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ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors

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ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors Empty ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors

Post by George Carlin Mon 01 Dec 2014, 6:01 am

ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors Toulou10                            ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors Glasgo10
Stade Toulousain v Glasgow Warriors
Pool 4, Round 3
Sunday 7 December 2014, KO 16:15
Stade Ernest Wallon, Toulouse

Live on FR 2 / BeIN / BT Sport

Referee John Lacey (Ireland)
Touch Judge 1 Sean Gallagher (Ireland)
Touch Judge 2 Brian MacNeice (Ireland)
Fourth Official David Rosich (France)
TMO Dermot Moloney (Ireland)
Citing Commissioner Tony Lanaway (England)

A. Teams:

1. Toulouse
ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors Marion10
15 Clément Poitrenaud, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Yann David, 12 Gaël Fickou, 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Jean-Marc Doussain, 9 Sébastien Bézy, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Imanol Harinordoquy, 6 Yannick Nyanga (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Joe Tekori, 3 Census Johnston, 2 Corey Flynn, 1 Vasil Kakovin

16 Julien Marchand, 17 Kisi Pulu, 18 Neemia Tialata, 19 Thierry Dusautoir, 20 Edwin Maka, 21 Jano Vermaak, 22 Florian Fritz, 23 Yoann Huget

2. Glasgow Warriors
ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors Bald10
15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Alex Dunbar, 12 Peter Horne, 11 Tommy Seymour, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Henry Pyrgos, 8 Josh Strauss (c), 7 Chris Fusaro, 6 Robert Harley, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Leone Nakarawa, 3 Jon Welsh, 2 Pat MacArthur, 1 Ryan Grant

16 Fraser Brown, 17 Gordon Reid, 18 Rossouw de Klerk, 19 Tim Swinson, 20 Ryan Wilson, 21 Niko Matawalu, 22 Duncan Weir, 23 Richie Vernon

B. Tournament Form:

1. Toulouse

25/10/14 - Bath 19 - 21 Toulouse

19/10/14 - Toulouse 30 - 23 Montpellier

5/4/14 - Munster 47 - 23 Toulouse

2. Glasgow Warriors

25/10/14 - Montpellier 13 - 15 Glasgow

18/10/14 - Glasgow 37 - 10 Bath

18/1/14 - Glasgow 8 - 15 Toulon

C. Head to Head

6 Played 6
5 Wins 1
1 Losses 5
0 Draws 0
23 Tries 9
17 Conversions 9
11 Penalties 12
1 Drop Goals 1
185 Points 102


Last edited by George Carlin on Fri 05 Dec 2014, 8:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by VinceWLB Mon 01 Dec 2014, 6:01 pm

Really looking forward to this doubleheader   Very Happy

The good news is that Toulouse doesn't really do particularly well against Celtic teams on top of my head, Munster, Connacht, Ospreys, Edinburgh (believe it or not) Leinster and Cardiff have all beaten them recently.
The other good news is McAlister is out, they really are a different team when he is firing..

As far as Glasgow are concerned they effectively haven't scored a try in the last 2 games but it should be a different side with lots of players coming back from international duties. Ashe has clearly overtaken bad boy Wilson and Jonny Gray should improve the team over the Ruck Inspector! Props pick themselves up, any reports on how Cusack went? could it be possible to have him coming on if required in the last 10? Not confortable seeing De Klerk on the bench..
Dunbar should add some much needed go forward ball in the midfield and Seymour is a threat anytime he touch the ball and he looks better than DTH this season. Slight worry is Horne who has been average enough so far.

I think it's a game that will be won or lost in the forwards and Glasgow will need to put in a similar display than in Montpellier but with more composure in the backs.

Hopefully more of the same Cool


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Post by RDW Tue 02 Dec 2014, 8:46 am

I have my concerns for Glasgow given their recent form, but given it was without the Scotland players hopefully normal service will be resumed this weekend. This will be a tough game though, as although Toulouse have had an indifferent season so far, they are still 100% in this competition.

Likely Glasgow Squad?

1 Grant
2 McArthur
3 Welsh
4 Nakarawa
5 Gray
6 Harley
7 Fusaro
8 Strauss

9 Pyrgos
10 Russell
11 Seymour
12 Horne
13 Dunbar
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Subs - Reid, Brown, De Klerk, Swinson, Ashe, Niko, Weir, Lamont

Something like that?

