What Is Going On In Wales Pt.2

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 06 Jan 2014, 10:24 am

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the old thread -: https://www.606v2.com/t50378-what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-wales

Intotouch wrote:Hello knowledgeable Welsh friends. I've read some extraordinary things lately about the war between the regions and the union in Wales, but being an outsider, and not following this closely for years I'm not sure what's real and what's nonsense. Can someone please help clarify a few things for me?

1. I read that the WRU have a deal with the regions that they will each be given the same amount of money annually by the union for the next five years. This was interpreted by some as the union deciding to slowly let the regions go bust so they can set up new regions that they would own. Is this really the case? It sounds completely crazy to me! Wouldn't this be a disaster in Welsh rugby and couldn't they try to buy the regions instead since they have more money now? Could this really be a plan?

2. The WRU is making a profit and with the millenium stadium paid off should have plenty of money to splash about in the future. (Or do they?) As they won't give more money to the regions this suggests that they want the regions to founder (see above).

3. Although the WRU pay millions to the regions annually they have little or no say in how they are run so are deeply frustrated with the regions. Also the regions can't stand the WRU even though they're keeping them afloat. Is this true and why?

4. The WRU offered central contracts to the players in the regions but the regions rejected this. Even though they would have a smaller wage bill if it went ahead. Why?
The regions have the lowest salary cap in Europe and keep losing their best players. But the regions won't let the WRU pay the internationals out of a central contract. As players have to be released anyway to play for Wales I don't see why the clubs wouldn't be delighted to do this. Are they afraid that they would lose them to too many training camps? I don't follow the logic of this. If the WRU paid the players then surely the regions would be able to keep more of their best players playing in Wales which surely would benefit them as they'd have stronger teams. Again I don't get why this is such a problem.

(Please don't include the possible move to the AP on this thread. It's being debated elsewhere.)

The original thread hit 1,000+ posts without descending into a bicker-fest, let's try to keep this thread going in the same manner.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:"Unreasonable" keeps coming up as a sticking point. But "unreasonable" does what it says on the tin - always - in that, without it, there is no battle, no war, no trenches and no reason for negotiations.

So "unreasonable" is a natural consequence and cause of the argument still going on between WRU and Regions.

I don't know if one is already involved but it (the argument) does seem to require a truly neutral facilitator (not Welsh, not English, not Irish, not Scotch...not Moffatt )

Someone who probably doesn't know a blessed thing about rugby and who has no vested interest in what a future profile of rugby in wales might be. But someone who can get the parties to actually sit down and have both sides approach the whole thing differently.

Instead of them each coming with a "What are you going to do for us?" attitude, they should be forced (both sides) to come with real, honest proposals about what each is prepared to give way on to make progress.
Get some written down actual concession proposals from each first (to take care of the accusations of 'unreasonableness'). And then when those are on the table then get going on how to amalgamate those real concessions to the more contentious issues of "What you gonna do for us?"

But first - if they don't already have one - they really must get a neutral person to get between them and force both to acknowledge 'unreasonableness' is there on both sides.

"Unreasonable" keeps coming up because the WRU refused to even discuss the issues according to Drags chief, Gareth Davies.
Anyway, something like the following I think you're getting at. Had one meeting I believe and that was that.

"The PRGB, comprising of four members of the WRU, four members of the regions and an independent chair - yet to be appointed - will have clear objectives to improve the position and strength of Welsh professional rugby, both on and off the field."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20603049

by SecretFly Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:24 pm

Dave...that's still you (a Welsh vested interest) saying that you believe the "unreasonable" one is the WRU.

So be it, and your right to believe it of course. But that's my point - that's the situation that won't make progress because it means the WRU (or a supporter of the WRU) will respond by saying "Nope, the Regions are making rigid ultimatums and then asking us/WRU to rubberstamp them. We're not unreasonable. They are."

Result - no meetings, no agreements, no progress.

It needs an Independent chair to create the conditions attached to any meetings. Someone to say "You're all wrong and this is how we're going to plan/organise getting into the same room together to discuss it...................."

