Murray to keep Mauresmo but Vallverdu and Green out

First topic message reminder :

Title is fairly self descriptive. Mauresmo stays on as head coach but his fitness trainer and hitting partner are to leave.  I'm not sure about his choice but what do you all think?

Yeah it sounded like there was unrest in the cap and it was affecting Andys on court results. The way he talked it sounded like there was a real atmosphere in his camp, in which case he made the right decision to split with them.

temporary21 wrote:Yeah it sounded like there was unrest in the cap and it was affecting Andys on court results. The way he talked it sounded like there was a real atmosphere in his camp, in which case he made the right decision to split with them.

If you read earlier links on this thread you will see that it wasn't Murray's decision. Valverdu and Green left Murray.  Murray of course didn't have to ask approval for his choice of new head coach but from what I've read Valverdu and Green read that Mauresmo had joined the camp in media reports rather than from Murray himself. Not the best way to promote a happy team spirit. Bad form of Murray not to talk to his "friends" and employees before telling the media. His camp have never looked like the happiest bunch in fact those in his box look like a heart attack about to happen. I don't know about Green but Valverdu looks as if he has done rather well after choosing to leave the Murray camp.

Just to blow your theory out of the water hawkeye. Here are comments on the matter By Andy:

"We chatted at the end of the year," Murray told BBC Sport, as he continued his preparations for the Australian Open, where he begins his campaign against Indian qualifier Yuki Bhambri on Monday.
"It was quite clear that we had completely different views on how I should be doing things and who I should be working with. If you have a disagreement in terms of how things should be working and people aren't going to be flexible with that, then you've got to go in a different direction.
"In the last four or five months of last year we weren't working that closely together: the atmosphere within the team wasn't very good and therefore ultimately it impacts on the results and the performances on the court."

Now Maresmo's arrival came in May around French Open time so if your fanciful theory held any water as to that being the reason I am sure they would have departed straight away rather than hang around for another six months. More realistic is the theory I aired when this story broke that Vallverdu and Green were not happy with Mauresmo muscling in and being coach and this feeling of resentment explains exactly what Andy says above.

hawkeye wrote:

temporary21 wrote:Yeah it sounded like there was unrest in the cap and it was affecting Andys on court results. The way he talked it sounded like there was a real atmosphere in his camp, in which case he made the right decision to split with them.

If you read earlier links on this thread you will see that it wasn't Murray's decision. Valverdu and Green left Murray.  Murray of course didn't have to ask approval for his choice of new head coach but from what I've read Valverdu and Green read that Mauresmo had joined the camp in media reports rather than from Murray himself. Not the best way to promote a happy team spirit. Bad form of Murray not to talk to his "friends" and employees before telling the media. His camp have never looked like the happiest bunch in fact those in his box look like a heart attack about to happen. I don't know about Green but Valverdu looks as if he has done rather well after choosing to leave the Murray camp.

Of course Uncle Tony always looks like he's just watched a 'Bo Selecta' boxset, doesn't he, HE Other than to have yet another go at Murray, I don't get your point.

When Murray's interviewing for a new coach he doesn't have to tell his support staff every move. Why are you even listening to tittle-tattle from 'friends'?

Don't you admire him for at least having the nerve to try a new approach, rather than sit on his two Slams? I wonder what you'd had said if he'd kept the old team and got rid of Amelie

Finally Valverde and good luck to him has left Murray for a player lower in the rankings. "Rather well" would be valid, if he'd joined any of the five above him

But Vallverdu is Berdych's main coach whereas he was Andy's hitting partner. Irrespective of why he and Andy split up, surely that is a big step up for him.

banbrotam wrote:


Of course Uncle Tony always looks like he's just watched a 'Bo Selecta' boxset, doesn't he, HE Other than to have yet another go at Murray, I don't get your point.

When Murray's interviewing for a new coach he doesn't have to tell his support staff every move. Why are you even listening to tittle-tattle from 'friends'?

Don't you admire him for at least having the nerve to try a new approach, rather than sit on his two Slams? I wonder what you'd had said if he'd kept the old team and got rid of Amelie

Finally Valverde and good luck to him has left Murray for a player lower in the rankings. "Rather well" would be valid, if he'd joined any of the five above him

This thread is about Murray and his coaching team and I was responding to it.

