Bundee Aki commits to Ireland

First topic message reminder :

Bundee Aki has announced he's signed with Connacht. He will qualify for Ireland by 2018 and he's setting his eyes on making the Irish team if he can (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/9938620/Bundee-Aki-targets-Irish-jersey-as-he-quits-NZ). If that doesn't work out he is also Samoa qualified.

I'm sad to see him go. He's a useful no 12 and I feel he would eventually have gained some AB's caps. However, at 24 with SBW returning next year, and a young family you can see his perspective. Good luck to him.

Here's the question. How do Irish fans see their depth at 12, both in terms of current players and young players coming through?

ME-109 wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Those would be the countries he is actually already qualified for - the country of his birth, heritage, up-bringing.
The counties whose citizens paid for his education via taxes and provided for his well being. The countries he is abandoning in hope of locked in qualification for a different country only interested in his rugby potential.

The countries of his origin and heritage and upbringing should see this treasonous act as a rejection of nationality - which it literally is - and strip him of passport and residency rights. He should not be allowed back intonthe country. Either one.

So you admit cherry picking by NZ from the islanders..

Don't make yourself out to be more of a fool with such uneducated statements.

The Irish should be ashamed that their national rugby team has been reduced to this sad desperate act that leaves them a laughing stock.

Pot/Kettle..

out of curiosity aren't you a banker in London (I might have spelt that incorrectly)

now GE sing after me...
I'm a little teapot short and stout here's my handle here's my spout...

Revealing your lack of education in public now. Shameful.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:Those would be the countries he is actually already qualified for - the country of his birth, heritage, up-bringing.
The counties whose citizens paid for his education via taxes and provided for his well being. The countries he is abandoning in hope of locked in qualification for a different country only interested in his rugby potential.

The countries of his origin and heritage and upbringing should see this treasonous act as a rejection of nationality - which it literally is - and strip him of passport and residency rights. He should not be allowed back intonthe country. Either one.

   Oh come on this is happening everywhere and in most sports. Even here in Ireland our best cricket players are cherry picked by England.

Has the IRFU even come out and said this guy will play for Ireland? Connacht currently provide 1 player to the national team as it is very hard to get on the Irish team by playing with Connacht.

I think that even FIFA's solution would be better Than the current IRB regs. The key points are you can play for a country if:
A) born there
B) parents born there
C) grandparents born there
D) lived there continuously for 5 years from the age of 18.

E) for home nations only, you can qualify if you went to school in a nation for 5 years continously under the age of 18.

So most players could've qualify on residency until 23 at the earliest. The rules cames in as a response to stacking of national sides with brazilians.

ME-109 wrote:Pot/Kettle..

out of curiosity aren't you a banker in London (I might have spelt that incorrectly)

now GE sing after me...
I'm a little teapot short and stout here's my handle here's my spout...

I thought we used to have a policy on here whereby, we challenged the post not the poster? has that been relaxed?

aucklandlaurie wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Pot/Kettle..

out of curiosity aren't you a banker in London (I might have spelt that incorrectly)

now GE sing after me...
I'm a little teapot short and stout here's my handle here's my spout...

 I thought we used to have a policy on here whereby, we challenged the post not the poster? has that been relaxed?

Yep aucklandlauire, there are two rules - the mods will allow pretty
Much anything against me as they don't like my opinions, but will quickly ban me for almost nothing even if it is factual an backed by evidence.

Ah if only that were true. Long live the transparent meritocracy.

I'll wait for the other foot to drop in the mean time.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ah if only that were true. Long live the transparent meritocracy.

I'll wait for the other foot to drop in the mean time.

Lol he is completely right about pot calling the kettle black though, you're calling him uneducated yet whining about his response.

Totally different things.

What's going in Ireland is appalling and against the spirit of sports. It's also an admission that Ireland is unable to produce talent.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

The Irish should be ashamed that their national rugby team has been reduced to this sad desperate act that leaves them a laughing stock.