Who was the 'Independent' Chair BTW? A rugby man from another jurisdiction? If so, he wasn't neutral. A neutral person is probably a guy from America or somewhere who has never seen a game of rugby. That's neutral and that's a guy who would see the 'fight' in abstract terms rather than having a more detailed knowledge of the participants involved.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:27 pm

Fly, to be honest the only way that you would find someone who is truly neutral in the farce would be by taking someone who has no interest in rugby or politics. Because even if you were to get a southern hemisphere person in to sort it all out, then they would be tainted already by the fact they would want to see a strong competitive (or weak and impotent, if that is their preference) welsh national side to compete in competitions/tours/RWC against their own nation etc.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:Dave...that's still you (a Welsh vested interest) saying that you believe the "unreasonable" one is the WRU.

I believe Gareth Davies.

by SecretFly Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:35 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Dave...that's still you (a Welsh vested interest) saying that you believe the "unreasonable" one is the WRU.

I believe Gareth Davies.

There you go. Rubberstamped, sealed and delivered. Wink

by SecretFly Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:38 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly, to be honest the only way that you would find someone who is truly neutral in the farce would be by taking someone who has no interest in rugby or politics. Because even if you were to get a southern hemisphere person in to sort it all out, then they would be tainted already by the fact they would want to see a strong competitive (or weak and impotent, if that is their preference) welsh national side to compete in competitions/tours/RWC against their own nation etc.

An American professional facilitator should be an easy guy to get somewhere in a big continent, that would have the needed qualifications of not ever having seen a rugby game or indeed having much of a clue rightly where Wales is. Wink

That's the kind of neutrality that is needed to kill the obvious epidemic of suspicion that is going on in Wales right now.

by Comfort Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:44 pm

Can I be counted as neutral even though I'm welsh?

I dont understand the issues and I think they're all bumbaclarts in equal measure?

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:46 pm

Sin é wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
gcBlues wrote:EGM is set for June 15th...fathers day.

I assume they're doing this on purpose to try and get as little attendance as possible. Also, a day after the Wales game? Aren't they (the WRU Jolly Holiday club) going to be in SA?

That would appear to be the case.

The case is more than likely down to the Constitution/Article of Association of the WRU. Generally, you have to give a couple of weeks notice of an EGM (3+ weeks) and you have to hold it within a certain timeframe (as in you can't put it off forever). Also stuff like you have to hold it in the same location (as in town/city) as to where you hold the AGM. This is to stop boards doing stuff like holding an EGM in the north of Scotland as a deterrant for attendance.

The following is what I was getting at.
Hopefully none of the clubs will take up this kind offer of the WRU President voting for them and all will make every effort to make their way to Port Talbot next Sunday to hear and take part in the discussion.

"Each Member Club of the WRU has two votes and there are two ways to submit those votes: firstly, by attending the EGM in person on Sunday 15th June, secondly by submitting votes via proxy using one of the official forms.

The proxy forms provide the opportunity to appoint WRU President Dennis Gethin to cast their votes on their behalf."

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/30583.php#.U48cd3brxv3

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly, to be honest the only way that you would find someone who is truly neutral in the farce would be by taking someone who has no interest in rugby or politics. Because even if you were to get a southern hemisphere person in to sort it all out, then they would be tainted already by the fact they would want to see a strong competitive (or weak and impotent, if that is their preference) welsh national side to compete in competitions/tours/RWC against their own nation etc.

An American professional facilitator should be an easy guy to get somewhere in a big continent, that would have the needed qualifications of not ever having seen a rugby game or indeed having much of a clue rightly where Wales is. That's the kind of neutrality that is needed to kill the obvious epidemic of suspicion that is going on in Wales right now.

No chance we could use an American. First off they tend to be very strong about their heritage, so we would need to first weed out all of those with Irish, Italian, Scottish or Welsh blood (that rules out a few states totally). Then we would need to make sure that we are not using anyone too high up in the professional sport arena, as to rule out any chance that they may look at who has the bigger bank balance and back them etc.

When the poop storm started the Regions had Stuart Gallagher as their front man, and the Union had Roger Lewis, and the two could no see eye to eye (Roger is stumpy and Stuart is a monster of a man, so that made sense I guess). But the regions have removed Gallagher from the equation and put in Mark Davies (closer in height to Roger) and now even Mark and Roger can't see eye to eye. So seeing as two different heads of the RRW have failed to get any results in dealing with Roger Lewis, maybe Roger Lewis could stand aside and let RRW deal with someone else as it would appear that the issues lie with him.

by Allty Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:54 pm

[quote="Irish Londoner"]Sorry, I snipped the quote from your quote of his quote Very Happy

[/quote]That is OK OK Irish

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Dave...that's still you (a Welsh vested interest) saying that you believe the "unreasonable" one is the WRU.

