England vs Wales 9th March

First topic message reminder :

Let's look towards the next game after getting ourselves back on track against France, just like last year, after the Irish put the spanner in the works.

the reality is that Wales are still not used to being favourites. and they are not used to the criticism and microscope that ALWAYS comes the way of favourites in every sport.

so they think its personal, or anti welsh or something.

if wales were consistently bottom of the table, no-one would be saying anything. everyone likes to see the underdog do well.

Thats not true, we all hated wales just as much when they were bottom   

quinsforever wrote:the reality is that Wales are still not used to being favourites. and they are not used to the criticism and microscope that ALWAYS comes the way of favourites in every sport.

To be fair, the English media is the biggest culprit when it comes to focusing on the England rugby team. Its almost as if they want England to fail, the media storm surrounding them at the RWC11 was absolutely shocking. There are your true ABE's...

Most people I know all want Wales to lose whoever they play. They become unbearably cocky when they win. They strut like cockerels and block this board. Its far better when they lose. Keeps them humble.

Nachos Jones wrote:

quinsforever wrote:the reality is that Wales are still not used to being favourites. and they are not used to the criticism and microscope that ALWAYS comes the way of favourites in every sport.

To be fair, the English media is the biggest culprit when it comes to focusing on the England rugby team. Its almost as if they want England to fail, the media storm surrounding them at the RWC11 was absolutely shocking. There are your true ABE's...

Tabloids = soccer tarts who do not understand and in fact resent the sportsmanship lessons of rugby union. Kind of inverse snobbery. As to Wales = favourites.... so everyone wants to see a fave stumble whatever the sport. I'd rather watch Wales RU than England AFootball and I'm English.

i'd pretty much rather watch anyone play rugby union than watch england play football. was my sport growing up but i find player behaviour on and off pitch appalling. cant bring myself to watch.

 Quins, you sum me up there too. I grew up in East London when Moore Hurst and Peters were our football heroes, real gentlemen. Lost interest when football turned histrionic in the 70s. I played rugby instead and actually had no problem admiring the great Wales sides of that time.

The Saint wrote:England rugby 'fans' have been coat-tailing Aus wins over Wales for years, I've never quite seen anything like it tbh and it just makes you guys look really stupid. It appears they've now moved on to the Irish.

Oh and now we're back to the rankings chat... Yeah, those IRB RWC group seedings really helped you put a try past us in the last 3 encounters didn't they...oh wait, they didn't. That was Steve Walsh, et al!

Who? The blatant wums in here? Your such a poor Wales fans martyr Saint. Your better than that fella. Your on the rugby banter FB page right? If you want coat tailing then that's the place. Bit more sanity and knowledge on v2 thank   

Will Gatland have a "cheat" up his sleeve? I've always believed that one of the reasons Nz have been so successful is that they have always brought a cheat to the game that no other team has thought of. One I remember is the Nz front row would start their scrum engagement from a standing position and drive downwards with power.  The effect was to collapse the scrum and get a penalty. It was very successful until it was outlawed. Gatland coming from the same stable as it were could be thinking similarly. Well done if he does. It means he will have out thought bomber.

Ps. By "cheat" I mean "new ways to interpret the law"

englandglory4ever wrote:Most people I know all want Wales to lose whoever they play

Same here (apart from the Welsh ones ofcourse)

I have to watch england football games- I am drawn in like a butterfly to a light... Its not good for me though. I dont enjoy wathcing them.. I just do. Same with palace most of the time. But that is what being a fan is all about isnt it..

I watch every game in the 6nations.. But then i also try and watch every game in the RWC's and footy WC's

I usually prefer watching a good game of neutral rugby. Far less stressful, than watching your home team...

Steffan wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Most people I know all want Wales to lose whoever they play

Same here (apart from the Welsh ones ofcourse)

Actually there is one team English people I know cheer on Wales against...and that is the French

For some reason most English people I know dislike the France at sport (and just in general really)

Steffan wrote:

Steffan wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Most people I know all want Wales to lose whoever they play

Same here (apart from the Welsh ones ofcourse)

Actually there is one team English people I know cheer on Wales against...and that is the French

For some reason most English people I know dislike the France at sport (and just in general really)

I really like the French. They're my 2nd team in the 6Ns after England.

