NXT Takeover Rival Results - Spoilers ahead

WWE NXT TakeOver: Rival airs tonight from 12:30am Preshow - 1am - Matches start

NXT Title - Sami Zayn vs Kevin Owens
Number One Contender's Match: Adrian Neville vs Finn Balor
Hideo Itami vs Tyler Breeze.
Baron Corbin vs Bull Dempsey - No DQ
Buddy Murphy & Wesley Blake VSLucha Dragons
NXT Women's title will feature Charlotte vs Bayley vs Sasha Banks vs Becky Lynch.

So what do people think will happen tonight?

Hard to call the title match, think Owens might nick the belt from him eventually but seems early for a loss. Hes losing the title if they want him main roster before/around Mania.

Neville also on a loser before call up
Itami will get a solid early win
Has to be Corbin, he beat him so easily before. Either that or some form of teamwork from an unknown source to help Dempsey
Retain, although the death of the Lucha Dragons saddens me
Hope we can BankOnIt

I suspect the title match will be a DQ or countout finish, either Owens is DQ'd or Zayn is counted out.... I can't see this ending cleaning, and I can't see Owens coming out with the belt, it's a little early in the fued.

Balor is on fire since debuting and I can't see him losing to Neville who should be called up soon

Itami needs a win here I suspect and the wheels seem to have come of Breeze just lately

Corbin every day will win here

I like the Lucha Dragons but I supsect a retain here

and I think it's time for Sasha to win the title and maybe a call up for Flair?

BankOnIt. Im on a winner with all of them so far.

Owens next please

BOOM

That's how you book a bulldozing "heel"

Full Results

HIDEO ITAMI vs. TYLER BREEZE

A “random female fan” jumps on Breeze during his entrance, until security grabs her and escorts her out. Definitely looked like a plant.

Itami hits a running knee in the corner and Breeze takes a breather on the floor. He rolls back in and takes a dropkick, several kicks, but escapes to the apron to avoid another running knee. Tyler attacks the knee and goes to work on it. He continues his attack around the ringpost, locking in a Figure Four until the referee forces a break. He heads back to the ring with a modified Sharpshooter, breaking in the ropes and continuing the attack. Itami comes back with a GTS attempt – big pop – but Breeze fights free and hits a superkick. After another minute of rest holds, Tyler throws right hands and Hideo “Hulks up”, no-selling them and coming back with kicks of his own. The dropkick connects in the corner, followed by a running knee for three.

Winner: HIDEO ITAMI

BARON CORBIN vs. BULL DEMPSEY
No Disqualifications

Baron sprints down to the ring and goes right after him. Bull tries to bail but is followed, and they fight up the ramp. Corbin gets thrown into the apron and suplexed into the steel camp, then bounced off the post. “We want tables” chant breaks out. Bull looks under the ring, but decides against anything to draw heat from the crowd. He hits the ring and runs into a big spinebuster. Corbin clotheslines the big man, and they both spill over the ropes. Bull climbs to the top rope and hits the diving headbutt, but Baron kicks out at two – the first guy to do so. Dempsey goes to get a steel chair, but runs into the End of Days for the 1-2-3. Corbin grabs the chair after the bell, takes a seat and puts his feet up on Bull.

Winner: BARON CORBIN

WESLEY BLAKE (c) & BUDDY MURPHY (c) vs. THE LUCHA DRAGONS
NXT Tag Team Championship Match

It’s chaos to start, as the champions go right after Lucha Dragons. Kalisto slips on the ropes, then recovers with a senton to the floor on Blake. Sin Cara with a victory roll from the top rope for a two-count. The challengers work over Murphy with kicks and a double team, wheelbarrow senton. Blake tags in and they hit a double team neckbreaker, throwing Cara about 8 feet into the air. Kalisto redeems all the early botches with an impressive springboard corkscrew splash, followed by a big DDT. He tries for Soleda del Sol, but Murphy catches him; Kalisto pops up into a headscissors. They do a pinning combination battle with both partners end up making the save at the same time. Hot tags on both sides, with Sin Cara countering with a roll-up, dead-lift powerbomb attempt; Blake counters but it’s Murphy that gets the one-arm powerbomb. Champions with a blind tag – Blake hits a running suplex, and Murphy comes off the top with a splash for the win, to reain.

Winners: WESLEY BLAKE & BUDDY MURPHY

Solomon Crowe’s hacker gimmick interrupts the broadcast, with a message that says “The Takeover Isn’t Over”, and says to “Stay Tuned” for next week.

