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Mayweather vs Maidana 2

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Hammersmith harrier
TopHat24/7
Gerry SA
kingraf
Dipper Brown
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hazharrison
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Mayweather vs Maidana 2 Empty Mayweather vs Maidana 2

Post by hampo17 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:23 pm

Just watched some footage during which Floyd says this is happening in September followed by a big surprise in May.

Excited or dissapointed by the rematch?

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Post by AdamT Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:27 pm

Excited. Will then get to see if Floyd was really trying to please fans or if he really has lost a step. Personally I see Maidana doing ok first couple of rounds and then see Floyd taking over and winning most of the remaining rounds.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:28 pm

Don't want to see this again.

Mayweather is clever. How many fights left in his contract with Showtime? Fill 2 slots with a fighter way below his level clever.

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:33 pm

Neither excited (who gets excited by a Floyd fight?) or disappointed. I'm glad Maidana is getting another high-profile gig after manhandling two of boxing's most loathsome "characters".

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:34 pm

Disappointed.................

Touch of Moore - Durelle about the first..........

Mayweather knows what to expect this time..........

Don't really see a big clamor for this either...

However people will always pay to see the best around especially as he's in the twilight of his career...and rightly so..

A talent that comes around once in a generation..

Wish he'd picked someone harder though..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:35 pm

hazharrison wrote:Neither excited (who gets excited by a Floyd fight?) or disappointed. I'm glad Maidana is getting another high-profile gig after manhandling two of boxing's most loathsome "characters".

The people who pay big money on PPv probably get excited.....

Hagler - Hamsho never excited me..............

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:40 pm

Funny, isn't it? Maidana gives Floyd his toughest fight and closest brush with defeat for twelve years, and yet nobody really seems that excited about him getting another crack.

Floyd and the Money Team (aye, I hate typing that as much as the next man, believe me) will naturally use the smoke screen that, because of how good and close a fight Maidana gave Mayweather last time, people are intrigued about seeing it again. That's only a half truth, because I think what people are really intrigued about is more along the lines of, "If Maidana is tagging him like that and giving him a pretty close run thing, then what could somebody above Maidana's level, like a Pacquiao, a Lara, a Thurman etc, do to him?" The Maidana fight nudged at everyone's curiosity, but not quite in the way that Mayweather and his yes men will be claiming.

As for the fight itself, well Maidana made me look a bit daft (or even dafter) with how competitive he was last time, so I'm reluctant to totally write off his hopes, but I can only see another decision win for Floyd at this point.
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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:44 pm

Punters don't pay to see a "once in a lifetime talent". The majority pay hoping to see him cop a beating. Hence the fact he fights Latinos (or fighters with big followings).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:44 pm

Do you remember when 37 year old Floyd beat Maidana last time..The day after..

Haz wrote an article "This shows Mayweather isn't top 10"...........

How many Boxers in the past have been p4p number 1 at 37...............ZILCHO !!

Shows you that jealously protective rose tinters will never accept anything Mayweather does..

I'm disappointed he's fighting Maidana but If he beat Ward they'd be finding excuses to slag him..


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Post by Dipper Brown Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:45 pm

No interest from me, I'm afraid. I imagine we'll just see the same formula, Maidana rough him up early and Floyd go on to win. Probably by a bigger margin than in the first fight.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:50 pm

Punters do......As Mayweather has shown.

Stupid comment......

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:51 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Do you remember when 37 year old Floyd beat Maidana last time..The day after..

Haz wrote an article "This shows Mayweather isn't top 10"...........

How many Boxers in the past have been p4p number 1 at 37...............ZILCHO !!

Shows you that jealously protective rose tinters will never accept anything Mayweather does..

I'm disappointed he's fighting Maidana but If he beat Ward they'd be finding excuses to slag him..


How many were permitted to fight who they wanted when they wanted? ZILCHO!!

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Post by Dipper Brown Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:52 pm

I agree with Haz to an extent. A massive part of Mayweather's selling point is that big 0. A lot of people pay to see him lose it and see who will be the man to do it.

But it sells. Massively. And he knows how to sell himself. May not please the purists with his matchmaking but he's making stacks of cash and doesn't get hit in the face half as much as his peers.

I will say this, when and if the day comes that he does lose that 0, there'll be some mixed emotions. You don't know what you've got til it's gone.

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:53 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Punters do......As Mayweather has shown.

Stupid comment......

They don't tune in to watch him. They tune in hoping to see the opponent whup him. There's a reason he fights on Cinco De Mayo every year.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:55 pm

Watching unpopular fights lose has always been the big sell..........

Most people wanted Ali to lose...Eubank over here etc......

