Scotland's number 10 - anyone got a clue?

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It probably isn't hyperbole to suggest that the selection of Scotland's 10 for the world cup will go a long way to decide how successful we are. In my mind every other position has a few front runners and I'd generally be happy whoever gets picked, although perhaps not the back row (which has been debated to death!).

Every successful rugby nation has a number one 10.  Someone who is pretty much an automatic pick that leads the team forward and wins them games.

A year away from the world cup and Scotland still don't have a nailed down starter at 10.  Many have had a shot, none have kept the shirt just yet.

So who are the options?

Front runners

Duncan Weir



Age - 23
Caps - 15
Starts - 10
Tries - 1
Conversions - 4
Penalties - 6
Drop goals - 1 (and what a drop goal it was!)

Strengths - Strong kicking game, relatively consistent goal kicker.

Weaknesses - Suspect defence. Very lateral in attack. Prone to the odd lapse in concentration and trying to force things (6N game vs France).

Verdict - This time last year Weir was my choice for the 10 shirt. Last season however he had a very poor season with Scotland.  He seemed to have regressed and was very shaky in possession, made worse by several high profile mistakes.  He's got competition at Glasgow now with Finn Russell but hopefully that will spur him on to raise his game back to the standards of 2 seasons ago.


Ruaridh Jackson



Age - 26
Caps - 25
Starts - 14
Tries - 0
Conversions - 3
Penalties - 2
Drop goals - 2

Strengths - Strong running game, the most creative 10 at our disposal

Weaknesses - Frustratingly inconsistent.  He can be MOTM one game and a liability the next.  Inconsistent goal kicker. Floats in and out of games.

Verdict - the most experienced 10 at our disposal, and he has had plenty chances with Scotland.  The fact that he's only taken 5 kicks at goal in his 25 caps shows how little he's trusted with the boot at that level! The fact that he has had so many chances yet failed to grasp the 10 shirt long term suggests he may never will, but he is only 26 and hopefully his time at Wasps (who look very strong this year) will teach him better consistency.


Up and coming youngsters

Finn Russell




Age - 22
Caps - 2
Starts - 2
Tries - 0
Conversions - 0
Penalties - 0
Drop goals - 0

Strengths - Good all rounder.  Calm under pressure and a wise head on a youthful body. Good all-round skillset.

Weaknesses - Lightweight for international level, but that will improve with time. Very inexperienced. Unproven.

Verdict - Russell was an absolute revelation for Glasgow last year, earning the 10 shirt for all the high profile games.  He brings a maturity and cool head that none of the other options have shown, and has a very good all-round skillset.  We have been here before though with a young 10 many, many times, so we really need to see him playing again this season to see how he is developing. Very exciting prospect, but is he too inexperienced to rely on with only 10 international games left until the WC?


Tom Heathocoat



Age - 22
Caps - 3
Starts - 2
Tries - 0
Conversions - 0
Penalties - 0
Drop goals - 0

Strengths - Solid player, suitable for a 10 many rugby game plan. Very good goal kicker

Weaknesses - Inexperienced. Unproven. Questionmarks over his all-round skillset.

Verdict - He's not had the best of starts to his rugby career - frozen out at Bath, thrown into the Lions den for his first cap in the infamous capitulation against Tonga where he was asked to kick the winning penalty (which he missed).  He's got a new start now at Edinburgh and will hopefully build on his early career promise.  He has had a solid if spectacular start for Edinburgh, but his goal kicking has been excellent.


Dark Horses


Greig Tonks



Age - 25
Caps - 2
Starts - 1
Tries - 0
Conversions - 0
Penalties - 0
Drop goals - 0

Strengths - Howitzer of a boot, strong defence, pace of a fullback so can make breaks

Weaknesses - Inexperienced at 10 (only played 10 games there recently), unproven goal kicker.

Verdict - Going to be a big season for Tonks - I think he will make a very good 10, but he needs to get regular gametime there to prove it.  In the run of games he had for Edinburgh last season I was very impressed with him, and he played a key role in some big wins against Gloucester and Perpignan. I think he basic skills are very strong, he just needs to show he can run a game at 10.


Peter Horne



Age - 25
Caps - 5
Starts - 3
Tries - 0
Conversions - 0
Penalties - 0
Drop goals - 0

Strengths - A good running 10.  Good distribution

Weaknesses - Lightweight in defence.  Inconsistent kicking game and goal kicker. Inexperienced at 10.

Verdict - Could be included in the WC squad for his versatility, but the jury is still out as to what his best position is. If you want a fast tempo, open game plan then this man ticks a lot of boxes.  Again question marks on his game management at 10 and tactical kicking.


