Official RBS Player of the Championship

First topic message reminder :

So the official shortlist has been released and its a public vote, which will close on Wednesday night. Presumably with the winner being announced later in the week. The question is, will BODs adoring public vote him player of the tournament despite not even being the best Irish player this year out of those on the list? I will add a poll to this with the nominees so 606v2 can vote their player of the Six Nations.

http://www.rbs6nations.com/RBSPlayerOfTheChampionship

I voted for Trimble here, and a few times on the other site. Completely biased   

Well it isn't as if Brown is not going to win it, is it? He has been outstanding during the 6N . A great player in a very good, and improving, side.

I'm with Notch though. It would be hilarious if BOD won it. Cue the comedy, and the rage!

BlueMuff wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:yes he has been the best center in the NH for years and yes he will go down as a legend of the game, but FFS why can't people see that although he was decent this 6N he was far from the best in his position, it look's as though we are going to see another performance from the Irish on here as we did after the Lions tour if we are not careful.

Can we just be clear that Guns is not representative of all Irish on here. Your comments above are pretty much on the money - the Italian game was by far his best match, decent against England in defence and quiet against France. Was he player of the tournament. No.

Once again no one is claiming he should be player of the tournament but that he deserves his nomination and he is there on merit because he had a great tournament and not for charitable reasons.

So Muff you agree that O'Driscoll was "far from the best in his position"?

Danny Care.  

Brown did the scarpering - Care created the mood that made Brown and the rest of the English players giddy.  Care was the conductor of England's confident momentum.

Next up I can't separate Sexton, POM and Trimble as influences on what Ireland got up to.  I'll say Sexton, again as the main orchestrator

So Care or Sexton for me.  Still deciding which

How the shortlist has been created:

http://www.rbs6nations.com/RBSPlayerOfTheChampionship

Throughout the 2014 RBS 6 Nations each player has been awarded (or deducted) points based on statistical performance across different action categories that cover all aspects of the game. To ensure fairness, the RBS 6 Nations analysts have weighted the importance of different actions depending on different positions. These categories have been collated to give each player an overall performance score. The top scoring players are listed below in alphabetical order.

Think we can put to bed the myth that O'Driscoll's nomination was some sort of retirement charity gift. Depending on who wins certain claims can be made as it is a fan vote but the nominations for the most part are fair enough IMO.

Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

Why do you insist on being such a sore loser? Statistically and empirically he was better than Burrell or anyone else in the centre. Nominations are a fair reflection of the tournament. Like you said earlier some other guys are unlucky to miss out but you cant begrudge those that were selected really.

For England id argue Courtney Lawes, Dylan Hartley and Farell added most. Brown gets plaudits because to the casual fan it's easy to identify the glory boy. He's being given a lot of space by a decent tactical game and a solid platform.

Why am I a sore loser? I still don't get this? Statisically he's better? For a start then where are the stats and how, why and where are some more important? I get why he's there I just can't agree that a large part of that is that this was his final outing on the international stage. If you're honest you know that's part of it?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why am I a sore loser? I still don't get this? Statisically he's better? For a start then where are the stats and how, why and where are some more important? I get why he's there I just can't agree that a large part of that is that this was his final outing on the international stage. If you're honest you know that's part of it?

That might be the reason if he won the award outright but he was the best centre in the tournament and I dont think there can be much debate about that because of the range of skills he showed, his consistency and influence on every game he played. Possibly not by much as Burrell stepped up to international level very nicely but to suggest its a charity vote is bizarre.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

He doesn't need any more of them. He already has three

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why am I a sore loser? I still don't get this? Statisically he's better? For a start then where are the stats and how, why and where are some more important? I get why he's there I just can't agree that a large part of that is that this was his final outing on the international stage. If you're honest you know that's part of it?

That might be the reason if he won the award outright but he was the best centre in the tournament and I dont think there can be much debate about that because of the range of skills he showed, his consistency and influence on every game he played. Possibly not by much as Burrell stepped up to international level very nicely but to suggest its a charity vote is bizarre.

Burrell and BOD quite close I'd accept that, I'd have them the other way around but there we go. neither should be on that shortlist, the fact BOD is is down to his retirement. i fully believe that and I find it bizarre that you can't accept that this will be part of the reason.

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

He doesn't need any more of them.  He already has three

I find it all a bit Ryan Giggs myself. He was nominated and won players of the year a few years back for being a great player but not excelling in that year.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

It's a pitty that Warren Gatland didn't think like that.  

