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Top 25 players of the 6 Nations era

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:32 pm

Just to distract from arguments about roofs, strength in depth and how much people would like to weld Gatland's mouth shut, The Guardian has posted (another completely subjective, probably nonsensical list) of its top 25 players of the 6 Nations, i.e. the last 15 years or so

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/ng-interactive/2015/feb/05/the-guardians-top-25-six-nations-players-interactive

For anyone who can't open the link:

Welcome to the Guardian’s top 25 players of the Six Nations era. We asked our panel of seven rugby experts to choose their 25 best performers and rank them in order from 1-25. We then collated their votes to produce our overall list.

Judges: Accenture Analytics, Robert Kitson, Eddie Butler, Paul Rees, Mike Averis, Michael Aylwin, Ian Malin.

1. Brian O'Driscoll
2. Martin Johnson
3. Paul O'Connell
4. Sergio Parisse
5. Jonny Wilkinson
6. Richard Hill
7. Shane Williams
8. Keith Wood
9. Jason Robinson
10. Adam Jones
11. Lawrence Dallaglio
12. Will Greenwood
13. Martyn Williams
14. Alun Wyn Jones
15. Yannick Jauzion
16. Jonathan Sexton
17. Gethin Jenkins
18. Ronan O'Gara
19. Imanol Harinordoquy
20. Leigh Halfpenny
21. Serge Betsen
22. Raphael Ibanez
23. Gregor Townsend
24. Diego Dominguez
25. Thierry Dusatoir

Thoughts?

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Post by LordDowlais Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:40 pm

Where is Fabein Pelous ? Also you could put the whole England pack from 2003, was it the 6N then ? No Scott Quinell either.

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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:42 pm

A quick scan of a limited list and yep, all the usual suspects seem to be present. Couldn't quibble much.

I suppose I'd have Maxine Medard in there on a personal voting level.

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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:05 pm

On a closer scan .....Morgan Parra is missing too?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...maybe this list IS becoming suspect afterall Wink

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Post by Stewie15 Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:11 pm

If it's just based on the 6 nations, how many games did Gregor Townsend play?

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Post by rodders Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:54 pm

I think Jonno and Wood are too high - a lot of the Welsh guys who won 3-4 titles should be higher - Ryan Jones, Stephen Jones, Gareth Thomas, Lee Byrne, Roberts, Phillips...

ROG should be higher.... Gordon D'arcy a 2 time player of the championship not there - Tommy Bowe would be there for me too as would..  that French winger who wrecked Irelands slam in '07... no phil vickery or Gavin Henson...
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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:56 pm

.... it's 25 for fecks sake rodders! Wink

The 1,025 list is over on another thread. Vickery is 1,020 on it.

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Post by rodders Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:59 pm

No Sam Warburton 2 time winner and Lions captain.

What a crock.
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Post by rodders Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:00 pm

Rob Howley! what have these guys got against Wales!
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Post by GunsGerms Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:03 pm

rodders wrote:No Sam Warburton 2 time winner and Lions captain.

What a crock.

Warburton is a crock himself thats the problem. Yo-yo form and lots of injuries.

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:07 pm

I reckon a fair few of these had their best years in the 5 Nations, but there are so many players who could be in

From an English perspective Josh Lewsey would be the stand out player missing for me

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Post by whocares Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:14 pm

rodders wrote:I think Jonno and Wood are too high - a lot of the Welsh guys who won 3-4 titles should be higher - Ryan Jones, Stephen Jones, Gareth Thomas, Lee Byrne, Roberts, Phillips...

ROG should be higher.... Gordon D'arcy a 2 time player of the championship not there - Tommy Bowe would be there for me too as would..  that French winger who wrecked Irelands slam in '07... no phil vickery or Gavin Henson...

Vincent Clerc? he always seems to score against ireland... 11 tries in 31 6N games. top 25 is difficult since there is so many good players that have graced that championship. nothing agaisnt parisse but he shouldnt be near the top imo.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:17 pm

What about Diego Dominguez, surely he is worth a shout.

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:17 pm

He's there!

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Post by Biltong Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:18 pm

Cool, another top something list.

These journalists must have nothing better to do, eh?
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Post by LordDowlais Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:19 pm

BamBam wrote:He's there!

Ooops. Doh

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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:22 pm

Biltong wrote:Cool, another top something list.

These journalists must have nothing better to do, eh?

Top Ten Rugby Journalist List:



Em........................ you're immediately disqualified from list if you've ever initiated or contributed to any Player top 10, 25 or 100 lists.