Murray can do whatever he wants. However any "unrest in the camp" can't have been helped by his lack of regard for his employees feelings. I called them friends because that was very much how they were portrayed. It would have cost Murray nothing to tell his team members of his plans before informing the media. It very much looks like Valverrdu stayed on Murray's pay role until he could find a better position. The reason for my recent response is because some appear to be attempting to change history by suggesting that Murray got rid of Valverrdu and Green because of the unrest in the camp. He didn't it was Valverrdu and Green that left. IMO that is a big difference.

Also Murray and Berdych are about as close in the rankings as it's possible to be. They are separated by just 75 points  

summerblues wrote:But Vallverdu is Berdych's main coach whereas he was Andy's hitting partner.  Irrespective of why he and Andy split up, surely that is a big step up for him.

Granted it is a step up, but to me again "Rather well" is an overstatement (not for the first time from our favourite poster)

I would deem "Rather Well" an improvement in Berdychs ranking and performances. It's a great opportunity no doubt, but all eyes will be on him if Berdych declines in performance and ranking.

hawkeye wrote:...can't have been helped by his lack of regard for his employees feelings.

I suppose we all make judgements on people by what we think we know about them.

LK: Of course agree that it is too early to tell if Vallverdu will be a success in his new role. It may end up being a disaster and he may get fired within weeks.

But as far as positions go, his current position is far more high profile than what he had before. I am guessing it is also a big improvement in his pay, though obviously I am not sure.

I imagine that if you gave a random coach a choice between the position he had before and what he has now, they would go with his current assignment.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

hawkeye wrote:...can't have been helped by his lack of regard for his employees feelings.

I suppose we all make judgements on people by what we think we know about them.

In this case there is little judgement.  Murray wanted to keep Mauresmo AND Valverdu and Green otherwise he would have got rid of Valverdu and Green himself. He didn't Valverdu and Green left. If there hadn't been talk (by Murray) about unrest in the team then for Valverdu at least it could have been viewed simply as a good career move. Presumably it was Valverdu and Green who told the press that they heard about Mauresmo joining the team via the media. Why would they say anything unless they felt snubbed in some way by this?

As far as judgements go. I have to admit if I were in their position I would feel a little irked not to be told personally. Of course Murray is the boss but if he wants a happy camp he should treat his employees with respect otherwise they may jump ship.

hawkeye wrote:

JuliusHMarx wrote:

hawkeye wrote:...can't have been helped by his lack of regard for his employees feelings.

I suppose we all make judgements on people by what we think we know about them.

In this case there is little judgement.

No, you only ever go on the facts

I hope to god hawkeye hasn't read Heather Watson's thoughts on Murray - good god she will burst a blood vessel.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I hope to god hawkeye hasn't read Heather Watson's thoughts on Murray - good god she will burst a blood vessel.

No, it'll be put down to Watson being a poor judge of character/star-struck/having the wool pulled over her eyes. hawkeye knows the real Murray better than Watson ever will - after all, she reads pretty much every press article about him!

^ Pathetic! Off topic insults lead by a moderator Argue the points if you can but all this shows is you can't

JuliusHMarx wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:I hope to god hawkeye hasn't read Heather Watson's thoughts on Murray - good god she will burst a blood vessel.

No, it'll be put down to Watson being a poor judge of character/star-struck/having the wool pulled over her eyes. hawkeye knows the real Murray better than Watson ever will - after all, she reads pretty much every press article about him!

Well - not everyone as Watson's words have been conveniently not posted here - I wonder why on Earth not?

hawkeye wrote:^ Pathetic! Off topic insults lead by a moderator Argue the points if you can but all this shows is you can't

What insults? Where?

I had to laugh. Please handle HE with care

summerblues wrote:LK:  Of course agree that it is too early to tell if Vallverdu will be a success in his new role.  It may end up being a disaster and he may get fired within weeks.

But as far as positions go, his current position is far more high profile than what he had before.  I am guessing it is also a big improvement in his pay, though obviously I am not sure.

I imagine that if you gave a random coach a choice between the position he had before and what he has now, they would go with his current assignment.

Well it's a big jump up. Not sure how many coaches have progressed from hitting partner to coach. I think it's more a hope he has the rub of Lendl somewhere that Berdych is hoping to tap into. He couldn't get Lendl, now he gets Dani?

