Canelo vs Lara

A little surprised there's no thread on it, as I think this is a pretty huge fight. Weigh ins yesterday, both men tipped the scales at 155, but Alvarez has admitted that he's going to blow up like a balloon for this one. How do you see it going? My initial feel was Lara UD12, but I now feel Alvarez UD12, but close enough to set up a bigger rematch in November

Not sure if the fight itself is massive but the ramifications could and should well be. I think if Canelo wins he's nailed on for a shot at Cotto and should Lara win he could see his fanbase exlplode.

Should be a good fight, can make a case for either way. I think with all the support cheering everything Canelo puts out, he might shade a decision.

Tough one to call in terms of who I think will 'win'... Might depend on which Lara turns up. He'll have to pull up trees to get a decision though.

I'm expecting Lara to expose Canelo's static footwork.

This could come down to the tempo of the fight. If Lara can make Alverez work hard in the first half of the fight Canelo's questioned stamina may become a major factor.

Looks almost certain to go the distance. I initially felt Lara would win and I'm sticking with that. Canelo has more experience and it will be interesting to see if he can make that count.

I've been looking forward to this one for a while, and on paper it looks like Lara should be a favourite. Although Angulo gave him trouble, he had to walk through Lara's offense to do it and paid the price of a broken face, and their different performances against Trout were chalk and cheese.

However Canelo has a lot of confidence, and I get the feeling he'll be greater than he should be, when all is said and done. Add in the possibility of judging bias and Canelo's size advantage and it starts to look even again.

Lara's no Mayweather in the skill and nous department, but he is bigger, fresher and hits a lot harder.

Also, a backfoot counter punching southpaw clearly inferior to Lara gave Canelo all sorts of issues, so I'm going for a Lara decision.

Interesting fight and I guess the lack of buzz is a bit surprising

Don't think it'll be a classic, more of a chess match with the stronger moments coming from Canelo while the cleaner shots landed by lara

Think it'll be very very tight, and I can't see lara stopping Canelo so it'll probably go to the judges and you'd think that if it's close Canelo will get the nod. He has the fans and is the cash cow so I can see him nicking it by slightly controversial decision

If Lara is too win i dont think he can win by the descision as the judges will favour canelo

We're such cynics!!!

I know its suprising as boxing is such a fair sport.....

I think Canelo stops Lara in 9. Lara is a slick counter punching lefty, with plenty of power, but i don't rate his footwork. Granted Canelo's isn't great either, but his job in this fight is to walk forward, I think he has that trick down. 
Canelo, to look silly, take punishment, walk Lara down and stop him violently.

I'm surprised Lara winning by stoppage is such a wide bet. He's not aggressive and doesn't always sit down on his punches, but when he does he's pretty spiteful. I thought Trout's senses were far more scrambled from Lara's left than from Canelo's right, takes something heavy to make Angulo quit. I would bring up the 1 round Lo of Hearns but...wrong Hearns.

If Alvarez gets picked off coming forwards I wouldn't be surprised to see him go down.

I'm buzzing for the fight. Im so tired though so may jump on COD to kick some life back into me when the missus goes bed in a min......any idea of ring walk times?

Well very let down last night. Gifted decision for Alvarez which many predicted would be the case (lose the fight buy actually win).

His post figng conference was pathetic as well, constantly mocking Lara for running away and not fighting (even though Lara threw around the same punches and connected more!!)....

There will be no rematch, that's a guarantee...shame really.

I really don't know what to think about Alvarez, on one hand, he represents many good things about boxing, he's youthfulness, willingness to take a fight, refusal to fight for titles in a division he knows has an undisputed champion... But, on the other hand, his last three fights which went all the way have had one card which beggars belief.
Trout 118-109
May 114-114
Lara 117-111

A cynic would say he takes big fights because he knows whatever happens, he'll be there or thereabouts.

Espn saying Canelo is lining up James Kirkland in November and Cotto for next summer

Well we all did say it couldnt go to points

mobilemaster8 wrote:Well very let down last night. Gifted decision for Alvarez which many predicted would be the case (lose the fight buy actually win).

His post figng conference was pathetic as well, constantly mocking Lara for running away and not fighting (even though Lara threw around the same punches and connected more!!)....

There will be no rematch, that's a guarantee...shame really.

A close fight that is not only difficult to score, but is largely down to personal perception and what a person favours, is hardly a gift. Granted one of the scorecards was a little too wide, which does make you question what is happening behind the scenes, however it is not as if Canelo was beat handily and I fail to see how questionable scorecards are Canelos fault.

Just because you don't agree with the decision doesn't make it the wrong one or a robbery (a word that you like to use far to often).

