Ospreys v Dragons

Seeing as there's no match thread:

Ospreys: Dan Evans; Richard Fussell, Ashley Beck, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Duncan Jones, Sam Parry, Dmitri Arhip, James King, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Tyler Ardron.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Gareth Thomas. Aaron Jarvis, Rynier Bernardo, Sam Lewis, Martin Roberts, Sam Davies, Hanno Dirksen.

Newport Gwent Dragons: Tom Prydie; Matthew Pewtner, Tyler Morgan, Jack Dixon, Hallam Amos; Jason Tovey, Jonathan Evans; Phil Price, Elliot Dee, Brok Harris, Andrew Coombs, Rynard Landman (capt), Lewis Evans, Nic Cudd, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Rhys Buckley, Owen Evans, Lloyd Fairbrother, Matthew Screech, James Thomas, Richie Rees, Dorian Jones, Geraint Rhys Jones.

Referee: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)

Assistant Referees: Nigel Owens, Martyn Lewis (both WRU)

Citing Commissioner: Dennis Jones (WRU)

TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30720392

(On a side note, this is the second time (the first was Dragons v Blues on New Year's Day) that the BBC hasn't felt it necessary to provide any comments from the Dragons camp in its match preview. I could swear there are two sides playing...)

That O's scrum completely got destroyed!

The S4C English language commentator is rubbish, he keeps getting everyone's names wrong

This is a pretty dull game for the neutral to be fair

This is the worst, lowest skill game I've ever seen. Ever.

Pretty boring game for a neutral :/

19-11 up with 2-3 minutes left and the Ospreys go for a goal kick, just shows the negativity of this match.

Higher_Ground wrote:This is the worst, lowest skill game I've ever seen. Ever.

I've seen way worse skilled games,

but this one was far from a classic

I'm saying here when it's good advert for the league but that was beyond terrible with a very poor ref who was consistently getting it wrong at scrum time. Terrible advert for the league.

From a Dragons point of view they were not hammered and were on top in the early scrums and defended well. Shame they did not start with Rees. The Ospreys must add some bulk into the second row but Lydiate is starting to improve not sure he will start when all the injured players come back.

Not a great game not helped by the conditions affecting most games. Dragons showing progress and must improve against non Welsh opposition.

Alun,

Who do they Os have better than Lydiate currently out injured?

Just back, to add a small bit to what has already been said, that was one of the worst games skill wise I've ever seen down at the Liberty, there was a new family of 4 sitting near me, they left over 5 minutes before the end and said they wouldn't be back especially because of the refereeing standard.

The refs over the recent bout of Derby games have been shockingly poor something surely has to be done as its getting far to frequent now where their decisions are ruining games.

That said for what its worth I don't think we ever really looked like winning that game, if Prydie had hit the missed shots it might have made the scoreline more closer and given us a losing bp but our back play of late if really bad.

I wish we would start Rees more than we do and I think most all Dragon fans were hoping Byrne and Brew could add that much needed experience we are lacking in the backs but unfortunately neither have done that much.

bedfordwelsh wrote:The refs over the recent bout of Derby games have been shockingly poor something surely has to be done as its getting far to frequent now where their decisions are ruining games.

That said for what its worth I don't think we ever really looked like winning that game, if Prydie had hit the missed shots it might have made the scoreline more closer and given us a losing bp but our back play of late if really bad.

I wish we would start Rees more than we do and I think most all Dragon fans were hoping Byrne and Brew could add that much needed experience we are lacking in the backs but unfortunately neither have done that much.

Bedford as far as the Refs are concerned, yes some are abysmal including todays, yet they are NOT helped by the inadequacies of some of their officials, there were 2 occasions in the first half and Dixon was standing in line in the MIDDLE of a ruck and I and a few others was SCREAMING at the TJ to do something about it, either he didn't or the Ref ignored him, it is NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Wayne,

I agree and when I say refs I include the whole party, refs, TJs and even the 4th official for that particular game they are a team and should help each other out as and when necessary.

