The Four Nations thread

[88Chris05]

So, the Four Nations is upon us. Any early opinions?

Naturally, there's an assumption amongst some groups that it will be a procession for Australia, but I'm not entirely sure. They are a side ravaged with injuries and it could be argued that their players who will be on the tour are, in general, a shade past their best in many cases.

Did anyone else see the Australia-New Zealand NRL test match earlier this year? In the end Australia ran out deserved winners, but I felt the margin of victory was a bit harsh on New Zealand, who look a much-improved side from last year's World Cup team. I thought New Zealand's forwards were more or less a match for Australia, particularly Jesse Bromwich who I believe is well placed to become the best prop in the world in the near future.

Australia just had that little bit of extra flair as a get out of jail card within their backs.....But with Slater (one player who made a massive difference that day) and Thurston (faultless with the boot) out of the tournament, I feel the Aussies could be beatable for the first time in a while.

I struggle to see England posting all that much of a threat to the title, and it’s been a year of change; Sinfield gone, Burgess having switched over to Union etc. O’Loughlin’s fitness is a concern, too, and England’s forward pack seems decidedly weaker than those of Australia and New Zealand at the moment. Still, I’m looking for Ryan Hall to further enhance his reputation as one of the best wingers out there (he’s one of the few England players who I feel would get in to any NRL side) and, if his performance in the NRL Grand Final is anything to go by, George Burgess is more than ready to step in to his older brother’s shoes as a first-choice number 8 / 10.

Hopefully there’ll be some discussions of the actual matches on this thread throughout the competition. Any Four Nations-related bits to go here, lads.

Cheers.

[George Hotel1895]

I would like to think that England could win it.
I'm slightly concerned that SM thinks that Liam Farrell is an International 2nd rower.

[Luke]

Think New Zealand are favorites at this moment, though you can never write the Aussies off. And would expect them to have enough young talent.

As for England, saturdays game against Samoa will be a big indicator of what to expect.
Would play Hardaker at FB, Tomkins and Smith in the halfs. And would start with Hodgson at hooker, and use Clark as an impact substitute against tiring legs.

[Luke]

The England side for Samoa has been named it is -

FB - Sam Tomkins
wing - Josh Charnley
center - Kalum Watkins
center - Michael Shenton
wing - Ryan Hall
stnd off - Gareth Widdop
srum hlf - Matt Smith
prop - George Burgess
hooker - Josh Hodgson
prop - James Graham
SR - Liam Farrell
SR - Joel Tomkins
LF - Joe Westerman

sub - Daryl Clark
sub - Brett Ferres
sub - Tom Burgess
sub - Chris Hill.

The backs are pretty much expected, the front row is the obvious strength of the side. The back 3 just don't look international class (though i like Westerman), to me.

[Pal Joey]

Good game, well done England. Samoa are great to watch too.

I got an email from Kenny's lad telling me that he's much improved and doing fine. He's asked me to let you all know.

That's really great news for us all!

[aucklandlaurie]

Man am I dumb, I watched the Great Britain v Samoa game, watched the start of the Kiwis v The Kangaroos, fell asleep (at the Proctor try), wake up this morning......and the bloody Kiwis won.

[George Hotel1895]

Man am I dumb, I watched the Great Britain v Samoa game, watched the start of the Kiwis v The Kangaroos, fell asleep (at the Proctor try), wake up this morning......and the bloody Kiwis won.

That'll teach you

[Luke]

Man am I dumb, I watched the Great Britain v Samoa game, watched the start of the Kiwis v The Kangaroos, fell asleep (at the Proctor try), wake up this morning......and the bloody Kiwis won.

And won quite easily as well.

Thought England were okay, nothing special and feel that to beat a wounded Australia gonna have to make a couple of Changes (especially Sr),.

Thanks loaded dog, hope his recovery continues.

Big game for Scotland at weekend, beat the French and they get included in the next 4 nation's.

[George Hotel1895]

I'm expecting a big effort from England on Sunday.
I don't want to see off loads in impossible positions.
I want England to play it in forwards with simple Rugby League football, and the forwards run at DCE if he plays.
At the same time Australia will be better than they were against NZ.

[Luke]

Would agree with that George. Play it nice and simple, get a footmark in the game, then let the backs go. We have the wingers and front row to worry the Aussies, so get them going, though feel we need to make at least one change to the SR (Whitehead has to at least be on the bench), would also put Tomkins with Widdop in the halfs, Hardaker at FB (much better defensively in my opinion).
Also expect Australia to be better than there first game, especially given that should England win, and New Zealand get there expected win v Samoa (though it won't be easy), then they are both in the final.

Also good luck to Scotland.

[George Hotel1895]

Would agree with that George. Play it nice and simple, get a footmark in the game, then let the backs go. We have the wingers and front row to worry the Aussies, so get them going, though feel we need to make at least one change to the SR (Whitehead has to at least be on the bench), would also put Tomkins with Widdop in the halfs, Hardaker at FB (much better defensively in my opinion).
Also expect Australia to be better than there first game, especially given that should England win, and New Zealand get there expected win v Samoa (though it won't be easy), then they are both in the final.