Surely the kiwis should feel more ashamed about Aki's comments than Ireland should, since we are going down the completely ridiculous route of blaming a nation for the comments on one player? Ireland didn't make him say anything. In fact if anything he is displaying typical kiwi arrogance and ignorance to think he is just going to waltz into the team in 3 years. He should maybe first consider how talented his competition is first, because he is going to find it very very hard to replace them and likely he will be going back to NZ when he isn't even considered.

He is being signed to play for Connacht, who are a fairly weak team, but Aki seems to think he will just walk onto the irish team in 3 years. So tell me, how is that the fault of Ireland in any way?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Totally different things.

What's going in Ireland is appalling and against the spirit of sports. It's also an admission that Ireland is unable to produce talent.

No it isn't, you can't whinge about attacking the post and not the poster, yet do exactly the same thing yourself.

The mods won't see it differently either, so stop your whining and grow up.   

"Typical kiwi" what? Sorry?

Yeah, blame a young naive guy chasing money -
Or blame the vast rich institution offering up national residency for money...

It's a scandal and the Irish are guilty as sin here.

No need to be sorry, its just typical that another Kiwi rugby player knows little about Irish rugby or culture and therefore Aki seems to think he will be walking onto the team when he gets here.  Most recent example would be Luke Romano and his "which one is that?" when asked about Paul O'Connell (which is why it was great to see him put on his ass by POC in the game).  Trust me I could find you a lot more examples to support it as well.

Connacht are a weak team and to build strength and start winning trophies, they are going to need more exported players.  It is unfortunate, but it needs to be done because they are not progressing at this point.  However, the players being brought in are not there to play for the national team.  They are there to help strengthen the provincial sides.

Well nobody else forced him to say what he said or to sign a contract, so yeah I think I will blame him for it.  He is being given the chance to play for Connacht for 3 years and he seems to think this is his chance to make himself known on the international stage for Ireland.  Well, he won't be good enough here either.  Also he is 24, not 17.  Lets not patronise the guy and call him "young and naive".  I'm sure he can think for himself at this point.

In fact that news article from NZ is just rife with ignorance:

"This is a trend that will continue, too. Celtic clubs are fast identifying what they term New Zealand's project players – athletes they can secure early and groom into international stars. That way, they can compete on a different recruitment level with the riches in France."

No, that isn't what is happening at all and this is pathetic journalism. This has absolutely nothing to do with the national team.

It has everything to do with it. They're blackmailing these guys to give up their national identity.

NZ should make that clear by revoking NZ citizenship whilst we await the contracts being rendered illegal by the European courts.

Rory we're at opposite ends of the earth and neither NZ and Ireland are big countries. You speak of ignorance from NZ posters but there seems to be the perception among some of your fellow posters that the side that started against Ireland was full of people born outside NZ. That would lead to a false media perception at your end. There is poor journalism everywhere sadly in this day and age.

The thing that stands out for me in this issue is that the club scene is casting its net wider for its recruitment and that net is cast the most in Japan and Europe. The IRB needs to acknowledge this shift and recognize that players are being caught up in this club net and that this has consequences for test rugby. Players are free to choose where they play club rugby but they shouldn't be able to choose so freely where they play test rugby. That involves tightening the laws.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Rory we're at opposite ends of the earth and neither NZ and Ireland are big countries. You speak of ignorance from NZ posters but there seems to be the perception among some of your fellow posters that the side that started against Ireland was full of people born outside NZ. That would lead to a false media perception at your end. There is poor journalism everywhere sadly in this day and age.

The thing that stands out for me in this issue is that the club scene is casting its net wider for its recruitment and that net is cast the most in Japan and Europe. The IRB needs to acknowledge this shift and recognize that players are being caught up in this club net and that this has consequences for test rugby. Players are free to choose where they play club rugby but they shouldn't be able to choose so freely where they play test rugby. That involves tightening the laws.

Every test team has players from outside of their country playing in their team. Even NZ has had plenty down through the years. I don't know why Aki has all of sudden started a stir just because he said he wants to play for Ireland.