Sorry to go against your 'theory'

Steffan most english people dont hate any nation in sport.

its not about that..

I have no problem with the french- but i do support all home nations against them- but that is due to my localised support

Cyril wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Steffan wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Most people I know all want Wales to lose whoever they play

Same here (apart from the Welsh ones ofcourse)

Actually there is one team English people I know cheer on Wales against...and that is the French

For some reason most English people I know dislike the France at sport (and just in general really)

I really like the French. They're my 2nd team in the 6Ns after England.

Sorry to go against your 'theory'

They are my 3rd team after Italy

you support italy?

why?

mystiroakey wrote:Steffan most english people dont hate any nation in sport

I never said anyone English hated France in rugby just disliked them

I have met quite a few English football fans who hate Germany but you get that in football in general so im not just singling out England there

mystiroakey wrote:you support italy?

why?

I dont support them but they are my second team

Well why not they are the underdogs usually and Italy is a nice country

italy is a nice country so are the other 5 as well!

But what you are saying is your second team is based around it being the worst team only- therefore if italy got good- you would pick the later worst team?

Can we play Ireland again? At least they had a sense of humour (and the decency to lose)

the truth is though- if you are a supporter of a team that is fighting for the 6 nations- you will naturally support italy the most - because you want them to take points off the other teams.. as they have zero chance of ever winning it.

I admire German footy and French rugby (well the good old stuff) never disliked either country at sport. Rivalry oh yes... but dislike... No !

gregortree wrote:I admire German footy and French rugby (well the  good old stuff) never disliked either country at sport. Rivalry oh yes... but  dislike... No !

PLUS 1

I actually like Italys brand of rugby. I know its a bit erratic but they are involved in some exciting games at times

When Italy do win a game- it is allways a massive buzz.

Not sure i like there game , but the Italy v Scotland was a classic.. Loved every minute

Yea the stress levels against Ireland were just too much! I find even when England get more then a score ahead though it still doesn't stave off the jitters! You just know that they can take their foot off the gas and let the opposition back in at a moments notice.

mystiroakey wrote:the truth is though- if you are a supporter of a team that is fighting for the 6 nations- you will naturally support italy the most - because you want them to take points off the other teams.. as they have zero chance of ever winning it.

Surely you mean the Sottish French?

englandglory4ever wrote:Most people I know all want Wales to lose whoever they play. They become unbearably cocky when they win. They strut like cockerels and block this board. Its far better when they lose. Keeps them humble.

Whereas England are so humble that they behave as if the GB national anthem belongs to them alone. When England rugby teams line up singing an England-only anthem instead of God Save the Queen which belongs to all of us, maybe they'll have earned the right to lecture others about being "humble".

"Whereas England are so humble that they behave as if the UK national anthem belongs to them alone."

this is the problem- most of want out own anthem- its forced on to us mate.. Its not us Humble Englanders with the problem..

mystiroakey wrote:"Whereas England are so humble that they behave as if the UK national anthem belongs to them alone."

this is the problem- most of want out own anthem- its forced on to us mate.. Its not us Humble Englanders with the problem..

Fair comment. It sounds as if the RFU needs to think a bit harder. While they're at it, they could ponder why a noisy crowd at Twickenham is a problem - according to the England attack coach - when noisy crowds everywhere else are taken as a plus for the home sides.

optimist wrote:While they're at it, they could ponder why a noisy crowd at Twickenham is a problem - according to the England attack coach - when noisy crowds everywhere else are taken as a plus for the home sides.

Brian Moore mentioned after the game that he thought that crowd was the loudest he'd ever heard at Twickenham. It would be interesting to know what the Irish players thought. Then again, if the noise did put them off, I suspect they'd want to keep that to themselves.

quinsforever wrote:the reality is that Wales are still not used to being favourites. and they are not used to the criticism and microscope that ALWAYS comes the way of favourites in every sport.

so they think its personal, or anti welsh or something.

if wales were consistently bottom of the table, no-one would be saying anything. everyone likes to see the underdog do well.

We have never been the underdog to england fact.

