Wlad vs Vitali

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Ok gents I am sure this topic has probably been covered before but I'm curious for your opinons.

This isn't a question of who's record is better.

This is a head to head, peak for peak.

Wlad hits harder and is faster, though Vitali is more unorthodox and is a hell of a lot tougher.

I would pick Vitali to Ko Wlad within 7-8 rounds.

Bellz84 wrote:

For my money Wlad hits a fair bit harder than Vitali, and this is down to far better technique. However, clearly Wlad can be hurt by Vitali so there would always be the chance for Vitali to win by KO. BUT, I'm pretty sure Wlad could hurt Vitali enough with his jab to stop him wading in. This would be a great fight, and while I wouldn't put a great deal of money on it, I would pick Wlad to win by stoppage.

Wlad goes down so easy on a sucker punch like against Brewster or Sanders, in comparison Vitali can take a lot punches including Lewis upper right and stay fight for longer rounds easy. Sanders match is the trump card in deciding what the outcome would be, Sanders traded such blows on both klitchkos but ended winning 1 fight in 2 rounds and lost all his energy by 6th against the bigger brother.

If this match happen, they both will trade blows and surely one sucker blow from Vitali will kO Wlad , but if some how wlad holds for 12 rounds he might win by decision, so my verdict is 2/3 times Vitali will win and Wlad will win once. Its highly unrealistic for 2 fighters to play more than 3 times.

Lewis was more than capable of winning the fight without the cut. The writing was on the wall after the first 3 rounds. Lewis was absolutely awful in that fight. Woefully undercooked and barely awake in the beggining. It took a few whacks to the chops to wake him up and make him realise he was in a fight. After that he began to take over the fight. There are many a heavyweight that would have taken Lewis out early in that fight when he was in that state. He was dreadful. Bruno would have had him out for the count in that shape.

That is a fair point, Lewis wasn't able to stop Vitali coming in, but that version of Lewis was not prime Lewis. Wlad is so good on his feet that he may be able to keep away from Vitali and pepper him enough with the jab to keep Vitali from getting too reckless. In a boxing match, Wlad wins every time, in a fight, Vitali wins every time. One of those matchups where nothing would surprise you, Wlad could get knocked out in 30 seconds!

Bellz84 wrote:That is a fair point, Lewis wasn't able to stop Vitali coming in, but that version of Lewis was not prime Lewis. Wlad is so good on his feet that he may be able to keep away from Vitali and pepper him enough with the jab to keep Vitali from getting too reckless. In a boxing match, Wlad wins every time, in a fight, Vitali wins every time. One of those matchups where nothing would surprise you, Wlad could get knocked out in 30 seconds!

Whether it was peak Lewis or not, it was still a Lewis who packed one hell of a right hand especially his famed uppercut, Vitali walked through that punishment so there's no chance the ultra conservative Wlad is going to stop him marching forwards. Facing somebody of equal size his jab will be negated and he'll get knocked out sooner rather than later.

Wlad winning would surprise me honestly.
Power is generally the last thing that goes for a fighter (generally), Lewis didnt get Vitali to respect his power - and he landed a lot... Wlad really isn't going get broski to second guess himself coming In.

The Lewis vitali fight is one of those Where you can put whatever spin you want on it. Lewis was past his best and his heaviest ever having 'trained' for a useless shortarse he ends up fighting a not useless giant. But it was just as short notice for vitali.

I was surprised lewis took the fight. Vitali was a genuine threat... If you'd watched him prior to that. You'd want a proper camp to fight him. But that sums lewis up... He should have a proper camp for every fight but he clearly didn't. In condition he should be able to adapt to what's in front of him, he wasn't and he couldn't.

It's no disservice to vitali as he undoubtedly contributed to how bad lewis looked, but Lennox was throwing wild haymakers all night.

To me though, after a rocky 2nd round, he never looked likely to get ko'd by vitali, though a tko from exhaustion was a possibility. Likewise vitali took everything lewis chucked at him... However, bit of a myth for me that he wasn't troubled by that uppercut. He held on for about 30 seconds afterwards. Lewis was too knackered to shake him off and get distance.

Without the cut, I don't think anyone could say for sure who would win. After the first two rounds it was an even fight. Gun to my head, vitali had thrown twice the leather lewis had, but Lennox was still there and finding vitali easier to hit. I'd slightly err to lewis but wouldn't argue with someone taking the opposite view.

