A bit of a moan and let's chat REAL rugby

I like 606 for lots of reasons the main one being fellow posters seem to have great personalities and a real community vibe,
But I hate it for it's pretty shallow nature eg.. Hundreds of comments on who will win the game and all the theory's why but a very little chat after a game on where a players contribution ,what made the difference ,what can be improved etc..
Usual baiting threads or fantasy team threads all pretty boring,fun at times yes but 90% boring.

The only few who want to chat about the real rugby seem to be Irish.

So let's begin,
I feel Wales biggest problem is the pack, yes line out is crap etc.. But for me the glaring problem is lack of ball carriers around the ruck, far to often I watch an out of breath Forward run to a ruck with an already protected ball with little threat of turn over to just lean on the player forming the ruck, NZ and Aus even England now show that the player must pick up that ball and charge around that ruck looking for an off load before the defense is set.

So where else do you feel and how can wales or your country or club improve?

Sounds like you've never read a Scottish thread ever.

Sounds like you're perpetuating just the sort of nature you're protesting about.

Finishing for England.

Manu comes on for a few miutes and shows the rest how its done.. You need that vision, pace and strength at the money end. Otherwise we need higher quality last balls..

We are getting close but our finishing stats are worrying. But there is a positive we are having loads of chances.

Yeah good point Mysti, finishers have it in their blood alright. Mike Browns got the right drive and he should be used nearer the line more, his runs always coming from the back and usually with a cheer, but also 30 yards short of the line where it inevitably fizzles out on D.

How can Wales improve?

First of all get rid of ( retire from the game) Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones. (Both are too old ) and the new scrumaging laws are too much for them to get hold of.

Second Get rid of Sam Warburton ( too injurie prone of late.)

Mike Phillips? Too be honest i think he will be playing for Wales when he is 90 years old.
Wales do not seem to have any one to take his place.( his physicality) around the park.


As for England they need to learn to close out close games (the France game ) for instance.

Manu must be in the starting line-up. Corbs must get fit. Yarde must start. The rest will look after itself.

For Wales I thought Warburton was excellent. Probably his English heritage. I think he's better than Robshaw.   The Welsh front 5 is not world class. Herein lies the problem for Wales.

Italy - I thought they played really well for the first 40 of each match except England. They have about half of a half decent backline and a troublesome pack. What they really lack is the ability and experience to hold their shape for 80 minutes. What they probably need is a top notch defensive coach. Learn to absorb the pressure and they have the backline talent to score from turnovers.

Scotland - A head coach. God knows, they have the talent and the pride, even if they lack strength in depth and there was precious little pride on show this 6N. We have not seen the real Scotland this year. Cotter needs to start the same way Lancaster did: with the culture. Then, he needs to work on the SRU to sort out the player pipeline. Given enough talent and the right team ethos, plus a decent selector and tactical coach (which Cotter seems to be, at least in the relatively unconstrained environment of the Top 14), cussedness will cover a lot of flaws.

Wales - Like Plan A, it's simple: when the key players are fully fit and firing on all cylinders, the gameplan is hard to stop. But there are several things that work against it. Wales don't have brilliant strength in depth, and I think Gatland's training programme brings them to such a high state of tune that they're like Formula 1 engines - they break too often. I also think that the game has moved on around them. I am not sure that other teams have adapted to Wales' game - it seems more likely that they've looked at the All Blacks, but the effect is the same: more and more players are getting the kind of engine that allows them to keep making plays phase after phase without running out of puff or getting injured.

Wales have succeeded by being bigger, more powerful, more committed, but the SH big 3 - and now England and Ireland - are now more efficient, and know that if they are quick enough off the mark in defence they can stop the big lads before they get up to speed. Two dislocated shoulders in two games speaks volumes about commitment, but also about (gaps in) technique. Finally, the changed engagement has meant that the Welsh scrum is no longer a reliable penalty generator in the eyes of most refs - if anything, the pendulum has swung the other way. Wales have used the scrum as a weapon for years, but he who lives by the sword dies by the sword.