Lam would have told him he had a chance of playing for Ireland to get him to sign for Connacht but I haven't seen the IRFU say that he will. If the IRFU had anything to do with this signing then he would have signed for Leinster or Munster as both of them need centers.

Irish clubs are openly importing foreign players and locking them out of selection for their natural homelands. That's the difference.

NZ aren't scouring Europe and importing players to provincial clubs with binding contracts forcing them to declare ineligibility for their homelands and basically keeping them in the country just long enough to flout the qualification rules.

It's making a mockery of the system, and of international sport.

Will it prove anything if England or Ireland or Scotland win a World Cup replete with 15 SANZAR club players on 3 year project contracts?

It's just filthy and it makes me sick.

In fact the european nations are now acting in exactly the manner that they erroneously criticised NZ for behaving all those years. Scouring, scouting, poaching. It's pitiful. It's pathetic. The IRB need to realise they need to sustainably improve the NH, not just import half the SH.

Biltong wrote: Just as a rule of thumb, if a poster attacks another poster then report the post, we don't read all posts.

Another thing, we don't ban posters because we don't agree or like what they say.

So again GE, you disprove your own theory.

ME-109 you're warned, no attacking the poster.

Don't want to get into a bunfight Biltong but just to note while I might have suggested the poster was a banker it came after a series of insults from yer man because of his inability to discuss the point or just pointing out the inanity of his posts.

ah sure I couldn't be arsed and just feel sorry for em...a whole five million people trapped alive in the south seas...no wonder they are cranky

GloriousEmpire wrote:Irish clubs are openly importing foreign players and locking them out of selection for their natural homelands. That's the difference.

NZ aren't scouring Europe and importing players to provincial clubs with binding contracts forcing them to declare ineligibility for their homelands and basically keeping them in the country just long enough to flout the qualification rules.

It's making a mockery of the system, and of international sport.

Will it prove anything if England or Ireland or Scotland win a World Cup replete with 15 SANZAR club players on 3 year project contracts?

It's just filthy and it makes me sick.

The first line of your post is simply not true and this whole thing has been explained to you numerous of times but you keep ignoring it.

They are scouring the Pacific islands though...  

Sickening. Rugby in NH is dead with no pride.

Ok, maybe not. It's possibly more accurate to say some NZ rugby players and coaches have no pride. Sounds like most of you NH guys don't want these imposter players anyway. You want the coaches though

ME-109 wrote:

Biltong wrote: Just as a rule of thumb, if a poster attacks another poster then report the post, we don't read all posts.

Another thing, we don't ban posters because we don't agree or like what they say.

So again GE, you disprove your own theory.

ME-109 you're warned, no attacking the poster.

Don't want to get into a bunfight Biltong but just to note while I might have suggested the poster was a banker it came after a series of insults from yer man because of his inability to discuss the point or just pointing out the inanity of his posts.

ah sure I couldn't be arsed and just feel sorry for em...a whole five million people trapped alive in the south seas...no wonder they are cranky

Believe the Łąck of action over this post actually proves my point biltong.

You don't like qualifying through residency then GE, or is it just the latest thing to have a go at the NH?

Nothing wrong with having a sensible regulation that allows a player who has lived in a country eventually qualifying - but importing a player specifically with that aim and locking in the contract before he sets foot in the country is against the spirit of international sport, aside from being a sad indictment of the actual country importing. What does it say to their youngsters? Don't bother - we prefer to have a team made of imported Samoans and kiwis and South Africans because we know you won't be good enough and we've spent development money on importing other players from overseas.

Sad. Sad. Sad.

Irish supporters should just buy All Blacks and Samoan shirts and give up on their homeland perhaps?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Nothing wrong with having a sensible regulation that allows a player who has lived in a country eventually qualifying  - but importing a player specifically with that aim and locking in the contract before he sets foot in the country is against the spirit of international sport, aside from being a sad indictment of the actual country importing. What does it say to their youngsters? Don't bother - we prefer to have a team made of imported Samoans and kiwis and South Africans because we know you won't be good enough and we've spent development money on importing other players from overseas.