So who will get the 10 shirt then? One things for sure - with 10 games left (3 of which are friendlies) - Cotter needs to decide very soon on his first choice and get them playing for Scotland as much as possible.

p.s. I've deliberately not included Hogg

No compradres, the question is; we all know that Alex Dunbar is the best 12 in the Pro 12 and he's good enough to play 13 at international standard but can Matt Scott only play 12?
The other question is ; when takes his place at 13 and Dunbar slots in at 12 can Scott dislodge Russell at 10?

I thought that question was on the ballot paper today?

IanBru wrote:Umm... Well this is interesting.

The torch-bearing mob is about 50 yards from my front door. If anything drastic happens, I just wanted to take this opportunity to say...










Is Matt Scott a 12 or a 13?

I believe that fES may have the answer

Jackson's injury definitely helps Cotter's decision, as he now has less players to consider and less to try and give gametime to in order to make his long term decision.

All these options give the impression of strength in depth, but if Weir picks up an injury or is in terrible form, our next most experienced player is Peter Horne, and from memory he's only played once for Scotland at 10 (against SA when he buggered his knee).

I suspect Weir will start the AIs, with bench cover determined by whoever gets gametime with their clubs and shows some form.

That's assuming that Jackson wasn't actually Cotter's preferred option at 10.

Scott (12) and Dunbar (13) is the best combination. Bennett would be first choice back-up for me (for either, as an injury to Scott would allow Dunbar to move to 12 and Bennett to play 13), followed by Duncan Taylor (playing 13 for Sarries currently).

Scott is far better at 12 than 13, and Bennett is far better at 13 than 12. Dunbar seems to me to be the most versatile being useful at both 12 and 13. Similarly I don't think Taylor is particularly better in one slot or the other.

Good to see Tonks back on the bench for Edinburgh at the weekend. Hopefully we'll see more of him at 10. Weir just isn't playing well enough for me, and I think Horne is making a better fist of it personally.

Good performance from Weir this afternoon. Nice varied game, got the tactics right, no real errors, looked to be playing with confidence

Agree about Weir on saturday, that was his best game for a long time, he was very solid apart from one charge down and controlled the game well with the boot. He will need to play well if he wants to keep his place in the Glasgow side, let alone the Scotlland one.

Russell makes his comeback for the A side tonight and I imagine will bench next friday and probably start the week after. I think both he and Weir will get a start in the AI's.

Heathcote has had a run of games now and showed what a good place kicker he is but it is hard to shine in a team that is playing as badly as Edinburgh did in their last two games! Tonks, we have yet to see and make up our minds. Cuthbert has not looked the player he was last season yet and the way things are going, it must be tempting to put Tonks back in at 15 and keep playing Heathcote at 10. I still think he is a very good player and if nothing else will kick edinburgh some points!

Weir is certainly in the driving seat, and will be interesting to see how Russell gets on. He's got an A game today with a very strong Glasgow team who are likely to give Edinbrugh A and absolutely horsing, so that should break him in gently.

As for Heathcoat and Tonks, well Dan Carter could be playing in that Edinburgh team just now and he'd look rubbish. They could be our two best 10s but they certainly ain't gonna show it if the team is playing so poorly.

Heathcoat has now had a run of games and, other than his goal kicking, has been pretty average. Probably unfair to judge him given the quality of ball he has to use.

Tonks is like Finn Russell - only just coming back from injury so too early to tell. He got 20 mins last night but we were 40 points down by that point. I suspect he'll start against the Scarlets on Friday, and surely we can't put in a worse performance.

If Cuthbert continues to play poorly than I would put Tom Brown in at 15 rather than Tonks. We have to stick with Tonks at 10 if he's going to make the move work.

Weir was much better at the weekend. More of that please.

FES I just don't see why we desperately need the move to work with Tonks?

We've got Weir, Russell and Heathcote who are all 2 years younger, with more experience at fly-half than him.  I'd much prefer to see Edinburgh and Scotland look to develop these three and leave Tonks at 15 to give us a bit more quality depth.

Any word on how Harry Leonard has been getting on with Leeds?  Thought it was a pity Edinburgh let him go.

I see Russell and Gray have been the faces behind the recent SRU AIs launch, Cotter's playmaker and captain possibly?

Given that Bezzy is out injured, if Tonks doesn't play 10 then all we've got is Heathcoat. I suspect Tonks will be playing a lot at 10, especially since Tom Brown is due to make a return soon.

