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England ODI in Australia

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Post by jimbohammers Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:53 pm

No rest for the wicked, England's first ODI against Australia starts early Sunday morning.

What would your team be?


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Post by Stella Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:56 pm

Cook
Bell
Morgan
Root
Bopara
Stokes
Buttler
Tredwell
Broad
Rankin
Briggs
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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:18 pm

Cook
Bell
Root
Morgan
Bopara
Stokes
Buttler
Wokes
Broad
Tredwell
Finn

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:21 pm

Id have Finn for Rankin and Borthwick for Briggs Stella.

Rankin needs to be taken out and shot, Finn deserves a shot on the tour. Briggs isnt that much of a better bowler than Borthwick that Id want to see that lengthy a tail, and England have happily used both Stokes and Bopara as 10 over bowlers...theres no need for 6 in a side when you have additional support from Root as well.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:51 pm

Yeah, with Root and Bopara in there, playing Borthwick won't be a bad call at all.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:51 pm

Borthwick's not in the ODI squad is he?

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Post by Stella Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Don't think he is, unless he's being added, like Woakes?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/squad/698917.html
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Isnt he? Oh right!

Well in that case I guess it depends do they want two spinners and Bopara / Root / KP as slow options on these pitches?
Id guess they go with the extra seamer ...woakes or Bresnan. The problem then being we are back to a bunch of fast medium right armers offering little variety.

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Post by Stella Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:10 pm

Four seamers plus Bopara may be a little lob-sided? Root is only a fill in bowler, if things go wrong.
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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:19 pm

If Borthwick isn't there in the squad, then I'll go with Tredwell as the only spinner. It is a shame that they haven't included Borthwick in the ODI squad. The formats are different and the larger number of loose balls that he tends to offer might have put the selectors off, but at least we could have figured out whether his bowling is likely to develop into international quality in the near future so that he can play a role with the test side.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:20 pm

I'd go for:

Cook
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Bopara
Stokes
Buttler
Broad
Tredwell
Jordan
Finn

Basically 'cause I'd like to have a closer look at a couple of newer players.

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Post by Mike Selig Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:02 pm

I think it's much tougher to bowl spin these days with the field restrictions TBH.

Rankin did pretty well in the ODIs v Aus in the summer. I know he didn't look all that threatening in the tests, but his length in ODIs is hard to get away and as such I'm not sure what he's deserved to be dropped.

Finn has to play surely.

Stokes's improvement with the bat means he can surely be trusted to bat at 6 or 7 and allow England to play 5 specialist bowlers (including him) rather than muddling through Root/Bopara for 10 overs.

There seems to be a lack of top order batsmen in the squad - I wouldn't be surprised if Carberry plays... I would actually have liked Cook to have a break.

I would go
Bell
Cook
Ballance
Morgan
Bopara/Root (currently Bopara)
Buttler
Stokes
Broad
Tredwell
Finn
Rankin

with Jordan, Root, and Briggs to have some matches as well.

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Post by msp83 Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:18 pm

Rankin didn't do too badly in the ODIs last summer. But is he fit and ready to play? England just can't afford to have a repeat of what happened in the test.
What has Ballance done to get Root dropped from the side? And Ballance is more of a middle order player, more 5 than 3? The demands of the ODI game to get the scoreboard going might just be the tonic that Root needs to rediscover the vitality of his batting.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:28 pm

Stella wrote:Four seamers plus Bopara may be a little lob-sided? Root is only a fill in bowler, if things go wrong.

No ..Tredwell + Bopara and Root and 4 quickishes (Stokes/Finn (form allowing)/Broad + woakes or Breadvan) is what I was suggesting in the absence of Borthwick. 1 full time spinner, a slow bowler who can fill 10 overs effectively and a part time option is plenty of balance. The issue for me is the lack of variation in our fast mediums.

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Post by Stella Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:45 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Stella wrote:Four seamers plus Bopara may be a little lob-sided? Root is only a fill in bowler, if things go wrong.

No ..Tredwell + Bopara and Root and 4 quickishes (Stokes/Finn (form allowing)/Broad + woakes or Breadvan) is what I was suggesting in the absence of Borthwick. 1 full time spinner, a slow bowler who can fill 10 overs effectively and a part time option is plenty of balance. The issue for me is the lack of variation in our fast mediums.

