Ulster 2014/2015, Part 2

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Part 1; https://www.606v2.com/t53882p950-ulster-2014-2015

We've been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Our pre-season concludes when we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. It'll be a big relief to see the action at Ravenhill moving from the headlines to the pitch

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Hookers
Rory Best, Rob Herring (Jonny Murphy, John Andrew*)
Props
Callum Black, Ruaidhrí Murphy, Andrew Warwick, Declan Fitzpatrick, Wiehahn Herbst, Dave Ryan, Ricky Lutton, Bronson Ross, Kyle McCall(?)
Locks
Iain Henderson, Dan Tuohy, Franco van der Merwe, Lewis Stevenson, Neil McComb
Backrow
Robbie Diack, Conor Joyce, Chris Henry, Mike McComish, Sean Reidy, Charlie Butterworth, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson (Clive Ross**)
Scrum-half
Ruan Pienaar, Paul Marshall, Michael Heaney
Outhalf
Paddy Jackson, Ian Humphreys
Centres
Luke Marshall, Stuart Olding, Darren Cave, Stuart McCloskey
Wings
Michael Allen, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy
Fullback
Louis Ludik, Ricky Andrew, Jared Payne, Peter Nelson

*Academy hookers training with first team squad
**Clive Ross, cousin of Mike, is on trial

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

ECC; Leicester Tigers (A)
ECC; RC Toulon (H)

Nelson may well not make it but he has a potential which neither Allen or Andrew match.
I would put Scholes above him though and by some margin.
Allen will only ever be a solid squad player and Andrew maybe not even that

Can't argue with any of that in fairness Geoff.

One of the two guys on UAFC who has contacts says Henderson not as far advanced as hoped

Rumours doing the round Sean Dougal could be moving to Ulster at the end of his existing contract - anyone know when that is ?

With respect to Nelson it needs to be remembered he is 2 years younger than Allen and 3 years younger than Andrew.

Dougal is out of contract this season I think.

That gives some credence to the rumour - would be a useful addition

Would be a great signing for us. When you're only one or two injuries from McComish being considered any Irish back row will do!

I think there are a decent few Leinster young ones out of contract as well but stand to be corrected on that one

Fortunately McCormish wont be with us next year now his protector (Anscombe) has gone

Chickens will really have come how to roost if Wilson is ruled out of the Leinster game. Hard to get a result in Dublin with a back row of Reidy, Ross and Diack with McComish on the bench

I'd play Tuohy at 6

I would too. I'd rather have McComb on the bench than McComish!

I wouldn't have McComb near the bench wither

der Merwe, O'Connor
Tuohy, Diack, Ross

Bench: Stevenson, Reidy

We should play Raaymakers, Tuohy has been rubbish at 6 every time he's played there.

So 2015 is already shaping to be an annus horribilis - a slide into further onfield frustrations, European obscurity, dressing room discontent followed by exodus and financial hardship... with Friday's game kicking off the race to the bottom between Ulster and Leinster.  

Oh David and Johann why did you forsake us so?

Notch wrote:We should play Raaymakers, Tuohy has been rubbish at 6 every time he's played there.

Raaymakers has shown nothing to suggest he is up to playing in the backrow - bit of a damp squib.
At best an ok Lock

1. Jack McGrath
2, Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Jack Conan
7. Shane Jennings
8. Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN
9. Isaac Boss
10. Ian Madigan
11. Dave Kearney
12. Gordon D'Arcy
13. Luke Fitzgerald
14. Fergus McFadden
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Sean Cronin
17. Michael Bent
18. Tadhg Furlong
19. Kane Douglas
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Luke McGrath
22. Jimmy Gopperth
23. Ben Te'o

Referee: Marius Mitrea (FIR, 35th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Eddie Hogan-O'Connell, Mark Connolly (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Eugene Ryan (IRFU)
TMO: Jude Quinn (IRFU)

Strong Leinster team.

Ulster XV & Replacements to play Leinster, Guinness PRO12, RDS, Saturday 3rd January, kick off 14:40 (15-9): P Nelson; T Bowe, D Cave, S Olding, C Gilroy, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Best (Capt), W Herbst, D Tuohy, F vd Merwe, R Diack, C Ross, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, B Ross, A O’Connor, S Reidy, P Marshall, I Humphreys, L Marshall.