ReallyBored, I like your logic, and they'd both be on my lists for those two roles, but I suspect it might be more to do with Enoch Square being a fifteen-minute taxi ride from Scotstoun!

reallybored wrote:FES I just don't see why we desperately need the move to work with Tonks?

We've got Weir, Russell and Heathcote who are all 2 years younger, with more experience at fly-half than him.  I'd much prefer to see Edinburgh and Scotland look to develop these three and leave Tonks at 15 to give us a bit more quality depth.

Any word on how Harry Leonard has been getting on with Leeds?  Thought it was a pity Edinburgh let him go.

I see Russell and Gray have been the faces behind the recent SRU AIs launch, Cotter's playmaker and captain possibly?

Because Weir was utter mince last season and only in the last couple of games has turned things around, Russell has shown promise but has been injured so far this season and only broke through last year, Heathcote has not convinced yet and Jackson is injured.

At Edinburgh we need two quality SQ fly halves. That should be the minimum for both pro Scots sides (and Glasgow have Russell and Weir with Horne covering, all SQ). It is a key position and Scotland needs its pro teams to give it options. At Edinburgh we have Heathcote for one year, and behind him no-one SQ. That's why it is important that Tonks is given a proper shot at 10. I also think he has the raw materials to excel in that role. His pace, side stepping and tackling are top notch, and he can boot the ball a mile. All his performances thus far have shown promise and he just needs more time in the role. We don't need cover at 15 with Cuthbert, Brown and McLennan all able to play there, plus Bezzy who covers both 10 and 15.

You need at least two SQ options at 10 in each pro side, and for Edinburgh that should be Tonks and Heathcote, and given Tonks' late conversion to 10 he needs to be kept there to give him any chance to specialise properly.

I would have kept Leonard as well, but I understand that he was on a hefty contract at Edinburgh and that Solomons wanted the cash allocated elsewhere. Shame, because I thought he was just as good at 10 than Bezzy, and young and SQ as well.

Weir was not utter mince last year, plus he was coming back from a serious ankle injury.  People have been coming down too hard on him, unjustly imo.  

Ireland - Played well and put team in great positions but set-piece was awful
England - Worst performance from a Scotland team in years, he can't take anymore blame than others
Italy - Won the game with DG, don't think any other FH we have could have done it
France - Threw an intercept which probably cost us the game, was involved in Seymour try
Wales - Hogg got sent off and team fell apart, again not his fault

Half-back is a tough position to play, you're the conductors and you're only as good as the band around you.  Before people write off a 23 year old fly-half, surely you'd prefer to see him behind a competent pack with some genuine options out-side him?

Same goes for Heathcote, saying your not convinced after 3 games for Edinburgh and a couple cameos for Scotland when he's unfortunately been surrounded by total gash.  Strikes me as a very English fly-half, a good tactical kicking game and solid distribution rather than a playmaker.  But at 22 he needs to be playing as much as possible, why jeopardise his development to convert a full-back.

Tonks is a great full-back; composed under the high-ball, big left boot, good defensively and can counter attack well.  He may develop into a good fly-half but I just don't see him ever being able to run a back-line like Carter or Sexton.  Full-back is a great position because they've got the freedom to join or lead the attack from anywhere, how often do Dagg, Beale, Le Roux or Hogg come into first receiver.

I think we've still got a hangover from the Parks/Godman era when it comes to fly-halves, so long with no options we're now paranoid about every fly-half that comes along and doesn't start with a bang.  Hence why we toy with the idea of shifting players out of their natural position to try fill the gap, al-la Hogg, Scott, Horne, Tonks.  But we just need a bit of patience, guys like Weir and Heathcote seem like they've been around forever because they were playing club rugby as teenagers and they're still very young for fly-halfs, bare in mind they're both two years younger than Aaron Cruden. And it's not like they've been coming into a settled Scotland side performing well.      

Saying all that, I do hope Russell continues to develop because he looks like he could be a class above the other 3 options due to his confidence with ball in-hand and willingness to take the defence on.

Come sept 2015 we'll have Russell, Weir, Heathcote and Jackson as out and out fly-halves.  Then Laidlaw, Horne, Tonks and Hogg capable of covering, do we really need another option?  Would it not be more prudent to try develop those 4 as much as possible and let the others play their best positions?

Also worth remembering Weir blew a clear 2 on 1 with Lamont against Italy. Yes he wasn't helped by a terrible team performance in the 6N, but the rest of the team weren't helped by him playing like a headless chicken either.

I don't think anyone is saying throw him on the scrap heap - he's only 23 and is the best we've got currently. Problem is we are running out of time - there's 12 games before the WC. I think we've got to start with Weir in the AIs, but keep developing options behind him.

