Forget Flashy. What can your team do better in the basics?

Consistency is hard to achieve in any sport. Rugby is no different and there are many factors to consider in why only very few teams can lay claim to any sort of consistency. You do yourselves a great disservice though if you are unable to master the basics.

If you take teams like SA and NZ who have enjoyed consistency throughout their history one thing you quickly realise is that they have been very effective in doing what they do well. They do it so well that other teams find it hard to counter. They know what they're going to face but they do it so well that you can't seem to do anything about it. It's like playing slaps with somebody who's intimidatingly good. You know the slap's coming but you just can't seem to get your hand out of the way in time. The Boks have a Lineout, you know it's going to one player, you know they're going to drive to the line and damn it they've scored.

Sometimes I watch games and think how did they not score then. Running laterally, not straightening up the attack, not drawing your opposite and passing into space, not running at the retreating player's 'weak' shoulder, not running in support of a player, bad body position.

What basics do you think are lacking too often in your teams?

This is the one thing I find remarkable about the boks this year. Watch their games in detail and you will see that Flip took the ball every time in the lineout... yet they always secured. Its one area I thought teams would target but never did.

He's not overtly tall (2m tall) and he's not overtly light with huge lifters. But there is a confidence and authority about the lineout which you see only in guys like Tom Croft.

Its so important to have a well functioning set piece... yes there are more rucks but you need to be able to take your opportunities and when you get a penalty your players must have confidence if they take a scrum or kick to the corner.

Sometimes I see it with Scotland. Good lineout generally but if they lose 1 or 2 in a row they will lose the next 5 as you can see the confidence go in the forwards faces.

I haven't seen a bok side lacking self confidence in 10 years regardless of their form or not.

For Wales its definately the lineout.

Ping pong kicking needs to be done away with.

Another pet hate of mine is a missed pass when you have an overlap - THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT !

South Africa's season last year masked some real issues that it is easily overlooked.

Yes the line out is simple and worked for the most part, but by the end of the AI's it did become predictable and the French in particular managed to steal a number of our balls.

The problem with the line out drive is not the fact that they use it often, but there is an issue which does not only come into play at the line out drives, but also in other aspects of their game.

Game awareness.

Throughout last season the troops followed the game plan (whichever one was decied on for the specific match) to the tee, however within that game plan the match situation was often ignored and due to the lack of awareness of where the game is, they never showed any ability to adapt.

That for me is the one aspect that they failed in miserably. In JHB they led, had four tries and should have adapted their style of play to the match situation, but they didn't.

Hopefully that intelligence or awareness will be worked on this year.

Matfield was the lineout king... not because he took the ball in all the time but because he was intelligent and a team man. If he was heavily marked he simply called a Smith or Russouw move. A lot of jumpers want to be the man, its their role and they want to take responsibility. Andries Bekker often fell down here.

I think England are at the stage where ive been overly criticial in that all we do is the basics well...which is an injustice to them and what they are achieving.

Personally i'd like to see us stand a little bit flatter in attack.

As school boys we're taught the basics like to run to gaps, and look for the offload. And support runners are taught to follow and run off the shoulder anticipating that off load. Aside from Ashton, we see very few examples of this from the England team...and i think just getting to grips with this could change England considerably...

Also my pet hate!
When a player has the ball..and be it running into contact or into the gap...do so at top speed and power...its not rocket science.
How often do i see England players slowing down going in to contact....or going down to the ground before they've even made contact with the defenders. It makes it so much easier to stop an attacker, than if they are coming at you at full pelt like a steam train.
Plus this takes more than one defender , which creates space elsewhere...

Andrew Sheridan was one of the biggest culprits for that...ironic for the size of him.

Finally, the lineout seemed to work better in the AI's...an area we have been concerned with.

A team like england should simply watch the boks attack.. it suits them best.

The blitzkrieg waves of runners coming in full pelt into the line. Only Tuilagi ever does this for England... other than that its simple jog, receive pass and accelerate.

simple but hardly ever done.

Bokks have the players to do it though

Wynand Olivier was never in a million years better then Barritt. Every game they ever faced off Barritt came off superior in SR and CC.

But Olivier used this all the time for the boks with decent levels of success. Barritt is never used in this respect. Takes the ball in yes but there is a big difference taking the ball 5m back to flat on the line.

Barritt isn't exactly an attacking threat though is he ?

munkian wrote:Barritt isn't exactly an attacking threat though is he ?

taking the ball in 5 metres back no. If he's utilised better then he'd be a far greater threat.

