Edinburgh v Ulster, 21 March

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Edinburgh v Ulster

Friday 21 March 2014
KO 19:45
Murrayfield Nematode Nursery

Referee: John Lacey (IRFU, 33rd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)

Massacre Not Televised

A. Teams:

I. Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Sam Beard
12 Andries Strauss
11 Tom Brown
10 Carl Bezuidenhout
09 Grayson Hart

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Izak van der Westhuizen
06 Mike Coman CAPTAIN
07 Roddy Grant
08 Cornell Du Preez

16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blaauw
18 Ewan McQuillin
19 Ollie Atkins
20 Tomas Leonardi
21 Sean Kennedy
22 Harry Leonard
23 Nick De Luca

II. Ulster

01) Tom Court
02) Rob Herring
03) John Afoa
04) Johann Muller (c)
05) Iain Henderson
06) Stephen Ferris
07) Sean Doyle
08) Roger Wilson
09) Michael Heaney
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Craig Gilroy
12) Luke Marshall
13) Darren Cave
14) Tommy Bowe
15) Jared Payne

16) Niall Annett
17) Andrew Warwick
18) Ricky Lutton
19) Dan Tuohy
20) Nick Williams
21) Robbie Diack
22) Paul Marshall
23) Stuart McCloskey

B. Form - head to head

28 Played 28
9 Wins 18
18 Losses 9
1 Draws 1
49 Tries 69
36 Conversions 47
62 Penalties 86
6 Drop Goals 3
521 Points 706
25 Avg. Age 26

C. Form - last season:

Fri 2 November 2012, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 45 - 20 Edinburgh Rugby
Ravenhill

Fri 22 March 2013, 19:30
Edinburgh Rugby 14 - 8 Ulster Rugby
Murrayfield

Wrap RP in cotton wool until the QF

Gusher just said it was ok for people to take turf home. The exact opposite of the message. Seriously like, he's kind of paid to be well read on the info surrounding a game. Clearly skim reading - pure lazy!

Jackson sounds like hes having a good game.

That's what you're meant to think. Dig a little deeper... gusher's an anarchist

They initially said they would be giving turf away- which is a bizarre thing at the best of the times- then they retracted that and advised the opposite, probably because someone pointed out that spreading an infestation of parasitic worms around wasn't a great idea.

Seriously, what would you do with a bit of turf? Stick it on the mantlepiece? Plant it in your back garden?

Whats the point?

Sounds like Iain Henderson is having a good game.

Notch wrote:They initially said they would be giving turf away- which is a bizarre thing at the best of the times- then they retracted that and advised the opposite, probably because someone pointed out that spreading an infestation of parasitic worms around wasn't a great idea.

Seriously, what would you do with a bit of turf? Stick it on the mantlepiece? Plant it in your back garden?

Whats the point?

Maybe if someone close to you was a massive fan and passed away you could lay it on their grave... Worms would have a field day!

A lovely sentiment... come on Ulster, see this one out.

More great defence and a great away win!!   

Great result given those conditions.
Well done lads   

Penalty count absolutely killing us - it surely isn't a coincidence that Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland are regularly on the wrong side of the ref?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Penalty count absolutely killing us - it surely isn't a coincidence that Edinburgh, Glasgow and Scotland are regularly on the wrong side of the ref?

It sounded like the penalty count was coming from Edinburgh not getting across the mainline and then Ulster were able to isolate the ball carrier, is that accurate?

We pretty much gave away every breakdown penalty possible tonight, and most of them were when in possession.

Am I right in thinking it was an Irish ref?

On the plus side, 6300 crowd!

Half of them from Ulster though...

That was a horrific game.

Aye. He is Irish. You think he was biased?

What happened with Henderson's yellow card? Was it a tip tackle?

Not saying he was biased, not at all, but as a professional league it's really not good enough. When Scottish refs ref our games if anything they are deliberately biased towards the other team!

It was a reckless tackle, nothing worse!

Thanks. Was thinking about any possible citing. Listening to the Scottish commentary, and seemed to suggest it's possible at the time. They didn't really question many of the refs decisions, but had the feeling that they weren't too happy with him.
I agree that we could do with a better choice of ref's. I would also say a better standard of TMO.