Louis Ludik must have the bug

Fitzpatrick is also missing. I can't say I'm disappointed with the omission of Fitzpatrick, but missing Ludik is a blow.

Ross deserves to be in front of Fitzpatrick - he has been a pleasant surprise this season.
As far as I am aware Ludik is fine - he has played just about every game and needs the rest
First start at 15 for Nelson since 12th April 2013 (he was 20 then) - it is his best position

Something not right about Payne continued absence - cant put my finger it but all logic says he should be back by now.
I'll throw in a curve ball as well - Cave would not have signed a 3 year contract without some reassurance about his place in the squad.

Ulster are playing so far below.their potential it's ridiculous. It's time to get a coaching ticket that makes the most out of each player... Not the opposite

Bit of humble pie for me after Nelsons performance. Very solid and was targeted. Did rightly.

Again I mention that Doak has made the backs less than the sum of their parts for years and now he is let loose to do it to the whole team. Whoever made the appointment should be under scrutiny too

Our lack of a backrow is becoming a joke.
I actually think Ross was the best

Both Diack and Wilson disappeared in the second half, as did der Merw
Forwards were out on their feet in the last 15 mins
Too many penalties - Black the pick of the forwards


A 9 with a dodgy knee taking penalties when we had another goalkicker on the pitch - poor coaching.
Cave and Nelson performances confirmed the signing of Ludik instead of a backrower was a decision made by idiots.
That is not being wise after the event many of us said it at the time.

Toml - maybe the coaches aren't up to it, but I don't think this team has that much potential to start with. Only Best and Pienaar are test class in the shirts from 1 to 10. That's only two players (at least one carrying a knock) out of 10 starters and 7 on the bench who are good enough to be seriously competitive against the top teams.

Leinster are missing SOB, Jennings, McLaughlin, Ruddock and Dom Ryan, yet can call up the impressive Conan, and Van der Flier (and presumably still have the promising Leavy in reserve). Ulster are missing Henry and the fading Williams. Ross and Reidy look to be decent squad players and cannot be blamed for their lack of experience, yet they were up against even less experienced opponents. Diack and Wilson should have dominated the breakdown but were both slow, underpowered and were totally exposed as being not good enough. Ulster were also outplayed at lock by better more clever opponents, and it was only in the front row where Ulster had a semblance of parity in the pack.

So the potential of this team is probably on a par with Connacht and Scarlets and as such will be scrapping for a top six place in the League. Ulster have some great outside backs but until the players in the 1 to 10 shirts (who dictate the outcome of matches) start performing consistently at levels they hitherto haven't shown, I doubt having Schmidt himself as coach would make any difference.

The Great Aukster wrote:Toml - maybe the coaches aren't up to it, but I don't think this team has that much potential to start with. Only Best and Pienaar are test class in the shirts from 1 to 10.

Cant agree with that - I'd add Herbst and Tuohy

Herbst - maybe, he'd certainly be in contention for a cap if he were IQ, but he'd still be inexperienced at that level so until he's tested... For all Ulster's scrum success this season - it has rarely translated into points and that aside Wiehan is fairly slow around the park and hasn't great hands.

Tuohy - has been capped so by definition is Test class - now Foley has emerged he may struggle to make an Ireland 23. Yet he rarely has dominant MOTM contention performances, and still has 'eejit mode' in his programming. VdM also has a Test cap and is a solid but unspectacular performer who plays much smarter than Dan but I'm not sure I'd call him Test class either.

I see your point Aukster but certainly in the first half we had plenty of go forward and front foot ball provided. We didn't lose a scrum or lineout all game. There is zero invention or creativity in our back play.

Second half when leinster upped the ante I would agree we looked lethargic and poor. Your point about the backrow is well made though especially when illustrating leinsters depth. Van der Flier is out of contract I think this year. Could we do worse than sign someone like him? A big part of the problem seems to be that guys like Dow and Taggart aren't even getting Ravens gametime.

Im not sure if they aren't impressing but persisting with guys like McComish and Raaymakers in Ravens selection when they are getting hockeyed is another sign of desperately poor management.

Happy Hogmanay to all hand-wringing Ulstermen on these boards.

What is the Union's position on signing injury cover?
I'm just really surprised that they didn't get a quality replacement for Henry immediately, ever if he is NIQ.