As I said before, Olivier was a far worse player both in attack and defence yet he was in a setup which maximised his skills. At the moment Barritt is not.

munkian wrote:For Wales its definately the lineout.

Ping pong  kicking needs to be done away with.

Another pet hate of mine is a missed pass when you have an overlap - THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT !

Jiffy said the same thing

The Welsh line out is consistently shocking.

But our biggest problem remains being slow out of the blocks, decision making and intensity

We ship points so early and seem to lack focus and concentration in the early stages of a game

I believe Wales play catch up rugby as well as any team in the world and would love to see that stats as to how many times we come from behind to win

When a game loosens up we improve performance but when it is tight we often seem like rabbits in the headlights.

Scratch wrote:The Welsh line out is consistently shocking.

But our biggest problem remains being slow out of the blocks, decision making and intensity

We ship points so early and seem to lack focus and concentration in the early stages of a game

I believe Wales play catch up rugby as well as any team in the world and would love to see that stats as to how many times we come from behind to win

When a game loosens up we improve performance but when it is tight we often seem like rabbits in the headlights.

If I did this correctly then these are the stats.

Since 01 Jan 1996

Wales have been behind at halftime in 110 matches, they managed to win 20 of those matches.

Biltong wrote:

Scratch wrote:The Welsh line out is consistently shocking.

But our biggest problem remains being slow out of the blocks, decision making and intensity

We ship points so early and seem to lack focus and concentration in the early stages of a game

I believe Wales play catch up rugby as well as any team in the world and would love to see that stats as to how many times we come from behind to win

When a game loosens up we improve performance but when it is tight we often seem like rabbits in the headlights.

If I did this correctly then these are the stats.

Since 01 Jan 1996

Wales have been behind at halftime in 110 matches, they managed to win 20 of those matches.

nice one, what are you using to do that Bilt?

any way of comparing it with england ireland and france or is that very laborious?

I'll quickly check that for you, I use Scrum.com.

Biltong wrote:I'll quickly check that for you, I use Scrum.com.

thanks biltong

Here is the link for all the teams since ajan 1996 when they were behind at halftime. SCRUM.COM

England has been behind in 71 matches at halftime and won 15
Ireland has been behind in 70 matches and won 8

Wales 19.09%
England 22.53%
Ireland 12.85%

Now that is interesting because England don't have a rep like Wales for catch up but clearly England and Wales have similar form in getting the win...yet clearly England don't fall behind so much!

Thanks again Biltong

Intercept passes. I don't have any stats, but I'm sure NZ three more of them in the last four years than any other team.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Intercept passes. I don't have any stats, but I'm sure NZ three more of them in the last four years than any other team.

it is because of the style of play. They play high risk high reward, I would think Australia might be worse off though.

Scratch wrote:Now that is interesting because England don't have a rep like Wales for catch up but clearly England and Wales have similar form in getting the win...yet clearly England don't fall behind so much!

Thanks again Biltong

no worries scratch.

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Intercept passes. I don't have any stats, but I'm sure NZ three more of them in the last four years than any other team.

it is because of the style of play. They play high risk high reward, I would think Australia might be worse off though.

Sorry meant "threw" not "three". I'm sure it's more than three...

Wales- Play the full 80. too often we see Wales not be up for the first 30 or so minutes of the match, only to pull off a remarkably impressive performance until it comes to the final leg, where they lose attacking structure, make crucial poor kicks and allow for overlaps. So if I could choose one thing id say the full 80 mentality is needed

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Intercept passes. I don't have any stats, but I'm sure NZ three more of them in the last four years than any other team.

it is because of the style of play. They play high risk high reward, I would think Australia might be worse off though.

Yes, the Wallabies seem to be notorious for doing that.

Case study: Quade Cooper.
You can see the defender anticipating the pass (we all can) and yet he still throws it. He needs to cut that rubbish out and think about the probable outcome rather than any low-percentage "reward".

Of course there's also the old gem of our supposedly inferior forward play. It's as though they are not patient enough, fall short in technical prowess and telegraph their indiscretions to the ref (and fans) on a consistent basis. Maybe there have been some minor improvements in recent years, now and then... but I never feel confident watching them ply their trade. Surely they have had enough big-match practise and seen enough video analysis to rectify this flaw?

Kia, nails it on the head in the OP.

Australia just can't seem to consistently control all of the critical factors of playing rugby for any prolonged period of time. You'd think they'd take a leaf out of our RL player's mentality and psychological approach to their game - minimise the silly errors and do the simple things properly!

LB when I think of the Wales game last year it's a classic example of where Australia should've won by a considerably bigger margin. Cooper was an example of the flair as indeed was Folau's line breaking ability but the latter was guilty of making the break, for example, having a man outside, a simple draw and pass situation and he takes the line on himself and botches a certain try.