As for Tonks, as I've said we literally only have 1 standoff at Edinburgh currently, so whether or not he should be playing there I suspect he will. Both Heathcoat and Tonks will get a lot of gametime this year so their development will not be affected by lack of gametime.

We are fairly well covered at 15 for Scotland with Hogg, Murchie, Maitland and Cuthbert as it is, but I do wonder how good Tonks at 15 would become given how well he started there.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also worth remembering Weir blew a clear 2 on 1 with Lamont against Italy.  Yes he wasn't helped by a terrible team performance in the 6N, but the rest of the team weren't helped by him playing like a headless chicken either.

I don't think anyone is saying throw him on the scrap heap - he's only 23 and is the best we've got currently.  Problem is we are running out of time - there's 12 games before the WC.  I think we've got to start with Weir in the AIs, but keep developing options behind him.

As for Tonks, as I've said we literally only have 1 standoff at Edinburgh currently, so whether or not he should be playing there I suspect he will. Both Heathcoat and Tonks will get a lot of gametime this year so their development will not be affected by lack of gametime.

We are fairly well covered at 15 for Scotland with Hogg, Murchie, Maitland and Cuthbert as it is, but I do wonder how good Tonks at 15 would become given how well he started there.

You are right Weir is the best you have got. To be honest he is the best of a pretty poor bunch. The next best in line is I suppose Ruaridh Jackson but he is only second choice at Wasps to Andy Goode who is himself past his best. I hate to see it done but are there no New Zealanders with a Scottish auntie?

I'm afraid I do not agree that Weir is the best we've got. Jackson for me is a better fly half, and Weir has done nothing in a Glasgow or a Scotland jersey to make me think differently. Jackson may be inconsistent, but he's red hot when he's on his game. I just haven't seen Weir click properly now for some time. He keeps hoofing the ball out on the full (and kicking is supposed to be his strength), his kicking percentages are not what they should be, he doesn't run much with ball in hand and his distribution skills seem to be regressing. Crabbing sideways and cutting out space for your backline is not how you do things, and Jackson's distribution skills are frankly on a different level. Sure, Weir can punt the ball further, but he's not shown much accuracy in doing so at international level.

I'm not saying throw Weir on the scrap heap to be clear, and similarly with Heathcote. I want them to continue to have chances for Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively and suspect (with Jackson injured) they will both feature for Scotland in the AIs. But I'd by lying if I didn't say that both Horne and Tonks interest me as options at 10, particularly if Laidlaw is going to play at 9 and handle the goal kicking. Both just look more threatening with ball in hand, and Tonks loses nothing to Weir when it comes to kicking out of hand.

We have plenty options at 15, but we still don't have a clear picture of the pecking order at 10. I think it's wide open personally, and any of Tonks, Horne, Russell, Jackson, Heathcote or Weir could have the jersey come the World Cup.

When ever I have seen Duncan Weir or meatball as you lot like to call him play for Glasgow, he always seems to have the ingredients to become a top flyhalf, and I have rarely seen him have a bad game, I think Weir is the future no. 10 for Scotland, unless you unearth a gem somewhere.

Weir ticks the boxes of having a great attitude and playing with passion. A couple of seasons back when he started to break through I also tipped him as the long term option for Scotland at 10. Problem is the more experienced he gets the more like Dan Parks he becomes. His instincts are to kick first, pass second, and he sits far deeper than Jackson to allow himself the time to make that decision. His kicking is powerful but he doesn't have full control over it yet, thus the repeated kicks out on the full over the last 12 months. His passing game looked sharp in that Scotland A demolition over the Saxons a couple of seasons back, but he seems to have lost that ability, or rather he doesn't use it. Maximising overlaps should be the bread and butter for a fly half but on several high profile occasions in the last 12 months he's botched simple try scoring opportunities.

I'm not saying he won't be the fly half at the WC next year, he's probably still the favourite given his role at Glasgow, but I'd like to see others also given a chance, including Greg Tonks.

Can we open this debate up a bit, there so much to discuss across the park and fly-half is kind if irrelevant if our pack don't improve.

Encouraged by the form of Murray, Gray and Harley up front for Glasgow, need Reid to get back up to speed before November.  Ford's form has improved and no-one else has really put their hand up, plus reports from France suggest Gray Snr is playing well. A fit Barclay deserves a chance imo and injuries mean Beattie is probably our only 8.

Reid, Ford, Murray, Gray, Gray, Harley, Barclay, Beattie

Agreed on Euan Murray, he looks in good condition and hungry to succeed this season. It's probably his last season in Scotland colours and I suspect he wants to really target the World Cup.