Ok, so giving Root a few. I personally think Bopara can bowl 10 overs, or at least 8, which is why I like two spinners, Bopara plus 3 seamers, including, Stokes, Rankin, or perhaps Finn, and Broad.
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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:19 pm

I'm surprised all you guys want to play Cook. Nothing to do with vindictiveness on my part (honest!) but I would leave him out fot the first couple of these ODIs. They're not particularly significant - more important for him to have a break on the beach and try to clear his head.

Do agree with others that we seem to have missed a trick in not calling up Borthwick. Being a part of the ODI squad with the odd game would have seemed an ideal way of further integrating him into the England set up and seeing how he coped. Whilst I'm some way from being convinced about him, that doesn't mean he should be denied opportunity.

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Post by Mike Selig Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:23 pm

Guildford I can only point out a phrase in my above post: "I would actually have liked Cook to have a break."

I agree only partially about Borthwick: it is very hard bowling spin nowadays in ODIs, and even harder bowling leg-spin. To take a most recent example, Fawad Ahmed bowled pretty well against England but was rarely going at under 7...

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:45 pm

The ODI always seems to be a bit of a side show to the test series.  It is only the world cup that I can really muster much of an interest in them.  I have noted that in the past England haven't done too well in them compared to other major cricketing nations. The ODI "end of party" (post test series) competition usually affords an opportunity for the team losing the test series to regain a bit of confidence and "dignity" if they manage to win a few.

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Post by Guest Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:49 pm

ps Is Trott much of a ODI or twenty-twenty player. A bit of biff smash wallop might be a great catharsis.

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Post by Duty281 Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:50 pm

Nore Staat wrote:The ODI always seems to be a bit of a side show to the test series.  It is only the world cup that I can really muster much of an interest in them.  I have noted that in the past England haven't done too well in them compared to other major cricketing nations.  The ODI "end of party" (post test series) competition usually affords an opportunity for the team losing the test series to regain a bit of confidence and "dignity" if they manage to win a few.

Agreed. ODIs and T20s should always be before Tests in an itinerary.

These ODIs and T20s that England are about to play against Australia and the Windies very much have an air of "so what?" attached to them.

8 ODIs and 6 T20s against those two countries, with two practice games wedged in -yawwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn

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Post by guildfordbat Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:00 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Guildford I can only point out a phrase in my above post: "I would actually have liked Cook to have a break."

I agree only partially about Borthwick: it is very hard bowling spin nowadays in ODIs, and even harder bowling leg-spin. To take a most recent example, Fawad Ahmed bowled pretty well against England but was rarely going at under 7...

Mike - whoops, sorry, missed your comment - only saw Cook's name in your team.

Appreciate the difficulty for Borthwick and, in particular, his type of bowling. However, most ODI teams nowadays contain 6 or 7 bowling options so a safety net should be there if he gets carted from the off. With him also having some definite batting and fielding abilities, it wouldn't be as if we were banking everything on a leg spinning version of Panesar. Might not have worked and might have been too soon but I don't see too much to be lost from this particular series given where we're coming from.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:50 am

Well apparently Broad is being rested for the first two ODIs

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:53 am

guildfordbat wrote:I'm surprised all you guys want to play Cook. Nothing to do with vindictiveness on my part (honest!) but I would leave him out fot the first couple of these ODIs. They're not particularly significant - more important for him to have a break on the beach and try to clear his head.

Do agree with others that we seem to have missed a trick in not calling up Borthwick. Being a part of the ODI squad with the odd game would have seemed an ideal way of further integrating him into the England set up and seeing how he coped. Whilst I'm some way from being convinced about him, that doesn't mean he should be denied opportunity.

Id agree with that too but its not going to happen. As much as anything it would add fire to the hype around his captaincy.
Instead they have done it to Broad, who in fairness does need a rest after carrying the bowling for 5 tests.
Also with Cook, who do they have to replace him as an opener with Trott out? Only Carberry. And I have no idea why hes in the (ODI) squad in the first place.

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Post by Stella Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:02 am

I'd prefer Cook to concentrate on tests, but may as well pick him as he's in the squad.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:13 am

Id rather he forgot the tests and Im sure he does too Wink


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Post by Guest Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:04 pm

Broad being rested for first 2 odi's, i don't have a problem with that. Johnson rested for first odi and Watson the 2nd one.

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