ADRIAN NEVILLE vs. FINN BALOR
#1 Contender’s Match

Balor starts in control with dropkicks and elbow strikes, until Neville slows things down with a side headlock. Finn battles back but runs into a nice dropkick. Back to the headlock for a few minutes. Balor fights back yet again and hits a bit enzuigiri, then flies over the ropes to take both guys into the ramp. Neville takes a breather in a chair at ringside, but Finn comes out of nowhere with a dropkick sending him into the barricade. They slowly fight back into the ring with both guys hitting dropkicks. Neville counters a lariat attempt with a huge German suplex, followed by another for two. He heads up to the top and connects with a swanton bomb off the second rope for two. Balor comes back with a slingblade, followed up with a reverse lifting DDT for two. He climbs the ropes but Adrian recovers and hits a step-up enzuigiri. Neville sets up for the Red Arrow but settles for a kick to the side of the head. Red Arrow attempt #2, but Balor gets the knees up for two-and-a-half. Finn with a dropkick that sends him flying. He heads to the top and connects with a double foot stomp. 1-2-3.

Winner: FINN BALOR

CHARLOTTE (c) vs. BAYLEY vs. SASHA BANKS vs. BECKY LYNCH
NXT Women’s Championship Match

The heels go right after Charlotte as soon as the bell rings, throwing her to the floor and tossing her into the barricade. Charlotte comes down hard, breaking a few of the LED lights on the entrance way. They rush the ring and go after Bayley, double teaming her in the corner. The alliance is broken when they both try to pin Bayley, with Lynch hitting a pumphandle suplex on Banks. She drops a trio of legs on Bayley for two. Sasha is back and goes after her “friend” with shoulder thrusts in the corner, then hands her up in the second rope for the knee drop, but Lynch moves out of the way and comes off the top rope with a dropkick. Charlotte comes back to save her title and runs through the heels with clotheslines. She hits a neckbreaker on Banks with an assist from her hair. Banks mocks the “Nature Boy” and Charlotte tries to spear her, but she moves and takes out Lynch instead. Bayley comes back to spear Sasha, Charlotte with a kick to Bayley, and everyone is down on the floor except the champion. Bayley connects with a series of splashes in the corner then fights to the top turnbuckle, connecting with a super-rana on the Charlotte. Bayley-to-Belly connects, but Lynch pulls her out of the ring to save the match. Becky tries to flee, but Bayley flies through the ring with an awesome dropkick to the floor, and they’re both taken down by Sasha Banks who flies over the ropes. Charlotte takes a break with all her challengers down on the outside, then vaults over the ropes to take everyone down. There’s a crazy fight with everyone on the ropes, that ends with a Bayley-to-Belly from the top on Charlotte; Banks tries to steal the title but the champ kicks out at two. Sasha freaks out, then applies a crossface. She lets up to kick the other challengers off the apron and goes back into the crossface. Charlotte slowly craws across the ring trying to get to the ropes, but before she gets there, Sasha rolls her up for the win.

Winner and NEW CHAMPION: SASHA BANKS

-After the match, Charlotte extends her hand. Sasha shakes her hand and the two hug it out. They shove each other, but are both smiling. Banks does the “Woo!” and walks out with the title, while Charlotte looks super proud of her. Very emotional moment.

SAMI ZAYN (c) vs. KEVIN OWENS
NXT Championship Match

Loud “Fight Owens Fight” chants as the bell rings, and they stare down until loud “Ole!” chants take over. Owens rolls to the floor to avoid a lock-up, drawing heat. They go to lock-up again, and Owens rolls to the floor, but this time Zayn flies over the ropes (and referee) to take him down. Owens with a loud-as-hell chop in the middle of the ring, and he slows it down with a headlock. He mocks the crowd as he rakes the eyes and methodically picks apart the champion. He goes to the floor and throws Zayn off the barricade, into the apron and ring steps, rolling back in to break the count every few seconds. Back in the ring the beatdown continues with a gutbuster and running senton; Zayn kicks out but Owens goes right back to the headlock. Sami with a jawbreaker to counter the hold, but the challenger immediately follows up with a big kick to take him back down. Total dominance. Zayn with a lariat out of nowhere and he fires up, clotheslining the big man over the ropes. They fight to the floor with Sami in control, leading to the Blue Thunder Bomb for two. He sets up for the Helluva Kick, but runs into a massive knock-out superkick. Owens follows with a cannonball splash, but Zayn kicks out at two-and-a-half. Kevin is starting to lose his cool, and Sami counters the pop-up powerbomb with a dropkick. The champ follows with a half-and-half suplex and stands tall, stalking the challenger. Owens rolls to the apron and hits a stunner over the top rope. He climbs the turnbuckles but Zayn is back to his feet; Owens fights back with headbutts, knocking him down, but he comes up empty on a top rope senton. Exploder suplex into the bottom turnbuckle, but Owens bails to escape the Helluva Kick again. He sets up for the powerbomb/apron spot, but Zayn kicks free and comes off the ropes with a springboard back-elbow, but the champ hit his head hard on the ramp. They roll back into the ring and Zayn misses yet another Helluva Kick; pop-up powerbomb connects for a nearfall. Challenger follows up with right hands and elbows and uppercuts and a choke in the ropes, going crazy now. He connects with a powerbomb while the medics check on him. He hits another powerbomb, followed by another, and yells at the referee to count. 1…2…KICKOUT. The medics check on the champion, but Owens pulls him back in the ring and hits him with not one, but two powerbombs. He goes for a third and the referee tackles him into the corner, stopping the match.

