Ulster vs Saracens - HC quarter final - Saturday, 5th April 6:30pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster vs Saracens.

Saturday 5th April at 6:30pm

First game at a newly renovated Ravenhill I believe with a new capacity of 18,000.

Ulster are currently 3rd in the Pro12 and won all their pool stages in the HC, including impressive away wins vs Leicester and Montpellier.

They have a few Irish players who were involved in the title winning 6 nations like Best and Trimble. Trimble in particular had a very good tournament.

Close to full strength in terms of their squad.

According to Ulster fans their current form hasn't been great but I take that firmly with a pinch of salt. Their latest result - a loss to Cardiff could shake any sense of complacency.


Saracens are currently the league leaders in the AP with a healthy 7 point gap off 2nd placed Saints. Just 2 losses in the AP in 18 matches which contrasts with their two losses in the pool stages of the HC. Saracens are currently the top try scorers in the AP and were top try scorers in the HC pool stages. Form wise Saracens have been comfortable without really putting in a notable performance.

Notable clashes

Best vs Brits - the Irish hooker vs the flamboyant South African who plays more like a centre - will be key in getting their teams into good positions.

Muller vs Borthwick - skipper vs skipper - both will be key in inspiring their sides.

Jackson vs Farrell - the 2nd choice Irish 10 vs the current England 10 - both will be expected to boss the game and take any opportunities and points on offer



Ulster team

15. J Payne
14. A Trimble
13. D Cave
12. L Marshall
11.T Bowe
10. P Jackson
9. R Pienaar

1. T Court
2.R Best
3. J Afoa
4.J Muller (C)
5.D Tuohy
6.R Wilson
7.N Williams
8.C Henry

16. R Herring
17.A Warwick
18.R Lutton
19.I Henderson
20.S Ferris
21.R Diack
22.P Marshall
23.C Gilroy






Saracens team



15. Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Duncan Taylor
12. Brad Barritt
11. David Strettle
10. Owen Farrell
9. Richard Wigglesworth

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Schalk Brits
3. James Johnston
4. Steve Borthwick ©
5. Mouritz Botha
6. Billy Vunipola
7. Jacques Burger
8. Ernst Joubert

16. Jamie George
17. Richard Barrington
18. Matt Stevens
19. Eoin Sheriff
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil de Kock
22. Charlie Hodgson
23. Chris Wyles


Thoughts?

"Last week was humiliating and frustrating. I just hope it’s fuel to the fire. At the moment, I’m not too hopeful. If we can play like we did away to Leicester or Montpellier, with the home crowd roaring us on, we’ll do it. I’ve seen no indications it’s on the cards, though."

Exactly how I feel Don.
When I think Ulster are going to up their game to great heights they never tend to do so, when I am a little more pessimistic they tend to surprise me so statistically my pessimism leads to the higher percentage of awsome performances. I feel pessimistic right now which should feed my optimism due to the afore mentioned stats

Don Alfonso the crowd will demand a strong start. I would say there is more pressure on Ulster - being at home, Notch's point about heads rolling if Ulster lose etc. To be honest I think Ulster will be fired up for this which should make for a good game.

The HC is a step up from the Pro12 but also the AP too. My perception of AP being more intense than the Pro12 has changed because of the amount of resting of players vs my team.


thebandwagonsociety I think it should be an interesting match and compelling rugby but not free flowing high scoring. Both teams do have potential try scoring threats but it could be cagey and hinge on individual errors or brilliance to break down their defences.

Pretty much like the other quarter finals.

Yeah - in fairness that was just me having a sidewards moan about something that Ulster tend to do when playing teams they're (overly) confident against.

There's not a chance in hell Ulster will take their foot off the gas against a team the calibre of Sarries in a game this important.

The one thing we won't be is over confident.

Last week hurt, last year hurt, they will be desperate to do well in the first game where the new stadium is full.

All of those are positives - the negative is the form of the last 5 games

Hopefully the former is more significant that the latter

Good news is in these kind of games, like in derbies, form goes out of the window.

Team selection is crucial for Ulster in the back row/2nd row. Haven't thought much about this but if the weather is wet i would be tempted to start Williams to bring some go forward momentum from the off.

I can't imagine what Ravers will be like packed to the gills with 18,000 roaring fans. I've been unable to make it up this season at all so I still can only relate to the old Ravers which was a daunting cauldron atmosphere for any team to visit. You really do come face to face with the Ulster faithful quite literally.
What's it going to be like for any team that visits now? Saracens will be the first to find out. I hope it's effect is proportional to the rise in fan numbers.

I think Ulster need to be careful about how they approach the first half especially.

Saracens love to defend so although it's not crowd pleasing I would be hoping Ulster come out and boot the ball to them - Get Bowe and Trimble putting pressure on their back 3 then try to dominate territory rather than possession.

My fear is that we will try and keep the ball in hand like we did last year, Saracens will smash the likes of Pienaar, Jackson, Williams, Cave etc. behind the gain line and force penalties and turnovers which Farrell will nail.