Rugby Fan wrote:

optimist wrote:While they're at it, they could ponder why a noisy crowd at Twickenham is a problem - according to the England attack coach - when noisy crowds everywhere else are taken as a plus for the home sides.

Brian Moore mentioned after the game that he thought that crowd was the loudest he'd ever heard at Twickenham. It would be interesting to know what the Irish players thought. Then again, if the noise did put them off, I suspect they'd want to keep that to themselves.

What's this about??

yappysnap wrote:What's this about??

Optimist is referring to a new drill Mike Catt introduced in training. Some player apparently said they couldn't hear the calls, so Catt wants them to use their eyes more rather than rely on calls.

https://www.606v2.com/t52285-england-players-encouraged-to-pay-attention-to-what-is-happening

You'd think noise is always a problem but I thought it was worth noting Moore's observation that it seemed even louder to him last weekend.

I imagine its difficult for the forwards to hear Tom Youngs shouting " Im going to overthrow this one"

Rugby Fan wrote:

yappysnap wrote:What's this about??

Optimist is referring to a new drill Mike Catt introduced in training. Some player apparently said they couldn't hear the calls, so Catt wants them to use their eyes more rather than rely on calls.

https://www.606v2.com/t52285-england-players-encouraged-to-pay-attention-to-what-is-happening

You'd think noise is always a problem but I thought it was worth noting Moore's observation that it seemed even louder to him last weekend.

According to the Daily Telegraph a couple of days ago, Mike Catt is using flashing disco lights of different colours, to train players to rely more on visual signals than audible ones which were drowned out by the crowd in the game against Ireland and, according to Catt, led to mistakes by some England players!

optimist wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

yappysnap wrote:What's this about??

Optimist is referring to a new drill Mike Catt introduced in training. Some player apparently said they couldn't hear the calls, so Catt wants them to use their eyes more rather than rely on calls.

https://www.606v2.com/t52285-england-players-encouraged-to-pay-attention-to-what-is-happening

You'd think noise is always a problem but I thought it was worth noting Moore's observation that it seemed even louder to him last weekend.

According to the Daily Telegraph a couple of days ago, Mike Catt is using disco lights in training, to encourage players to rely more on visual signals than audible ones which were drowned out by the crowd in the game against Ireland and, according to Catt, led to mistakes by some England players.

Yes, with all that noise, use visual disco cues.
Maybe some coded dance steps before each play ?
I think the Irish use Mike Flatley in training.

I think some of our boys were suffering from night fever on Saturday - norovirus maybe?

gregortree wrote:

optimist wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

yappysnap wrote:What's this about??

Optimist is referring to a new drill Mike Catt introduced in training. Some player apparently said they couldn't hear the calls, so Catt wants them to use their eyes more rather than rely on calls.

https://www.606v2.com/t52285-england-players-encouraged-to-pay-attention-to-what-is-happening

You'd think noise is always a problem but I thought it was worth noting Moore's observation that it seemed even louder to him last weekend.

According to the Daily Telegraph a couple of days ago, Mike Catt is using disco lights in training, to encourage players to rely more on visual signals than audible ones which were drowned out by the crowd in the game against Ireland and, according to Catt, led to mistakes by some England players.

Yes, with all that noise, use visual disco cues.
Maybe some coded dance steps before each play ?
I think the Irish use Mike Flatley in training.

Here in Cardiff, I've heard that Welsh fans going to Twickenham are taking torches and coloured tissue paper!

optimist wrote:

gregortree wrote:

optimist wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

yappysnap wrote:What's this about??

Optimist is referring to a new drill Mike Catt introduced in training. Some player apparently said they couldn't hear the calls, so Catt wants them to use their eyes more rather than rely on calls.

https://www.606v2.com/t52285-england-players-encouraged-to-pay-attention-to-what-is-happening

You'd think noise is always a problem but I thought it was worth noting Moore's observation that it seemed even louder to him last weekend.

According to the Daily Telegraph a couple of days ago, Mike Catt is using disco lights in training, to encourage players to rely more on visual signals than audible ones which were drowned out by the crowd in the game against Ireland and, according to Catt, led to mistakes by some England players.

Yes, with all that noise, use visual disco cues.
Maybe some coded dance steps before each play ?
I think the Irish use Mike Flatley in training.