Gun to head, I think Lewis takes it. That was Vitali's first big fight, and I think he got caught in the lights. He improved a lot after that, and it's a pity a combination of injuries, and pispoor opposition ensured he never had a magnus Opus

That said though, Lewis looked physically spent...

Vitali couldn't stop Lewis when Lewis was on the way down and had lost interest in boxing by that stage but I still think he would have been too much for his younger brother at any stage of their careers.

rapidringsroad wrote:Vitali couldn't stop Lewis when Lewis was on the way down and had lost interest in boxing by that stage but I still think he would have been too much for his younger brother at any stage of their careers.

I agree your sentiments but don't agree the argument with it, Vitali was upcoming and hasn't faced a fighter of Lewis level before, Lewis on the other hand has faced several gaints of the sport from Tyson [off peak however], Evander, to Rehman etc,.. , I would say Vitali was very unlucky on several accounts starting from how on short notice he had to prepare for the fight.

The fight isin't a fair reflection of both players capability, it would have been one awesome of a fight had they both squared at the their prime and had it happened on the same era. i am pretty sure it would have ended up with 1 win each. I don't get that feeling on Wlad, Wlad would have never got a rematch vs Lewis after Lewis knocked the Poopie out of him in a 3 round KO.

Vitali was not unlucky. He got the chance to fight a Lennox Lewis who was old, unmotivated, slow, underprepared and not at the races for the first few rounds of the fight. He still couldnt manage to get the job done. If he was a great heavyweight he would have had Lewis out of there. That was Lewis at his poorest at the end of his career. Never a better chance for a supposed great heavyweight to do a number on him. Vitali gets way too much credit for losing a fight against a 2nd rate Lewis.

catchweight wrote:Vitali was not unlucky. He got the chance to fight a Lennox Lewis who was old, unmotivated, slow, underprepared and not at the races for the first few rounds of the fight. He still couldnt manage to get the job done. If he was a great heavyweight he would have had Lewis out of there. That was Lewis at his poorest at the end of his career. Never a better chance for a supposed great heavyweight to do a number on him. Vitali gets way too much credit for losing a fight against a 2nd rate Lewis.

Two things need consideration there,

1]Your argument, lewis too old and not at his best physically and yet Vitali failed to capitalize it for a win.

2]Counter argument, for whatever Lewis might have lost physically he had covered mentally with his experience as the Champ as a legend, he knows how to win, he knows how to prepare, he knew how to make his opponent nervous, Vitali on the other hand took a dream chance that came his way even though it was a short notice, second should have been very nervous in the initial rounds to face a legendary boxer and its the first ever fight of that level, last but not least he will still winning by points and only lost by a cut, had there been a rematch should Vitali would have won even Lewis knew that, but the question is would Vitali win had there been a rematch against Lewis at his prime may be may not be.

My argument is Klitschko couldnt beat Lewis at his worst. What chance would he have beating Lewis at his best? Very little.

As much as people want to spin things for Klitschko, the reality is Lewis was uderprepared, at the end of his career, unmotivated and all round pretty rubbish for the fight. He practically gave the first couple rounds away. Klitschko couldnt have asked for a better opportunity to beat him. And couldnt. After a slow start, Lewis began to get moving and stopped Klitschko.

catchweight wrote:My argument is Klitschko couldnt beat Lewis at his worst. What chance would he have beating Lewis at his best? Very little.

As much as people want to spin things for Klitschko, the reality is Lewis was uderprepared, at the end of his career, unmotivated and all round pretty rubbish for the fight. He practically gave the first couple rounds away. Klitschko couldnt have asked for a better opportunity to beat him. And couldnt. After a slow start, Lewis began to get moving and stopped Klitschko.

However I agree with your point one incomplete fight doesn't define a career CatchWeight, if thats the case Rahman would have been portrayed as the GOAT of his era till he lost his rematch vs Lewis, I won't say chances are very little for Vitali to beat Lewis at his prime, Lewis would have started favorite but surely Vitali will have close to a good chance for a win.

Those 6 rounds against Lewis have practically made a martry out of Klitschko. You would think he won the fight the way its told by some people. Lewis was a great heavyweight, the last genuinely great heavyweight. But he wasnt at that level against Klitschko. He was there for the taking. I think if Klitschko was the great powerful unstoppable heavyweight hes made out to be he should have been able to beat that out of sorts Lewis and beat him well. A top class heavyweight would have.

Lennox TKO6.......end of.

Do think Catchy has a point in so much as an old tiring Lewis did beat Vitali......Which points to an era of mediocrity.......and more than points to at least Vitali's limitations..

