New Zealand v England 3rd test & the 2nd test review

First topic message reminder :

1000 posts and the 2nd test thread is blocked time to move onto the 3rd test in Hamilton.

What are England's chances of securing a win?
Could NZ win convincingly?
Will it be close again?
Who will play?
How much will the referee affect the game?

Let the banter begin..................

Oh, and feel free to discuss test's 1 and 2.

Ashton can't even tackle Savea, hopeless

Shame, one last score would have be nice but this is a fairer reflection.

It's no tour from hell but it certainly shows eng where they are and how big a gap there still is to be a word cup prospect even at home.

GeordieFalcon wrote:How can you blame just ashton?

The defence coach needs a kick up the backside.

And again its not just THIS game...it was evident all through the 6n aswell!!

Where we had a really good defensive record? Stop chatting bullsh*t GF. Yes we've been pants but to say this has been evident from the 6n is rubbish,

Dickson is SO SLOW. Why did we sub Youngs after he finally found some form?

After Wilson's iffy tour Brookes could get to be second choice behind Cole by the end of the AIs given Cole is likely to miss those as well.

we still have issues in finishing off our chances.

England just aren't there yet. But this is the ABs away and a win was unlikely this year, although I'm hopeful for the Autumn and we need to turn it on in the 6N!

Really good 2nd half from England

You said an 18 point margin Tman. You don't know what you're talking about.   

Lawes getting the ball ripped out, that reminds me of a certain game!

Big guys like lawes getting the ball ripped too easy does not look pretty.

Excellent finish to the game

shoudn't of been a try, it looked like the ball went forward

WHAT a TEAM. That's all that needs saying.

Kia - have to laugh - called it too early mate

Welcome back Corey Jane!. Fend, fend overhead...all class...

Oh FFs , all that work and nothing but an all too easy try at the end to show for it.

Sums up the difference though, all about precision.

I would say back to the drawing board at all but they have a long journey to get to this level.  Not sure they ever will.

Great stuff by ABs. Again, not good enough by England.

Went for the try because they heard Taylorman screaming to get 2 more points.

Draw second half?

The thing for me was with a man down the ABs didn't concede

wheres that jimpy? The 18+ I gave him should be worth a bit!  

Fair play Tman. You called it.   

Seriously worrying for them. Under twenties bring some real heart to the tour but the seniors have been seen off time after time.

Overall is the tour a failure?

great play ABs. love watching their backs play. hate watching their forwards infringe all day long.

true 7 man rugby

    

Great 20 mins last week. Excellent 40 this week. At some stage they'll put 80 down

See... that's the diff. If England had been in NZ's position on the scoreboard the ball would have been punted into the stands 3 minutes ago. Instead it's another try to Savea.

Much better 2nd half from England. Yarde great to watch with the ball but he was one of the few shining lights in the team.

Otagolad wrote:Really good 2nd half from England

It wasn'y Otogolad, it was awful. Dropped passes under no pressure, missed tackles, lateral running. You took your best guys off and switched off and we still were terrible.

Well played New Zealand. Think they made their point.
England have a lot of work to do, but they have the personnel to get there. Attitude in the first half wasn't positive enough for me.
All Blacks better everywhere but the scrum.
Well done AB's class rugby there!

Manu's Boxing Coach wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:How can you blame just ashton?

The defence coach needs a kick up the backside.

And again its not just THIS game...it was evident all through the 6n aswell!!

Where we had a really good defensive record? Stop chatting bullsh*t GF. Yes we've been pants but to say this has been evident from the 6n is rubbish,

Got to agree with GF. First line of defence has been poor for ages but against he 6N sides we scramble well enough and fast enough to keep them out. Someone was saying before than a speed bump tackle (one that's not completed but slows down the attacker) is not considered a missed tackle by the coaches. That fine against 6N sides but against these guys? They'll rip you a new one...as they did.

Linebreaker wrote:See... that's the diff. If England had been in NZ's position on the scoreboard the ball would have been punted into the stands 3 minutes ago. Instead it's another try to Savea.

Much better 2nd half from England. Yarde great to watch with the ball but he was one of the few shining lights in the team.

Which is annoying as they have some damned good forwards especially.

Hood - great in comparison to the first half

Well done ABs. A masterclass. You were 50% better, we were 50% worse and frankly, that score line massively flattered us.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Seriously worrying for them.  Under twenties bring some real heart to the tour but the seniors have been seen off time after time.

Overall is the tour a failure?

We lost - so yeah a failure.

Linebreaker wrote:See... that's the diff. If England had been in NZ's position on the scoreboard the ball would have been punted into the stands 3 minutes ago. Instead it's another try to Savea.

Much better 2nd half from England. Yarde great to watch with the ball but he was one of the few shining lights in the team.

no, that's the very definition of a flat track bully. it's about being gracious, not chippy.