Sad. Sad. Sad.

Irish supporters should just buy All Blacks and Samoan shirts and give up on their homeland perhaps?

The IRFU controls the provinces so any non capped player that is signed by a province is essentially a "project player". What do you suggest? Should the Irish provinces not sign un-capped players?

Your post shows a real lack of understanding of the situation and the history of Irish rugby.

No it doesn't. The Irish are blatantly poaching. You can live in denial all you want. But when a player signs up for residency qualification for Ireland before he's set foot in the place then that's a sad indictment on Irish rugby. Whatever its history.

At least the welsh still have their dignity.

Out of interest GE do you have any quotes from Ireland officials on Aki or are you just going from his own quotes of now wanting to become qualified to play for them?

GloriousEmpire wrote:No it doesn't. The Irish are blatantly poaching. You can live in denial all you want. But when a player signs up for residency qualification for Ireland before he's set foot in the place then that's a sad indictment on Irish rugby. Whatever its history.

At least the welsh still have their dignity.

You're embarassing yourself again. There is no guarentee that Bundee Aki will play for Ireland whatsoever. How is signing a player for a province poaching?

With the rules as they are surely it makes more sense to sign un capped players as if over time they have proved themselves an asset to the country and there isnt a better player around then give them a cap?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:In fact that news article from NZ is just rife with ignorance:

"This is a trend that will continue, too. Celtic clubs are fast identifying what they term New Zealand's project players – athletes they can secure early and groom into international stars. That way, they can compete on a different recruitment level with the riches in France."

No, that isn't what is happening at all and this is pathetic journalism.  This has absolutely nothing to do with the national team.

 
Ask yourself this question Rory, What does the IRFU's "Professional Contracts Review group" do? Or are you saying that P.C.R.G wouldnt be confirming Aki's contract is in line with IRFU policy?

The hypocracy from Kiwis is staggering. NZ has whether the fans like to admit it or not benefitted from their proximity to places like Samoa, Fiji and Tonga yet have been very slow to give back. Bundee Aki is of Samoan heritage himself, one of many families that go to NZ for a better life.

However, NZ rarely play Samoa for example. In Richie McCaw's 120 plus caps he has never once played Samoa. Fairly sad given how close the two nations are. In the last 11 years Ireland and Scotland are the only top ten teams to play Samoa in Samoa.

Maybe if the Sanzar nations helped set up a Super 15 team in Samoa their players could remain there or repatriate there rather than playing in Europe or for NZ and Aus teams. Perhaps NZ rugby could actually be part of the solution rather than part of the problem?

Aki himself said that if it doesnt work out in Ireland he would like to return to Samoa.

The current IRB schedule for internationals doesn't have a section for ad-hoc 'local' games. You have Europe touring rest of the world in June and the rest of the world touring Europe in November. The other slots are for organised competitions.

Also the Pacific Island teams, Samoa in particular benefit, from access to a lot of players who have been born into and brought though the professional New Zealand rugby structure.

There should be a tour to the Islands by (a) european team(s), every year.

HammerofThunor wrote:The current IRB schedule for internationals doesn't have a section for ad-hoc 'local' games.  You have Europe touring rest of the world in June and the rest of the world touring Europe in November.  The other slots are for organised competitions.

Also the Pacific Island teams, Samoa in particular benefit, from access to a lot of players who have been born into and brought though the professional New Zealand rugby structure.

There should be a tour to the Islands by (a) european team(s), every year.

Sounds like the Bledisloe cup. There didnt seem to be any issues scheduling extra NZ v Aus games in the past. The ABs just prefer to set their schedules according to what pays the most.

Also why there cant be a Samoa and Fiji super 15 franchise?

GunsGerms wrote:The hypocracy from Kiwis is staggering. NZ has whether the fans like to admit it or not benefitted from their proximity to places like Samoa, Fiji and Tonga yet have been very slow to give back. Bundee Aki is of Samoan heritage himself, one of many families that go to NZ for a better life.