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:06 am

I can see Lamont in at 13 for this one with Dunbar at 12. Toulouse are powerful and direct and if Glasgow are to win I think it'll come down to making this a battle and getting into their faces.

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Post by demosthenes Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:13 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I have my concerns for Glasgow given their recent form, but given it was without the Scotland players hopefully normal service will be resumed this weekend. This will be a tough game though, as although Toulouse have had an indifferent season so far, they are still 100% in this competition.

Likely Glasgow Squad?

1 Grant
2 McArthur
3 Welsh
4 Nakarawa
5 Gray
6 Harley
7 Fusaro
8 Strauss

9 Pyrgos
10 Russell
11 Seymour
12 Horne
13 Dunbar
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Subs - Reid, Brown, De Klerk, Swinson, Ashe, Niko, Weir, Lamont

Something like that?

Maitland may still be injured. If DTH is fit, no problem. Otherwise...

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Post by demosthenes Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:15 am

.

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Post by luvtotup Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:23 am

Don't shoot- but think Fusaro needs a good rest and maybe for this one we could get Ashe , Strauss and Harley in the back row . Toulouse have a mighty set of forwards and maybe we lose a little bit of fetching but it's for a bit more go forward and bulk. IMHO .

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Post by whocares Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:26 am

Toulouse facing a bit of a 9-10 crisis with McAlister injured, Flood very likely out and Bezy also uncertain.
would mean out of form vermaak at 9 and flaky Doussain at 10 (who missed 4 penalties on saturday) and no back up on the bench...

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Post by VinceWLB Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:42 am

luvtotup wrote:Don't shoot- but think Fusaro needs a good rest and maybe for this one we could get  Ashe , Strauss and Harley in the back row . Toulouse have a mighty set of forwards and maybe we lose a little bit of fetching but it's for a bit more  go forward and bulk. IMHO .

Totally agree, also on heavy grounds the need of a classic 7 is a lot less important.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Tue 02 Dec 2014, 11:53 am

By "resting" Fusaro, I assume people are meaning drop him?

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Post by George Carlin Tue 02 Dec 2014, 12:27 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
luvtotup wrote:Don't shoot- but think Fusaro needs a good rest and maybe for this one we could get  Ashe , Strauss and Harley in the back row . Toulouse have a mighty set of forwards and maybe we lose a little bit of fetching but it's for a bit more  go forward and bulk. IMHO .

Totally agree, also on heavy grounds the need of a classic 7 is a lot less important.
So we're saying Ashe is a better bet than Holmes?
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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 02 Dec 2014, 1:43 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:By "resting" Fusaro, I assume people are meaning drop him?

Probably. As Scott Johnson says, French teams play above the ground, so you don't need a natural openside against them. Just plonk Wilson on the flanks, that usually works well.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:27 pm

A lot of our driving maul and lineout defence is dependent on Fozzy, so I hope that he's playing.
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Post by RDW Tue 02 Dec 2014, 2:34 pm

George Carlin wrote:A lot of our driving maul and lineout defence is dependent on Fozzy, so I hope that he's playing.

What, do they trip over him as they rumble past? laughing

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Post by VinceWLB Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:37 pm

George Carlin wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:
luvtotup wrote:Don't shoot- but think Fusaro needs a good rest and maybe for this one we could get  Ashe , Strauss and Harley in the back row . Toulouse have a mighty set of forwards and maybe we lose a little bit of fetching but it's for a bit more  go forward and bulk. IMHO .

Totally agree, also on heavy grounds the need of a classic 7 is a lot less important.
So we're saying Ashe is a better bet than Holmes?

I think so, he has been a revelation. The idea behind this is to shift Bob Harley to 7. Then Wilson or Eddie could do a job at 6 but Ashe definitely the better bet imo.

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Post by RDW Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:46 pm

VinceWLB wrote:The idea behind this is to shift Bob Harley to 7.


No no no no no no no! warning

I know we're saying this is a one off to combat Toulouse, and that Fozzy is maybe underpowered for their monstrous pack, but we've only just managed to get a national coach who picks the best players in their correct positions and now we're talking about trying to move one of our best players - who has just had a barnsotrming AI series - to an unfamiliar position??

I get what people are saying about a 7 not being so important against Toulouse, but I really don't think we should be going down this route!