I heard before that Lendl had a high opinion of Vallverdu. So who knows, maybe when Berdych had approached him, he may have indeed recommended Dani.

summerblues wrote:I heard before that Lendl had a high opinion of Vallverdu.  So who knows, maybe when Berdych had approached him, he may have indeed recommended Dani.

Yes I heard exactly the same. Berdych approached Lendl to become his coach but Lendl couldn't commit to do a full-time job and recommended Dani Vallverdu who he knew from his time working with him and Murray.

By the looks of things, Vallverdu is now doing just fine. Berdych even credited him with a couple of tactical suggestions in his post match interview.

summerblues wrote:By the looks of things, Vallverdu is now doing just fine.  Berdych even credited him with a couple of tactical suggestions in his post match interview.

In hindsight, was Murray's decision to let Dani go, a wise one?

laverfan wrote:

summerblues wrote:By the looks of things, Vallverdu is now doing just fine.  Berdych even credited him with a couple of tactical suggestions in his post match interview.

In hindsight, was Murray's decision to let Dani go, a wise one?

We'll see in the SF

laverfan wrote:

summerblues wrote:By the looks of things, Vallverdu is now doing just fine.  Berdych even credited him with a couple of tactical suggestions in his post match interview.

In hindsight, was Murray's decision to let Dani go, a wise one?

From what I have read it probably was best for both. Andy had ideas on what he wanted to change in his game. Dani did not agree. So they decided to split. Dani got a coaching job with a top player where he can be clearly seen as a coach rather than being referred to as Andy's 'hitting partner'. Murray himself has said in the past he was more than that. Murray has a fresh start with Mauresmo to progress his game as thinks best. Will be interesting to see how it works out for both of them.

Yes Calder I'd agree it was best for both parties so everyone can trot along as there is no story here. If Berdych and Vallverdu partnership works then good luck to them and Dani can now call himself a fully-fledged coach so he gains from it. Andy looks far more settled and at ease with himself already following the split so I'd say it has worked just fine for him.

Vallverdu needed the Berdy switch to prove he was more than just Murray's buddy but was an actual coach who could get results. All the credit from Murray's slam wins went to Ivan and to Andy and Dani had to feel like for his long term career he would have to show that he could win with another player to get any credence as a coach.

laverfan wrote:

summerblues wrote:By the looks of things, Vallverdu is now doing just fine.  Berdych even credited him with a couple of tactical suggestions in his post match interview.

In hindsight, was Murray's decision to let Dani go, a wise one?

I may agree with those who say it may have been a mutually beneficial decision.  It is now almost certain that it will have been very good for Dani but it may still end up being an ok result for Andy too.  He certainly could not afford to have discord in his coaching team.

Hmm starting to look like a very shrewd move by Andy. Mauresmo 1 Vallverdu 0

I never had any doubts or concerns about the decision

CaledonianCraig wrote:Mauresmo 1 Vallverdu 0

Wow.

I know it was a great post but hardly worth a wow. Still thanks anyway.

I don't think point scoring is necessary.

What is good is Berdych is taking Dani's approach to matches on board.

In terms of keeping himself in check mentally on court, that's for Tomas to sort out.

legendkillarV2 wrote:I don't think point scoring is necessary.

What is good is Berdych is taking Dani's approach to matches on board.

In terms of keeping himself in check mentally on court, that's for Tomas to sort out.

I wouldn't call it point scoring.

Lets be honest if the result had gone the other way this topic would have been awash with comments gloating that Murray shouldn't have gotten rid of Vallverdu.

As I said earlier the move/split was best for both parties as in for Murray it already seems with just Mauresmo there he is happier and more relaxed and adopting the right demeanour and game plan on court. For Dani it works as he is now a full-blown coach. Whether it will work for Tomas is another matter as perhaps you just can't teach mental strength/consistency and stamina.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I don't think point scoring is necessary.

What is good is Berdych is taking Dani's approach to matches on board.

In terms of keeping himself in check mentally on court, that's for Tomas to sort out.

I wouldn't call it point scoring.