GE the intercept pass is a good call for NZ. It's a difficult balance when running at full pace to decide whether to give the pass or hold on but certainly there's work to be done in that regard.

Basics that rile me no end are not kicking the ball out into touch when the team needs it. Be it a penalty kick going for too much territory, missing touch when your forwards are out on their feet after having won turnover ball and an overlap is not on. Equally bad is making touch when the ball has been passed back into the 22, on kickoffs and on attack.

Kicking with no chasing and too long kicks also endanger the furniture. Kicking inside your 22 when the ball is screaming out to go through the hands and release a player out wide.

Running laterally instead of passing. You might be very fast but the ball passed will beat you every time. If you're a fatty in the centre of the field know how to catch and pass. If you spill the ball or get in the way of a back I will join a Lineout and tell you to stand at first receiver.

Anticipate what will happen next. Be in tune with the players around me. If a player steps inside from the wing stay on the wing. He is making space for you: do not step inside as well. Similarly do not run ahead of a potential pass. If a player makes a line break be in a place where you anticipated that occurring. Not oh wow he got through look at him go!

Linebreaker wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Intercept passes. I don't have any stats, but I'm sure NZ three more of them in the last four years than any other team.

it is because of the style of play. They play high risk high reward, I would think Australia might be worse off though.

Yes, the Wallabies seem to be notorious for doing that.

Case study: Quade Cooper.
You can see the defender anticipating the pass (we all can) and yet he still throws it. He needs to cut that rubbish out and think about the probable outcome rather than any low-percentage "reward".

Of course there's also the old gem of our supposedly inferior forward play. It's as though they are not patient enough, fall short in technical prowess and telegraph their indiscretions to the ref (and fans) on a consistent basis. Maybe there have been some minor improvements in recent years, now and then... but I never feel confident watching them ply their trade. Surely they have had enough big-match practise and seen enough video analysis to rectify this flaw?

Kia, nails it on the head in the OP.

Australia just can't seem to consistently control all of the critical factors of playing rugby for any prolonged period of time. You'd think they'd take a leaf out of our RL player's mentality and psychological approach to their game - minimise the silly errors and do the simple things properly!

To be fair though, Quade's wide cut out is lightening. I recall someone (was it Kia? or Taylor?) predicting that Quade would rip up some of the NH teams with it, then bang! it happened in the game and there was a certain. amount. of. online. gloating....

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Intercept passes. I don't have any stats, but I'm sure NZ three more of them in the last four years than any other team.

it is because of the style of play. They play high risk high reward, I would think Australia might be worse off though.

Yes, the Wallabies seem to be notorious for doing that.

Case study: Quade Cooper.
You can see the defender anticipating the pass (we all can) and yet he still throws it. He needs to cut that rubbish out and think about the probable outcome rather than any low-percentage "reward".

Of course there's also the old gem of our supposedly inferior forward play. It's as though they are not patient enough, fall short in technical prowess and telegraph their indiscretions to the ref (and fans) on a consistent basis. Maybe there have been some minor improvements in recent years, now and then... but I never feel confident watching them ply their trade. Surely they have had enough big-match practise and seen enough video analysis to rectify this flaw?

Kia, nails it on the head in the OP.

Australia just can't seem to consistently control all of the critical factors of playing rugby for any prolonged period of time. You'd think they'd take a leaf out of our RL player's mentality and psychological approach to their game - minimise the silly errors and do the simple things properly!

To be fair though, Quade's wide cut out is lightening. I recall someone (was it Kia? or Taylor?) predicting that Quade would rip up some of the NH teams with it, then bang! it happened in the game and there was a certain. amount. of. online. gloating....

Yes, they are quick but it's just that sometimes he seems unaware of the closeness of the opposition defence and it's a very fine line.

Another gripe I have is the "no-look" pass (especially when they are not necessary in a certain situation) and the passer is oblivious to the pressure they are putting on the potential receiver. Great when they come off though.

Yep. No look pass = no work pass.

Great call on the intercepts GE.

I'd say a bugbear of mine has been NZ not committing enough numbers to the breakdown early on. We've lost the initiative on a few occasions and had to rely on aerobic fitness to get over the line. The defence is extremely miserly and scrambles very well so I think this can be rectified.

Other than that-well our lineout's getting better and better. The scrum isn't rock solid for mine. That's probably the other issue.