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Post by VinceWLB Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:55 pm

To be fair the number behind him would be pretty much anecdotal as he would be asked to do a left/right job and i think this is a good idea to combat Toulouse's heavy pack.

Nothing against Fozzy (made a try saving tackle against Montpellier, had he not been there i think Glasgow would have lost) but Toulouse pack is heavier than Montpellier and we need to go for extra beef for this one imo.

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Post by VinceWLB Tue 02 Dec 2014, 3:58 pm

Just seen that neither Welsh nor Cusack are registered for the comp, don't know how many players can be added to the squad but this should give a good indication as to where Cusack is in his return if he is added.

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Post by MacKnocked-on Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:32 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Just seen that neither Welsh nor Cusack are registered for the comp, don't know how many players can be added to the squad but this should give a good indication as to where Cusack is in his return if he is added.

As Murray won't be playing this Sunday I would hope that Welsh at least is included for the weekend otherwise not sure who'll be the best choice for damage limitation.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 02 Dec 2014, 5:54 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:A lot of our driving maul and lineout defence is dependent on Fozzy, so I hope that he's playing.

What, do they trip over him as they rumble past? laughing
Check out the BT Sport video that Kellock did. If the other side takes the lineout and moves the ball to the back of the group, Glasgow often won't engage (so no maul is formed) and send Fozzy round the back of the cluster to chop down the ball carrier. Seen him do this dozens of times. I cannot see Ashe, Strauss or the Boabster in an openside role.

When has Toonie ever played L/R flank forwards?
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Post by George Carlin Tue 02 Dec 2014, 6:00 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Just seen that neither Welsh nor Cusack are registered for the comp, don't know how many players can be added to the squad but this should give a good indication as to where Cusack is in his return if he is added.

As Murray won't be playing this Sunday I would hope that Welsh at least is included for the weekend otherwise not sure who'll be the best choice for damage limitation.
Welsh gave an interview to the SoS where he said he hoped his display against the Dragons would mean he is selected against Toulouse. So there can't be an eligibility issue there.
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Post by jimbopip Tue 02 Dec 2014, 6:14 pm

I think we might see
6. Tackle Monster
7. Bluto
8. Arthur Ashe.
possibly with Holmes on the bench.
If the Sacred Tombola predicts that les Toulousains will play above ground then the bearded one will do a good job at 7.
I'm slightly more concerned about the 13 berth. The similarities between angel and Richie Vee and then Schlong go no further than they are all rugby players. At the moment we lose so much in attack when Bennett is hors de combat. We could see Downey-Dunbar if Toonie is looking to defend first and last. Or perhaps Dunbar-Hornee if the Tombola whispers that without their first choice half-backs the French are there to be taken. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Dunbar (12) and the world class Mr AP (13).
But let's face it this is Toonie, he'll be telling the lads to come off the field with ne regretted rein.

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Post by TJ Tue 02 Dec 2014, 6:42 pm

I'd rather have the Vernonator at centre than Shlong. Never has a player played with so much heart as Shlong but never has a player had such a great international career with so little talent. Wing or bench for him. He isn't a centre

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 02 Dec 2014, 6:50 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
George Carlin wrote:A lot of our driving maul and lineout defence is dependent on Fozzy, so I hope that he's playing.

What, do they trip over him as they rumble past? laughing
Check out the BT Sport video that Kellock did. If the other side takes the lineout and moves the ball to the back of the group, Glasgow often won't engage (so no maul is formed) and send Fozzy round the back of the cluster to chop down the ball carrier. Seen him do this dozens of times. I cannot see Ashe, Strauss or the Boabster in an openside role.

When has Toonie ever played L/R flank forwards?

So basically the Ruck Inspector now wants to inspect mauls as well. What's next? Tackle inspection?

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Post by jimbopip Tue 02 Dec 2014, 8:01 pm

Fes in Stockbridge men may inspect other men's tackle, willy nilly as they say, but not in Glasgow.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 02 Dec 2014, 9:37 pm

Putting Jimbo's wit to one side, this whole not engaging in mauls business doesn't sit well with me. I watched the Bath vs Quins match the other day and each catch and drive descended into farce, with Wayne Barnes seemingly without a clue what to do. Bath were actually grabbing and pulling Quins players into a maul, with Quins players trying to run away!! Dean Richards must find modern rugby unrecognisable from his days as a player, spent almost exclusively with his socks rolled down on muddy pitches driving at the back of an advancing rolling maul. Still, looks like this whole non pushing thing which Kellock seems keen on is the new fashion.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Wed 03 Dec 2014, 8:28 am

VinceWLB wrote:Just seen that neither Welsh nor Cusack are registered for the comp, don't know how many players can be added to the squad but this should give a good indication as to where Cusack is in his return if he is added.