I think our kicking game (when it's working) is much improved on last year Rodders. Our kick/chase game is a different beast and Paddy's tactical kicks (once again when he's working correctly) are a level above the previous season.
We have to front up against Sarries' physicality in the pack which I know we can but we have to outthink them out with our tactics and backline play. Ever kick we send there way must be contested, linespeed needs to double compared to recent games and the crowd nust be baying for victory from the off.
I know I'm stating the obvious but it's been less than obvious for us in recent games.

Ferris is on the bench

Rodders not a bad plan if you execute it properly. I think our back three can be put under pressure. It's about how effectively you do it.

England vs Wales - was a good example by Rhys Priestland of how not to put pressure on the opposition back three.

Keeping the ball in hand is fine if you are on top at the breakdown and getting over the gainline. I don't expect Saracens to have as much success at the lineout and breakdown as last year unfortunately.

The lineout is one reason Diack should start - 3 genuine receivers is a huge plus.

With Ferris on the bench then Williams or Diack start

Rodders you are pretty much looking for the Montpellier away tactics. I would concur if that's what you're getting at. If ferris is benching I hope it's a 6-2 split. Unless big Nick has gone walkies again

Yeah something along those lines Stand. I suppose he point is Saracens, to some degree, are a more dangerous side without the ball than with it - therefore the way to combat that is not to run at them but give them the ball in their own territory and make them play out.

Not a Million miles away from how Ireland took on Wales.

As Beshocked said this is risky and comes down the execution.

But Pienaar, Jackson and Payne have a good kicking game and Trimbs and Bowe are strong chasers so this would be my plan - because for sure Burger et al. will tackle and knock us backwards until the cows come home if we try and use Williams, Hendo etc to run over them.

Come on Sarries.

Thank you for your contribution   

I'm sure there's a full sentence in you somewhere chunky sandwhich.

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm sure there's a full sentence in you somewhere chunky sandwhich.

Doesn't need to be on this forum.

Me bad. Irish good.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm sure there's a full sentence in you somewhere chunky sandwhich.

Doesn't need to be on this forum.

Me baell-end. Irish good.

Fixed that for you, Chunky - no charge on this occasion, but let's not have a repeat

Nice one Asbo
Chunky seems to have a chip on his shoulder about us Irish folk. What was it he called us again? Sceeting Chumbags?

geoff998rugby wrote:Ferris is on the bench

Really? That's great if so. Really like Ferris, one of the best players I have seen. Massive boost for Ulster, good luck to you boys.

SUFTUM

v

SUFTS

Hate to say it, but Saracens' is a hell of a lot catchier...   

Really I hate it - grates like hell

I don't think there's a sporting side (in any sport) who haven't used that song at some point.

It's especially popular in football.

The Saracens one is better than the Ulster one though. A bit more humour.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm sure there's a full sentence in you somewhere chunky sandwhich.

Doesn't need to be on this forum.

Me baell-end. Irish good.

Fixed that for you, Chunky - no charge on this occasion, but let's not have a repeat

  

Imagine all those Fez supporters - 1F will be truly chuffed.

SARACENS FLANKER KELLY BROWN has joked that Irish rugby supporters are often fired up and boisterous ‘because they’re normally drunk’

The Scotland captain made the remark on Saracens’ weekly video insight into life at the Premiership club. Really clever comment Kelly.

I think the clue is in the bit where he 'joked'.

Cyril wrote:I think the clue is in the bit where he 'joked'.

You are a plank Cyril...........


....just joking.

No offence taken.

Kelly Brown may have been joking but hey, he's fairly accurate

They should do an experiment. Ban all alcohol from Ireland for the weekend and see if there's any difference.

In the interests of science, surely no one would mind.

They can do the same in England. Outlaw prawn sandwiches and champers for a couple of days. That should quieten us down a bit.

As long as the cucumber sandwiches cut into triangles with the crusts off are available they'll never silence us.

Ban alcohol?
In Ireland?

That's like banning oxygen anywhere else in the world.
Even for science we are not willing, not a drop.

I can only talk from personal experience - but I never drink at Ravers and yet frequently scare those near me and thoroughly embarrass the company I'm in by screaming like mad.

I should hope my Ulster supporting peers do not need the help of alcohol in order to fully express their passion!   

Hope it's a good game tomorrow.   

My experiences with Irish fans at games has been good. Sporting if they lose, not gloating if they win.

clivemcl wrote:I can only talk from personal experience - but I never drink at Ravers and yet frequently scare those near me and thoroughly embarrass the company I'm in by screaming like mad.

I should hope my Ulster supporting peers do not need the help of alcohol in order to fully express their passion!   

+1 Clive.

I usually do drink but on those occasions I dont - designated driver for example it makes absolutely no difference to how loud I am   

Not what I experienced from that Ulster fan sat behind us at WR, 'shocked.