Canelo, once again, failed to impress. For a 23-year-old fighter, his punch output is pathetic. That's three fights against the top brass at 154 and he's failed to beat any of them convincingly. Lara, too, was a disappointment. I had him edging it 116-114 but neither really deserved to win a rather dull encounter.

Cotto-Canelo looks a far more even bout after last night. Golovkin, though, would kill both of them (Canelo and Lara).

I've not once mentioned a robbery above Trott to be fair.

Canelo did not win 117-111. I'm sorry but that just never happened last night.

That resembles a one sided victory handily for Canelo, and that never happened.

It was more of a win for Lara based on landing more shots and making canelo look wild.

I stick by my 116-112 card. Maybe even 115-113 if you really pushed it.

But to reverse it all the way round to a complete domination job from Alvarez is a home cooked score card.

As was the 114-114 with Floyd.

As was the Angulo stoppage.

As was the Trout score.

Its getting ridiculous and rightly pointed our above that he only takes these fights because he will win even if his is knocked out cold in 1.

hazharrison wrote:Canelo, once again, failed to impress. For a 23-year-old fighter, his punch output is pathetic. That's three fights against the top brass at 154 and he's failed to beat any of them convincingly. Lara, too, was a disappointment. I had him edging it 116-114 but neither really deserved to win a rather dull encounter.

Cotto-Canelo looks a far more even bout after last night. Golovkin, though, would kill both of them (Canelo and Lara).

I'm looking forward to when GGG steps up to world class level.

I actually agree Strongy.

Geale is the right direction but we need to see more names in with him.

Hard when your being avoided though.

And to be fair, I'm not surprised he is avoided.

mobilemaster8 wrote:I've not once mentioned a robbery above Trott to be fair.

Canelo did not win 117-111. I'm sorry but that just never happened last night.

That resembles a one sided victory handily for Canelo, and that never happened.

It was more of a win for Lara based on landing more shots and making canelo look wild.

I stick by my 116-112 card. Maybe even 115-113 if you really pushed it.

But to reverse it all the way round to a complete domination job from Alvarez is a home cooked score card.

As was the 114-114 with Floyd.

As was the Angulo stoppage.

As was the Trout score.

Its getting ridiculous and rightly pointed our above that he only takes these fights because he will win even if his is knocked out cold in 1.

Yes you did, you said that he was gifted the decision, which implies robbery.

I'd agree with the scorecards from the one judge being a bit hard to justify, but that is not to say he didn't deserve the victory. I wouldn't have issue with Lara taking it either. It's the same with the Trout fight.

Your last sentence is buffoonery at its finest.

Well you have just made no sense.

I never said the word robbery. Implying a robbery is different to actually calling it one.

If you can just paste my quote from above with the word Robbery in it (as you previously Stated) and ill agree.

Anyway, moving on, the trout fight got scored 118-109 to Canelo. That was a close fight by the way. A hell of a lot closer than last night to say the very least.

So how do we get a 114-114 card with Floyd, 118-109 with trout and a 117-111 with Lara?!

Sorry, but I just don't buy into it, you can as much as you like to be honest, but I had Lara winning handily. Even if it was close, the 117-111 card "implies" that it wasn't. Which is frankly a joke.

Neither fighter looked particularly great. Alvarez was Alvarez. What we have come to expect from him. A good fighter but really nothing special. Was a little more disappointed with Lara who I thought could have raised it a notch but didn't.

Lara won for me I had it 116 - 113, it is incredulous the scorecard 117-111 I have to say... Lara almost undisputedly took 2 out of the first 3 rounds if not all of them, so I have to ask that particular judge, did you actually only give Lara 1 round after round 3... Seriously... Seriously... What fight were you watching? It's just a shame that Mr Martinez missed a very intriguing affair... As I quite enjoyed the fight, or mabye he did watch the fight and just decided to write down his scorecard before the fight started as I simply cannot see how he has come to the conclusion of that fight being a wide points win for Canelo... The other two scorecards I can buy, a round swing is fair enough I guess, but saying that the fight was as one sided as Mayweather Vs. Guerrero? Hmmm, yeah ok... Missed a good fight did Mr. Martinez.

What is so hard to understand? You have suggested robbery on this and the other thread numerous times...

As I have said I don't agree with the scorecard, but that doesn't mean he wasn't deserving of the win.

What is Boxing coming to when this Comatose, useless club fighter keeps beating top opponents...

What next ?? Mayweather getting some credit for beating him ??..

Life is full of surprises..