Personally I think all our problems come from the backrow, looking at our depth V others

Ulster
Iain Henderson
Charlie Butterworth
Robbie Diack
Chris Henry
Conor Joyce
Mike McComish
Sean Reidy
Clive Ross
Nick Williams
Roger Wilson

Leinster
Shane Jennings
Kevin McLaughlin
Jordi Murphy
Seán O'Brien
Rhys Ruddock
Dominic Ryan
Jack Conan
Jamie Heaslip
Josh Van Der Flier (acamady)

Munster
Shane Buckley
Sean Dougall
Dave O'Callaghan
Tommy O'Donnell
Barry O'Mahony
Peter O’Mahony
CJ Stander
Patrick Butler
Robin Copeland

Players who I think can operate at the top level (ie European Cup, V top teams in League) are Henderson, Henry, Wilson and Diack the rest are just not up to this standard, Williams is only good V middling to lower teams and the rest mostly do honest shifts and are at this level also.

Leinster all the listed I'd be happy with, Munster again all would do a decent job

We have more back rowers than the others, but most are just squad fillers, in reality next year we really do need to get Sean Dougall back and at least one (should be two) others from Leinster (Jordi Murphy/Jack Conan) maybe even Willie Faloon and cut a lot of the squad fillers we have.

For this we have to be prepared to lose Luke Marshall I think to Munster. We have an abundance of centers and need backrowers if David Nucifora is going to help inter provinicial moves then this should happen.

Kingshu - I'd add the massively promising Jack O'Donoghue at Munster and Dan Leavy at Leinster.

Ulster have few enough Test class players without exchanging them for non-Test class backrows. I don't really understand why some people think Ulster have a proliferation of centres anyway? Marshall and Olding are the best of them so I'd be doing everything to keep them, with McCloskey not far behind.

If it were to be a Centre to leave, I would far and away prefer it to be Cave who consistently underwhelms me for a player of his experience. If he were to go to Munster I'd expect either Copeland or Stander to move the other way as players of similar standing.

Cave is our best outside Centre. Better than Payne, and if Payne was not to return at Fullback, I would much rather he leave than Cave.

I agree that Cave is better than Payne at 13, but that doesn't mean he should be persevered with at Ulster to the exclusion of all else. He simply doesn't have the 'X' factor to exploit space the way Ulster need him to do. I'd far rather let him go than continue to block a place that needs to be filled by a better option.

It was interesting that BOD specifically mentioned 'defence' as Cave's main weakness (hampering his Ireland progress) - when most consider his lack of oomph in attack to be the problem. As a seasoned pro Darren should be leading the back-line dictating plays and directing players - as it is he is more vocal off the pitch than on it.

I think Cave have been one of the few good players in the Ulster team recently, I don't really understand the criticism against him. He has made quite a few clean breaks as well that I can recall in the past few games, if I am not mistaken.

I picked L.M as the way i see it we need two top player for each position,
at 13 we have Cave or Payne
at 12 we have Olding, Marshall, McCloskey so its likly one of these 3 we would lose

so I figure if its one of the 12's we would lose, Olding and McCloskey offer two different styles allowing us a horses for courses selection, also i do worry if Marshall may have to retire early (which would be a real shame as he is very talented).

I also think we should take a hit on Williams and agree a deal to release him a year early, to look at a better NIQ backrower post WC. Think we should really have been on the ball and taken Copeland from Cardiff Blues before Munster did.

The Great Aukster wrote: Herbst - maybe, he'd certainly be in contention for a cap if he were IQ, but he'd still be inexperienced at that level so until he's tested... For all Ulster's scrum success this season - it has rarely translated into points and that aside Wiehan is fairly slow around the park and hasn't great hands.

He is a better player than Ross who has 44 caps

The Great Aukster wrote:Tuohy - has been capped so by definition is Test class - now Foley has emerged he may struggle to make an Ireland 23. Yet he rarely has dominant MOTM contention performances, and still has 'eejit mode' in his programming. VdM also has a Test cap and is a solid but unspectacular performer who plays much smarter than Dan but I'm not sure I'd call him Test class either.

Prior to his injury Tuohy was the form Irish lock - he offers a ball carrying ability superior to any other Irish prop.
If he return to that form he will be on the plane with POC, Toner and Henderson.
(sadly I assume here Ryan will not both get back to fitness and form in time)

Cave is going nowhere he has signed a 3 year contract.