  

So who else has voted for BOD other than Guns?

606v2 has spoken. Brown is the man!

Think I voted for Sexton??

No 7&1/2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

He doesn't need any more of them.  He already has three

I find it all a bit Ryan Giggs myself. He was nominated and won players of the year a few years back for being a great player but not excelling in that year.

Not excelling in what year?  

2009, his last one, when he might have been starting to get his tokenism awards, he was top scorer (if such be the criteria used for great players - Not mine! ) in both 6N and HEC, being part of teams that won both.  He virtually owned European rugby that year on straight up ability, and he was already considered past-it the season before by many of his plentiful critics.  5 years later he's back on the list as an old retiring man.

Actually doing a bit of digging and certainly in previous years anyone receiving a MOTM has automatically been put forward for players of the tournament so fair enough if this is the case and I'd withdraw all comments above about why BOD is included.

Do French and Italians vote?

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Weighted in importance ie, last chance for BOD, stick him in there!

He doesn't need any more of them.  He already has three

I find it all a bit Ryan Giggs myself. He was nominated and won players of the year a few years back for being a great player but not excelling in that year.

Not excelling in what year?  

2009, his last one, when he might have been starting to get his tokenism awards, he was top scorer (if such be the criteria used for great players - Not mine! ) in both 6N and HEC, being part of teams that won both.  He virtually owned European rugby that year on straight up ability, and he was already considered past-it the season before by many of his plentiful critics.  5 years later he's back on the list as an old retiring man.

I meant Giggs in the year he won it. BOD has been the standout centre in NH rugby for 15 years and in the top 3 worldwide. That's a very separate issue though to man of this tournament.

Who voted for Toby and Rob?

Really?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Actually doing a bit of digging and certainly in previous years anyone receiving a MOTM has automatically been put forward for players of the tournament so fair enough if this is the case and I'd withdraw all comments above about why BOD is included.

And that can't be the reason either as Fofana picked up 1 along with a few others. It appears to be an ever changing reason.

If Denton, Warbuton and a few others get to be on a list 'on merit' then certainly BOD deserves to be on it on merit.

SecretFly wrote:If Denton, Warbuton and a few others get to be on a list 'on merit' then certainly BOD deserves to be on it on merit.  

He was probably better than Heaslip and Healy too IMO.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Actually doing a bit of digging and certainly in previous years anyone receiving a MOTM has automatically been put forward for players of the tournament so fair enough if this is the case and I'd withdraw all comments above about why BOD is included.

And that can't be the reason either as Fofana picked up 1 along with a few others. It appears to be an ever changing reason.

Im guessing you had to at least feature in all 5 games which is why Fofana and POM werent considered but Warburton who came on as a sub in the Ireland game was. Did any of the nominated players not feature in all games? I think they all played 5?

I think this is probably fair enough.

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Actually doing a bit of digging and certainly in previous years anyone receiving a MOTM has automatically been put forward for players of the tournament so fair enough if this is the case and I'd withdraw all comments above about why BOD is included.

And that can't be the reason either as Fofana picked up 1 along with a few others. It appears to be an ever changing reason.

Im guessing you had to at least feature in all 5 games which is why Fofana and POM werent considered but Warburton who came on as a sub in the Ireland game was. Did any of the nominated players not feature in all games? I think they all played 5?

I think this is probably fair enough.

Possibly, it would be nice to know the full stats etc though.

Denton came on as a sub in one game too.

cant give much more than a flying feck of who gets this prize although it would be fun if they give it to say Heaslip just to watch the reaction on these boards    
 
and yes SF, anyone can vote even people from Papua New Guinea as long as they get access to de interweb.

GunsGerms wrote:Denton came on as a sub in one game too.

And was subbed off in the England game at about 50 minutes, despite being Scotland's best (perhaps only) performer in that game. We may have criticised Lancaster for some of his substitutions, but even replacing Burrell with Manu on Saturday wasn't in the same universe of stupidity as that one from Johnson.

dummy_half wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Denton came on as a sub in one game too.

And was subbed off in the England game at about 50 minutes, despite being Scotland's best (perhaps only) performer in that game. We may have criticised Lancaster for some of his substitutions, but even replacing Burrell with Manu on Saturday wasn't in the same universe of stupidity as that one from Johnson.

Denton is a really good player. In all fairness Scotland actually do have some first class players. Hogg IMO is absolutely incredible. I reckon with a good coach Scotland will be more than capable of a few really big wins.