One basic skill I'd like to commend is NZ's passing. The only team I've seen which has rivalled the current AB side for passing is the 99-01 Wallabies. Just so precise, pass after pass. It only takes one average pass for a movement to break down and so many NZ tries have been created from multiple passing movements where each pass has been immaculate.

Chase the god damn ball when its kicked, we always hear a kick is only as good as the chase. Well maybe that why our (Wales) kicks are usually p poor cos our chase game is non existent on occasions.

Watch JP Pietersen, he chases everything and always hassles the catcher, as an ex (long time ago) winger this was basics to me and something that infuriates me now when I don't see it.

Scrum and breakdown
basically we are doing half a job on these two right now. Sort them out and we would be hard to beat.

Guys, forgot to tell you.

Mum had dinner with Jack Hazlett just before Christmas.

Jack Hazlett ...the guy with less hair behind Stan Meads.

He looks like this now. 2009 Cap Ceremony

He was visiting his sister's family in Sydney. Mum has known Jack since the late 50s. She saw him break some Lions player jaw in front of the Queen at Carisbrook as a schoolgirl in the 60s.

When Mum asked him what he thought about the current crop he was quite scathing. Although I didn't get all the detail - he was offended by the 2012 loss to England and said they needed "tougher blokes" wearing the All Black shirt... or something like that and that the forwards were not as intimidating to the opposition as they were in his years. He was a little worried about NZ's chance in the 2015 RWC too... said they need to lift their game if they want to win it.

There's some truth to what he says LB - we miss the likes of Brad Thorn or Kaino in the pack -but there's also an element of in my day I used to walk 15 miles to school in the driving snow. If NZ played a similar game to how they played in his day, his comments would seem a lot more pertinent. Unfortunately, they don't and other coutries have an edge up front now but they didn't have the edge in the backs that we often have.

NZ has shown it's capable of lifting its game when required. The big thing is whether they can do that at the right time in the knockout games. Some squeaky wins in the tour up north but even though in his mind they are no longer physically tough, they sure proved they are mentally tough and that's probably better to have in a World Cup squad than being a level above in skill or grunt.

Yeah Kia, they are typical old Southland farmer comments... all about the physicality of the contest and not much admiration for the way the game has changed in the last 50 years. He probably also has a different appreciation of the mental approach to rugby these days or is reluctant to admit that it's a whole new ball game in the 21st C.

I keep hearing the story of how they (family and friends.. but led by Jack) pinned one of the Hazlett brothers down just before his wedding day and broke his nose... they said he looked "too pretty". Tough baastards!

Hi.,bored just looking at posts missed this one looks interesting firstly basics are simple.
Catch,tackle,pass etc.everything you learn`t at school tactics and strategy is another
thing.
Example the Bulls/Boks driving maul was once a certain try score not now at least by
NZ sides.They learn`t how to split the drive into pods and break it up.
Jack Hazlett`s comments maybe pertinent BUT he was a member of one of the Great
All Blacks Packs.Ken Gray,McLeod,Himself,Meads Brothers,Tremain,Lochore ,Nathan,
Lineout options at 2,3,5,7 and 8.Tremain the Greatest lineout driver of his era.When
HE went out of the game in 1968 so did the great AB`s driving game the new boys
could`nt replicate it.
Also read writing off McCaw and Carter,IF anyone bothered to notice BOTH prior to
injury were on top of there games.
McCaw just back and wins MOM award in first game,IF anyone bothered to notice
during the AI`s he was doing the graft.
While Read was running around in one game HE was the man who won the ball
at the Ruck.He was running in support of the try scorer if he needed it not just
pass the ball on then give up.
Rugby is a team game not for the prima donnas in Otago in the reign of saint Vic.
He never praised a player only the team,forwards served backs etc.you who won
the ball at the ruck/maul etc.Were as important as the player who scored the try.

Many say the AB's get there because they do the basics well. Very well at times.

For me its more about doing the basics with the right attitude, purpose.

As Geordiefalcon and Bedfordwelsh infer above when you're going to take the ball up, take it up with attitude, aggression, take it up as though you'll break through every time, rather than start turning for support before you're even touched.

And if you going to kick the ball to the opposition, do it because you're going to get it back and score- get under it, let them know its not their ball to take- every single time.

Certainly its basics, kicking and passing are basics, but kicking and passing with purpose, direction and most of all attitude is where doing the basics pays off.

No team ever gets tries through basic passes, or basic kicks, ones that just go from hand to hand with no idea or energy behind them. And you see a lot of that. Pass, pass, pass, fall down...pass, pass, pass fall down, and after a while everyones relieved when theres a break in play- a knock on, ball goes out etc. Some sides are happy to do that all day long so long as they still have the ball.