If any centre goes it will be Payne

Iain Henderson seen by Ireland as a 2nd row
Charlie Butterworth waste of a contract -cut him loose
Robbie Diack Good Pro12, good Europe backup, not test class
Chris Henry Excellent European player, decent test player
Conor Joyce Not going to make it - cut him loose
Mike McComish A joke - cut him loose
Sean Reidy Not going to make it - cut him loose
Clive Ross Decent Pro12 backup
Nick Williams show pony - cut him loose
Roger Wilson in decline - no more than a good Pro12 player and decent Europe back up.

Take out Iain Henderson we have one player good enough for Europe and a couple good enough for the Pro12 + 1 backup
Depressing
Dow and Taggart should be getting game time above any with the 'cut him loose' label

Aukster touched on it but before the season started I had hoped to see Olding and Marshall in tandem. The AIs showed that with a decent gameplan the positions are changeable. Throw McCloskey into that mix and we have three young bucks who will never be paired because the management want the safety net of Cave or Payne at 13... Far too bloody conservative.

Cave is a smashing player and I do rate him but against the top defences we need more. He did rightly with a couple of half breaks and some carries in huge first half but these half breaks are all you get against the top sides and we simply aren't converting them. I'm not blaming Cave for this solely by the way as I do believe there is a coaching issue but the upside of the younger guys is they are younger, quicker and better passers. Let's give them the chance.

That's the point Stand U. Given a choice of Cave or Payne for 13 I'd go Cave, but in truth Cave has been exposed this season in attack and defence - largely because Trimble isn't there to bail him out. Marshall, Olding and McCloskey have all showed I'd rather have them than DC. With Stockdale coming through as well I think Cave has had every opportunity and still fails to impress, so which of the potential talent is going to be the next Chris Farrell and leave without getting the backing they deserve?

Like Nick Williams and Robbie Diack, Cave can put in some stellar performances but they usually don't come when Ulster really really need them. Best, Henry, Bowe, Trimble, Pienaar and Payne (at 15) are in a different league in that regard.

Roger Wilson was given another two years so does that mean he should be starting all the big games for Ulster until 2016? Giving Cave three years is seriously questionable business and smacks of pouring oil on troubled fans' water rather than making an educated longer term rugby decision. Would the contract that Cave is on have secured a top quality back rower?

All the talk of trying to lure a backrower to Ulster might have been easier if Cunningham hadn't spent that money on a Centre rather than a backrow. Of course Bryn knows Wilson and Cave well from when he managed them in his Cornerflag days, so maybe he knows what he is doing?

The Wilson contract looks farcical. I would seriously question whether he is HEC standard anymore but I do also acknowledge that the Backrow guys are being flogged because there is no depth.

I don't doubt wilsons dedication one bit but I'm worried Father Time has caught him.

Whoa I have to say I find the criticism of Wilson and Caves contract as really bizarre and wrong headed.

As I illustrated we have 1 top backrower and 2 of Pro12 quality.
We have no opportunity to sign a NIQ player next year and you want question giving a contract to one of the 2 players who is of Pro12 standard.

The answer to us only have 3 backrowers of any acceptable standard is to get rid of one of them !
Sure he is in decline but we need to strengthen the squad not weaken it.
He will no longer be on top money.
Will he be our first choice 8 next year - probably but that is because Humphreys/Anscombe gave Williams an extension and signed Ludik not a top backrower - that is where the blame lies.

As for Cave he may be just short of international class but he remains our top 13 and he has shown so this year. To be honest he has been messed around something rotten this year to accomodate Payne. He organises our defence better than anyone else and he makes the younger lads ticked. Also the criticism of him and Bowe is unfair given the lack of decent ball from 9, and sometimes 10, for much of this year. Add to that a selection policy in the centre that can at best be described as bizarre and I would describe as a joke - how many combination have we tried ?
Also Marshall, Olding, McCloskey have no experience at 13 - again the solution is get rid of our most experienced 13 !  

Ulster problems are attracting players not money - Cave and Wilson resigning is not stopping anybody being signed.

The last thing we need to do is get rid of a couple of experienced heads - talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water !!