Also good luck to Scotland.

Looks like its going to be very hard for England to win now seeing as the Aussie's have got their own way with an Aussie ref.

[Duty281]

So England are facing a disadvantage both in terms of location, support and the officials - the last of which is so incomprehensible, it is rather difficult to articulate into words.

Then I always prefer it when the odds stack themselves against England. Improvement needed from last week; then I think such an improvement will be made when the English players sense how great this opportunity is.

Spirit of Rorke's Drift it is.

England by four!

[Guest]

Don't mean to be funny but those Aussie TMOs are crooks. That was a dead cert try for England.

[Duty281]

Officiating carries the day for Australia, sorry to say. A clear penalty to England not given in the lead-up to the first Australian try (obstruction on the English kicker when he chipped through), then an awful decision right at the end not to allow that try.

One can only hope this advances a cause for neutral officials in Rugby League.

Shambolic.

That said, England were poor in the second half after a ferocious first half. All creativity went awry after the break.

No excuse for the officiating, though.



Yeah....the ball was bouncing up, wasn't it?

[Guest]

They know how to put the 60:40 into 50:50. Disgraceful really. I'm used to it with the NZ Warriors in the NRL and this kind of decision is par for the course. Tried to look for a review of the game on the Sydney Morning Herald website. What do you know, the link doesn't work. Probably sweeping it under the carpet. Can we have English refs when we play you guys please? That way neither team is at the mercy of some crack pot blind as heck biased Aussie refs or TMOs. I don't trust Australian league one bit and this is just another tick in that box. Hard lines mate, you guys should have won that.

[George Hotel1895]

Its a simple case of that if Australia lost they were out the comp.
Solution, have a Aussie match ref and a Aussie VR, problem sorted.
Aussies don't want neutral refs. Never have never will. They want refs who give them a majority of 50/50 calls, which the clown did Sunday.

[Duty281]

Must-win game for Australia on Sunday, so guess who is the referee?

Mr. Sutton once more!

An English referee has been appointed for England-New Zealand - to appease us? - and I cannot say I am terribly happy about that either...although a Kiwi is in the TMO box.

[Pal Joey]

Come on guys. Stop sulking. It's only a game.

You're all correct though. That refereeing performance left a sour taste in my mouth too. That simply shouldn't happen in this day and age.

If it's any consolation; our cricket team suffered their worst series loss ever.

However, my local football team are Champions of Asia... and there was some controversy there too apparently. The Saudis reckon 4 clear penalties were missed by the Japanese ref - same one who mucked up in the World Cup in Brazil.

So it goes both ways. How many times have I had to witness similar monumental "blunders" by non-Australian refs? It has happened a hell of a lot over the years. So much so, that I've almost become desensitised by the regular occurrence of them.

I agree with you all though. It was a dreadfully biased display from Sutton and really doesn't help to sell the game...  not only beyond... but also within these convict shores!

[Guest]

Bl00dy heck LB, a reasonable response. I was a bit harsh above, sorry mate. But I stand by my NZ warriors comment tho. I'm sure it's real. Actually, looking at it, all teams are in with a chance to make it to the final. I read an article about the permutations but they're pretty convoluted so I've forgotten them. So maybe it was actually good for the 'game' that the TMO was blind as it sets up a pretty exciting final round of the the 4N. Imagine if Samoa did the unimaginable, nah, couldn't happen surely. Good news about the pommy ref for us, hope it's the same guy that reffed kiwis v Oz, he let the game flow well.

[Pal Joey]

Bl00dy heck LB, a reasonable response. I was a bit harsh above, sorry mate. But I stand by my NZ warriors comment tho. I'm sure it's real. Actually, looking at it, all teams are in with a chance to make it to the final. I read an article about the permutations but they're pretty convoluted so I've forgotten them. So maybe it was actually good for the 'game' that the TMO was blind as it sets up a pretty exciting final round of the the 4N. Imagine if Samoa did the unimaginable, nah, couldn't happen surely. Good news about the pommy ref for us, hope it's the same guy that reffed kiwis v Oz, he let the game flow well.

That's OK, mate. I forgot the at the end.

Fair enough how you perceive the Warriors treatment in the NRL but I think all teams have had periods where maybe the refs tend to favour them... and it's usually the "poorer" victim that fails to get the rub of the field at times. But it sort of ebbs and flows.

I remember watching many Warriors home matches where they definitely got the benefit of the doubt a few times. At really crucial times too.

However, I say that's good if the decisions were correct. If not, then that is certainly a black mark against that particular ref. I can't stand those over-excessive constantly screaming "hold", "surrender", "Git awhy Jymie!" - type refs who think they are part of some sort of "production". They tend to be the ones who might mistakenly make a monumental blunder... or simply - a crooked decision.

If it happens too many times over a certain period of time, then these refs must be quickly replaced by other more competent, cool-headed and fairer refs.

No team reigns (or should reign) forever and I especially would want to see your team go all the way very soon.
I'm sure there will come a time. That would be fantastic for the game.

[mystiroakey]

England playing well. nZ ahead though sadly through two conversions and we missed both.