A close fight which I had Lara winning, however the decision was clearly not a gift. Alvarez landed fewer punches, but landed far more power shots. He was also the aggressor, not something I typically give fighters much credit for (hence my scoring the fight for Lara), however, I accept that many judges, especially Vegas judges, favour aggressive fighters and score close rounds accordingly.

Lara looked the better boxer; the rounds he won, he won clearly, and the rounds he 'lost' were far closer. But ultimately he didn't land enough punches or show enough aggression to win enough rounds convincingly.

Agree with the general consensus on the Martinez scorecard. It's difficult to see a card like that and not conclude that it is in some way dishonest.

Too many tight rounds for this to be called a robbery. I had Lara winning by one, but could easily see a big swing either way. Lara needs to try harder to open up. He could've had the better of Canelo with a little more effort towards offense. I respect Canelo for taking hard fights, and I'm sure GBP will be able to milk the perception of his 'superstar' status for a good while to come. He's a very decent boxer no doubt, but only slightly above average for a world champion. I think they'll have him vs Kirkland next and then a huge fight vs Cotto. For me, Cotto beats him, even at this weight/career stage. That said, how much longer can he make 154? A MW move has to be on the cards soon.

Body shots score, right? Alvarez has to be given credit for his work to Lara's body and, for me, that made it a very close fight. As has already been said, this one came down entirely to personal interpretation. At times Lara looked silky but on other occasions he looked like he was running away. 117-111 is far too wide and raises questions but that's why you have three judges. I've no problem with Canelo's W.

I tend go more along the lines of "GoldenBoy get one judge of loose morals, so that worst case scenario, Canelo loses a razor-thin SD, paving the way for a profitable rematch", I dont doubt for a second that the fix is in*

*I don't have any qualms with an Alvarez win, but that's three straight fights now where a judge in his fight seems to have been watching a different fight altogether.

I told you that it would depend on whether or not Lara turned up. He's like Howard Eastman in that if he was to go through his full range of shots, you'd see one helluva boxer but he just seems content to go at his own pace and just infuriates the **** out of folk.

One the back of making Alvarez look silly, you'd think he'd get another crack at a top name but he simply doesn't draw the crowds

If Lara continued to punch then he would have won simple as that but whether it was his tendency, Canelos pressure or the body work but he just didn't work enough to win most of the rounds in the second half of the fight

Can't cry robbery like Williams and he's deluded if he thinks he walked this fight

Also he gave such a poor account of himself he'll probably never get a rematch and I doubt showtime will give him a big purse from now on! He got given this brilliant opportunity and bottled it and played it safe.He should look at rigo, even if you win if you don't impress you don't get money and big opponents

Hats off to Canelo, despite lara having an awful style for him he went ahead and got the victory against a superior bixer by using power and aggression. He's never going to be Maywather good but he seeks the hardest fights and tries to put on a show, have to commend hin for that

Like the adjustment he made too. Like vs Floyd he tried to box with the boxer and it didn't work, but this time he put his guard up, tucked in those elbows and chin and used his power and body attack, something he should have done earlier against Floyd

He'll probably fight Kirkland in a war, which is still a very dangerous fight for Canelo, and then Cotto in may. Still think he beats cotto. Cotto isn't as slick as lara and if things go wrong for canelo he can do the same thing, tuck up and blast to the body. Can't see cotto standing up to that body attack for too many rounds

Canelo vs GGG would be a tear up.

Still think Lara is the boss at LMW though.

Despite having lost?

Once again Saul Alvarez profits from dodgy judges.

Alvarez is lucky he's sleeping with Oscar, as he's a very average fighter.

Alvarez's record should read 43-3-1. He didn't beat Trout or Lara. And got humilated by Mayweather...whatever CJ Ross' scorecard said.

Alvarez is what's wrong with boxing. I hope he faces a boxer and get KTFO. Overrated bum.

What a pathetic post Gerry, I have no issue with people thinking he lost to either Trout or Lara but neither fight had a clear winner although I can't make a case for Trout winning to be honest.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:What a pathetic post Gerry, I have no issue with people thinking he lost to either Trout or Lara but neither fight had a clear winner although I can't make a case for Trout winning to be honest.

Alvarez is a cash cow so gets favourable decisions. It's not fair on the paying public.

I might be OTT, but Alvarez is one Mexican I can't stand...

When he beats Cotto, and he will, Oscar will ram down everyone throats 'Alvarez is a two division linear champion aged 24'...

Oscar will claim Alvarez is better than Julio Cesar Chavez Snr. Mark my words.