If Schmidt coached Scotland and Johnson coached Ireland, Scotland would have won that game for example.

GunsGerms wrote:Think I voted for Sexton??

Aye, he played pretty well. Probably was the 2nd best performing flyhalf after Farrell.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Think I voted for Sexton??

Aye, he played pretty well. Probably was the 2nd best performing flyhalf after Farrell.

Cyril, I do enjoy your sense of humour. If I could take Farrell's accuracy with the kicks at goal and give it to Sexton we would have a very very special player. Given his surname is Farrell and his mums name Colleen O'Loughlin I'm sure its the Irish in him that makes him a good player anyway.

His parents were only 16 when they had him. Very young!!

whocares wrote:cant give much more than a flying feck of who gets this prize although it would be fun if they give it to say Heaslip just to watch the reaction on these boards    
 
and yes SF, anyone can vote even people from Papua New Guinea as long as they get access to de interweb.

Exactly. We should be sending Irish Rugby missionaries to Papua New Guinea to spread the glory of BOD. I'll go myself.

PNG Guy; So all these great tries by BOD you're showing me were from this years Championship, right?
Notch; Ehhhhh.... sure. Remember to get your friends and family to vote!

Mike Brown. Hands down. Sexton needs to sort his head out re kicking. A few seasons ago he seemed more reliable

This is announced tomorrow isnt it?

Better get on a put a few more votes in for Brown.....

Voting now closed -

Ah! A new dawn for hysterical over-reaction. Will they ever learn do you think?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ah! A new dawn for hysterical over-reaction. Will they ever learn do you think?

Indeed. Remember this moment, because the world will never be the same again.

It's the first time in recorded history that several different statistical models have been infected with the same hysteria that has swept fans and pundits alike. We may be heralding the dawn of artificial intelligence - if computers have achieved hysteria they could well become self-aware once they calm down. And then get all embarrassed about it. Which bodes well for the prospect of them not going all Skynet on our collective derrieres.

Oh. Sad thought.

Perhaps it's not hysteria after all. Perhaps it's just that some bloke who ran the most yards, broke the most tackles, and scored the most tries has been spotted by most people as a worthy winner of the Player of the Tournament award.

England has the most fans so Brown will win. No surprises there.

I really hope brown wins it, he has been the most deserving player this six nations, great in attack and has been great to watch even for the neutral.

  top performer for sure, I never thought he had it in him tbh.

I voted 10 times for him    

Notch wrote:Yeah it's strange that O'Mahony didn't make the cut. My only thought is because it's based on statistical analysis and he didn't make as many yards and carries as some other backrows.

He didn't play against Italy and was poor against England, I imagine that's why he's not there.

O'Mahony made the cut on the official stats organisation for the 6N tournament.

Hmmmm, and one game missing too, which makes it even more noteworthy. Someone spotted the elusive unseen stuff that he does.

Or the numerous missed tackles

Mike brown won with 34% of the votes. BOD comes next with 28%

Scratch wrote:England has the most fans so Brown will win. No surprises there.

Ah I was wondering how he might possibly have won. Can't be any other reason   

Wowzers, that's a lot of sentimentality voting!!

Ireland's 3rd or 4th best player comes second with 28%!!

TopHat24/7 wrote:Wowzers, that's a lot of sentimentality voting!!

Ireland's 3rd or 4th best player comes second with 28%!!

It's all sentiment................ ain't that what voting for your favouriteist player has always been?

The French love him.... it ain't just the English and Irish who vote. Is it????

Don't really care who, it's about why.

Like I said, it's not about him being in the list of nominees, and if he'd been Ireland's best player then ok, but there were 2 or 3 players in his own team that performed better overall in the Championships therefore sentimentality must be swaying the votes away from logic.

there are 4 players with over 2 votes on our poll and those are the only 4 that deserve being short listed and were the best 4 players.

Our vote was much better.

but same outcome for the winner so no probs.

Well done Brown !

TopHat24/7 wrote:Don't really care who, it's about why.

Like I said, it's not about him being in the list of nominees, and if he'd been Ireland's best player then ok, but there were 2 or 3 players in his own team that performed better overall in the Championships therefore sentimentality must be swaying the votes away from logic.

.....or swaying your logic away from seeing that he was in the team for much more than sentiment. Watch him through the series of games...not just the Italy game with the bits that casual observers of rugby look for when classing what 'performance' does.

The snarl of bitterness stretches long after him through his history. But he's used to it by now.
Why not simply enjoy that Brown got top?