Is Gatland going to be able to find a way forward? Hard to say. He's a stubborn so-and-so, but he's also canny enough to have something in reserve for next year. The big worry is personnel. I think he needs some new players, both to cover for injuries / aging and to add a new dimension. He needs props who suit the new engagement and he has left it quite late. If I were a Welsh fan, I would also like to see an unpredictable game changer somewhere in the squad - a Hook, or a Shane Williams. As an England fan, I hope he doesn't look for one.

France - They have the talent. They do not have the consistency. They are French. I think they need a new coach. PSA seems to be trying to turn them into something they are not and (I think) can never be - a team that plays the percentages. They need someone who accepts that they will always be erratic and simply creates an environment in which they can thrive (perhaps with some gentle cajoling towards international - rather than Top 14 - fitness patterns). I doubt they will get a new coach. I imagine they will go into RWC 2015 in disarray, lose to Romania, scrape into a QF in which they beat New Zealand and fall heroically at the last hurdle. Adopts best Gerard Butler tone, with French accent: WE. ARE. FRENCH.

England - Experience, a bit of luck with injuries and one of Kvesic, Wallace or Haskell to step up. You know that bit in The Dark Knight where Christian Bale does his "I Believe in Harvey Dent" speech? Well, I Believe in Stuart Lancaster (caveat: house invasion by disfigured psychopath not required). I have believed since his appointement that he's been building to something special (heck, I spent more money than I could strictly afford on signed shirts from his first 6N and the South Africa tour because I thought they were the start of something special). There have been moments (I'm looking at you, Paris) where the guy has clearly been learning on the job, but it's also been clear that he has a plan and he's building towards something. It now looks to be 95% there. England lack a little composure and (Mike Brown, Luther Burrell [1] excepted) an eye for the gap in the red zone. They need the core group of players, and especially the wingers, to stay fit and in form for the next 18 months, and they will be real contenders.

Ireland - Right now, they are probably the most complete NH team. I think they need three things: i) their older players, particularly Ross and POC, to hold together; ii) 2% more belief, especially when they face SH teams. They had NZ on the ropes and let them escape. Got to fix that. iii) Whatever tactics Schmidt devises for the opponents they will face. Except England. Adopts best Obi Wan Kenobi voice: "You don't need Schmidt's tactics. He's the fullback to kick to. He can go on his way."

[1] Manu "We don't need gaps where we're going" Tuilagi doesn't have the eye for a gap, but it scarcely matters.

majesticimperialman wrote:How can Wales improve?

First of all get rid of ( retire from the game) Gethin Jenkins and Adam Jones. (Both are too old ) and the new scrumaging laws are too much for them to get hold of.

Second Get rid of Sam Warburton ( too injurie prone of late.)

Mike Phillips? Too be honest i think he will be playing for Wales when he is 90 years old.
Wales do not seem to have any one to take his place.( his physicality) around the park.


As for England they need to learn to close out close games (the France game ) for instance.

Warburton actually played quite well, and I think he played every game for once (but thats off the back of hardly playing for the Blues) and got unlucky in the last game.

I think this tournament has shown that Priestland is not up to it anymore, he simply cannot handle the pressure as shown vs England the longer the game went on the worse he got, if he is selected for the SA tour it would be disgraceful. Biggar is clearly the man for the job even if he was flattered by a poor Scottish side.

I think Liam Williams will be the future 15, he just offers more in attack than Halfpenny, Halfpenny should replace Cuthbert on the wing who is having a poor season.

Good post pourfour

Scotland are in dissaray.
We all hope Cotter will make a real difference and lets hope he makes sure the SRU give him free reign. Scotland have more to offer than they have shown. Cotter needs to mould a team out of the players we have.

Scotland also has serious structural issues but thats a whole other debate. We need to have more of the younger players playing regular rugby. If we are going to keep only 2 or 3 top teams then we need a higher quality 2nd tier. Too many promising young players end up sitting on the bench not playing enough regular rugby. The SRU are basically incompetent which doesn't help.

However in the medium term things look good. A whole generation of young players who are the best for a long long time. Select the right team, prepare them properly with the right tactics and instill some team ethos and they would show thier potential.
Longer term the Scottish game needs revamping and reshaping. We need to see how the European mess settles out and then decide on what works for us. A more competitive second tier of Scots teams might be able to have meaningful entry into a second tier European cup. At the moment even the best scottish club teams would be hammered by English championship sides.