Haz you don't like him and it clouds your judgement..

Basing a 37 year old winning a fight as a reason to not have him as a Top 10 ATG.............Say's it all Mate..

Mayweather is the biggest draw around ...Hence he gets paid the most money....

Just come on...

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Post by Guest Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:57 pm

When Castillo ran him close, Floyd neutralised him in the rematch and it was a bit of a non-event. Ordinarily I'd say the same thing will happen again however...

The reason many felt the first fight was close is that they believe Floyd's legs have gone and, if that's the case, there's a possibility that he won't be able to keep out of trouble as readily as he would have done a couple of years ago. Mind you a couple of years ago, Maidana would have struggled to get anywhere near Floyd so a rematch would have been a moot point.

IF Floyd's legs have gone, he may be forced to stand his ground more than he's used to and more than he likes. IF Floyd's legs have gone, it may spur Maidana on to force the pace even more and that's the only reason this fight might pique the interest.

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:59 pm

The reason he isn't a top ten ATG (not just for me but for most fair-minded fans/experts) is because he avoided his greatest challenge. He doesn't have the opponents to rank that high.
 
He draws because he lines up Latino opponents whose fans buy the PPV (hoping to see Floyd lose).
 
I never said he wasn't smart but no-one pays to see Floyd himself -- his fights are usually boring (hence the reason he kicks up such a stink in order to "promote" himself).
 
He's a draw like Kim Kardashian's a draw.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:01 pm

To be honest.............Father time comes to us all..............People forget Manny, JMM and Floyd have no right to be dominating the sport at their age...........It's unheard of...

Sad thing is If Maidana does spring an upset......Some posters on here will say he beat a prime Floyd and it shows he was overrated......

No names mentioned................

I mean one guy on here actually has Hagler higher on a list...The guy that drew with Vito and needed a last round rally to beat a lightweight..

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:06 pm

I not only rate Hagler above him I also see no valid reason why Pacquiao shouldn't be too. They have bigger wins against better opposition.

I think we all know why the majority of fighters are able to fight on into middle age (and it's not down to extra star jumps and boiled greens).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:12 pm

Fair enough....

Are you going to Fury-Chisora ....Haz ?

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:16 pm

Na. I considered it to see Sykes vs Walsh and Mathews vs Flanagan mainly but they've fallen through and so it didn't seem worth it.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:20 pm

Don't blame you...........

Warren has misjudged the mood on this potboiler.........Little publicity and little interest..

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Post by AdamT Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:24 pm

Noway is Manny ahead of Floyd at the minute. Maybe he has slightly better resume of wins at lower weights but the knockout loses have to stand against him as well.You can argue that Hagler is above him (I personally believe Floyd is higher) but no chance is Manny ahead.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:38 pm

JMM x 3 and Bradley has put Manny behind Floyd probably forever....

Haz is the only one on here who has Manny ahead...........But then again he probably has Schmelling above him..

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Post by kingraf Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:40 pm

Your victories are tempered by your defeats, not the other way round, otherwise Frazier wouldn't knock anyone else not named Ali out in two.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:41 pm

Mayweather hasn't had a defeat..

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Post by kingraf Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:41 pm

Was talking about Manny.
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Post by kingraf Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:43 pm

I also like how you type JMM X3, but discount Castillo I
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:44 pm

I know........

But when JMM leaves you face down and outboxes you in maybe all your fights.......At least 3 of them and you're 1-1 with Tim.......

Hard to make a case for a guy being above the unbeaten Mayweather..........Who gave JMM a masterclass....

Has to be said that JMM doesn't think Manny's in the same class............and I believe him..

Castillo x 1......... 4-1 = 3........


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Post by kingraf Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:46 pm

You're a City fan, aren't you Truss?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:48 pm

Yes..

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Post by AdamT Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:51 pm

kingraf wrote:I also like how you type JMM X3, but discount Castillo I

I agree with this Floyd has 1 close loss!

Manny did beat Bradley first time so wont hold that against him.

Though Marquez beat him 4 times imo and he lost against Morales. He also lost twice early in his career. 7 losses to Floyds 1. Plus a heavy knockout loss recently.

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Post by kingraf Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:52 pm

Do you think City rank higher than United given the fact that they are unbeaten in European finals, while United have lost a few, despite United having way more European titles?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:54 pm

Kingy it's not the same argument...........

Mayweather beat Hatton first...........Mosley first..........Alvarez.............Oscar................Toyed with JMM...........

and he hasn't lost............Adam T hit the nail on the head..


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Post by Gerry SA Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:58 pm

Good to see Maidana get another big fight.

Hope he gets a good payday, £3-4m purse would setup his retirement fund.