Here in Cardiff, I've heard that Welsh fans going to Twickenham are taking torches and coloured tissue paper!

Lurid pink cowboy hats and the bobbling white flesh are Wales' most effective weapons of mass distraction.
Although these don't travel in the kind of 'numbahs !' you see show up at the Millie.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

quinsforever wrote:the reality is that Wales are still not used to being favourites. and they are not used to the criticism and microscope that ALWAYS comes the way of favourites in every sport.

so they think its personal, or anti welsh or something.

if wales were consistently bottom of the table, no-one would be saying anything. everyone likes to see the underdog do well.

We have never been the underdog to england fact.

in your mind maybe. but there are definitely periods of time where each side has rightly been the underdog.

since 1990 england have won 20, wales 9
from 1965 to 1990 wales won 19, england won 4!

in spite of wales having won the last 2 6Ns matches, neither side is as clear favourite (or underdog) as england in the 90s/2000s or wales in the 70s and 80s

We were favourites in 2012. What happened there? Oh yeah, we Grand Slammed it again. Goodbye to another one of quinsforever's BS theories .

quinsforever wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

quinsforever wrote:the reality is that Wales are still not used to being favourites. and they are not used to the criticism and microscope that ALWAYS comes the way of favourites in every sport.

so they think its personal, or anti welsh or something.

if wales were consistently bottom of the table, no-one would be saying anything. everyone likes to see the underdog do well.

We have never been the underdog to england fact.

in your mind maybe. but there are definitely periods of time where each side has rightly been the underdog.

since 1990 england have won 20, wales 9
from 1965 to 1990 wales won 19, england won 4!

in spite of wales having won the last 2 6Ns matches, neither side is as clear favourite (or underdog) as england in the 90s/2000s or wales in the 70s and 80s

Dear Quins, thanks for looking it up.

Dear Rainbow,
Meanwhile you may wish to look up 'fact' and 'opinion' in the dictionary.
I agree with the fact that it is Wales 3-0 in last three encounters.
So you start favourites at Twickenham? right ?

mate, try bringing some actual data or relevant information to the discussion rather than your very silly points.

in every match there is a favourite. in almost every match there is a winner.

statistically, even if the result is a 50:50 toss-up, the favourite wins 50% of the time.

and just to correct you on a small point, England i seem to remember were actually favourites at the 2012 match at HQ as BOTH teams were in the running for a GS, and Wales had NEVER previously sealed a triple crown at HQ.

but dont let facts get in the way of your ranting.

The Saint wrote:We were favourites in 2012. What happened there? Oh yeah, we Grand Slammed it again. Goodbye to another one of quinsforever's BS theories .

I have not bothered to check, but what are the bookies saying this time ?

england more or less 2:1 favourites

Steffan wrote:England fans love seeing Wales lose. They just make out they dont. I remember being in a bar during the 2007 RWC in Cyprus and Wales were playing Canada and all the English rugby fans were cheering on the Canadians

Plus in the 2011 RWC when Wales lost to France all the English I know were loving it

Welsh people cheer on Englands opponents but at least we are honest about it where as England fans make out they dont care but are always willing to gloat when Wales lose to a Southern Hemisphere team etc

The 'anyone but Wales' attitude is starting to surface a lot more nowadays I find

You have a bit too much of an inflated opinion on your country.

Of course people would cheer on Canada against Wales; Canada are massive underdogs, and that's usually who people cheer on in this country...the underdog.

And I don't know an English person who was cheering on France at the time. I certainly wasn't.

Anyone but Wales? Don't flatter yourself.

quinsforever wrote:england more or less 2:1 favourites

Ladbokes have England at 4/9.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:england more or less 2:1 favourites

Ladbokes have England at 4/9.

suggest you have another think about that Taff. compare it to the odds for Ireland against Italy and then tell me who the favourites are

The Saint wrote:We were favourites in 2012. What happened there? Oh yeah, we Grand Slammed it again. Goodbye to another one of quinsforever's BS theories .

Now let's roll on to 2014. Bookies have England at 1:2 or 4:9 on, according to fellow posters.

Saint,
how about your theory ?
Were the odds an indicator for 2012 outcome ? and 2014 ?