I believe Gareth Davies.

There you go. Rubberstamped, sealed and delivered.

My belief is based on what has gone on during the past 5, nay 6 years.

by SecretFly Wed 04 Jun 2014, 3:00 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Dave...that's still you (a Welsh vested interest) saying that you believe the "unreasonable" one is the WRU.

I believe Gareth Davies.

There you go. Rubberstamped, sealed and delivered.

My belief is based on what has gone on during the past 5, nay 6 years.

...and on that you agree with Gareth. Nope..sorry...can't employ you as the Neutral, dave Wink

Comfort? I'm still looking at his CV and will make an announcement at a later date.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 3:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Dave...that's still you (a Welsh vested interest) saying that you believe the "unreasonable" one is the WRU.

I believe Gareth Davies.

There you go. Rubberstamped, sealed and delivered.

My belief is based on what has gone on during the past 5, nay 6 years.

...and on that you agree with Gareth. Nope..sorry...can't employ you as the Neutral, dave Comfort? I'm still looking at his CV and will make an announcement at a later date.

I believe Gareth Davies was telling the truth when he said on live telly, pitchside at CAP, that the WRU were being unreasonable by refusing to even have a discussion with the regions.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 3:23 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly, to be honest the only way that you would find someone who is truly neutral in the farce would be by taking someone who has no interest in rugby or politics. Because even if you were to get a southern hemisphere person in to sort it all out, then they would be tainted already by the fact they would want to see a strong competitive (or weak and impotent, if that is their preference) welsh national side to compete in competitions/tours/RWC against their own nation etc.

An American professional facilitator should be an easy guy to get somewhere in a big continent, that would have the needed qualifications of not ever having seen a rugby game or indeed having much of a clue rightly where Wales is. That's the kind of neutrality that is needed to kill the obvious epidemic of suspicion that is going on in Wales right now.

No chance we could use an American. First off they tend to be very strong about their heritage, so we would need to first weed out all of those with Irish, Italian, Scottish or Welsh blood (that rules out a few states totally). Then we would need to make sure that we are not using anyone too high up in the professional sport arena, as to rule out any chance that they may look at who has the bigger bank balance and back them etc.

When the poop storm started the Regions had Stuart Gallagher as their front man, and the Union had Roger Lewis, and the two could no see eye to eye (Roger is stumpy and Stuart is a monster of a man, so that made sense I guess). But the regions have removed Gallagher from the equation and put in Mark Davies (closer in height to Roger) and now even Mark and Roger can't see eye to eye. So seeing as two different heads of the RRW have failed to get any results in dealing with Roger Lewis, maybe Roger Lewis could stand aside and let RRW deal with someone else as it would appear that the issues lie with him.

In 2008 I reckon when the WRU demanded player release.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 04 Jun 2014, 3:34 pm

Ooops yeah it started back then, that was why RRW was brought about in the first place. So that means Roger has clashed with Moffet, Gallagher, and Davies. All three are very different (Snake, Hardman, Businessman) and not one of them as had any joy getting a fair deal from him.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 04 Jun 2014, 3:36 pm

Moffett and WRU media office having a good old ding-dong on twitter as I type this and.....

David Moffett @moffettrugby · 8s

"Hopefully the proxy issue will become irrelevant after revelations due out on Sunday clubs please wait till then"

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 04 Jun 2014, 10:49 pm

Roger the doger is on The Wales Report now talking about city regions, political stuff, funny enough his patter is almost identical to his rugby patter, its sickening.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 04 Jun 2014, 10:53 pm

Oh, he just claimed he has no desire to enter politics! Tell you what another stirrer is on there after him, Mr Owen Smith, funny two nti regional rugby people both on a been show

by Cardiff Dave Thu 05 Jun 2014, 8:28 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Roger the doger is on The Wales Report now talking about city regions, political stuff, funny enough his patter is almost identical to his rugby patter, its sickening.