I can't recall Jonny Gray having a bad game so for me he's a shoe in for the AIs, with the question being whether Gilchrist, Swinson, Hamilton or his brother partner him. My pick would be his brother.

Harley must surely also play in the AIs, on the basis that Brown apparently can only play 7. I would personally start Brown at 6 and Cowan at 7 with Beattie at 8 and Harley on the bench, but it seems the Scotland coaches don't see it that way.

My packfor the AIs would be:

1.Reid 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.J Gray 5.R Gray 6.K Brown 7.Cowan 8.Beattie

16.Dickinson 17.Brown 18.Cross 19.Gilchrist 20.Harley

....and to complete the picture, my backs would be:

9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Dunbar 13.Bennett 14.Seymour 15.Hogg

21.Cusiter 22.Horne 23.Maitland

Full team for me would be...

Reid, Ford, Murray
Gray x2
Brown (c), Beattie, Barclay
Cusiter, Russell,
Seymour, Dunbar, Bennett, Maitland
Hogg

Bench – Dickinson, Brown, Cross, Swinson, Harley, Laidlaw, Horne, Visser

CS - the close calls for me were Visser vs Maitland, Laidlaw vs Cusiter and Barclay vs Cowan and I can completely understand why you went the other way.

Omitting Weir completely is a bold call. I'm not big fan as set out above, but against the Dragons he looked a little like his old self, particularly his kicking from hand which seemed to have regained some purpose, as opposed to just belting the ball all over the place.

I really do hope Cotter goes for that front 5 we have both identified. Really strong and solid front row with plenty athleticism and workrate in the second row.

Dunbar and Bennett in the centres for me is a no brainer. I don't want to see Duncan Taylor in there.

funnyExiledScot wrote:CS - the close calls for me were Visser vs Maitland, Laidlaw vs Cusiter and Barclay vs Cowan and I can completely understand why you went the other way.

Omitting Weir completely is a bold call. I'm not big fan as set out above, but against the Dragons he looked a little like his old self, particularly his kicking from hand which seemed to have regained some purpose, as opposed to just belting the ball all over the place.

I really do hope Cotter goes for that front 5 we have both identified. Really strong and solid front row with plenty athleticism and workrate in the second row.

Dunbar and Bennett in the centres for me is a no brainer. I don't want to see Duncan Taylor in there.

100% agreed on Dunbar/Bennett being the only logical centre options. Dunbar in particular has been superb this season. Taylor tries hard but is a bit of a donkey when set next the these two.

Weir did play well at the weekend, but he’s never really impressed me at an international level, and I think we should give Russell a run of games before the RWC. Horne would bring something a little different off the bench, though maybe not the best option if we are trying to close out a tight game.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Full team for me would be...

Reid, Ford, Murray
Gray x2
Brown (c), Beattie, Barclay
Cusiter, Russell,
Seymour, Dunbar, Bennett, Maitland
Hogg

Bench – Dickinson, Brown, Cross, Swinson, Harley, Laidlaw, Horne, Visser

Would say my XV would be fairly close to this. I would choose that back division.
The pack I would probably put Harley ahead of Brown at the moment but it would be a close call.
Not had a chance to watch Barclay play yet this season, is he in good form?
Will Rennie still be in with a shot, apparently playing v well at Bristol!
The bench for me is a key area for Scotland. I want players who are going to make an impact from the bench and offer a step up in tempo when others are getting fatigued. I would have Fraser Brown, Al Dickinson, Geoff Cross, Grant Gilchrist, Kelly Brown/Blair Cowan(both can cover 6,7,8 so would be dependent on form)
I would possibly look at Sean Kennedy or Grayson Hart as replacement 9 ahead of laidlaw. Laidlaws passing so far this season at Gloucester has been slow and still doesnt offer a threat with a break or strong snipe. I'd want the replacement 9 to have a quick tempo and offer a good snipe as fringe defences are tiring. Kennedy has looked a good player when i have seen him play and no worse than Laidlaw so would look at alternate options.
For the sub fly half role I would probably go either Tonks or Horne. Both are pretty sharp players and would offer good impact. Tonks covers 10 or 15 and has played 12 at Saints. Horne covers 10,12 and at a push 15. Would come down to who has had most recent game time but at the moment I'd verge on Tonks. The sub outside back I would be tempted to have Sean Lamont. I don't think he should be starting for Scotland but do think he offers very good impact and whenever he is a sub he always seems like a man possessed and puts in a far better performance than when he starts.

