

We should be more thankful that he was on this earth and only hope that he is finally at peace.

"Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. It has the power to unite in a way that little else does. It speaks to youth in a language they understand. Sport can create hope where there was only despair.

Farewell Madiba, will remember him for the inspirational leader he was after his sentence.

The ANC was having a meeting just after they took over the rule of SA.

In the meeting they were discussing the removal of the Springbok emblem from all sporting codes and in specific from rugby.

Mandela arrived when the meeting was already in full swing.

His message was simple. If we were to rebuild our country we would need the Afrikaner, to take away an emblem so dear to them would only alienate them.

As we all know, we are still the Springboks

RIP

RIP

Mandela is a freak outlier, the likes which will almost certainly never be seen again. Seemed to posses so much authority, to the point where once he said something, that was that. To be able to be forgiving is a remarkable feat, but to be able to forgive and keep trying to improve the world in a life marred by an unending occurrence of personal tragedy is a most remarkable feat. Herculean, really.

There will be millions of words written about this truly great man and I don't think I can add anything notable...
Just want to express my best wishes especially to all my South African friends on here.
And be thankful we had him for 95 years. RIP.

alfie wrote:There will be millions of words written about this truly great man and I don't think I can add anything notable...
Just want to express my best wishes especially to all my South African friends on here.
And be thankful we had him for 95 years.  RIP.

+1 nothing more I can add

A great, great man.
By symbolism, by armed struggle, by budha-like wisdom, by self-deprecation etc. He was a man to transcend all walks of life and like Ghandi has become a symbol of inspiration to ordinary, oppressed people in the 20th century and beyond.

To me, maybe his greatest achievement were the peace and reconciliation talks.

I hope that now that he's gone, his successors (and their adversaries) can maintain the legacy of Madiba's spiritual presence in their tolerance over violence and justice and liberty over race and creed. A big call.

Well done to those few in the rugby community (notably the New Zealand RU) for isolating the Bokke in the dark days if Apartheid.
Well done to those who turned out to the demos to protest when they pitched up on our shores.
Well done to John Taylor who refused to tour SA and never played International rugby again.

http://www.google.com/search?nord=1&biw=1708&bih=794&site=webhp&tbm=isch&oq=apartheid+bus+&gs_l=img.12...0.0.1.61723.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..32.img..1.15.782.5pN72mCqHkA&q=apartheid%20bus

http://www.google.com/search?nord=1&biw=1708&bih=794&site=webhp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=apartheid+rugby&oq=apartheid+rugby&gs_l=img.12..0i24l2.77163.80571.0.83748.5.3.0.2.2.0.112.249.2j1.3.0....0...1c.1.32.img..0.5.260.hKxJDkMImmE

Not sure whether to be sad or celebrate the great man. A personal hero of mine (as well as most other people's).

"Let bygones be bygones". And he meant it. Truly amazing and a sad day for South Africa and the entire world.

RIP Madiba.

Teenagers can be petulant and stroppy at the best of times and in 1995, after watching South Africa beat us I was no different - incredibly sulky! However, by the time Madiba handed over the trophy even I could see this was a moment to remember. Later that year, I was privileged to see Mandela first hand at the Parliament Grounds in Wellington with about 100,000 other people as he met with our then PM, Jim Bolger. I cannot recall if he gave a speech but I do remember the wonderful charisma that he gave off and most of all, eternal optimism.

Mandela was true symbol for hope and peace around the World, and will continue to be in his death.

Although he never visited here many people may not realise the influence he had on Northern Ireland and how he and the anti-apartheid movement inspired senior members of the provisional IRA to pursue their objectives via peaceful means.
It's not stretching things to suggest the ceasefires brokered in the early 90's, that led to the current, ongoing peace process would not have occurred, or be where they are, without Mandela's influence - directly and indirectly.

Sorry to go off on a wee tangent and don't want to spark any non relevant political debate but I think it is important to recognise how Mandela's influence stretched well beyond SA and that he wasn't just an inspiration to be admired from a afar, he directly impacted peoples lives here in the UK and Ireland and we still benefit from this influence today.   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15756000

RIP .

great historic leader , great respect for the man who would have given his life for his beliefs . will be sadly mourned

My respects. RIP

would have made a great rugby player. 6'4 (which for our grandfathers age is more like 6'6-6'8 today). Naturally heavy set.... aged 75 he still stood eye to eye with Franscois Pienaar and didn't look small.

I will never bring myself to watch the movie Invictus. The 95 defeat still hurts today. I too mintie still have that image of Mandela in the Springbok jersey handing the trophy to Pienaar. It was a moment in history that perfectly summed up what Mandela had achieved and what lay ahead for SA. Our fiercest rival had defeated us but they were also defeating something that transcended that final. Somehow it put the final defeat into context. Still hurts but that moment tied up history that stretched back over decades of NZ SA rugby and a lot more in SA's history. Sport and politics don't mix? Not that day. Sad to see Fiji celebrate their centenary year in isolation but history has shown us sport and politics do collide and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

Biltong wrote:The ANC was having a meeting just after they took over the rule of SA.