Lets be honest if the result had gone the other way this topic would have been awash with comments gloating that Murray shouldn't have gotten rid of Vallverdu.
As I said earlier the move/split was best for both parties as in for Murray it already seems with just Mauresmo there he is happier and more relaxed and adopting the right demeanour and game plan on court. For Dani it works as he is now a full-blown coach. Whether it will work for Tomas is another matter as perhaps you just can't teach mental strength/consistency and stamina.

Depends on the nature of the defeat. 3 set blow out, yes comments would come in.

We need to remember Dani wasn't in a coaching capacity with Murray.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I don't think point scoring is necessary.

What is good is Berdych is taking Dani's approach to matches on board.

In terms of keeping himself in check mentally on court, that's for Tomas to sort out.

I wouldn't call it point scoring.

Lets be honest if the result had gone the other way this topic would have been awash with comments gloating that Murray shouldn't have gotten rid of Vallverdu.
As I said earlier the move/split was best for both parties as in for Murray it already seems with just Mauresmo there he is happier and more relaxed and adopting the right demeanour and game plan on court. For Dani it works as he is now a full-blown coach. Whether it will work for Tomas is another matter as perhaps you just can't teach mental strength/consistency and stamina.

Depends on the nature of the defeat. 3 set blow out, yes comments would come in.

We need to remember Dani wasn't in a coaching capacity with Murray.

No. Certain people that post here would have been onto it no matter what the defeat. Yes I realise his coaching capacity with Murray hence why I said it is better for Dani as he is now in a full-blown coaching job.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I don't think point scoring is necessary.

What is good is Berdych is taking Dani's approach to matches on board.

In terms of keeping himself in check mentally on court, that's for Tomas to sort out.

I wouldn't call it point scoring.

Lets be honest if the result had gone the other way this topic would have been awash with comments gloating that Murray shouldn't have gotten rid of Vallverdu.
As I said earlier the move/split was best for both parties as in for Murray it already seems with just Mauresmo there he is happier and more relaxed and adopting the right demeanour and game plan on court. For Dani it works as he is now a full-blown coach. Whether it will work for Tomas is another matter as perhaps you just can't teach mental strength/consistency and stamina.

Depends on the nature of the defeat. 3 set blow out, yes comments would come in.

We need to remember Dani wasn't in a coaching capacity with Murray.

No. Certain people that post here would have been onto it no matter what the defeat. Yes I realise his coaching capacity with Murray hence why I said it is better for Dani as he is now in a full-blown coaching job.

Are you going to bite at those comments though?

I was one of the first to be optimistic about the decision. He had parted with Lendl, which I supported, but I felt Green and Vallverdu were more permanent fixtures for the work behind the scenes. We learnt more that Andy wanted to embrace other parts of his game so it wasn’t so reliant on stamina. Which the for the most part Murray fans had wanted for a long time.

Now I am not so sure how much we can put this down to Mauresmo. She did wonders with Bartoli and done well with the Fed Cup Team. What is clear was that Andy wanted someone who would embrace the changes he wanted to make and Mauresmo for Andy fitted that bill.

I found the pessimism amongst some Murray admirers totaly perplexing

It's obvious even during the back end of last year, that he has a coach who supports the way he wants to play - i.e. his wonderful variety is back

Lendl was great, but let's be honest it was a less creative Murray that won the two slams, but Lendl's pragmatism was needed

Now, in the latter half of his career he wanted a coach that help him use the most of his varied game and he's got it

Totally agree with you banbro. A fair few of us wanted the shift towards variety, but he did definitely need Lendl and the style that came with him in order to ascend to slam winning form. Now that he has that experience of fitness/power-focus, he can use it while spreading his wings a little more and hopefully become an even better player, with all the shots - and the willingness to use them. It's all about the phases of his career, and the post-Lendl limbo is now starting to morph into the Mauresmo phase.

You, Danny and LK have all talked about this before. It's good to see that Murray is in such a good place right now with his game.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I know it was a great post but hardly worth a wow. Still thanks anyway.

You're too defensive, man. Just enjoy the victory, there's no real need for the petty point tally. As LK says, just don't bite at the comments that irk - rise above, rather than preemptively adopting a siege mentality.

That way you can enjoy Andy's 8th slam final even more! or is it his 9th?

Silver wrote:Quite surprised you're so positive about this one Craig, I thought you'd be up in arms given your complaints over Andy's direction (via Mauresmo) in your epitaph thread?