On the fly half debate. I think Finn Russell is the clear choice at 10, had a great season last year for Glasgow and looked comfortable for Scotland in his first cap.
Back from injury now so expect him to leapfrog Duncan Weir and get the 10 jersey back for Glasgow. Certainly best all round 10 who has a good kicking game a very strong passing game and is good at breaking himself. Plus in defence he is very strong. Others may have stronger parts to their game but overall I think Russell is the best 10 we have.

I actually think the role of coming off the bench to close out a tight game could well be the one that Weir ultimately adopts (with competition from Heathcote), with Jackson or Russell (or Horne or Tonks) taking the starting role.

Our pack is no longer our strength in my view, and with the outside backs we have I'd prefer to have a player at 10 who can distribute, create and execute try scoring opportunities than simply hoof the ball and get us "playing in the right areas" and "adhering to systems". We need a 10 that is alive to opportunities whereever we are on the pitch, and not one simply playing to orders. With the likes of Bennett, Visser, Maitland and Hogg in our backline we need to be ensuring that these guys are put into space with the ball, and not simply consigned to chasing kicks and fighting for turnovers.

In the last couple of years we seem to be stuck with the 2000 - 2010 Scotland gameplan, a period where we had rubbish backs but a decent pack. The tactics under Scott Johnson were not tailored to the players we currently have.

Majestic83 wrote:
The sub outside back I would be tempted to have Sean Lamont. I don't think he should be starting for Scotland but do think he offers very good impact and whenever he is a sub he always seems like a man possessed and puts in a far better performance than when he starts.

Can't agree with you on this. He just doesn't have the pace anymore for international rugby, as a winger or a centre. At wing it should be two from Visser, Fife, Maitland and Seymour, and the 13 jersey for me is a straight call between Bennett and Dunbar.

I hear what you say in that Lamont's passion and physicality does add something from the bench but I'd be looking to develop the Scotland backline into a far sharper attacking force and Lamont is just a blunt instrument. He can make yards, but ultimately he's a crash ball merchant and in his entire career I've yet to see him make a meaningful pass. Were we looking to play "Solomons rugby" he'd be the first back on the teamsheet, putting in big hits and running down kicks, but Scotland should look to replicate Glasgow as much as possible, and Lamont doesn't even get into the Glasgow team these days other than on rotation duty.

Is Reid really our number 1 number 1?

Suspect it will come between him and Dickinson given Grant is injured. Dickinson has always impressed me for Scotland (when he's played at loosehead) and anchors the scrum well for a relatively small prop. I'd like to see Allan involved too if he continues his early season form.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is Reid really our number 1 number 1?

Suspect it will come between him and Dickinson given Grant is injured.  Dickinson has always impressed me for Scotland (when he's played at loosehead) and anchors the scrum well for a relatively small prop.  I'd like to see Allan involved too if he continues his early season form.

Reid was immense for Glasgow at the end of last season. Absolutely immense. He’s earned his shot. Dickinson is a handy back up, and like you I like what I see from Allan so far.

Would Reid not be a better impact sub? That was a role Glasgow often used him for to great success, especially to the end of the season.

Form will come into it I suspect, which immediately puts Dickinson on the back foot because it is difficult to look good when your team is getting pumped!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:
The sub outside back I would be tempted to have Sean Lamont. I don't think he should be starting for Scotland but do think he offers very good impact and whenever he is a sub he always seems like a man possessed and puts in a far better performance than when he starts.

Can't agree with you on this. He just doesn't have the pace anymore for international rugby, as a winger or a centre. At wing it should be two from Visser, Fife, Maitland and Seymour, and the 13 jersey for me is a straight call between Bennett and Dunbar.

I hear what you say in that Lamont's passion and physicality does add something from the bench but I'd be looking to develop the Scotland backline into a far sharper attacking force and Lamont is just a blunt instrument. He can make yards, but ultimately he's a crash ball merchant and in his entire career I've yet to see him make a meaningful pass. Were we looking to play "Solomons rugby" he'd be the first back on the teamsheet, putting in big hits and running down kicks, but Scotland should look to replicate Glasgow as much as possible, and Lamont doesn't even get into the Glasgow team these days other than on rotation duty.

I do agree with you in a sense even about having Lamont on the bench but I'm not sure who i would have on the bench covering the outside backs that would have a big impact.
Visser I don't think would be a good option as in a tight game defesnively he is non existent. Would pick Fife as bench man over him. If Bennett isn't select to start then I would have him on the bench as he would have good impact and has the pace to cover wing as well.
Even though he is definitely past his best and should be other players well ahead of him for me Lamont has something when he comes off the bench and does make a positive impact and also seems to give his team mates a boost.