In the meeting they were discussing the removal of the Springbok emblem from all sporting codes and in specific from rugby.

Mandela arrived when the meeting was already in full swing.

His message was simple. If we were to rebuild our country we would need the Afrikaner, to take away an emblem so dear to them would only alienate them.

As we all know, we are still the Springboks

Saw that in the movie Invictus. It was a genius move from clearly a very smart man. No wonder he is so cherished not just in SA but the world over.

Rest in peace Mr Mandela.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8py3MaTT4Q

rodders wrote:Mandela was true symbol for hope and peace around the World, and will continue to be in his death.

Although he never visited here many people may not realise the influence he had on Northern Ireland and how he and the anti-apartheid movement inspired senior members of the provisional IRA to pursue their objectives via peaceful means.
It's not stretching things to suggest the ceasefires brokered in the early 90's, that led to the current, ongoing peace process would not have occurred, or be where they are, without Mandela's influence - directly and indirectly.

Sorry to go off on a wee tangent and don't want to spark any non relevant political debate but I think it is important to recognise how Mandela's influence stretched well beyond SA and that he wasn't just an inspiration to be admired from a afar, he directly impacted peoples lives here in the UK and Ireland and we still benefit from this influence today.   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15756000

RIP .

I was lucky enough to see him with a massive crowd on Dawson street in Dublin just after his release from prison in 1990. Not as big a crowd turned up to see Irelands grand slam parade in 2009 on the same street.

RIP Nelson Mandela. It's very sad to lose one so dear to so many a d who had such a huge impact on the world, but this looked inevitable, he's been in and out of hospital for months and frankly he's earnt his rest

Did anyone watch Invictus? Other than the fact that Matt Damon was meant to be a realistic Pienaar, I thought it gave a good insight into what was going on around that time (cannot comment on how accurate it was though!).

RDW_Scotland wrote:Did anyone watch Invictus? Other than the fact that Matt Damon was meant to be a realistic Pienaar, I thought it gave a good insight into what was going on around that time (cannot comment on how accurate it was though!).

According to the film SA expected to lose at home to Western Samoa in the quarters so it probably wasn't hugely accurate.

SA were far from favourites though weren't they?

Were probably 2nd favourites after NZ, especially once they'd beaten Australia in the first game. Mandela's role in the World Cup win was overstated but that's just poetic licence.

As Biltong said on another thread he was instrumental in allowing the Springbok to be kept as the rugby emblem (no other sport still has it) which did much to build bridges where some would liked to have seen them burning as was his wearing the Springbok jersey and handing the trophy to Pienaar.

probably 5th at the beginning of the tournament.

Although people forgot how formidable SA were at home but their record vs NZ, AUS, ENG & FRA was played 15, won 3, lost 10, drawn 2 from re-introduction to the beginning of the RWC95.

It was a remarkable achievement and they did it the hard way too.

Pooled in AUS group (the apparent world champs elect) and came through both FRA & NZ.... the toughest route of any champions in RWC history.

Galted wrote:Were probably 2nd favourites after NZ, especially once they'd beaten Australia in the first game.  Mandela's role in the World Cup win was overstated but that's just poetic licence.

As Biltong said on another thread he was instrumental in allowing the Springbok to be kept as the rugby emblem (no other sport still has it) which did much to build bridges where some would liked to have seen them burning as was his wearing the Springbok jersey and handing the trophy to Pienaar.  

2nd favourite??? seriously.

ENG had gone there the year before and drawn 1-1. AUS were the world number 1 team... NZ, they were probably 3rd (remember AUS were seen as the better side, the Blesidoe cup holders and NZ had lost to FRA 0-2 at home the year before).

It was probably

AUS
ENG
NZ
FRA
SA

Maybe but they did hammer Eng in the 2nd test of the 1-1, pushed NZ hard in NZ despite losing 2-0 in a 3 test series and beat Aus in the first test in '93 (away from home).

They were also under Kitch Christie who had coached the all-conquering Transvaal team of 93/94.

They were never behind Eng & France as favourites.

A truly great man - there have been precious few in the last century, at least in politics

Graced his country, graced the world and even found time to bring harmony to our little game

Such gentleness when faced with such brutality is unbelievable

RIP old fella
Privleage to be alive when you were

3 wins in 15 against the other big 5 nations. But saying that home advantage in SA is huge.

Inbetween the 1991-1995 world cups England had played 7 matches vs. the big 5 (3N, ENG & FRA). They had won 6.... 2/3 vs. SA, 4/4 vs. FRA & 1/1 vs. NZ. They were recently crowned GS winners in the 5N. They were a very strong outfit.