But, I'm glad you are positive about it here's hoping the decision pays off! I want to see Mr. Murray firing at the top table once more.

Murray is back into a Grand Slam final, for the first time since Wimbledon 2013...it seems to me that the Murray-Mauresmo partnership is working.

it's funny, but when Murray was winning, fans were quite happy to give a lot of credit to Lendl. Now that Murray has reached a GS final, all of sudden some are saying that they're "not sure how much of this is down to Mauresmo".

No surprise there....

shivfan wrote:

Silver wrote:Quite surprised you're so positive about this one Craig, I thought you'd be up in arms given your complaints over Andy's direction (via Mauresmo) in your epitaph thread?

But, I'm glad you are positive about it here's hoping the decision pays off! I want to see Mr. Murray firing at the top table once more.

Murray is back into a Grand Slam final, for the first time since Wimbledon 2013...it seems to me that the Murray-Mauresmo partnership is working.

it's funny, but when Murray was winning, fans were quite happy to give a lot of credit to Lendl.  Now that Murray has reached a GS final, all of sudden some are saying that they're "not sure how much of this is down to Mauresmo".

No surprise there....

So by that token can I blame Mauresmo for Andys poor form post Wimbledon?

Or is that sexism?

I just can't decide

Sex works always, proven.

legendkillarV2 wrote:So by that token can I blame Mauresmo for Andys poor form post Wimbledon?

Or is that sexism?

I just can't decide

I think given all the information we now know about his back and how poorly some other players have performed after surgery, Murray's appearance in the O2 was a near miracle - I dunno what you expected. The Wimbledon defeat was horrible, but maybe him and us expected to much

The reality is, that if it was Del Potro with that post surgery record, the boards would have been full of praise and positivtey. With it been Andy two negative things occurred - those who never rated him in the first place, took the opportunity to say 'told you so'. Meanwhile, us Murray fans not really understanding what an impact both physically and mentally the surgery had, were busy agreeing

And I don't think Mauresmo can be judged on this period anyway, she didn't totally have Murray's ear - but it doesn't matter, because the Murray post Wimbledon to O2 was pretty remarkable given the circumstances

banbrotam wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:So by that token can I blame Mauresmo for Andys poor form post Wimbledon?

Or is that sexism?

I just can't decide

I think given all the information we now know about his back and how poorly some other players have performed after surgery, Murray's appearance in the O2 was a near miracle - I dunno what you expected. The Wimbledon defeat was horrible, but maybe him and us expected to much

The reality is, that if it was Del Potro with that post surgery record, the boards would have been full of praise and positivtey. With it been Andy two negative things occurred - those who never rated him in the first place, took the opportunity to say 'told you so'. Meanwhile, us Murray fans not really understanding what an impact both physically and mentally the surgery had, were busy agreeing

And I don't think Mauresmo can be judged on this period anyway, she didn't totally have Murray's ear - but it doesn't matter, because the Murray post Wimbledon to O2 was pretty remarkable given the circumstances

I wasn't expecting anything banbro.

The poster is implying that Mauresmo should be credited with Andys run of form. Suffice to say if that is the case, then surely she takes flack for poor form.

In terms of his back. I think I was very much alone when I said Andy was struggling physically and everyone said mentally he had gone. If the body isn't working as it should, then that will effect you mentally. Andys season was pretty much over post US Open and playing on done him no favours.

What is the more remarkable than anything else is the weight he has dropped since the O2 and the impact it has had on his movement.

I never once in the epitaph thread said anything about Mauresmo and how good or bad she would do so I am not sure why you would say that Silver.

I am very glad to see Murray in a slam F. Saw a post-match ESPN interview with Murray, where he clearly stated his respect for Mauresmo, and pointedly told the ESPN interviewer about the unnecessary shtick being meted to her. I am certain, if Murray loses the F or wins the F, Mauresmo will be singled out (for praise or criticism) as the case may be. Does anyone remember McLagan, or is he just a distant memory in the Murray career?

The execution is always in the player's hands, no matter what coaching staff is present. For example

Federer+Annacone v Federer+Edberg

Djokovic+Vajda v Djokovic+Becker (dare I mention Todd Martin)

Berdych+Krupa v Berdych+Vallverdu

Wawrinka+Lundgren v Wawrinka+Norman

Lots of pros/cons for either combination.