Good hard working pro.

Aside from PacMan, the only other big money maker for Mayweather is a Canelo rematch(if Canelo beats Lara and wins the middleweight title against Cotto). But I doubt Oscar will deal with Schaefer so it's unlikely.

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:06 pm

AdamT wrote:Noway is Manny ahead of Floyd at the minute. Maybe he has slightly better resume of wins at lower weights but the knockout loses have to stand against him as well.You can argue that Hagler is above him (I personally believe Floyd is higher) but no chance is Manny ahead.

That's why he's ahead. He has wins over fellow greats in Morales, Barrera and Marquez (two times apiece). You fight that sort of opponent over and over and you'll pick up a loss or two. He fought all the guys Mayweather fought and beat them more conclusively and he's still going, still beating the likes of Bradley.






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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:10 pm

Junior Jones thumped Barrera twice.......Before Manny

Is he ahead too..

You're full of s**t you really are....................Hagler beat Duran a lightweight and Hearns a super welter his only greats...Only Hearns was a great win and he'd never fought at the weight before ........Yet you have him above Mayweather...

Mayweather beat 5 current p4pers at the time.....JMM, Oscar, Hatton being three...

Your arguments don't stack up..............

Mayweather has beaten more greats than hagler...Yet you use that argument to put Manny higher..


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Post by kingraf Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:13 pm

Of course it's not the same thing, but the reality is some fans do rate wins and championships above defeats. Roger Federer couldn't beat Nadal consistently, but he has more majors than anyone else, therefore he is widely regarded as best ever. Personally I don't really care - Floyd is probably higher, but it's hardly open and shut - going 2-1(1), 2-1 and 2-0 against Marquez, Morales and Barrera is viewed in some circles as a greater achievement than the gauntlet that was Ortiz, Guerrero and Maidana
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Post by Gerry SA Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:15 pm

hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:Noway is Manny ahead of Floyd at the minute. Maybe he has slightly better resume of wins at lower weights but the knockout loses have to stand against him as well.You can argue that Hagler is above him (I personally believe Floyd is higher) but no chance is Manny ahead.

That's why he's ahead. He has wins over fellow greats in Morales, Barrera and Marquez (two times apiece). You fight that sort of opponent over and over and you'll pick up a loss or two. He fought all the guys Mayweather fought and beat them more conclusively and he's still going, still beating the likes of Bradley.





I love watching PacMan fight, and whatever his record states, he's never beaten Juan Manuel Marquez.

Just as Timothy Bradley has never beaten PacMan

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:19 pm

For some reason defeats don't count for Manny according to Haz.......Yet he writes an article the day after Maidana...

"May vs Maidana shows Floyd can't be top 10"....

I mean the guy isn't rational when it comes to Floyd..

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Post by AdamT Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:24 pm

hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:Noway is Manny ahead of Floyd at the minute. Maybe he has slightly better resume of wins at lower weights but the knockout loses have to stand against him as well.You can argue that Hagler is above him (I personally believe Floyd is higher) but no chance is Manny ahead.

That's why he's ahead. He has wins over fellow greats in Morales, Barrera and Marquez (two times apiece). You fight that sort of opponent over and over and you'll pick up a loss or two. He fought all the guys Mayweather fought and beat them more conclusively and he's still going, still beating the likes of Bradley.

He lost to the same guy 4 times in my eyes, or at least 3 if you want to gift him 1 win over Jmm. He has also been flattened a few times. Noway does he rank higher than Mayweather, imo of course.




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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:32 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Junior Jones thumped Barrera twice.......Before Manny

Is he ahead too..

You're full of s**t you really are....................Hagler beat Duran a lightweight and Hearns a super welter his only greats...Only Hearns was a great win and he'd never fought at the weight before ........Yet you have him above Mayweather...

Mayweather beat 5 current p4pers at the time.....JMM, Oscar, Hatton being three...

Your arguments don't stack up..............

Mayweather has beaten more greats than hagler...Yet you use that argument to put Manny higher..

Full of sh** for having an opinion?

Hagler beat a pair of great fighters in great form. The knock against both wins is that Duran and Hearns were above their best weights (however, both went on to have sucess at 160). He also put in one of the great championship reigns of all time and took on all comers one after another. He never ducked anyone.

Mayweather hasn't beaten a great fighter in great form. Castillo and Corrales were fine fighters but weren't in the same league as Duran and Hearns.

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Post by AdamT Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:36 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Junior Jones thumped Barrera twice.......Before Manny

Is he ahead too..

You're full of s**t you really are....................Hagler beat Duran a lightweight and Hearns a super welter his only greats...Only Hearns was a great win and he'd never fought at the weight before ........Yet you have him above Mayweather...