Watch it again if you can stomach it.
5mins in for Rog.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b045gdzw/the-wales-report-04062014

by Cardiff Dave Thu 05 Jun 2014, 8:41 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Oh, he just claimed he has no desire to enter politics! Tell you what another stirrer is on there after him, Mr Owen Smith, funny two nti regional rugby people both on a been show

Already has by the look of it. Been busy meeting with ministers here, there and everywhere over this city region thingy. Surprised he has time for rugby.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 05 Jun 2014, 11:20 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Oh, he just claimed he has no desire to enter politics! Tell you what another stirrer is on there after him, Mr Owen Smith, funny two nti regional rugby people both on a been show

Already has by the look of it. Been busy meeting with ministers here, there and everywhere over this city region thingy. Surprised he has time for rugby.

That is what I was thinking when he was saying things like "well Monday I went to see ......, and yesterday I was at....." etc. Then he did the whole, "I am not getting paid for this, it is purely out of the interest of the greater good" etc. I was wondering if maybe he could drop his 'hobby' and concentrate on his job (like my bosses tell me when they catch me on here).

*not actual quotes, but jist of what he said*

by Cardiff Dave Thu 05 Jun 2014, 12:18 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Oh, he just claimed he has no desire to enter politics! Tell you what another stirrer is on there after him, Mr Owen Smith, funny two nti regional rugby people both on a been show

Already has by the look of it. Been busy meeting with ministers here, there and everywhere over this city region thingy. Surprised he has time for rugby.

That is what I was thinking when he was saying things like "well Monday I went to see ......, and yesterday I was at....." etc. Then he did the whole, "I am not getting paid for this, it is purely out of the interest of the greater good" etc. I was wondering if maybe he could drop his 'hobby' and concentrate on his job (like my bosses tell me when they catch me on here).

*not actual quotes, but jist of what he said*

Loved the way the interviewer interrupted him mid Roger-speak to ask "what the Frak are you talking about?".
Not an exact quote of course, just the jist of it. She actually said something like "what do you mean?" and then he carried on where he left off with more of the same. She was clearly not convinced by what he said in any case.
Also, he's been doing this city region stuff in his spare time according to what he told the beeb....

"Mr Lewis told BBC Wales he will be carrying out the role unpaid and in spare time from his WRU duties."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25005435

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 05 Jun 2014, 12:29 pm

Got to admit I did find it amusing to a point, as in his job he seems to be all about making it hard for regions, that have been there a decade, to function properly, yet his hobby seems to revolve around trying to get people to buy into a new exciting regional concept.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 05 Jun 2014, 12:37 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Got to admit I did find it amusing to a point, as in his job he seems to be all about making it hard for regions, that have been there a decade, to function properly, yet his hobby seems to revolve around trying to get people to buy into a new exciting regional concept.

Costing £5bn too.
KERCHING!

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 06 Jun 2014, 11:29 am

Latest seems the regions are willing to bend on the central contract issue for extra case.

Could see us ending up with Warbs at Blues, Adam at Ospeys, Iatno at Scarlets and Anscome at Dragons?

by XR Fri 06 Jun 2014, 11:44 am

Anscombe will go to the blues, Thomas is already talking about it and has said that Anscombe himself has said he wants to play for us.

We'll probably see contracts athe regions picked up by the union.

Scarlets: Priestland & Williams
Ospreys: AWJ, Adam Jones & Biggar
Blues: SW, Anscombe & Gethin Jenkins
Dragons: Faletau.

If he signed a CC, Ian Evans should be allocated to the Dragons. Spread the talent around a bit.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 06 Jun 2014, 12:10 pm

Latest on today's WRU/RRW meeting. It aint happening;

Simon Thomas ‏@simonrug 14h
"May not quite be the last chance saloon but I sense tomorrow's meeting between the WRU & the RRW will mark the drawing of a line in the sand"

Simon Thomas ‏@simonrug
"The meeting has been cancelled."

by bedfordwelsh Fri 06 Jun 2014, 12:27 pm

gcBlues wrote:Anscombe will go to the blues, Thomas is already talking about it and has said that Anscombe himself has said he wants to play for us.

We'll probably see contracts athe regions picked up by the union.