It's all a question of value for money. Wilson was reputably on one of the top three contracts when he came back and that in a situation when Ulster also had Muller, Pienaar and Afoa on their books. Was that a good value for money deal? Perhaps he is now on a contract more commensurate with the squad player level he now sits at and therefore why should he go?

Cave on the other hand is reputed to be on a contract more associated with an elite Test player. The perception that he's being "messed around" is something that has been bandied about for years and it would be oh so different if he only had backing etc. etc. A succession of coaches at Ireland and Ulster have tried other options, but they have also tried him and with different partners. Are they doing this just to mess him about or are they genuinely giving him every chance but not finding what they need?

Assuming it's the latter and Cave's not the required class, should Ulster settle for that to appease the hometown fans? The 'nudge nudge' implication of Cave getting a three year contract is that Ulster Rugby have guaranteed him first choice 13 shirt, and so rather than be seeking to strengthen an area where they are not good enough they have once again settled for an expedient second best option. The further 'wink wink' implication is that Payne has been told that (the non-test class) Cave is ahead of him for the 13 shirt and he's thrown his toys out of the pram (and his RWC aspirations) - so is Payne the baby that is being thrown out with the bath water?

While the whole 'justice for Cave' sideshow is being played out, there are calls for swapping some far more talented Centres for some journeymen backrows. I don't want to see Cave go either but if Ulster are in danger of losing a Test class fullback AND a Test class centre in order to keep him then I don't consider that good value for money.

There are anumber of false assumption in the below

The Great Aukster wrote:  It's all a question of value for money. Wilson was reputably on one of the top three contracts when he came back and that in a situation when Ulster also had Muller, Pienaar and Afoa on their books.

Wilson was never one of the top 3 paid players at Ulster. He was the best paid player who wasn't NIQ or on a central contract. That will not be the case over the next 2 years

The Great Aukster wrote:Was that a good value for money deal?

No - blame Humphreys

The Great Aukster wrote:Perhaps he is now on a contract more commensurate with the squad player level he now sits at and therefore why should he go?

That is my point. tHe new contract makes good sense for Ulster

The Great Aukster wrote:Cave on the other hand is reputed to be on a contract more associated with an elite Test player.

Really by whom?

The Great Aukster wrote:The perception that he's being "messed around" is something that has been bandied about for years and it would be oh so different if he only had backing etc. etc. A succession of coaches at Ireland and Ulster have tried other options, but they have also tried him and with different partners. Are they doing this just to mess him about or are they genuinely giving him every chance but not finding what they need?

My comment regarding being messed around was confined to selection, at Ulster this year - do you disagree?
A succession of coaches at Ulster have tried different option - in what way? Prior to the experiment with Payne this year Cave has been one of the most settled players in the team and till Marshall/Olding and McCloskey emerged his 12 was nearly always Wallace.
Cave has always been just short of test class, no one is denying that, but for a number of years he was the second best 13 in Ireland and as such should have been in the squad.
With Fitzgerald returning and the emergence of Henshaw we have now have alternatives.  

The Great Aukster wrote:Assuming it's the latter and Cave's not the required class, should Ulster settle for that to appease the hometown fans?

Ulster should sign the best 13 they have available and if budget allows the 2nd best as well - Cave fits that description.
We all would love a team full of Ferris, BOD, Sexton, Murray quality players - sadly that is not possible.  

The Great Aukster wrote:The 'nudge nudge' implication of Cave getting a three year contract is that Ulster Rugby have guaranteed him first choice 13 shirt, and so rather than be seeking to strengthen an area where they are not good enough they have once again settled for an expedient second best option.

They haven't guaranteed him a place (no one is guaranteed a place) - they have, probably, guaranteed him an assurance that the team will be picked on performances not preferential treatment for another player.
If you know of an IQ 13 who is better and available please tell Bryn he will be delighted.

The Great Aukster wrote:The further 'wink wink' implication is that Payne has been told that (the non-test class) Cave is ahead of him for the 13 shirt and he's thrown his toys out of the pram (and his RWC aspirations) - so is Payne the baby that is being thrown out with the bath water?

Pure specualtion based on what?
Payne has been told nothing of the sort.
If he has thrown his toys out of the pram based upon the fact that he and Cave will be on a level playing field then good riddance.