Mayweather beat 5 current p4pers at the time.....JMM, Oscar, Hatton being three...

Your arguments don't stack up..............

Mayweather has beaten more greats than hagler...Yet you use that argument to put Manny higher..

Full of sh** for having an opinion?

Hagler beat a pair of great fighters in great form. The knock against both wins is that Duran and Hearns were above their best weights (however, both went on to have sucess at 160). He also put in one of the great championship reigns of all time and took on all comers one after another. He never ducked anyone.

Mayweather hasn't beaten a great fighter in great form. Castillo and Corrales were fine fighters but weren't in the same league as Duran and Hearns.

Good point but Duran was long past his best when Hagler beat him (barley) and Duran was much smaller naturally. If you count Duran for Hagler then you would also have to count Mosley for Floyd. Or even Jmm.

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:37 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:For some reason defeats don't count for Manny according to Haz.......Yet he writes an article the day after Maidana...

"May vs Maidana shows Floyd can't be top 10"....

I mean the guy isn't rational when it comes to Floyd..

Floyd was in against a long shot underdog who'd been beaten handily by Devon Alexander. He'd just beaten Alvarez in a career-high performance according to some (and so is hardly over the hill). That fight proved to me (and a few others) that Floyd couldn't have handled the heat someone like Duran would have put on him.

Pacquiao lost a close decision to Morales (after suffering a horrendous cut). He rebounded to flatten Morales twice (a Morales who was good enough to come back years later and push Maidana to the wire).

The kayo loss to Marquez is shrouded in controversy.

All great fighters lose if they test themselves. They should be measured on what they achieved.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:38 pm

Borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrinnnggggggggggggggggggggg.........!!!!!!!

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Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:40 pm

AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Junior Jones thumped Barrera twice.......Before Manny

Is he ahead too..

You're full of s**t you really are....................Hagler beat Duran a lightweight and Hearns a super welter his only greats...Only Hearns was a great win and he'd never fought at the weight before ........Yet you have him above Mayweather...

Mayweather beat 5 current p4pers at the time.....JMM, Oscar, Hatton being three...

Your arguments don't stack up..............

Mayweather has beaten more greats than hagler...Yet you use that argument to put Manny higher..

Full of sh** for having an opinion?

Hagler beat a pair of great fighters in great form. The knock against both wins is that Duran and Hearns were above their best weights (however, both went on to have sucess at 160). He also put in one of the great championship reigns of all time and took on all comers one after another. He never ducked anyone.

Mayweather hasn't beaten a great fighter in great form. Castillo and Corrales were fine fighters but weren't in the same league as Duran and Hearns.

Good point but Duran was long past his best when Hagler beat him (barley) and Duran was much smaller naturally. If you count Duran for Hagler then you would also have to count Mosley for Floyd. Or even Jmm.

Duran was in rude form the night he faced Hagler -- a masterful performance. Plainly different scenario to facing a shot Shane Mosley.

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Mayweather vs Maidana 2 Empty Re: Mayweather vs Maidana 2

Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:JMM x 3 and Bradley has put Manny behind Floyd probably forever....


Which 3 are those?

As you've made it very clear in the recent past that you ignore the reality of the fight and credit the fighter with the result awarded by the judges. In which case Manny is 3-1 against JMM.

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Mayweather vs Maidana 2 Empty Re: Mayweather vs Maidana 2

Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:50 pm

There's no real argument to have Hagler or Pacquiao above him but that said this is a crud rematch especially when far better fights are available. The Lara fight is complicated because he needs to get by Alvarez first and if he does then he's the most worthy opponent out there, if he loses then anyone outside of Pacquiao, Thurman or Bradley is a joke.

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Mayweather vs Maidana 2 Empty Re: Mayweather vs Maidana 2

Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:53 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There's no real argument to have Hagler or Pacquiao above him but that said this is a crud rematch especially when far better fights are available. The Lara fight is complicated because he needs to get by Alvarez first and if he does then he's the most worthy opponent out there, if he loses then anyone outside of Pacquiao, Thurman or Bradley is a joke.

Yet many sane-minded and rational folk do. Go figure.

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Mayweather vs Maidana 2 Empty Re: Mayweather vs Maidana 2

Post by hazharrison Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:54 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:JMM x 3 and Bradley has put Manny behind Floyd probably forever....


Which 3 are those?

As you've made it very clear in the recent past that you ignore the reality of the fight and credit the fighter with the result awarded by the judges. In which case Manny is 3-1 against JMM.

2-1-1

PEDANT OF THE DAY AWARD TO ME!!!

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