Scarlets: Priestland & Williams
Ospreys: AWJ, Adam Jones & Biggar
Blues: SW, Anscombe & Gethin Jenkins
Dragons: Faletau.

If he signed a CC, Ian Evans should be allocated to the Dragons. Spread the talent around a bit.

Isn't it a bit of a smack in the teeth by giving a CC to Anscombe, I would rather see someone like Cory Allen get it if its going to go that way.

by XR Fri 06 Jun 2014, 12:35 pm

of course, i guess it depends who is doing the recruiting. the blues or wru

by SecretFly Fri 06 Jun 2014, 12:58 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:Latest on today's WRU/RRW meeting. It aint happening;

Simon Thomas ‏@simonrug 14h
"May not quite be the last chance saloon but I sense tomorrow's meeting between the WRU & the RRW will mark the drawing of a line in the sand"

Simon Thomas ‏@simonrug
"The meeting has been cancelled."

Maybe the word "meeting" is the contentious issue that nobody will agree on??

Okay, I'm slapping my own wrists for continually wumming this topic. I know it's a serious issue with long term permutations and serious consequences. So I appreciate it all has to be done right. But the year long "yes" "no" "yes" "no" "yes" developments are....................... well I just wish they would all stop communicating non events to the media UNTIL those events happen. There's just way too many people twittering and YouTube promoting on this one and it makes things appear more comical than they might be if people simply kept quiet until meetings and decision actually happned.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 06 Jun 2014, 1:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Latest on today's WRU/RRW meeting. It aint happening;

Simon Thomas ‏@simonrug 14h
"May not quite be the last chance saloon but I sense tomorrow's meeting between the WRU & the RRW will mark the drawing of a line in the sand"

Simon Thomas ‏@simonrug
"The meeting has been cancelled."

Maybe the word "meeting" is the contentious issue that nobody will agree on??

Okay, I'm slapping my own wrists for continually wumming this topic. I know it's a serious issue with long term permutations and serious consequences. So I appreciate it all has to be done right. But the year long "yes" "no" "yes" "no" "yes" developments are....................... well I just wish they would all stop communicating non events to the media UNTIL those events happen. There's just way too many people twittering and YouTube promoting on this one and it makes things appear more comical than they might be if people simply kept quiet until meetings and decision actually happned.

Agreed there are lots of nonsense twits out there, so you have to sift through the rubbish to get an idea of what's been going on over the years.
The following is a good read. It includes RRW's reaction to the sudden announcement of Warb's CC and more such as.....

"Over the entire time of options being tabled, the WRU has resolutely refused to undertake any discussion, of any option, beyond the absolute conditions that the cost of any National Contract must be deducted from the Region’s existing income; and that the Regions must agree to sign the extension option to the previous Participation Agreement."

http://www.regionalrugbywales.com/2014/01/29/welsh-regions-position-central-contracts/

by Cardiff Dave Fri 06 Jun 2014, 1:54 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Latest seems the regions are willing to bend on the central contract issue for extra case.

Could see us ending up with Warbs at Blues, Adam at Ospeys, Iatno at Scarlets and Anscome at Dragons?

RRW were only against CCs on Roger's terms.
RRW in Jan 2014;

"The proposals also confirmed that the Regions would only play a centrally contracted player on collective agreement between all four Regions – as part of a complete structural solution for the future of the game in Wales."

http://www.regionalrugbywales.com/2014/01/29/welsh-regions-position-central-contracts/

by Cardiff Dave Fri 06 Jun 2014, 3:12 pm

gcBlues wrote:of course, i guess it depends who is doing the recruiting. the blues or wru

Or both.
Have duel Very Happy

contracts been mentioned at all? This one worked out ok, I thought.......

"Iestyn Harris will today complete his £1.6m move from Leeds Rhinos to Cardiff after proving that he was eligible to play for Wales.

The 24-year-old Great Britain stand-off will become the most expensive player in the history of Welsh rugby with the Rhinos receiving £800,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union while Harris, who will sign a four-year contract, will pick up an annual salary of £200,000.
The WRU will stagger its payments to Leeds over four years and it will pay half of Harris's salary."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/aug/10/rugbyleague.rugbyunion

by Seagultaf Fri 06 Jun 2014, 9:06 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
gcBlues wrote:of course, i guess it depends who is doing the recruiting. the blues or wru

Or both.
Have duel contracts been mentioned at all? This one worked out ok, I thought.......