Otagolad wrote:Hood - great in comparison to the first half

God yes!   

OK, let the post mortem begin...

It's easy to forget but let's take a minute to commend these English boys. Their backs were up against the wall with the scheduling and the rookies put in the best performance of the tour. In a way this defeat tonight is a good one for England because the second test marked the difference between the two sides and this one showed them up. So hold your heads up England fans and the fact your team has a few things to work on is a positive for me. With all these players you've blooded and a RWC at home, you are a serious threat. Thanks for an intriguing series.   kia kaha

Excellent bench from England - Cips must start surely

trebellbobaggins wrote:Seriously worrying for them.  Under twenties bring some real heart to the tour but the seniors have been seen off time after time.

Overall is the tour a failure?

If you think those three high level workouts against the highest class opposition are a failure... leading into Autumn and next year's 6N and then the WC... then you're well off the mark, in my opinion.

Any tour is a failure if you don't win!
Thats the kind of what sport is about.     

Well thank you England. (and no it wasnt a failure). That was the best series we've had here in years. It got kiwis all worked up, and England could have won the first.

This side is very capable and will be 5-10 better off at home. Thoroughly enjoyed it and look forward to more. The World cup looks that much more interesting for them. England know whats ahead of them so thats something. Excellent series.

              

Poor tackling lost us that game. Everyone guilty but I'm afraid Ashton has had enough chances, you want the England shirt? You got to man up and put your body on the line.

Eastmond/Tuilagi did not work defensively. I wouldn't give up on it though.

Young's is sharp ball in hand but his service from the breakdown is too slow.

Lawes, Launchbury is still a very good 2nd row. Robshaw good on the ground (again).

Brown needs a break, Foden deserves a run.

Cipriani makes us look a lot more threatening in attack. #2 for him Imo.

quinsforever wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:See... that's the diff. If England had been in NZ's position on the scoreboard the ball would have been punted into the stands 3 minutes ago. Instead it's another try to Savea.

Much better 2nd half from England. Yarde great to watch with the ball but he was one of the few shining lights in the team.

no, that's the very definition of a flat track bully. it's about being gracious, not chippy.

  Classic stuff Quins. LB is a neutral as he's an Aussie. And you are not exactly the definition of a gracious loser. Just stick to the rugby comments: they do yourself a lot prouder than your rutting rhino on heat act.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:See... that's the diff. If England had been in NZ's position on the scoreboard the ball would have been punted into the stands 3 minutes ago. Instead it's another try to Savea.

Much better 2nd half from England. Yarde great to watch with the ball but he was one of the few shining lights in the team.

Which is annoying as they have some damned good forwards especially.

Yeah, I just think they were caught on the hop today and weren't able to play with that same intensity as they did in their last two matches.

England are always "learning" they act like they are some problem solving machine that will always get more intelligent!

When the reality is all you learn from losing is that you just were not good enough.
FACT.

Brilliant team - probably best ever seen and about to become so statistically with record no of straight wins - against promising bunch of less experienced less accomplished players = 3-0 series win and rightly so. 3 very entertaining games though with moments for English fans to have enjoyed.

No Tour from Hell but a steep learning curve. Well done ABs for a sublime rugby lesson, well done England for having lived with them most of the time over 3 Tests: not many would have resisted even this well. This AB team has 50 + points/game written all over it.

Best thing about this series?

Yarde moving to Quins We are going to be a different prospect with him

the tour was not a winning tour. but 90% of people beforehand thought it would be 3-0. so i dont think it can be figured a "failure" versus expectations. disappointing given how close England actually came to a victory in the first test, and how strong they were in the first half of the second test, but lets be honest i dont think we realistically expected to win a match here before the tour.

there have been some very big lessons learned though that is for sure. and the ABs did have to dig very deep in the first and second tests, and how hard they went in this last one shows how much the ABs wanted to win and win well. which to me, shows that this England team have done well.

Deluded - not sure about that. ABs haven't lost a series in NZ since 1994 so was always a tall order and historically they start slow and get better as a series goes on so after the first test the writing was always on the wall - 1 point last week didn't tell a story of the gap between the teams in that games and this week just extended it.

In saying that, I think England will have come away with a number of positives and some decisions on players. For me there is still 2 rugby seasons to go before the RWC so heaps of time for England to improve.

SimonofSurrey wrote:Brilliant team - probably best ever seen and about to become so statistically with record no of straight wins - against promising bunch of less experienced less accomplished players = 3-0 series win and rightly so. 3 very entertaining games though with moments for English fans to have enjoyed.

No Tour from Hell but a steep learning curve. Well done ABs for a sublime rugby lesson, well done England for having lived with them most of the time over 3 Tests: not many would have resisted even this well. This AB team has 50 + points/game written all over it.

Oh God,the learning curve line is being used.