Will say though that the Klits are good heavyweight champions If not great......No worse than Braddock, Carnera, Sharkey types.....

Lewis in fairness did outclass Rahman in the return......

They're consderably better than that lot in my book truss. Not k2's fault the division is dross, but it does make it hard to assess them.

Physically not much between them.

Heart, reflex, stanima and chin all in favour a Vitali.

Orthodoxy, strength and one punch power in favour of Wlad.

Vitali knows his little bro would crumble when he stepped on the pressure mid rounds onwards.

Psychology would play a part in this. Vitali is mentally more resiliant than Wlad. I feel Wlad would be fearful of his big brother (not because Vitali has stopped a couple of Wlads victors but because of childhoods and all that instead).  Vitali would probably have won this battle won before they even set foot in the ring.

3fingers wrote:

(not because Vitali has stopped a couple of Wlads victors but because of childhoods and all that instead).  Vitali would probably have won this battle won before they even set foot in the ring.

What if they wouldn't be brothers? and had a heated rivalry?

Vitali at his best would have put his little brother away in 3 rounds, both would land big shots but only one could take them. Due to Vitali's size and strength all the dodgy tricks that Wlad uses to stop his opponents being able to land a punch would be negated and he would be brutalized.

hogey wrote:Vitali at his best would have put his little brother away in 3 rounds, both would land big shots but only one could take them. Due to Vitali's size and strength all the dodgy tricks that Wlad uses to stop his opponents being able to land a punch would be negated and he would be brutalized.

When has Vitali ever stopped a top heavyweight in 3 rounds? unless you say the morbidly obese Kirk Johnson...

Do many top heavyweights have a chin as poor as Wlad, he uses his size and dubious tactics to keep the chin out of the way, but as i say i reckon against Vitali these would not come into play. Vitali might not have been a huge one punch artist but he hit more than hard enough to take care of Wlad.

Also Vitali had more flair in the fights in comparison to Wlad.

hogey wrote:Do many top heavyweights have a chin as poor as Wlad, he uses his size and dubious tactics to keep the chin out of the way, but as i say i reckon against Vitali these would not come into play. Vitali might not have been a huge one punch artist but he hit more than hard enough to take care of Wlad.

No idea it's all guesswork but Vitali's whole reputation is basically based off of the Lewis fight, he hardly faced any other top contenders compared to his brother. Despite what most seemed to have convinced themselves, Wlad doesn't go down on the wind from a missed punch, Williamson,Peter,Sanders and Brewster were all big punchers, (definitely bigger than Vitali with one shot) Wlad was gung ho and just looked for the KO and had no defense when he was caught by them.

Flair? I don't think Vitali was every a flair boxer, young Wlad coming up with his lead left hooks, KO'ing guys coming out of the clinch were much most aesthetically pleasing then anything his brother ever did.

To be fair to Wlad, he did clock a cold one from Haye, and didn't collapse in a heap. I watched an HBO special (circa 2009) on little brother. It actually dawned on me how "fearful" for lack of a better word, Wlad is in a fight. Lands a clean right, with his opponent pretty much gone, instead of going for the kill, he goes for the clinch. Lands a pretty cross right, and with his opponent pretty much out of it, he gets out of the pocket, takes a second to make sure this guy really can't hit back, than goes back in. The guy hits and hits hard. But in a genuine 'ship fight, you have to show a bit of mongrel and semi suicidal tendencies, when you have a guy going, I don't think Wlad has it, and that's why I think it always ends when Vitali decides it's Gut check time.

kingraf wrote:To be fair to Wlad, he did clock a cold one from Haye, and didn't collapse in a heap. I watched an HBO special (circa 2009) on little brother. It actually dawned on me how "fearful" for lack of a better word, Wlad is in a fight. Lands a clean right, with his opponent pretty much gone, instead of going for the kill, he goes for the clinch. Lands a pretty cross right, and with his opponent pretty much out of it, he gets out of the pocket, takes a second to make sure this guy really can't hit back, than goes back in. The guy hits and hits hard. But in a genuine 'ship fight, you have to show a bit of mongrel and semi suicidal tendencies, when you have a guy going, I don't think Wlad has it, and that's why I think it always ends when Vitali decides it's Gut check time.

Wlad is more of a boxer to fighter and Vitali is more of a fighter to boxer, Wlad is very defensive and Vitali is more aggressive than Wlad, so in general i prefer Vitali's fight over Wlad and hence support him to win.