You can make two (one has to be a front row) changes to your squad during the competition, so I would assume Welsh will come in.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 04 Dec 2014, 7:58 am

It's official now - Jon Welsh registered in place of Murray O'Connell:
http://www.epcrugby.com/europeanrugbychampionscup/news/29603.php

In addition to Luke and Toby, I see that Patricio Albacete and the Hairy Knorr Donkey* may also not play.
We can't say that they aren't giving us every chance.

* All rights reserved to Jonathan Davies
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Post by Manky-Flanker Thu 04 Dec 2014, 8:32 am

George Carlin wrote:Hairy Knorr Donkey* may also not play.
We can't say that they aren't giving us every chance.

* All rights reserved to Jonathan Davies

I think his first attempt was 'Harry-Ordinary' Very Happy


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Post by gelodge Thu 04 Dec 2014, 2:17 pm

Having met a Bath that had to raid its locks & academy to make up a backrow and for some crazy reason chose not to play its international frontrow, then a Montpellier that a week before lost their key player Trinh-Duc and didn't have Ouedraogo or Mowen, and now a double-header against Toulouse who will be missing Flood, McCalister, Harinordoquy & Albacete, I'm starting to think Glasgow might have a Voodoo high priest on their books, and if so can Leinster borrow him?

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Post by highland_scot Thu 04 Dec 2014, 2:19 pm

It's the influence of Mark Bennett, even when injured... He is the Messiah!

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Post by Nematode Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:37 am

ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors B4FrA_hIAAATbfG

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Post by Nematode Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:37 am

Would have preferred Ashe for Wilson.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:38 am

Well I got the starting XV spot on!

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Post by VinceWLB Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:42 am

Toulouse team:
Le XV de départ: Poitrenaud ; Clerc, David, Fickou, Médard ; (o) Doussain, (m) Bézy ; Harinordoquy, Picamoles, Nyanga ; Maestri, Tekori ; Johnston, Flynn, Kakovin.

Les remplaçants: Marchand, Pulu, Tialata, Dusautoir, Maka, Vermaak, Fritz, Huget.

They are there for the taking imo. Also Nyanga plays in the backrow so it's good to start Fusaro.

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Post by VinceWLB Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:44 am

Nematode wrote:Would have preferred Ashe for Wilson.

Same feeling here but overall can't complain much with the team, possibly i would have Downey on the bench instead of Vernon, and DTH somewhere.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:44 am

That is still a monstrous pack with a lot of experience - not sure 'there for the taking' is the best way to describe them! Granted their half backs aren't as strong.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:45 am

Only a couple of Non Qualified players in the starting XV. Not that it means anything big picture, but I wonder if any other team this weekend in the Main Cup competition has less.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:46 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:That is still a monstrous pack with a lot of experience - not sure 'there for the taking' is the best way to describe them! Granted their half backs aren't as strong.

Yes, Toulouse still strong(ish) favs to get the win this weekend.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:54 am

VinceWLB wrote:
Nematode wrote:Would have preferred Ashe for Wilson.

Same feeling here but overall can't complain much with the team, possibly i would have Downey on the bench instead of Vernon, and DTH somewhere.

DTH went off injured last week, so possibly still injured?

Vernon, I suppose covers the wing (at a stretch) and if needed can play back row.

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Dec 2014, 12:04 pm

Ashe was injured the other week as well, maybe he still is. otherwise looks just about our strongest available team. A vote of confidence for Peter Horne, who has looked a little shaky at times this year, but he gets the nod over SL, who maybe dropped one to many balls last week.

A massive task ahead though, rumours of a weak Toulouse side seem much exagerated, other than the half backs they look very strong, with an excellent bench as well. They have blown hot and cold this year though and some of those big lads won't fancy playing at Glasgow's tempo for 80 mins. A point would be good, anything else a bonus. I think we can get something from this game.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Fri 05 Dec 2014, 12:18 pm

Ashe is listed as injured.