We'll that was cold. Poor game overall altho the dragons played well with the ball in hand. God knows what decisions the ref was making. Baldwins yellow anyone? Jarvis secured the Os scrum but we were second best again. I don't know if he's told but why does Webb box kick so much ball away? We'll raise our game next week but it'll still be comfy win for the Saints...

Not a great match

The Ospreys have to play a hell of a lot better to avoid humiliation at the hands of George North again next week.

There will be some sore backsides after the arse kicking they'll get this week in training.

bedfordwelsh wrote:The refs over the recent bout of Derby games have been shockingly poor something surely has to be done as its getting far to frequent now where their decisions are ruining games.

All the games I watched this weekend I paid particular attention to the refs given recent discussions. I have seen NO mistakes of any significance and certainly no mistakes that ruined games

TJ wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:The refs over the recent bout of Derby games have been shockingly poor something surely has to be done as its getting far to frequent now where their decisions are ruining games.

All the games I watched this weekend I paid particular attention to the refs given recent discussions.  I have seen NO mistakes of any significance and certainly no mistakes that ruined games

TJ, I admire your constant defending of everything to do with our League, but as far as defending the officiating standards, you are acting like Canute, if you watch the Blues Leinster game, each of the cards that were finally issued were warranted, but in the first place and even when he was seen watching the large screens so therefore had a better view than the TMO, he was going to give a Yellow to Hoeata and a penalty to Leinster for Vosawai's challenge the TMO had to persuade him on both occasions to give the right decision. In our game yesterday, the officiating was abysmal, the offside law was flouted terribly, when the scrums were collapsing and they did a lot, the 3 officials were totally flummoxed, in the 2nd half Owens was coming onto the field about 10 yards to see what was going on and even then they weren't making a decision. Jiffy was on scrum 5 last night and he said there should have been Yellow cards issued early in the game and none of it would have continued. I was sitting by a family who had come for the first time and they left about 5 minutes before the end of the game vowing not to return, primarily because of the Refereeing standard, there are only 2 IMO decent Referees who have any empathy for the game officiating in the Guinness League and that is Owens and Lacey, and as Jiffy said last night NEITHER were Reffing this weekend, he said in the French and English Leagues the best Refs officiate EVERY weekend.

Sorry Wayne - I completely disagree with you . I watched this game and watched the actions of the ref closely and saw nothing that you mention at all. The hyperbole with which some folk attack refs is appalling.

Even you admit Owens - perhaps the best ref in the world - could not tell who was cheating at the scrum.

Its the players who cheat. The refs simply cannot see everyting - ( much dscussing in the past over the policing of offside) and I suggest you watch the game again.

TJ wrote:Sorry Wayne - I completely disagree with you .  I watched this game and watched the actions of the ref closely and saw nothing that you mention at all.  The hyperbole with which some folk attack refs is appalling.

Even you admit Owens - perhaps the best ref in the world - could not tell who was cheating at the scrum.

Its the players who cheat.  The refs simply cannot see everyting - ( much dscussing in the past over the policing of offside) and I suggest you watch the game again.

TJ, I do not need to watch the game again, you can plainly see on Sky Pratterson and the other official standing together watching the big screen and in Hoeata's card he is heard quite plainly saying I think it is a yellow and the TMO saying you need to see another angle and IIRC there was shown about 5 different angles with some shown more than once and the TMO saying it should be a red.
As far as Owens is concerned yes he is one of the best, and all they had to do was issue Yellow cards and the problems would have stopped or Red cards would have been issued, as far as the offsides were concerned, I sit at practically ground level about 3 Rows back and could see right along the line same as the TJ and on more than one occasion the Dragons 12 was in line with the middle of the ruck, clearly offside and on each occasion the TJ on my side of the pitch was in line with said player, Ishouted at him to do his job, which either he did not or Phillips ignored him, either is shameful.