Agree that Reid finished strongly last season and deserves a shot, and I'd have Dickinson on the bench in case he struggles. I think with Murray and Ford in the other front row positions Reid is the right size to complete the combination. Dickinson is small for a loosehead and I'm not convinced it gives us the right balance with the other two.

Clearly if Ryan Grant can get back to full form and fitness, i.e. the form and fitness that got him on the Lions tour, then he probably gets the nod come the World Cup.

Lamont is probably the closest thing we've got to Jason White in terms of galvanising the squad coming off the bench, and I agree that the other bench options aren't overly exciting. I just think we need to be doing better than having to rely on Lamont - we have got more exciting players out there now.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is Reid really our number 1 number 1?

Suspect it will come between him and Dickinson given Grant is injured.  Dickinson has always impressed me for Scotland (when he's played at loosehead) and anchors the scrum well for a relatively small prop.  I'd like to see Allan involved too if he continues his early season form.

Reid was immense for Glasgow at the end of last season. Absolutely immense. He’s earned his shot. Dickinson is a handy back up, and like you I like what I see from Allan so far.

I would say Reid is the best loosehead Scotland has at the moment if he continues in the form he did last year. Dickinson is also a very good option and I feel has been under rated over the years but think that was mostly due to coaches picking him at 3 which was never going to work out well. I would have dickinson on the bench as his impact is very good as is one of the quickest forwards going around the pitch.
He has definitely adapted well to the new scrum laws and seems to get very much under the tight head and drive them up the way in which Tom Smith used to do.

I'd agree that if you're going for Maitland and Seymour on the wings then Visser on the bench doesn't give a huge amount of cover as an individual, but he could come onto the left wing allowing Maitland to play 15 and Hogg to cover centre if needed. A bit of a faff for one injury. Probably only works if Horne is covering 10 and centre on the bench alongside him.

I'd probably go for Bennett on the bench in an ideal world (covering 13 and wing), with Tonks covering 10 and 15. You would have Scott and Dunbar starting in the centres, Hogg at 15 and two from Visser, Fife, Maitland and Seymour on the wing.

I've long been calling for Fife to have a crack at the Edinburgh 13 jersey which would also make him an ideally versatile bench option, but until he gets a few games at 13 in a club jersey I don't think he can be considered sufficiently versatile at international level.

What are people doing about RWC tickets?

I've just thrown my hat into the fray for a couple of tickets for the Samoa game. Think I'll watch us lose to South Africa at home, but in two minds about Elland Road (and I'm not going all the way down to Glaws).

I've gone for 4 tickets for each game apart from Leeds. Don't fancy going there!

What are people's thoughts on the new alternative strip?

Would have preferred it to be white but it's a better than last seasons.

it's very King Billy!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I've gone for 4 tickets for each game apart from Leeds.  Don't fancy going there!

I've been before for an Everton match. Hostile to say the least. People always seem to refer to the presence of Harvey Nichols in Leeds as a sign of gentrification, but I left the ground fairly confident that the Elland Road faithful were not clientelle of that particular shopping experience.

Kingsholm will be altogether more civilised, although a pain to get to.

Been to kingsholm a couple time and you will have a good time there. Great atmosphere at the ground. A couple good pubs right next to the ground as well. One is teagues bar which is run by Mike Teague. Gloucester is ok for a night out, probably better going to Cheltenham just a couple miles away for food and drinks.

Never been to a game at Leeds but been on a few nights out there and have to say it was a pretty good city to go out in.

Not booked any tickets myself yet. Still deciding whether to go or not.

Applying for tickets for all 4, just have to hope the ballot is kind to me

Really keen for Gloucester, pain to get to but all the West Country cider should make it worthwhile! Ohhh arrr!
Plus see the game in Leeds on the way back home would round off a nice trip.

Not overly fussed about the Boks given we'll probably get shafted.
Very keen for the crunch game V Samoa.

What category's is everyone applying for?

Gone D/C for Japan & USA
And D for Boks & Samoa.

Have a sinking feeling I'll be frantically applying for left overs come November.

Just went for a Leeds double bill of Italy v Canada on the Sat then Scotland on the Sunday. Will be scarperring to York for the night out in between. Only went Cat D, if I can't get that I won't be paying more - will spend the pennies in an Edinburgh pub instead.

Murray wouldn't be available for our QF - if we finish 2nd in the group it will be on a Sunday. Will that be a primary concern for Cotter or will he just be focussing on getting us out the bleedin' group?!

What are people's opinions on centre for RWC?