Just checked and DTH is not listed so just misses out on selection. Think its slipped under the radar slightly but I don't think he playing that well this season. He's not been awful, just not playing at his usual standards.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 05 Dec 2014, 12:37 pm

Glasgow Warriors team to play Toulouse, European Rugby Champions Cup, Stade Ernest-Wallon, Sunday 7 December (kick-off 4.15pm local time) - live on BT Sport Extra:

15. Stuart Hogg
14. Sean Maitland
13. Alex Dunbar
12. Peter Horne
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
9. Henry Pyrgos

1. Ryan Grant
2. Pat MacArthur
3. Jon Welsh
4. Leone Nakarawa
5. Jonny Gray
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss (Captain)

Replacements

16. Fraser Brown
17. Gordon Reid
18. Rossouw de Klerk
19. Tim Swinson
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon

Good team selection.

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Post by IanBru Fri 05 Dec 2014, 1:40 pm

That's the best 23 players we can put out except, perhaps, for Richie V8 deputizing for Sean 'Utility Back' Lamont.

Suffice it to say I'm happy, and looking for a real performance after some slack stuff in November.
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Post by Nematode Fri 05 Dec 2014, 1:52 pm

The next 3 games are huge for Glasgow, probably carrying the most pressure for GT so far in his run as head coach. Win 3 and Glasgow will surely qualify for Heineken and cement their place in the Rabo. Lose them all and Heineken hopes are surely scuppered and a real loss in momentum in the Rabo.

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ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors Empty Re: ERCC: Pool 4, Round 3 - Toulouse v Glasgow Warriors

Post by George Carlin Fri 05 Dec 2014, 3:49 pm

Yes, I think there's been a bit of press gamesmanship from Noves in suggesting that Picachew and the HKD would not be fit - both of them are starting.

A dodgy halfback combo and one of their main props missing is about the only thing wrong with this Toulouse side. Their back 5 are absolutely sparkling - I forgot that they had Gael Fickou, for example.

Still - we need to measure where we are as a European side. This will do it.
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Post by VinceWLB Fri 05 Dec 2014, 3:59 pm

What i meant is they are no Toulon or Clermont and without the likes of McAllister, Steenkamp, Albacete.. i don't think that team is better than the Montpellier team Glasgow beat in october.

Doussain isn't a great player at all and their replacement front row is pretty poor.

If Glasgow has any ambition in this cup they should aim for a win and not settle for some kind of bonus point.


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Post by TJ Sat 06 Dec 2014, 11:03 pm

Oh indeed. Glasgow can win this and should win it. If they want to be teaken seriously as a great european club then these are the games they need to win. I would have them as favourites myself.

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Post by George Carlin Sun 07 Dec 2014, 7:21 am

TJ wrote:Oh indeed.  Glasgow can win this and should win it.  If they want to be teaken seriously as a great european club then these are the games they need to win.  I would have them as favourites myself.
+1 and again, I go back to looking at the rationale for this.

Just compare the team that won in 2009 to our current matchday 23:

2014/2009

Stuart Hogg 15 Bernardo Stortoni
Sean Maitland 14 Jose Maria Nunez Piossek
Alex Dunbar 13 Max Evans
Peter Horne 12 Graeme Morrison
Tommy Seymour 11 Thom Evans
Finn Russell 10 Ruaridh Jackson
Henry Pyrgos 09 Colin Gregor

Josh Strauss 08 Kelly Brown
Chris Fusaro 07 John Barclay
Rob Harley 06 James Eddie
Jonny Gray 05 Alastair Kellock (c)
Leone Nakarawa 04 Dan Turner
Jon Welsh 03 Moray Low
Pat MacArthur 02 Dougie Hall
Ryan Grant 01 Justin Va'a

Fraser Brown 16 Fergus Thomson
Gordon Reid/Rossouw de Klerk 17 Ed Kalman
Tim Swinson 18 Richie Vernon
Ryan Wilson 19 Johnnie Beattie
Niko Matawalu 20 Dan Parks
Duncan Weir 21 Andrew Henderson
Richie Vernon 22 Hefin O'Hare

I think that in terms of a man-for-man comparison, only at 7 and 19 are we weaker in 2014 than we were in 2009.

In all other cases across the 22/23, we are at least as strong or stronger now.
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Post by RDW Sun 07 Dec 2014, 8:37 am

Who the hell was Jose Maria Nunez Piossek??

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