So let's get started.....................

em......................

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:24 pm

*Gets coat*

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Post by LordDowlais Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:25 pm

Anyway, what about a player for each position since it was the 6N. You would have to consider the English pack from 2003, but I would have put Keith Wood and Scott Quinell instead of the English counterparts, and I would have Howley at scrum half, and Johny at 10. After that is becomes a bit of a thinker. Greenwood and O'Driscoll in the centers, Shane Williams and Jason Robinson on the wings, and Leigh Byrne at fullback.Subs would be Dallaglio, Hickie, Patterson, Adam Jones, Gethin Jenkins, Ronan O'Gara, Paul O'Connell.

Anyone else care for a go ?

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:32 pm

I'll give it a go, feel free to tear it a new one

1. Gethin
2. Wood
3. Mas
4. Johnson
5. O'Connell
6. Hill
7. Betsen
8. Dallaglio
9. Yachvili
10. Wilkinson
11. Williams
12. Greenwood
13. BOD
14. Robinson
15. Lewsey

Bench - Thompson, Domingo, Jones, Pelous, Harinordoquy, Howley, O'Gara, Jauzion

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:37 pm

Does it say a lot about the style of rugby we play in the 6N that only 3 of the top 25 listed in the OP are back 3 players?


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Post by beshocked Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:03 pm

So that's

6 English
6 Welsh
5 French
5 Irish
2 Italians
1 Scot

Parisse - 4th really?

Harinorduquy should be higher - he has five 6 nations titles (3 being grandslams).

Should have been named player of the 2010 tournament - I feel like he was unfairly robbed of the honour because the French vote was split by 4 nominees.

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Post by GunsGerms Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:05 pm

Parisse is a freakishly talented player. I have no issue with 4th for him. He can literally do anything.

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Post by beshocked Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:22 pm

Gunsgerms you're entitled to your opinion that's fair enough.

Personally I think Dallaglio and Harinorduquy have been superior no 8s. Both Dusatoir and Hill as superior backrowers than Parisse.

Would rate Parisse above Martyn Williams and Betsen though.

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Post by GunsGerms Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:25 pm

Dallaglio wasnt around anywhere near as long in the 6 nations as Parisse though. I am a Dallaglio fan but I think Parisse shades it. Harinordiquoy had a short enough career at the top.

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Post by beshocked Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:32 pm

Fair enough point about Dallaglio.

Harinorduquy? Short enough career? Over 80 caps is short? He has as many if not more 6 nations titles than anyone on the list. He's been a talisman of France. In my opinion he also inspired France to the 2011 RWC final as well as helped France win 5 6 nations titles.

One of the most underrated no 8s around.



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Post by Notch Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:33 pm

Biltong wrote:Cool, another top something list.

These journalists must have nothing better to do, eh?

We are truly living in the golden age of list based journalism.
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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:49 pm

To be fair (God, I detest that word in all its manifestations now!)  but to Be fair, I think the journalists learned the list gig from us social networking eejits on the forums.

There was a time not so long ago, in the golden age of Rugby forumdom back in the noughties, when anything that moved in rugby terms was slotted into a 'Best' list.

Best scrumhalves who never played in that position

Best players at rolling out of nightclubs with one girl on one arm and their friend's wife on another

Best players that might have been Best Lions if they had been good enough even to make the Best Top 10 players who might have been good Academy players had they not never played rugby in the first place and are fishermen now in the North sea.

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Post by Bathman_in_London Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:49 pm

Lists, '5 things we have learnt about ...', 'What type of ... are you', 'Here's what social media has to say'. Modern journalism at its best.

A thought on this list, given that France have won the 6N more than anyone else you could expect a Frenchman to be higher than 15th? Not sure if that reflects an Anglo-speaking-centric panel or successive French coaches changing their team every week.

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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:10 pm

Anglo-Welsh Centric Hegemony.

Okay...okay then..................... but the Revolution is coming!  You've been warned.

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Post by theslosty Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:12 pm

Decent enough list. From an Irish perspective I'd throw in David Wallace, unerring excellence for an entire decade.
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Post by SecretFly Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:16 pm

We'd all throw a few in.... but then you'd have to throw a few out...................

Where's the evil laugh emoticon????

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Post by beshocked Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:31 pm

bathman in london which is why I keep on mentioning Harinorduquy.

Dusatoir would also be higher.

Think Sexton is far too high.