Time for orange cards=20 min in the bin imo, Hoeata's case is a classic example of a red card being too harsh and a yellow probably not severe enough.

You see your first part is exactly how the TMO should work. Correct reffing. The TMO is there to advise the ref as to the offence and the sanction which is what he did. Nothing wrong with that at all. So actually the correct decision was made after the correct process was used. NO reffing mistake there

I am sure if you watched it again on the telly when you are not caught up in the emotion of the moment you will understand what you saw as mistakes at the time you will now understand what happened.

Offisides are missed all the time - its a real problem but is nothing to do with poor reffing.

TJ wrote:You see your first part is exactly how the TMO should work.  Correct reffing.  The TMO is there to advise the ref as to the offence and the sanction which is what he did.  Nothing wrong with that at all.  So actually the correct decision  was made after the correct process was used.  NO reffing mistake there

I am sure if you watched it again on the telly when you are not caught up in the emotion of the moment you will understand what you saw as mistakes at the time you will now understand what happened.

Offisides are missed all the time - its a real problem but is nothing to do with poor reffing.

Sorry TJ, in a game that I have very little interest in, and you tell me not to get caught up in the emotion of, Patterson would have got both instances wrong, even though he was watching it on a large screen pitchside with a TJ by the side of him, as far as the offsides, what can't you understand that I and the TJ are in line with the offence and if I can see the offence and I and a few others are shouting at him to do his job, let me also add we were not squeky clean, the Os got away with stuff that shouldn't have happened, at least Owen would have done something about it and he was trying to get as close to the scrums without totally interfering, if yellow cards had been issued to both our 3 and their 1 half way through the first half as was warranted, this match could have been half decent, because of their inefficiencies 4 supporters that could have been snapped up are now lost to us.

VinceWLB wrote:Time for orange cards=20 min in the bin imo, Hoeata's case is a classic example of a red card being too harsh and a yellow probably not severe enough.

Chase the Ace anyone? Shuffle those cards referee!

VinceWLB wrote:Time for orange cards=20 min in the bin imo, Hoeata's case is a classic example of a red card being too harsh and a yellow probably not severe enough.

Vince, IMO the right decision was arrived at, his arm was swinging and it was high, when watching I said RED straight away, I didn't pick up on Vosawai as quickly, yet when I saw it in replay I thought a yellow was justified.

Yes Wayne, the red card is definitely justified and Hammett didn't complain about it, however i don't think 100% of the refs would have issued a red, take Nigel i think he would have given a yellow. Actually, as bad as it looked i don't remember a red card being issued for a high tackle in the league.

Wayne - the point is that the correct decision was made by the reffing team after the correct process was followed. thus there is no mistake at all. Its you who fail to understand how the reffing team works.

You even admit the yellow was right after you saw the replay.

wayne wrote:

TJ wrote:Sorry Wayne - I completely disagree with you .  I watched this game and watched the actions of the ref closely and saw nothing that you mention at all.  The hyperbole with which some folk attack refs is appalling.

Even you admit Owens - perhaps the best ref in the world - could not tell who was cheating at the scrum.

Its the players who cheat.  The refs simply cannot see everyting - ( much dscussing in the past over the policing of offside) and I suggest you watch the game again.

TJ, I do not need to watch the game again, you can plainly see on Sky Pratterson and the other official standing together watching the big screen and in Hoeata's card he is heard quite plainly saying I think it is a yellow and the TMO saying you need to see another angle and IIRC there was shown about 5 different angles with some shown more than once and the TMO saying it should be a red.
As far as Owens is concerned yes he is one of the best, and all they had to do was issue Yellow cards and the problems would have stopped or Red cards would have been issued, as far as the offsides were concerned, I sit at practically ground level about 3 Rows back and could see right along the line same as the TJ and on more than one occasion the Dragons 12 was in line with the middle of the ruck, clearly offside and on each occasion the TJ on my side of the pitch was in line with said player, Ishouted at him to do his job, which either he did not or Phillips ignored him, either is shameful.  