On to the second half. If england can cut the mistakes we should take this. We have the lions share of possession.

[Pal Joey]

I have a feeling NZ will finish stronger.

Fantastic 1st half. Some brutal hits and played at a break-neck pace. Ref handling it well so far.

[mystiroakey]

Darn he just dropped it...

[Pal Joey]

So so close.

[Pal Joey]

Big Manu!

[mystiroakey]

Bahhhh

[Pal Joey]

Still 25 mins left, mate. If England score... well then it's a whole new ball game.

[Pal Joey]

Like that

[mystiroakey]

[Pal Joey]

Just thinking about the quality of players on both sides. One of the best games all year!

[mystiroakey]

[mystiroakey]

This game will be lost on margins.

[mystiroakey]

Omg.

[Pal Joey]

Graham coughs it up. All over.
It's up to Australia to just beat Samoa now. I'm not super confident. Strange venue to play in Wollongong. Omens of an upset perhaps?

[Guest]

Good game so far Roos v Samoa, 10-6, been so impressed with Samoa's game over this 4N. They seem really cohesive and resilient.

[mystiroakey]

That didnt last long Bop!!

[Pal Joey]

Better from the Kangaroos but I'm still not convinced this is our best side.
Surely the Kiwis would be quite confident for the final in Wellington.

[Guest]

Yeah Mystir, put the mockers on the Samoans alright. They should be happy with the way they played over the tournament though. They can compete with the best. Well here we are again LB, I have a vision, the Roos will win. Although what's up with the upset bellies? I can't believe this happens as much as it does in rugby and league. A cynic would say Suzie is on the loose again

[Pal Joey]

Well here we are again LB, I have a vision, the Roos will win. Although what's up with the upset bellies? I can't believe this happens as much as it does in rugby and league. A cynic would say Suzie is on the loose again

I think she is over in London, mate.
Did you see on the other thread? Eztebeth (flu) and Coetzee (hamstring) missed training. Things seem to be going from bad to worse.

Not too convinced with the Roos although they did play better last match. Some of the selections don't strike me as world class.
NZ, on the other hand, seem to have a good cohesive and experienced group. You have some really top performers there.
It'll have to be a close one you'd think. Home advantage is also very important I feel. I'm almost expecting a shock result.

[aucklandlaurie]

Im not very confident this, in the Samoan game last week Australia said ' OK you barstids, now that we are at the business end of this tournament, dont any of you start getting any grandios ideas of winning".

LD long time no chat, I spent a bit of time over on your North Shore at the beginning of October, went to the Grand Final, what a big day out that was, Ive still got "Glory, Glory to South Sydney" ringing in my ears.

[Pal Joey]

What a great spectacle to witness, mate. About time they won again. I was at the Prelim. Semi and GF the year before - different story.

You should have dropped in on Mum on the NS... she would have whipped up a NZ-style roast lamb for you!
She's always hosting her Kiwi friends when they drop over.

[aucklandlaurie]

A group of us, wives and all rented a place over at North Curl Curl, the last thing I needed was more Kiwi hospitality...If you know what I mean.

To me Sydney is a fantastic city, but tell me, When you are say at Manly and you want to go to Taronga Park (we went to see the Kermodo dragons, as opposed to the St George variety) why do you have to catch the ferry to Circular Quay then get another another one back to the zoo, and on the journey home you have to repeat the process?

[Pal Joey]

The only other way is by car or bus (change at Spit Jnctn) along Military Rd. It's just that they are both on the northern side of the harbour and since CQ is the main hub, most trips start or end there. There are some routes which make a few stops but I think it's all about the traffic lanes out there... trying to minimise ferries crossing each others paths and staying in the designated shipping lanes.

[Guest]

A group of us wives and all rented a place over at North Curl Curl, the last thing I needed was more Kiwi hospitality...If you know what I mean.

To me Sydney is a fantastic city, but tell me, When you are say at Manly and you want to go to Taronga Park (we went to see the Kermodo dragons, as opposed to the St George variety) why do you have to catch the ferry to Circular Quay then get another another one back to the zoo, and on the journey home you have to repeat the process?

Huh, didn't know that.

I hope it's a good game in the weekend. I'm expecting the kangaroos to win. If we some how win, it will be a massive fillip in beating the Aussies twice in a row. But that's just hopeful thinking.

[aucklandlaurie]

Jeez EBOP good spotting, I rapidly went and put a comma between the "us" and the "wives".

That australian team were just so accurate against Samoa, even without Thurston and some quality props that team can beat anyone.

[Guest]

  Glad we cleared that up.

[Guest]

Pretty good game

[aucklandlaurie]

Well I didnt see that coming

[Pal Joey]

A great win for the Kiwis in the Final.
Thoroughly deserved and the better side - twice in 2 weeks.
Somehow wouldn't have been right if Mata'utia had scored over in the corner in the dying stages.
The Roos will now have to do some soul searching... I still don't think that team ranks well against our best sides.

Congrats, Laurie, ebop and any other Kiwi fan lurking about.

[Guest]

Actually, what a game of league, epic!! Great result for us, hard lines LB, could have snuck it at the end there.

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