"Iestyn Harris will today complete his £1.6m move from Leeds Rhinos to Cardiff after proving that he was eligible to play for Wales.

The 24-year-old Great Britain stand-off will become the most expensive player in the history of Welsh rugby with the Rhinos receiving £800,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union while Harris, who will sign a four-year contract, will pick up an annual salary of £200,000.
The WRU will stagger its payments to Leeds over four years and it will pay half of Harris's salary."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/aug/10/rugbyleague.rugbyunion

And we all know what a resounding success that was don't we!!!!!

by Seagultaf Fri 06 Jun 2014, 9:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly, to be honest the only way that you would find someone who is truly neutral in the farce would be by taking someone who has no interest in rugby or politics. Because even if you were to get a southern hemisphere person in to sort it all out, then they would be tainted already by the fact they would want to see a strong competitive (or weak and impotent, if that is their preference) welsh national side to compete in competitions/tours/RWC against their own nation etc.

An American professional facilitator should be an easy guy to get somewhere in a big continent, that would have the needed qualifications of not ever having seen a rugby game or indeed having much of a clue rightly where Wales is. That's the kind of neutrality that is needed to kill the obvious epidemic of suspicion that is going on in Wales right now.

The plan was to have Sir Wyn Williams QC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyn_Williams) as independent chair with a casting vote. He was chosen by Roger Lewis and accepted by the Regions, but Roger the Dodger decided that he had to be non voting. So decisions could only be made where the Regions agree with the WRU. Not surprising the Regions disagreed!

by Cardiff Dave Sun 08 Jun 2014, 8:05 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
gcBlues wrote:of course, i guess it depends who is doing the recruiting. the blues or wru

Or both.
Have duel contracts been mentioned at all? This one worked out ok, I thought.......

"Iestyn Harris will today complete his £1.6m move from Leeds Rhinos to Cardiff after proving that he was eligible to play for Wales.

The 24-year-old Great Britain stand-off will become the most expensive player in the history of Welsh rugby with the Rhinos receiving £800,000 from the Welsh Rugby Union while Harris, who will sign a four-year contract, will pick up an annual salary of £200,000.
The WRU will stagger its payments to Leeds over four years and it will pay half of Harris's salary."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2001/aug/10/rugbyleague.rugbyunion

And we all know what a resounding success that was don't we!!!!!

Makes you wonder what the WRU were smoking when they came up with this deal and it goes some way in explaining as to how/why they found themselves skint a year or two down the road. Cue Moffett to sort the shambles and cue the regional fudge. The rest is history.
I'm now also wondering whether the clubs were ever consulted about this Harris deal coz it involved a shed load of union cash. I'll guess that they were not. I sense a recurring theme here.

by Cardiff Dave Sun 08 Jun 2014, 9:07 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly, to be honest the only way that you would find someone who is truly neutral in the farce would be by taking someone who has no interest in rugby or politics. Because even if you were to get a southern hemisphere person in to sort it all out, then they would be tainted already by the fact they would want to see a strong competitive (or weak and impotent, if that is their preference) welsh national side to compete in competitions/tours/RWC against their own nation etc.

An American professional facilitator should be an easy guy to get somewhere in a big continent, that would have the needed qualifications of not ever having seen a rugby game or indeed having much of a clue rightly where Wales is. That's the kind of neutrality that is needed to kill the obvious epidemic of suspicion that is going on in Wales right now.

The plan was to have Sir Wyn Williams QC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyn_Williams) as independent chair with a casting vote. He was chosen by Roger Lewis and accepted by the Regions, but Roger the Dodger decided that he had to be non voting. So decisions could only be made where the Regions agree with the WRU. Not surprising the Regions disagreed!