After that, it must have simply been adding insult to injury to see Tipuric get away with slipping on an imaginary banana peel every time he got near a ruck, Wayne. I can understand how you can barely bare to mention this staggering display of refereeing incompetence in your analysis.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Time for orange cards=20 min in the bin imo, Hoeata's case is a classic example of a red card being too harsh and a yellow probably not severe enough.

Chase the Ace anyone? Shuffle those cards referee!

What about a 'Joker' card: at a time of the refs choosing he can pull out the joker card and send any player he chooses to the sin bin for 15 minutes, just for 'fun'. The player needs to wear a jester hat for the 15 mins on the sidelines. That should open up a few of those dull bosh, bash, bosh games where teams struggle to find gaps in the defensive line!

I think a lot of refs are afraid to issue cards to early in the game which for me is bollards. If there is an instance which warrants a card be it the first or last minute then issue it.

In the case of early cards the ref does set his stall out and as long as he then shows consistency (big issue here I know) throughout the game then so be it.

Stone Motif wrote:

wayne wrote:

TJ wrote:Sorry Wayne - I completely disagree with you .  I watched this game and watched the actions of the ref closely and saw nothing that you mention at all.  The hyperbole with which some folk attack refs is appalling.

Even you admit Owens - perhaps the best ref in the world - could not tell who was cheating at the scrum.

Its the players who cheat.  The refs simply cannot see everyting - ( much dscussing in the past over the policing of offside) and I suggest you watch the game again.

TJ, I do not need to watch the game again, you can plainly see on Sky Pratterson and the other official standing together watching the big screen and in Hoeata's card he is heard quite plainly saying I think it is a yellow and the TMO saying you need to see another angle and IIRC there was shown about 5 different angles with some shown more than once and the TMO saying it should be a red.
As far as Owens is concerned yes he is one of the best, and all they had to do was issue Yellow cards and the problems would have stopped or Red cards would have been issued, as far as the offsides were concerned, I sit at practically ground level about 3 Rows back and could see right along the line same as the TJ and on more than one occasion the Dragons 12 was in line with the middle of the ruck, clearly offside and on each occasion the TJ on my side of the pitch was in line with said player, Ishouted at him to do his job, which either he did not or Phillips ignored him, either is shameful.  

After that, it must have simply been adding insult to injury to see Tipuric get away with slipping on an imaginary banana peel every time he got near a ruck, Wayne.  I can understand how you can barely bare to mention this staggering display of refereeing incompetence in your analysis.

Stone, I said in one of the posts that we got away with stuff, that we shouldn't have, as for Tipuric falling, do you mean where he was taking Cudd out of the ruck situation, at practically every time, and lets hopefully forever banish the thought that he (Cudd) is anywhere near International standard, as when he came up against a decent back row, his contribution was meaningless.

wayne wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

wayne wrote:

TJ wrote:Sorry Wayne - I completely disagree with you .  I watched this game and watched the actions of the ref closely and saw nothing that you mention at all.  The hyperbole with which some folk attack refs is appalling.

Even you admit Owens - perhaps the best ref in the world - could not tell who was cheating at the scrum.

Its the players who cheat.  The refs simply cannot see everyting - ( much dscussing in the past over the policing of offside) and I suggest you watch the game again.

TJ, I do not need to watch the game again, you can plainly see on Sky Pratterson and the other official standing together watching the big screen and in Hoeata's card he is heard quite plainly saying I think it is a yellow and the TMO saying you need to see another angle and IIRC there was shown about 5 different angles with some shown more than once and the TMO saying it should be a red.
As far as Owens is concerned yes he is one of the best, and all they had to do was issue Yellow cards and the problems would have stopped or Red cards would have been issued, as far as the offsides were concerned, I sit at practically ground level about 3 Rows back and could see right along the line same as the TJ and on more than one occasion the Dragons 12 was in line with the middle of the ruck, clearly offside and on each occasion the TJ on my side of the pitch was in line with said player, Ishouted at him to do his job, which either he did not or Phillips ignored him, either is shameful.  