Bennett hasn't quite pushed on as yet and therefore happy with Scott and Dunbar partnership.  Scott has been one of our most consistent performers and has the tools to be a top International centre, while Dunbar has really developed over the last 18 months and is now one of the form NH centres.  Played well together last year, very strong defensively and can cause defences all kinds of problems.  

But part of me wonders if they're too similar in terms of what they bring to the side, both big hard running direct centres.  Whereas Bennett could add something different to the back-line, more O'Driscoll-esque, with a step and acceleration to get behind the defensive-line to release the out-side backs.  Obviously he's not been doing this consistently yet but if he was to have a strong season for Glasgow, Cotter has a tough decision to make.

Could be an argument for Horne but he's definitely better at 12 and unfortunately not as good as either Scott or Dunbar imo.

Personally I like balance in a team, from the lock partnership to the back-three, so I'd be tempted by one of Scott and Dunbar with Bennett, so long as he pushes on this season.  If he doesn't, lets go direct with two human wrecking balls.

Gosh the World Cup gets me excited.

reallybored wrote:What are people's opinions on centre for RWC?

Bennett hasn't quite pushed on as yet and therefore happy with Scott and Dunbar partnership.  Scott has been one of our most consistent performers and has the tools to be a top International centre, while Dunbar has really developed over the last 18 months and is now one of the form NH centres.  Played well together last year, very strong defensively and can cause defences all kinds of problems.  

But part of me wonders if they're too similar in terms of what they bring to the side, both big hard running direct centres.  Whereas Bennett could add something different to the back-line, more O'Driscoll-esque, with a step and acceleration to get behind the defensive-line to release the out-side backs.  Obviously he's not been doing this consistently yet but if he was to have a strong season for Glasgow, Cotter has a tough decision to make.

Could be an argument for Horne but he's definitely better at 12 and unfortunately not as good as either Scott or Dunbar imo.

Personally I like balance in a team, from the lock partnership to the back-three, so I'd be tempted by one of Scott and Dunbar with Bennett, so long as he pushes on this season.  If he doesn't, lets go direct with two human wrecking balls.

Gosh the World Cup gets me excited.

I’m very happy with a Scott/Dunbar partnership, though Scott’s frequent injury absences are a worry. That’s why it would be good for Bennett to debut in the AIs, as that would give the lad some experience to fall back on if he has to step up at the RWC.

I don’t think it’s fair to describe Scott and Dunbar as just human wrecking balls. It’s true that they’re both big fellas, especially Dunbar, but they are both intelligent players. Both run good lines and make yards, and Scott’s passing is very zippy. With those two at centre, our back three certainly won’t be starved of ball.

Centre is probably the easiest combo in the team to call - Scott-Dunbar just now with Bennet providing backup and competition.

I don't think Horne and Evans are International class centres though, and Taylor is more solid yet unspectacular, so our options outside the top 3 are a bit slim.

Does Andreas Strauss have a Scottish Granny?

Captain_Sensible wrote:
I’m very happy with a Scott/Dunbar partnership, though Scott’s frequent injury absences are a worry. That’s why it would be good for Bennett to debut in the AIs, as that would give the lad some experience to fall back on if he has to step up at the RWC.

I don’t think it’s fair to describe Scott and Dunbar as just human wrecking balls. It’s true that they’re both big fellas, especially Dunbar, but they are both intelligent players. Both run good lines and make yards, and Scott’s passing is very zippy. With those two at centre, our back three certainly won’t be starved of ball.

They are slightly different, so painting them with the same brush is slightly harsh.  

Dunbar tends to run better lines imo, seems to pick good angles and get beyond the defensive line plus he's good at finding a supporting runner out the tackle.  I'd also say his defence edges Scott, seems to force more turnovers.

Scott on the other hand seems more of an all-rounder with the basic skill-set of a fly-half and build of a centre, more of a Kiwi 2nd 5/8, better distribution and kicking game than Dunbar but probably not as effective at getting over the gain-line consistently.  My major issue with Scott though is that he doesn't dominate games, he should be one of the focal-points of attack but too often for Scotland he doesn't seem to get into the games enough.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Centre is probably the easiest combo in the team to call - Scott-Dunbar just now with Bennet providing backup and competition.

I don't think Horne and Evans are International class centres though, and Taylor is more solid yet unspectacular, so our options outside the top 3 are a bit slim.

Does Andreas Strauss have a Scottish Granny?

I have a good story about a certain scottish centre from a night out a few weeks back with the surname of a town in East Lothian!
Funnily enough it was a town in East Lothian the night out occured as well!