I'm not suggesting that England were no-hopers but they were more a potential banana skin for others than a team expected to be in the final. Don't recall France ever really being much of a threat until the semi & the waterlogged pitch, if I remember correctly it was very nearly Scotland who ended up in France's place in SA's side of the draw until a late Ntamack try put paid to that.

Galted wrote:I'm not suggesting that England were no-hopers but they were more a potential banana skin for others than a team expected to be in the final.  Don't recall France ever really being much of a threat until the semi & the waterlogged pitch, if I remember correctly it was very nearly Scotland who ended up in France's place in SA's side of the draw until a late Ntamack try put paid to that.

Scotland were a good team in 95. Scored 30 points vs. the ABs (albeit let in 48), beat France in France in the 5N and were vying with them for the 2nd best team in Europe.

Nearly the exactly the same FRA team had beaten the ABs in NZ the year before in a series.... something only the Lions (71) and the boks ('37) have achieved, and each only once. They were a very good team and probably should have won the SF in Durban... but then again in tight games most teams can say the same thing. The boks were worthy winners.

Great man
If ever only one man deserved to be a Saint, it is him.
The greatest man of this era
RIP

So basically SA weren't one of the favourites, but they weren't quite as hopeless as Invictus made out!

RDW_Scotland wrote:So basically SA weren't one of the favourites, but they weren't quite as hopeless as Invictus made out!

Pretty much.










(Except that SA were really one of the favourites but never THE favourite.)

Galted wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So basically SA weren't one of the favourites, but they weren't quite as hopeless as Invictus made out!

Pretty much.










(Except that SA were really one of the favourites but never THE favourite.)

Do you expect Hollywood to tell the truth??? Often more fiction then WWE.

At least they didn't have Mandela taking a pass from Chester Williams to score the winning points (in the last play of overtime with the live stadium announcer going insane (to cap the comeback from 0-48 down)).

RIP Madiba, condolences to the SA citizens on the board. I wish that any of the politicians in my wee country were men of even 1% of his stature and integrity.
 
RE Invictus, (as is true in a lot of cases) try the book rather than the film, much more enlightening in terms of Mandela and his influence on SA rugby and the Boer community in general.

fa0019 wrote:

Galted wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:So basically SA weren't one of the favourites, but they weren't quite as hopeless as Invictus made out!

Pretty much.










(Except that SA were really one of the favourites but never THE favourite.)

Do you expect Hollywood to tell the truth??? Often more fiction then WWE.

Seeing as the actual poem given to Piennar was 'The man in the arena', rather than Invictus, you could argue it gets off to a bad start truth wise. At least it got semi back on track factually after that.

A little off topic, but

Heard that the premiere of his biopic was attended by his daughters and by Wills and Kate.

that the producer announced his death at the end

Tragic coincidence but somehow fitting

I admit i woke this morning feeling deflated that there are so few men of conviction like him and now we have lost him.

And much as i understand the sentiment regarding canonization, the prospect of him being tainted by association with the Catholic church, for which i have little respect, leaves me cold. Personally i think his ability to forgive and reconcile the heinous actions against his race of Apartheid South Africa means he stands alone and above other men.

PM to you germs

I can only hope the ANC don't use the great man's death to push their election manifesto. When my grandfather passed away in 2011, just before the by-elections, what started out as a service for my fallen grandfather quickly became propagandist rhetoric that ruined a very emotional day. ANC has fallen a long way from the party which had its leader have tea with the wife of an apartheid-era president, and who visited ailing members of the opposition in hospital (away from the private eye no less). I can only hope that Mandela's family are not now made the face of a pseudo revolution...

Kingraf….I wanted to ask about this but didn't want to bring it up….do you think that his death will lead to more reconciliation or, which concerns me, do you think that now he has gone those that would have previously been militant but couldn't while he was living, may cause problems.

“Nelson Mandela was the most extraordinary and incredible human being, not only because he united his country when such a task seemed impossible but also because, through his unique humanity, he inspired hundreds of millions of people across the globe.

“It was my great fortune and privilege to receive the Webb Ellis Cup from Madiba at the conclusion of the 1995 Rugby World Cup Final at Ellis Park in Johannesburg, creating what has become an iconic image of national success, unity and reconciliation that resonates with all South Africans.

“I will always be profoundly grateful for the personal role Nelson Mandela has played in my life, as my President and my example.”

Pienaar's statement on SARFU website.

GunsGerms wrote:Im not religious and couldnt care less about the Catholic church even though I am "catholic". That said despite being antiquated they have been responsible for infinitely more good that the bad actions of a few so your comments are a little ridiculous and a little out of place on this thread scratch. Leave religion out of it.

Can you quantify these infinite goods?