He was drowning in a sea of gloating and alcohol and made himself thoroughly obnoxious.

But I know that Irish fans in general are brilliant and I'm fully aware that that dipstick is an exception to a fine rule.

Sorry to hear that portnoy. Admittedly I haven't spoken to Ulster fans when they've won!

Twice been to matches involving Ulster - both at Twickenham - Ulster-Leinster, HC final when for the day I was supporting Ulster and Saracens-Ulster.

My experience of Irish fans has been good - I've experienced all four of the regions fans so I feel I have had a fair reflection.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Not what I experienced from that Ulster fan sat behind us at WR, 'shocked.

He was drowning in a sea of gloating and alcohol and made himself thoroughly obnoxious.

But I know that Irish fans in general are brilliant and I'm fully aware that that dipstick is an exception to a fine rule.

The seats around me that are not held by STs, are generally part of the allocation given to away teams - so we tend to see a varied bunch. Most of the Ulster fans were grand (though repeatedly standing and singing SUFTUM is grating and blocks the view) though one, who was drinking win (!!!!!!!) was rather obnoxious. His GF seemed really embarrassed. Guy must have been rich though - he was a 5 at best, GF a 9.

I think Rugby fans generally are excellent in all my years the only bad experiences I have had are:
 
Away to London Irish - fans with serious identify issues. Their team (with 2 Irishmen in the team) was a true Irish team whereas Ulster were not (12 Irishmen in the team).
Not pleasant - big chip on shoulders
 
The only other incident was a complete nob head behind us at the the Leinster - Saints final in the HC. Entire first half making blatantly abusive comments about Irishmen and Ireland in general.
Boy did he go quiet in the second half and boy did I milk it big time (without ever going down to his level)
As I said just one idiot - been to Northampton, MK and at Ravenhill and met up with Saint fans and they have been brilliant every time.
 
Overall meeting fans in Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, France, Australia has been a joy and my experience goes back 45+ years

Believe me there are a few true tubes that you will always find at Ravenhill but the vast majority of people you'll experience at Ravers on matchday are A1 folks.
The biggest Ulster twit I experienced was on an away trip to Cardiff. He was an embarrassment to the Ulster shirt and happened to be sitting beside us at the match, stayed at our hotel and far too close on the plane home. There certainly is always one.

Anyway, on a lighter note I just visited the bookies to make my yearly punt on the horseys and laid a tenner on all the Irish sides to win at the weekend. Just to add some spice

any news on the teams?

Lunchtime today for Ulster

I see Francios Piennar will be at the match supporting Saracens. He is in Dublin today/tomorrow.

Bad news looks like I won't be able to watch this live so will have to record and watch tomorrow night and refrain from all forms of telecommunications to avoid the score......

Pete330v2 wrote:Believe me there are a few true tubes that you will always find at Ravenhill but the vast majority of people you'll experience at Ravers on matchday are A1 folks.
The biggest Ulster twit I experienced was on an away trip to Cardiff. He was an embarrassment to the Ulster shirt and happened to be sitting beside us at the match, stayed at our hotel and far too close on the plane home. There certainly is always one.

Anyway, on a lighter note I just visited the bookies to make my yearly punt on the horseys and laid a tenner on all the Irish sides to win at the weekend. Just to add some spice

In a patriotically-perverse way, I have all the Irish teams to lose and Tigers to win at C-F on SG.  

clivemcl wrote:I can only talk from personal experience - but I never drink at Ravers and yet frequently scare those near me and thoroughly embarrass the company I'm in by screaming like mad.

I should hope my Ulster supporting peers do not need the help of alcohol in order to fully express their passion!   

Yeah I don't know, enduring that queue in the Laveries tent, plus the price, can add a few notches to the emotional arousal come kick off.....  

GunsGerms wrote:I see Francios Piennar will be at the match supporting Saracens. He is in Dublin today/tomorrow.

Did you know that Edward Griffiths was CEO of SARFU during the 1995 RWC? He is one who came up with the phrase "one team, one country".

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/man-who-helped-unite-south-africa-through-rugby-is-now-trying-to-work-his-magic-with-saracens.19135176

Him and Francois Pienaar wrote a book together in 1999.

Probably partly Pienaar's influence that saw Edward Griffiths made Saracens CEO.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Believe me there are a few true tubes that you will always find at Ravenhill but the vast majority of people you'll experience at Ravers on matchday are A1 folks.
The biggest Ulster twit I experienced was on an away trip to Cardiff. He was an embarrassment to the Ulster shirt and happened to be sitting beside us at the match, stayed at our hotel and far too close on the plane home. There certainly is always one.

Anyway, on a lighter note I just visited the bookies to make my yearly punt on the horseys and laid a tenner on all the Irish sides to win at the weekend. Just to add some spice

In a patriotically-perverse way, I have all the Irish teams to lose and Tigers to win at C-F on SG.  

3 away wins? Bold. You must have good odds on that.