However, NZ rarely play Samoa for example. In Richie McCaw's 120 plus caps he has never once played Samoa. Fairly sad given how close the two nations are. In the last 11 years Ireland and Scotland are the only top ten teams to play Samoa in Samoa.

Maybe if the Sanzar nations helped set up a Super 15 team in Samoa their players could remain there or repatriate there rather than playing in Europe or for NZ and Aus teams. Perhaps NZ rugby could actually be part of the solution rather than part of the problem?

Aki himself said that if it doesnt work out in Ireland he would like to return to Samoa.

I've mostly stayed out of this, but if you are going to slag fans I'll bite.

Hypocracy of nz fans. Some fans more likely. The issues you raise aren't new and are discussed here in nz. So lets look at them.

Nz essentially doesn't play in the islands. True. Ask any kiwi and likely they'll say we should and there's no excuse. Could end it there but I'll dig a bit deeper. Traditionally, we've only played them in nz and have sent lesser teams to the islands. So there has been some contact. However, not enough. In an ideal world an island team would be included in super rugby and in the rugby championship. I'm pretty sure nz has been pushing for this. I think the issue is the people that pay won't buy into it, primarily because they don't generate income, being third world states. It's sad but Japan is more likely to be involved than Fiji.

Outside of that Scotland is more likely to play in the islands than nz. That's primarily due to the test schedule. Nz, Australia and sa are pretty much tied into end of year tours and the rc. Financial sustainability means only tier 1 northern nations will tour in June. Scotland will tour the islands because at the moment they're defined as a lower tier and won't be undertaking 3 match tours of nz etc. all that aside I wish it weren't so.

In terms of nz benefiting from their proximity to the islands. It's almost always overstated. It is true. Nz is linked to the islands. W Samoa was administrated by nz until 1949. A privy council ruling effectively meant anyone born before then was also a kiwi. Aside from this and mass migration from the islands. Nz is tied into the schools in the islands through missionaries (e.g. The Marist brothers operate schools in tonga, Fiji and Samoa) and provide schooling in nz for children from the islands (e.g Wellesley). It is also true that some pi children come to nz on sports scholarships and that sometimes adults come to nz and play rugby.

If I had my way none of these players would be eligible. The reality is that the issue is small. In most cases raised by posters the players arrived in nz as small children. For a short period of time in the late 90's some players did arrive as adults. There weren't many. The issue now is usually 13 to 15 year olds who come here to stay with family or attend boarding school. This is similar to a number of other nations and involves a small no of players. I'd love the loop to be closed.

The reality is that the island national sides are heavily influenced by nz. Samoa in particular is dominated by kiwis with Samoan roots. Having a Samoan passport opens job opportunities in Europe a kiwi or Aussie one can't compete with (I.e. essentially treatment as a European national).

The reason why you'll find kiwi's and staffers so passionate about it isn't because we hate the northern unions, but because the current set up is savaging the game down here. I think it's potentially threatening it's existence in nz in the longer term. To give you an idea of the scale of the problem.

1. We have a small playing population
2. We have a small professional set up
3. We have a small economy and high costs (travel).
4. Many of the top players are lost to league contracts while at school
5. The expansion of professional rugby in Australia has seen the increased targeting of young nz players
6. The loss of professional players to clubs in Europe, Japan and Australia is increasing.
7. The loss of coaches at all levels overseas.

The impact at the moment is huge. We're a similar size to Ireland in terms of players. Imagine if Ireland lost the equivalent of 2 provinces, including staff and junior squads. The numbers are bigger than that, i think. That should give you some idea of the scale of the problem. We still have talent and our system is extremely efficient and effective. But it's becoming more and more like a Swiss cheese. You'll have to excuse us kiwi fans if we're bit peed about the situation.

The same issues happened in other sports. It's structural. The reality is regulations are probably the only practical solution.  Sad thing is I can't see it happening. The only saving grace at the moment is the warriors are pants.

That's outside the international window so the vast majority of the PI players won't be available.

Do Samoa and Fiji want a S15 franchise? Can they afford to support one to the required level to be much benefit? Given that the Spanish team in Amlin had to pull out because they couldn't afford to compete I don't see how it would be any better for them.