Wouldn't have Dominguez or Townsend - they just seem like tokenism to boost Scottish and Italian representation.

1.Jenkins
2.Wood
3.Jones
4.Johnson
5.Jones
6.Hill
7.Dusatoir
8.Harinorduquy

9.Yachvili
10.Wilkinson
11.Ickle Shane
12.Greenwood
13.BOD
14.Robinson
15.Lewsey

6 English
4 Welsh
3 French
2 Irish

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:34 pm

Another one I thought of while doing this was Olivier Magne, what a player he could be on his day

Beshocked, even the most ardent Welshman would struggle to put AWJ in over O'Connell!

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Post by beshocked Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:40 pm

O Connell is great agreed but Alun Wyn Jones has been an important cog for Wales in the engine room though and the Welsh need some recognition of their grandslams!

Not sure that Welshman would struggle to pick their countrymen!

An all time 6 nations XV from Welsh fans would surely be chock full of Welsh players? Wink

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Post by LordDowlais Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:55 pm

beshocked wrote:An all time 6 nations XV from Welsh fans would surely be chock full of Welsh players?

For me it hard to look past the English pack from th 2001-2003 era, I do not think we will see a better one, ever. So that could very well be eight of your fifteen there. But then you could have players like Gareth Thomas, Scott Gibbs, Mark Taylor, Ryan Jones, Scott Quinell, Dwayne Peel, Micheal Phillips( love him or hate him) from Wales, or Keith Woods, Peter Clohessy, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Dennis Hickie from Ireland, there are so many. Dare i say it, people will always pick their faourites.

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Post by BamBam Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Very true, if I picked it based on my favourite players, it would look something like

Domingo, Thompson, Mas, Johnson, Shaw, Hill, Magne, Picamoles, Care, Wilko, Williams, Greenwood, BOD, Robinson, Lewsey

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Post by LondonTiger Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:28 pm

Martin Johnson is one of, if not the, best players ever to appear for England. However putting someone who appeared in just 3 6Ns tournaments at number 2 is crazy.

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:41 pm

No Serge Blanco, Saint Andre Both Rory and Tony Underwood?

There is a lot of players being missed out in these threads.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:04 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:No Serge Blanco, Saint Andre Both Rory and Tony Underwood?

There is a lot of players being missed out in these threads.

This is purely 6Ns. Not sure any of those may have ever played in it.

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Post by majesticimperialman Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:15 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:No Serge Blanco, Saint Andre Both Rory and Tony Underwood?

There is a lot of players being missed out in these threads.

This is purely 6Ns. Not sure any of those may have ever played in it.

Probably not to be honest.

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Post by FecklessRogue Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:22 pm

Big Phil Vickery has a few more 6 Nations Championships in him yet, to move up that list. I wouldn't bet against him.
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Post by The Saint Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:54 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
rodders wrote:No Sam Warburton 2 time winner and Lions captain.

What a crock.

Warburton is a crock himself thats the problem. Yo-yo form and lots of injuries.

The guardian didn't want to give you Irish any more reason to send Twitter death threats to Welsh players.

Also Keith Wood must be feeling pretty miffed to see a Welsh player ahead of him.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:18 pm

I give you........ John Hayes.

Enough said.
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Post by TJ Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:47 pm

Stewie15 wrote:If it's just based on the 6 nations, how many games did Gregor Townsend play?

They had to find a scot to put in there - and his was the only name they could remember

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Post by SecretFly Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:38 am

The Saint wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
rodders wrote:No Sam Warburton 2 time winner and Lions captain.

What a crock.

Warburton is a crock himself thats the problem. Yo-yo form and lots of injuries.

The guardian didn't want to give you Irish any more reason to send Twitter death threats to Welsh players.

Also Keith Wood must be feeling pretty miffed to see a Welsh player ahead of him.

No...no, not in the Guardian. To be expected. Can't have a few savagonian Irish mercenaries from the Westh taking the sheen off Ye Olde England v Wales 6 Nation myths'n'legends

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Post by Nachos Jones Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:47 pm

Even as an Irishman, I am surprised not to see Lewis Moody's name in the top 25. He was one player I really hated seeing in the starting line-up against Ireland, a proper menace and hell of a player.

Surprised to see Keith Woods in there as well.

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Post by BamBam Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:57 pm

He was one I was going to stick in as a bench player on my best 23, but thought I'd be shot down for being biased and stuck a Frenchie in!

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Post by SecretFly Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:13 pm

Lewis moody, the smiling assassin

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