After that, it must have simply been adding insult to injury to see Tipuric get away with slipping on an imaginary banana peel every time he got near a ruck, Wayne.  I can understand how you can barely bare to mention this staggering display of refereeing incompetence in your analysis.

Stone, I said in one of the posts that we got away with stuff, that we shouldn't have, as for Tipuric falling, do you mean where he was taking Cudd out of the ruck situation, at practically every time, and lets hopefully forever banish the thought that he (Cudd) is anywhere near International standard, as when he came up against a decent back row, his contribution was meaningless.

Yes. Illegally.

Let's see how Tipuric goes against a decent back row this weekend shall we? Show pony player, at least Cudd tries (for the record Cudd is by no means an international and I would prefer us to be playing Scott Matthews or James Benjamin a lot more)

Stone ive been told Scott Matthews isnt getting a look in by the Dragons until his fitness is improved and some weight is lost. He is only on a 1 year contract but the likes of Nightingale and obrien are both on 4 year contracts which shows what the coaching team think of him. Shame because he looked decent

bedfordwelsh wrote:Alun,

Who do they Os have better than Lydiate currently out injured?

Hi Bed,
I must admit Lydiate had a good game against the Dragons but in previous game he did very little from his usual chop tackle and little else. It is noticable they are not playing as well as as early season with Baker at 8, Tipuric at 7 and king/Bearman/Lewis at 6 and no back row player in the second row (KING). I think it is a good move for Wales and Lydiate.

glamorganalun wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Alun,

Who do they Os have better than Lydiate currently out injured?

Hi Bed,
I must admit Lydiate had a good game against the Dragons but in previous game he did very little from his usual chop tackle and little else. It is noticable they are not playing as well as as early season with Baker at 8, Tipuric at 7 and king/Bearman/Lewis at 6 and no back row player in the second row (KING). I think it is a good move for Wales and Lydiate.

alun,

I think Baker was in cracking form and maybe that's the difference though Adron is going well, with regards to Lydiate he does what he does and is very good at it though he carried a fair bit on the weekend. Bearman is more of a 'dog' of a 6 I guess but I wouldn't put King or Lewis in same league as Dan. That said it's all about combinations and how players play/link together.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Alun,

Who do they Os have better than Lydiate currently out injured?

Hi Bed,
I must admit Lydiate had a good game against the Dragons but in previous game he did very little from his usual chop tackle and little else. It is noticable they are not playing as well as as early season with Baker at 8, Tipuric at 7 and king/Bearman/Lewis at 6 and no back row player in the second row (KING). I think it is a good move for Wales and Lydiate.

alun,

I think Baker was in cracking form and maybe that's the difference though Adron is going well, with regards to Lydiate he does what he does and is very good at it though he carried a fair bit on the weekend.  Bearman is more of a 'dog' of a 6 I guess but I wouldn't put King or Lewis in same league as Dan.  That said it's all about combinations and how players play/link together.

Boys, Bearman is 35 if we hadn't had our crippling back row injury list it is doubtful that he would have had any team experience in meaningful games, he might have played in the LV for experience with a host of youngsters, as for King and Lewis, Lewis has played 6 on a few occasions, but he is Tipuric's understudy primarily, as for King we would have to disagree as for me, up until Sunday King was a much better fit for our system than Dan had shown in the past, this started to change with Dan's contribution in many facets of play, not just tackling, carrying and lineout work was much improved, also I said a few weeks ago on here that King was very upset that Dan had been signed, and he had had a meeting with the coaches and was told very firmly that he has to bulk up and would primarily be thought of as a second row option.