What needs to happen is for European teams to tour the Pacific Islands every year. Or, if they and the NZRU are willing, play some of their 'home' games in Aukland and have them keep the gate money (as the RFU did for the Argentina union in 2008).

Thanks for the sensible response blackcanelion.

Couple of things. There are only 4 professional teams in Ireland so surely the playing pool is much smaller? Your ITM cup teams and Super rugby teams are all professional arent they?

Also the amount and impact of "project players" coming to Ireland is also blown out of proportion. There have been Kiwis playing rugby here for years but very few of them have played for Ireland and I can not envisage a scenario where there will ever be more than one or two foreign players in an Ireland side such is their comittment to developing homegrown players too.

Cheers. I don't have a problem with individual clubs, players or nations. I think the overall structures wrong. In terms of players they are all acting for their own best interests as is everyone else. A few pi players in nz, or kiwis in Ireland isn't an issue. It's the wider problem of players moving to play sport, national representation, and how rugby deals with it. I possibly overstated it, it just seems so invasive here at the moment. Football went through it 10 years ago with brazilians. I think they're ahead of us.

Good post blackcanelion. It's for this reason I want the IRB to act to tighten up on this residency farce. The Irish are not even the worst offenders, French clubs are starting to look at the islands with the philosophy that if you offer a talented Tongan (or whatever nationality) youngster an Academy contract at 18, by 21 he'll not count against the quotas they need to meet for homegrown players who are qualified for the national team due to residency.

Ultimately it's accelerating the process of players leaving to play in a few rich countries because its an additional carrot that can be dangled by clubs and provinces in the NH when trying to attract players.

The residency period should be made longer and national teams should have a very low threshold set on the number of residency qualified players that can be selected in any one match day squad.

Notch wrote:Good post blackcanelion. It's for this reason I want the IRB to act to tighten up on this residency farce. The Irish are not even the worst offenders, French clubs are starting to look at the islands with the philosophy that if you offer a talented Tongan (or whatever nationality) youngster an Academy contract at 18, by 21 he'll not count against the quotas they need to meet for homegrown players  who are qualified for the national team due to residency.

Ultimately it's accelerating the process of players leaving to play in a few rich countries because its an additional carrot that can be dangled by clubs and provinces in the NH when trying to attract players.

The residency period should be made longer and national teams should have a very low threshold set on the number of residency qualified players that can be selected in any one match day squad.

Playing devils advocate here, rugby is a professional sport. The arguments being used are very similar to those used by Ireland and Irish provinces in relation to the Heineken cup. In that case the market won out. Why shouldn't the market win out in this case. I mean the arguments used by kiwi's in relation to the P.I are financial. Shouldn't the free market apply to them also?

NZ does play Samoa, Tonga and Fiji regularly. Via the pacific islands cup. Usually it's NZ A or the NZ maori involved. Usually NZ wins it. By a lot. There's very little argument for heaping a yearly humiliation on these countries.

Samoa and Tonga both prefer to play NZ in Auckland because they get a larger gate taking.

NZ does "give back" massively. Samoa fielded a starting 15 entirely comprising NZ born players in the last RWC. Fay-Richewhite (an NZ company) funded Samoan rugby for about a decade and continue sponsorship now.

Anyone who can't see the difference between NZ with historic, political, cultural and geographic ties with pacific islands (NZ is one and has the largest Polynesian population of any country) as Ireland paying a guy to renege his citizenship and wait out a three year residency to play for Ireland is not clear thinking individual.

NZ have scaled back involvement with Fiji for political reasons (there was a coup. The army runs the country. The rugby union has been found guilty of corruption).

To equate NZ and Ireland's behaviour of late is staggeringly ignorant.

GloriousEmpire wrote:NZ does play Samoa, Tonga and Fiji regularly. Via the pacific islands cup. Usually it's NZ A or the NZ maori involved. Usually NZ wins it. By a lot. There's very little argument for heaping a yearly humiliation on these countries.