Penalty count was 16-4 against Edinburgh - that's incredible.

Seemed to me that Lacey wasn't blowing up for certain infringements; offside, obstruction, in from the side/off feet at the breakdown all of which Ulster were committing all night, but was policing not releasing really heavily. He was consistent, his interpretation seemed to suit Ulster however. His interpretation also seemed to favour the defending team which is odd.

Didn't have a good view of the Henderson incident, but a lot of guys claiming a spear, so would expect a citing.

This begs similar questions as the Scotland France game - given that it was a close competitive game where Edinburgh dominated large periods of possession, how could one team end up with quadruple the number of penalties? Especially since the majority of penalties were when we had the ball. I hate to think rugby is turning into a game where you're better off without the ball than with it if that makes sense!

Interested to hear what Solomons made of it.

That was cold,wet and miserable. I thought the ref was poor tonight, particularly policing the side of the ruck and the maul. Still, not a bad effort from Edinburgh, particularly the first and final quarters.

RDW I said the same thing on this forum during the 6n. Are we fundamentally missing the point at the breakdown? Being penalised in possession in the opponents 22 will kill any sides momentum. Must do better.

Well that was a waste of an evening. Du preez had a good game but apart from that edinburgh didn't really have many positives. Horrible weather and I cannot really remember a game with so few line breaks. Credit to the ulster team who kept it under control and there was a lot of fans who had made the journey from NI to watch a poor game.

Is it a case of good defence from Ulster though? As in player on his feet contesting the breakdown forcing the ball carrier to hold on?

Genuine question as impossible to tell from radio commentary.

I don't think so, as I've said above the ref did not police off feet, or in at the side and that's where a lot of the pens came from.

Don't get me wrong Ulster were strong at the breakdown and a lot of pens were for not releasing, but other refs would have given some of them the other way for the player not releasing the player or hands in the ruck

The ref let the defender compete for the ball every time, regardless if any indiscretions they had made.

CraigS1874 wrote:Well that was a waste of an evening. Du preez had a good game but apart from that edinburgh didn't really have many positives. Horrible weather and I cannot really remember a game with so few line breaks. Credit to the ulster team who kept it under control and there was a lot of fans who had made the journey from NI to watch a poor game.

I didn't think we played badly at all, and dominated Ulster for large parts of the game. In those conditions it was always going to be fine margins, and Bezzy missed a kick whilst we gave away two cheap and lockable penalties, particularly the truck and trailer driving maul.

I thought Du Preez was excellent, but so was Gilchrist, and Coman looks a decent warrior on the blindside. None of the backs shone, not that sort of game, but Cuthbert was as good as any, and we chased our kicks really well.

Not as positive as you Fes - I didn't think we were very good. I know it was very poor conditions, but we were very limited and didn't have plan B. We did one out passes time and time again, and when we realised we were getting no where (which regularly happened) we just did an up and under and hoped for the best.

I'm not sure what plan B was, but plan A didn't get us anywhere.

Ulster weren't great last night, and in classic Edinburgh style they didn't have to do much to get their points and win the game. They barely got out of 2nd gear and knew that they just had to keep tackling and we'd cough up a penalty, and likewise they just had to hold on to the ball long enough to get a penalty.

I'm maybe being harsh given the weather, but I thought we were poor.

I don't think Ulster found that as easy as you think, and when they tried to go wide, they also got nowhere and spilled the ball. I thought the tactics were right in those conditions, the execution in their 22 wasn't quite there and a massive Ulster pack defended well. I think we needed to consider the drop goal as an option, because we kept having sustained pressure and coming away with nothing. Two of the Ulster kicks, the decisive margin, were penalties they didn't work for, and that's what is so frustrating. I also thought we took our foot off the pedal during the sin bin period, losing that 10 minutes 3 nil. When Henderson came back on at 3-3, you felt Edinburgh really ought to have capitalised better.

Still, I thought we showed good commitment, and defended strongly against a monster pack. You'll know better than me playing rugby to the level you do, but there was little evidence to me that there were many options for a plan B in those conditions, other than the drop goal. Ulster are a superb attacking outfit, top of the league, and they also got nowhere in the monsoon and wind.