The Great Aukster wrote:While the whole 'justice for Cave' sideshow is being played out, there are calls for swapping some far more talented Centres for some journeymen backrows. I don't want to see Cave go either but if Ulster are in danger of losing a Test class fullback AND a Test class centre in order to keep him then I don't consider that good value for money.  

To call Cave a journeyman is out of order.
Payne is a test class centre ? - really ? he has played one unspectacular game - not proven.
If Payne goes it would not be for money reason so the point is false anyway

Standulstermen wrote:The Wilson contract looks farcical. I would seriously question whether he is HEC standard anymore but I do also acknowledge that the Backrow guys are being flogged because there is no depth.

I don't doubt wilsons dedication one bit but I'm worried Father Time has caught him.

Well, we can't complain about a lack of strength in depth and complain about Wilson getting a new contract. I agree he's no longer good enough to be first choice but we need numbers in the back row so we're really not in a position to get rid of anyone. Same thing with Reidy etc. Sure, cut them loose. Once we replace them with someone better.

I don't know why its Cave and Payne being mentioned as said before think its between Olding, Marshall or McCloskey

This is speculation that David Nucifora will work to move talented players around a bit between Provinces to get them more quality gametime, we need Backrows and have an abundance of talented Centers.

We really don't know if he will put pressure on on backrows to move to Ulster, nor if he will try to move a center the other way, it really depends on what exactly his role is for this.

one thing for sure is we need Backrows far more than any other Province needs one of our Centers.

how much gametime is Jack Conan really going to get being behind Jamie Heaslip and Jordi Murphy, really one of Conan or Jordi Murphy should come to Ulster as they would get plently of gametime if Sean Dougall returns I still would be worried about our back row but it would be vastly better than this year.

Humphreys left us in a dreadful position. A man who's heart I'd have always thought was Ulster through and through ended up preferring the bulge in the wallet. I can understand he'd have been daft to say no to a glowing bank balance but I can't understand the mess that was left in his wake, a mess not entirely of his own making mind you. The current suits have their own share of the blame to take. I only hope and pray we can come out of all this stronger when Kiss returns etc.

Well looking at what we have and given we cannot sign any NIQ I would suggest
we go into next season with

All ready signed up:
Roger Wilson[33][2017]
Nick Williams[31][2016]
Chris Henry[30][2017]
Robbie Diack[29][2017]

Give a 1 year contract:

Clive Ross[24][2015]

Sign only if we fail to sign a couple of, realistic,  IQ players - Dougal and McLaughlin for example
Sean Reidy[26][2015]

Absolutely no point signing
Mike McComish[31][2015]
Charlie Butterworth[24][2015]
Conor Joyce[21][2015]

Incorporate into the 1st team squad and give them a chance to prove themselves
Taggart
Dow

So to speculate have Wilson, Diack, Henry, Williams, Ross, 2 New IQ players, Dow, Taggart, Henderson (split with 2nd row)

geoff998rugby wrote:Well looking at what we have and given we cannot sign any NIQ I would suggest
we go into next season with

All ready signed up:
Roger Wilson[33][2017]
Nick Williams[31][2016]
Chris Henry[30][2017]
Robbie Diack[29][2017]

Give a 1 year contract:

Clive Ross[24][2015]

Sign only if we fail to sign a couple of, realistic,  IQ players - Dougal and McLaughlin for example
Sean Reidy[26][2015]

Absolutely no point signing
Mike McComish[31][2015]
Charlie Butterworth[24][2015]
Conor Joyce[21][2015]

Incorporate into the 1st team squad and give them a chance to prove themselves
Taggart
Dow

So to speculate have Wilson, Diack, Henry, Williams, Ross, 2 New IQ players, Dow, Taggart, Henderson (split with 2nd row)

I'd agree with this, would ideally like to see the 2 IQ as Dougal and McLaughlin/Jack Conan/Jordi Murphy

Also would be happy to see Willaims released from his contract (with compension) to sign a top quality backrow that would be available post WC.

Something like Wilson, Diack, Henry, very good NIQ , Ross, Dougal, Jordi Murphy, Dow, Taggart, Henderson would be a vast improvement on what we have this year,

Trouble is with NIQ going down from 5 to 4, next year.
Williams going would not really help as we would not be able to sign a NIQ.

Sadly Jordi Murphy is going nowhere - Dougal there are rumours, McLaughlin is pure speculation on my part but a realistic one.