Lets get back to real tours....

I put this post up on the BBC forum back in 2009 and would be interested to see if there is still a desire to see something like this adopted by us (the fans). Back the powers in the game wasnt interested, but who knows, maybe we can turn the tide and see the return of good old fashioned tours, with a modern day twist, as below...

What's you thoughts...



In Wales we have 4 Regional Sides and 4 International games in the Autumn. Lets get back to having some real old fashioned tours.

The standings of the Welsh teams in the Pro 12 should be used as a "seed" to decide who plays who mid-week during the AI window. To avoid arguments, the IRB rankings could be used to "seed" the Touring side....

Using last years standings, we could have had the following games as warm ups to the internationals :-

Blues v Argentina at the Arms Park
Dragons v Samoa at Rodney Parade
Ospreys v New Zealand at the Liberty
Scarlets v Australia at Parc Y Scarlets


It would bring back the "old" tradition of touring. Extra needed revenue for the Regions. The Touring party get chance to play all their players. And the public get a real warm up event mid-week before the International game at the Millennium Stadium.

I believe, equivalent fixtures could be done for the other nations, along similar ways....

Can anyone please tell me why this cant be done.

And before we get, its a professional game now... Just cast your minds back to Ospreys v Australia at the Liberty a few years back... A Sell Out, and what a game... also Munster v All Blacks was a massive success

I really think this can work and should be adopted.

Are the touring sides interested?

I think the WRU claim it can't be done for 'player welfare' reasons, they claim that the one extra match will cause issues. Personally I think we should look into it seriously, and start making enquiries about how viable it is. After all the LV= is not generating much buzz or income for the regions, and if anything can be causing negative publicity as the televised matches are always infront of small crowds, which then makes the regional game look bad. If the teams were playing touring sides the stands would be packed, and the revenue raised would be higher. Also it would tempt the half-rearend fans to turn up, for a special occation match, and who knows they may even end up attending more regularly then.

Well it would allow them to play ALL they're touring party instead of the non playing squad members being used for tackling practice by the match day team.

I would say, the players would be up for it.

sirBiggles wrote:Well it would allow them to play ALL they're touring party instead of the non playing squad members being used for tackling practice by the match day team.

I would say, the players would be up for it.

We could allow the touring side to make the TV rights deals, so they could raise more revenue themselves from squeezing in an extra match too.

I agree with your comments SS.

I also believe the WRU would say no on "welfare" grounds, but that would be hogwash, as the players who would play the mid-week games are unlikely to be the players in the Test game, so how it increases players game time and hence a welfare risk I dont know.

I'm sure if I was a young player, breaking into a national squad, just not quite at test standard, I would rather play a mid-week game for my country than tour and then sit in the stands come the Test. And as for the Regions/Clubs, all those players not chosen by the country, would jump at the chance to say they beat a touring side.

Not sure if you are old enought to remember 30 years ago, but knowing you are a Scarlets fan, I'm sure you have been brought up on the folk law behind that day. I remember it well....

No

Who voted No... Not that I'm having a dig, but I would be interested in your thought why it would be a bad idea...

Oh.. scrub that...

C'mon then Hersh, why is it a bad idea ?

Biggles - 40 years ago mate, so well before my time, that said I do 'The Day The Pubs Ran Dry', to the point some random bloke was singing/saying it a karaoki (can't spell for love nor money) night and I had to tell my mates to shut up and listen.

But that is the sort of hting that regional rugby needs to get people behind it. There are far more golden memories from the club days than there are from the regional days. If we could have matches like these, then that would change and a new generation would be sitting in pubs telling people to shut up because they wanna hear 'The Day Samson Smashed The Saffers' being sung.

That is several times I've said 30 years...

2012 - 1972 = 40 ...

Yep, you are right, I'd better hand back my A Level Maths certificate

Actually, I am old enough to remember 1972, its just the fact we are in 2012 I have difficulty with ....

sirBiggles wrote:

That is several times I've said 30 years...

2012 - 1972 = 40 ...

Yep, you are right, I'd better hand back my A Level Maths certificate

Actually, I am old enough to remember 1972, its just the fact we are in 2012 I have difficulty with ....

It's because your old enough to remember 1972 your struggling to remember what year it is now, or trying not to so you can pretend your still young

A real tour would be nice and could easily be accomodated if you got the format right.As an example England went on a short tour to Australia/Nz there were 3 tests plus 3 provincial games.In a modified form that could be a template 2 tests plus 3 club games instead of 4 AI`s/July tests.home or away.

sirBiggles wrote:Oh.. scrub that...

C'mon then Hersh, why is it a bad idea ?