I had the fight a draw - going from memory here, so might not be right on the money, but I think I had Lara winning rounds 1, 3, 7, 9, 10 and 11, with Alvarez taking 2, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 12. A couple of close rounds thrown in, so can see why there's a mix of opinion on who deserved the verdict, but while the 117-111 card was awful Alvarez winning a split decision in its own right was no disgrace - just wish it hadn't come with that daft tally from one judge, although sadly an inexplicable card seems obligatory when it comes to an Alvarez fight right now.

Lara should be kicking himself. And before it gets mentioned, no - the location of the fight and these hoary old 'you've got to be aggressive in Vegas' or 'against the name fighter / PPV champ you've got to do more and make it clear' mean nowt to me. Nowhere in the scoring rules does it say that the location of a fight, or which fighter is the big name or belt holder (if applicable) should come in to the equation when you score, and if you're using those theories when you judge then basically you're not doing it right. Lara can't put the whole loss down to it being in Vegas or being against a more popular fighter, and trying to act as if that's the only thing that cost him is just papering over the cracks in his own performance - and there were some.

I actually think he got a slightly sub-par version of Alvarez, too. I think it's time for Canelo to make a proper move up to 160 now as he seemed slower than usual to me on saturday and nowhere near as dynamic in his combination punching. It was all set up for Lara to take it but he made some cardinal errors (not fighting the last round, starting earlier rounds well before going to sleep, conceding the centre of the ring when he really didn't need to etc). When he let his shots go a bit more and kept it at mid range he looked the part but he was pretty erratic with it.

Disappointed as I'd have been really intrigued by Lara-Mayweather. Was unlikely to happen regardless of what happened here, but is about as likely as Forest winning another European Cup now.

Not a great performance by Alvarez, who I still don't think is from the top plate, but an obdurate and determined one. I think he had the right idea in trying to slow Lara down with the body shots, where he had a lot of success, but time for the full 160 limit now, methinks.

A great chance for Lara which he didn't quite grasp, really. Can see a frustrating eighteen months or so ahead for him now.

hazharrison wrote:Canelo, once again, failed to impress. For a 23-year-old fighter, his punch output is pathetic. That's three fights against the top brass at 154 and he's failed to beat any of them convincingly. Lara, too, was a disappointment. I had him edging it 116-114 but neither really deserved to win a rather dull encounter.

Cotto-Canelo looks a far more even bout after last night. Golovkin, though, would kill both of them (Canelo and Lara).

All about winning....

Lara seems to be a typical cuban boxer, for whatever reason he switches off for half a fight time and time again. After the Williams robbery you'd think something would click and that he'd maintain a decent work rate for a whole fight.

Alvarez isn't anything special but like Froch has a single mindedness that drags him through fights he should really lose.

The evaluation of punching in he fight came down to Lara's jab vs Canelo's body work. 
After that scoring the fight depended on whether you rate Lara's running as ring generalship, or Canelo's chasing as effective aggression. 

All in all it made it a hard fight to score, a horrible one to watch, but certainly no robbery.

When one is running away/being chased around and the other is largely ineffectively following it really is hard to call a 'winner'.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Canelo, once again, failed to impress. For a 23-year-old fighter, his punch output is pathetic. That's three fights against the top brass at 154 and he's failed to beat any of them convincingly. Lara, too, was a disappointment. I had him edging it 116-114 but neither really deserved to win a rather dull encounter.

Cotto-Canelo looks a far more even bout after last night. Golovkin, though, would kill both of them (Canelo and Lara).

All about winning....

Not if you want to be great.

You're more likely to be regarded as great if you win at all costs than looking a million dollars but losing.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're more likely to be regarded as great if you win at all costs than looking a million dollars but losing.

Sven Ottke. Azumah Nelson.

You're less likely to be regarded as great by being awarded a series of inconclusive decision victories.

The thing is Haz, Ottke was the beneficiary of many absurd judging decisions which Alvarez has not been, he's been in two tight fights but at the end deservedly won them.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The thing is Haz, Ottke was the beneficiary of many absurd judging decisions which Alvarez has not been, he's been in two tight fights but at the end deservedly won them.

Deservedly? He didn't separate himself from Trout and Lara. Two toss-up decisions that could have gone one of three ways. Alvarez has been the beneficiary of some absurd judging also. 114-114 against Floyd? 117-111 against Lara? 118-109 against Trout?

Nice to have one in the bank each time you fight.

Personally can't make a case for Trout winning their fight, think he more than deserved that win while Lara could have gone either way, not sure why Alvarez gets so much flak for it.

89 press scores: 34-30-25 to Canelo with an average score of 114-114.

Neither deserved to win as they were both woeful.

Alvarez gets blowback because he's been hyped as the reincarnation of Salvador Sanchez yet fights like Ricky Hatton encased in carbonite.