The bistake for me was going for goal just after the yellow. It was a difficult kick and after ge missed it we barely saw the ball for the next ten minutes, and even conceded 3 points.

Should have gone for the corner. Even if we didn't score straight away we would have still been in their half.

Gusher has his favourites like Wilson who can do no wrong, can't remember him ever saying anything good about the small parcel.

Agree RDW, although I thought they should have gone for the corner on the first kick, and Bezzy nailed a monster penalty from half way.

An interesting point to note from a Scotland perspective is that Gilchrist called the lineout, which went pretty well given the conditions. I thought he had a positive 80 minutes.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agree RDW, although I thought they should have gone for the corner on the first kick, and Bezzy nailed a monster penalty from half way.

An interesting point to note from a Scotland perspective is that Gilchrist called the lineout, which went pretty well given the conditions. I thought he had a positive 80 minutes.

That can only be a good thing, we definitely need some lineout callers!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Penalty count was 16-4 against Edinburgh - that's incredible.

Such penalty count can only be down to biaised ref, i would accept it if it was 16-9 or something but this is just too much at this level.

Imagine the penalty count had Best and Henry played for Ulster 20-0 ?! What a joke.

Edit: just seen on the Edinburgh forum, the scrum struggled, not surprised at all Nel is a very average scrummager yet even in a wheelchair he would be selected over the doctor.

Three observations

Some of those penalties were at scrum time which, in part, explains the difference

Lacey is not biased just useless - by far the worst of the Irish refs on the panel

Yet again it has been shown Ulster are not good in poor weather - we have very much become a fair weather team.
Not great when you are based in Belfast.
The weather on the 5th April could very easily decide the match

geoff998rugby wrote:
Yet again it has been shown Ulster are not good in poor weather - we have very much become a fair weather team.
Not great when you are based in Belfast.
The weather on the 5th April could very easily decide the match

This is quite concerning but strange in the same way as you have strong ball carriers and a good scrum...

I will be holding my breath the weather stays dry for you guys... must win game...

Lacey normally is the last referee I want to see with the whistle in an Ulster game.

Another observation I had was the apparent drop off in Herrings throwing in poor conditions - he's normally much better than that. I couldn't understand the call to go long with the final lineout either when Ulster just had to run the clock down.

How did Luke Marshall and Stephen Ferris get on?

Ferris went off at half time without standing out, Marshall did ok

It's a question of just getting some fitness for Ferris;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26698043

Bowe played the full 80 minutes, Marshall played 80 minutes, Tuohy played I think about 20 to 30 minutes? We're getting guys back at the right time. I think Ferris will be an impact sub against Saracens.

Players are saying that is the worst pitch they have ever played on

Yes the worms killed it, but it's gone now.

I was on the pitch after the game and surprisingly thought it was pretty good and firm considering the conditions. Better than anything I've played on!  However the wind and rain were horrendous resulting in a lot of kicking and terrible viewing. Not a night to be a winger or fullback as they were mainly trying to keep warm. Didn't notice Bowe at all first half. Gilroy was busier and did ok. None of the backs were spectacular. Marshall had a couple of decent carries and was strong in defence.

I thought Henderson was the pick of the forwards really throwing himself into contact and is really perfecting the choke tackle which he did on numerous occasions. His strength is frightening. His tackle looked more wreckless than dangerous but it did look a bit like some sort of a judo throw which sounds worse than it was. Didn't have the best view of it but my initial thought was that it wasn't that bad but could have been if he had lifted him a little higher. Roger Wilson grafted hard and Diack put in a good shift as usual when he came on. Ferris was ok but not spectatular. Tackling but didn't really notice any carries as Edinburgh had a lot of the ball first half.

The defence was solid but I would have liked the line speed to be quicker in such conditions to force handling errors as we struggled to get the ball back from Edinburgh in the first half. Whatever way Heaney was taking his box kicks the midfield didn't seem to be used to them as they overan him on at least 3 occasion before he had kicked the ball. All in all it was a pretty poor performance from Ulster despite the wind and conditions. From the team we had out I would expect a much better performance and be able to cope with the conditions better. If it's similar conditions against a big team like Saracens then we will need to be a hell of a better than Friday