Player burn out plus the touring team wouldn't be that interested.

It's a thing of the past IMO, the game has moved on, so should you.

BTW I don't think it's a bad idea.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

sirBiggles wrote:

That is several times I've said 30 years...

2012 - 1972 = 40 ...

Yep, you are right, I'd better hand back my A Level Maths certificate

Actually, I am old enough to remember 1972, its just the fact we are in 2012 I have difficulty with ....

It's because your old enough to remember 1972 your struggling to remember what year it is now, or trying not to so you can pretend your still young

HERSH wrote:
Player burn out plus the touring team wouldn't be that interested.

It's a thing of the past IMO, the game has moved on, so should you.

Rubbish, as I said above/elsewhere, the players who play would play no more games. The weekend side would be more likely fielded from touring squad players who would most likely not get a test game, so I'm sure the players would be interested.

Just because a thing is from the past does not make it unworkable.

for not thinking it a bad idea...

I think their would be demand for it from a revenue point of view.... but will it benefit the A side players not participating in tests?

When ENG went to SA they played 2nd/3rd tier rugby matches and stuffed both sides... I don't think it did any player any longterm benefits. How many players will they have to bring also? If they had 2 sides they would need say 30 gunning for test spots and then another 20 odd for the non test matches.... thats a big squad to manage and pay for.

For that they would have had to have played a provincal side like WP or the Bulls.... with a good number of regulars to boot.

Same in the UK... if they don't come up against top class sides in their own right, it ain't going to challenge young players just outside the test sides (given if most were British they would walk into the respected 6N sides).

I would love to see mid week games. I think esp with the money in French and English clubs they could persuade teams financially to play them.

I do like having a system in place to rank teams

All Blacks bringing a 35 man squad, Pumas bringing a 39 man squad, Australia only bringing 26 man squad.

I'm sure a 35-40 man squad could field the extra games, after all, only 15 start with 8 bench.

As for the challenge, tell the All Blacks they had no challenge against Munster, or Australia when the Ospreys beat them.

It could be made to work and would be a favourite, I'm sure.

But would the Rabo teams want more meaningless games added to their schedule?

Why is it a problem?in traditional tours the Saturday side to play club sides was a mix and match of players available.In those days the provinces did`nt hide test players against Lions sides as was shamefully done in 2009.They played and rejoiced if the turned over a touring side 36 at most would be required and more fringe players give a chance.Dump the Albatross [RWC} and you could have real tours every 4 years and sensible domestic Internationals from developing sides as well.Better for all concerned than see them thrashed in a RWC every 4 years by weakened T1 sides.

I think I would rather see Regions/Clubs play teams like Georgia, Spain, Portugal etc in a midweek fixture. I would definitely like to see England's June BaaBaa's fixture replaced with a game against a developing side.

Not many clubs can boast defeating a top 5 international side in the recent past. The Ospreys did it twice!

Australia 2006
England 2008

HERSH wrote:But would the Rabo teams want more meaningless games added to their schedule?

The Rabo would be far more competitive if we stole a few Aviva team's. Form clubs like London Welsh should definitely consider transferring to the Rabo.

Good call this Biggles... pity the WRU (and other Unions) arent as creatively thinking...

It would generate aditional revenue needed by the game, and be a brilliant springboard for the weekend "main" events.

from me...

Nah, no tours for me. We're spoilt rotten these days with the amount of rugby on offer. Seems like only yesterday we were discussing the 4N, and before that the June tests. Tours were all the rage pre-RWC, Super Rugby, 3N, HC, etc, and when the titanic was the mode of transport. And the stakes are so high these days that the 'dirt trackers' actually get games on the mainstage. How about tier 2 do tours (PIs)?

Dont understand that ebop, the tour happen. The AIs are tours. My call was to get mid week games with the clubs as well.

So are you saying the AIs should stop... Suppose that's one way of maintaining SH dominance in the IRB rankings. Dont play the NH sides then they cant take the points off you...

I'd love to see the return of 'real' tours, I was in Stradey in 1992 when LLanelli beat Australia, fantastic atmosphere in a packed stadium. It would generate revenue, give the non-first choice tourers a game to show what they can do and raise the profile of the home team as well as generate greater interest for the international match. With a squad of about 35 I can't see player burnout being an issue.

Yeah, sorry sirBiggles, I meant the 'real' tours of one country that last for a month with mid week games. They were great in their day, something exotic to look forward to, but surely not possible these days due to how squads are managed and also the level that pro club rugby is played at (almost test like). Mid weekers would need to back up for tests and they'd be knackered. Would reduce impact from the bench and that'd give home countries an advantage (my logic is a bit extreme perhaps).