I agree.
Alternatively I could disagree just to be awkward. "How very Welsh", I hear you cry!
Anyway, as Picasso once said, “Every act of creation is first an act of destruction.” Very apt for Welsh rugby at the moment I feel since it would appear that our set up is still very 1970s which needs reform big time in my view. How can it be right that my village club for instance; season ticket holders - none, stand/terracing - none (there are no stands or terracing and they play on common ground), average attendance - one man plus dog unless it's raining as the dog likes to stay in by the fire, has the same vote as Cardiff, Newport, Llanelli, etc? Bonkers! I'll bet my bottom dollar that most village clubs like mine would agree that this is nonsense, but having the vote they could still decide the future of a WRU CEO earning in excess of £300,000 plus extras.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:28 am

Twitter wrote:
Robin Davey @robindavey01 · 7m

Huge week for Welsh rugby with WRU/regions/egm but WM ignore it all to tell us Welsh players' nicknames! You couldn't make it up

Pretty much nail on the head.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/richard-hibbard-column-adam-named-7237180

I was surprised to see that some of the nickname I personally have heard/used for Mr Gatland (involving replacing letters on his surname), Mr Lewis and/or Mr Pickering were not mentioned. Run

Just read the whole thing, the sign off from Hibbard "As for those pretty boys in the backs I rather keep my views on those p*$$*es to myself!" surely should never have been allowed to go down in print!

by XR Mon 09 Jun 2014, 12:50 pm

haha i saw that last line, may have to make a complaint!

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 09 Jun 2014, 1:31 pm

gcBlues wrote:haha i saw that last line, may have to make a complaint!

To be honest I read it, and then thought I must have read it wrong. It goes to show that proof reading is not what it used to be (along with "Once he matures Balders will be a fine player. And it will all down to me for the guidance I’ve given him. Ha, ha, only joking."), but to be honest I assume that hardly anyone really reads the stuff they put on there, just glance at the headlines.

by Cardiff Dave Mon 09 Jun 2014, 1:40 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Twitter wrote:
Robin Davey @robindavey01 · 7m

Huge week for Welsh rugby with WRU/regions/egm but WM ignore it all to tell us Welsh players' nicknames! You couldn't make it up

Pretty much nail on the head.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/richard-hibbard-column-adam-named-7237180

I was surprised to see that some of the nickname I personally have heard/used for Mr Gatland (involving replacing letters on his surname), Mr Lewis and/or Mr Pickering were not mentioned.

Just read the whole thing, the sign off from Hibbard "As for those pretty boys in the backs I rather keep my views on those p*$$*es to myself!" surely should never have been allowed to go down in print!

I didn't. I couldn't and I felt dirty just clicking on the link. The Fail, fails yet again.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 8:39 am

Moffet has gone back to NZ, apparently shut his twitter down, cleared his website of all bar a goodbye message, and hopped on an plane late last night!

Really not sure what to think of this, but I am getting a really horrible sinking feeling we are down that brown colour creak without a paddle.

by XR Tue 10 Jun 2014, 8:49 am

i reckon it's RRW and WRU coming to an agreement which would make him have an even harder battle.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 8:57 am

gcBlues, I hope your right, however I have heard it is to do with the lack of publicity for his cause in the mainstream, and a bit of alleged backstabbing. But that is just rumour and hearsay. I also would not be surprised if it has something to do with where he is getting his facts and figures about the union too.

But whatever, it has made the EGM a bit pointless now, as we are basically left with the option of Dai Pick, or well.....um.....ah...I guess nobody.

by geoff998rugby Tue 10 Jun 2014, 9:30 am

One of two things have occurred

Agreement between RRW and WRU or
insufficient support to oust Pickering and Lewis

I know Welsh supporters hope it is the former but
I would have thought the later is more likely

Either way Lewis will remain in charge

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:25 am

Geoff - Lewis' position was never technically under threat, it was the position held by David Pickering that was at risk. The whole RRW/WRU/Club Structure thing is most likely going to continue even longer now, as the EGM is most likely going to turn out to be a waste of time and money, with nobody to spear head a vote of no confidence.

To a point, I am disappointed in Moffett, I was not his biggest fan and always though he had a private agenda, however I hoped he was stubborn enough to get things done, I really thought he would see it through until the end either way. Now it seems like all he has managed to achieve is getting those who are disillusioned with the current state of affairs more depressed with things, and those who tend only to pay attention to the main stream media are still unaware that there were problems boiling under the surface.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 17 Jun 2014, 2:36 pm

Max posts reached, starting new thread asap.

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