Samoa and Tonga both prefer to play NZ in Auckland because they get a larger gate taking.

NZ does "give back" massively. Samoa fielded a starting 15 entirely comprising NZ born players in the last RWC. Fay-Richewhite (an NZ company) funded Samoan rugby for about a decade and continue sponsorship now.

Anyone who can't see the difference between NZ with historic, political, cultural and geographic ties with pacific islands (NZ is one and has the largest Polynesian population of any country) as Ireland paying a guy to renege his citizenship and wait out a three year residency to play for Ireland is not clear thinking individual.

NZ have scaled back involvement with Fiji for political reasons (there was a coup. The army runs the country. The rugby union has been found guilty of corruption).

To equate NZ and Ireland's behaviour of late is staggeringly ignorant.

No your being entirely ignorant of the argument I'm making. The changes to the European Competition were based on free market principles and devil take the hindmost. Ireland do not target players to make them eligible for Ireland. In fact they probably have the restrictive policy in terms of none Irish qualified players. The point I'm making is that northern hemisphere rugby is being run on free market principles, one of which is the free movement of people and capital. If Ireland were deliberately targeting kiwi players to play for Ireland he wouldn't be one you would be looking at given that he's already 24 years old. This is more to do with the fact that pat Lamb is the coach of Connaught and he's using his Kiwi connections to strengthen. Connaught has the smallest playing pool of the irish provinces, as a result of IRFU rule in relation to irish qualified players Leinster Munster and ulster are much more reluctant to loan or transfer players to connaught, this requires them to look outside Ireland for additional players

Connacht.

Also very few Connacht players are selected to play for Ireland so therefore I doubt Aki will buck that trend. He would want to be very very good.

GunsGerms wrote:Connacht.

Also very few Connacht players are selected to play for Ireland so therefore I doubt Aki will buck that trend. He would want to be very very good.

apologies for typo

No problem its a common one in all fairness.

Munster have 5 none Irish qualified players Leinster 4 Ulster have 5. THose numbers will actually decrease as both BJ Botha and John Afoa are leaving Munster and leinster at the end of their contracts

tecphobe wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:NZ does play Samoa, Tonga and Fiji regularly. Via the pacific islands cup. Usually it's NZ A or the NZ maori involved. Usually NZ wins it. By a lot. There's very little argument for heaping a yearly humiliation on these countries.

Samoa and Tonga both prefer to play NZ in Auckland because they get a larger gate taking.

NZ does "give back" massively. Samoa fielded a starting 15 entirely comprising NZ born players in the last RWC. Fay-Richewhite (an NZ company) funded Samoan rugby for about a decade and continue sponsorship now.

Anyone who can't see the difference between NZ with historic, political, cultural and geographic ties with pacific islands (NZ is one and has the largest Polynesian population of any country) as Ireland paying a guy to renege his citizenship and wait out a three year residency to play for Ireland is not clear thinking individual.

NZ have scaled back involvement with Fiji for political reasons (there was a coup. The army runs the country. The rugby union has been found guilty of corruption).

To equate NZ and Ireland's behaviour of late is staggeringly ignorant.

No your being entirely ignorant of the argument I'm making. The changes to the European Competition were based on free market principles and devil take the hindmost. Ireland do not target players to make them eligible for Ireland. In fact they probably have the restrictive policy in terms of none Irish qualified players. The point I'm making is that northern hemisphere rugby is being run on free market principles, one of which is the free movement of people and capital. If Ireland were deliberately targeting kiwi players to play for Ireland he wouldn't be one you would be looking at given that he's already 24 years old. This is more to do with the fact that pat Lamb is the coach  of Connaught and he's using his Kiwi connections to strengthen.  Connaught has the smallest playing pool of the irish provinces, as a result of IRFU rule in relation to irish qualified players Leinster Munster and ulster are much more reluctant to loan or transfer players to connaught, this requires them to look outside Ireland for  additional players  

The "free market"? What are you even talking about. The free market doesn't exist. Wow. Now the true depth of ignorance is being revealed.