Winner and NEW CHAMPION: KEVIN OWENS

-Kevin Owens celebrates with the championship, not even glancing at Sami Zayn as the referees and medics check on him. Corey Graves makes the obvious comparison to Brock Lesnar. Owens celebrates as the show goes off the air.

Watching the pre-show beforehand it just feels so much more '2015' than the rest of WWE, the 4 of Graves, Albert, Saxton and Young just all come across as more in tune with the fanbase and you feel engaged in what they're saying.

I'm very impressed with nxt I honestly thought they would throw the title match as a no contest, keeping the belt on zayn .... I think the comparison between Owens and lesnar were apt, but could Owens dominate a John cena like that?

The women's match was really good, showing the main roster up again

Finn Balor v Adrian Neville was match of the night for me, and looking forward to Owens v balor and maybe triple threat if you throw zayn in

All in all perfect booking from trips

Hero wrote:Watching the pre-show beforehand it just feels so much more '2015' than the rest of WWE, the 4 of Graves, Albert, Saxton and Young just all come across as more in tune with the fanbase and you feel engaged in what they're saying.

I dunno, do you think people really care more about them than Heyman and Booker T? I get your point, but Saxton isn't all the way to being worth more time on TV and the only one who should be used more is Albert, but you just know WWE won't use him as hes neither cool nor fondly remembered

With Booker/Lawler/JBL etc it always comes across as they're trying to entertain themselves first and the fact that the mic is on is the only reason other people are in on their thoughts. With these guys it comes across that they actually want to enhance what's going on and care about what they say. The veterans come across as 'yeah this is alright but it's nothing compared to how good I was back in the day, did I tell you about that time...'

Aren't the commentators on Raw given a general direction and fed lines by Vince?

JBL was actually encouraging people to change the channel when Axel came out after the Rumble. We get that Axel is no longer a big name in WWE, but I don't get the angle that has a TV show telling its viewers that its stars are so poor they should put on another show.

I think there is a common denominator between things that make NXT better than Raw. Focus on wrestling, writing and commentary. And none of these are influenced by Vince.

He's never going to do it, but I wonder more and more if Vince stepped away for 6 months would the product be much better.

Amusing somewhat from Kayfabe News:

In his enthusiasm about the high-octane in-ring action throughout the recent NXT TakeOver event, 17-year-old wrestling fan Jonny Rinton failed to see the logical error in his declaration that every match was “Match of the Night.”

“In fact,” he wrote on his blog, SmarkReviews.wordpress.com, “I would asert (sic) that every match was MOTY (match of the year.”

While most wrestling fans shared Rinson’s opinion that NXT TakeOver: Rival indeed featured stellar performances by some of the industry’s top up-and-coming talent, few shared his opinion that every match “was the single greatest match of the year.”

His glowing review of the show continued: “Hands-down, Rookie of the Year honors should go to Finn Balor, Sami Zayn, Charlotte, Kevin Owens, Baron Corbin, Bull Dempsey, both Lucha Dragons, Adrian Neville, Sasha Banks,” and about a half-dozen others.

Rinson’s blog also reveals that he has described every episode of Monday Night Raw for the past three years as the “worst episode ever.”

Thought it was a bit of a mixed bag. Itami vs Breeze was a solid enough opener, Itami needed the win so right result there. Hope he's allowed to hit the GTS soon.

Didn't enjoy the Corbin vs Dempsey match at all, Corbin in particular has a lot of work to do, which I guess is why they keep his matches so short. Didn't really make use of the stipulation either. It's always great to see someone have to throw themselves over the top rope when the clothesline doesn't work as well.

The tag match was the worst match of the night, botch after botch and the ref seemed to have trouble keeping pace with it as well.

Balor vs Neville was great, match of the night, guess the loss means Neville is probably on his way to being promoted to the main roster, and wouldn't be surprised if Balor wasn't joining him fairly soon. Hate the phrase, but he does have the X-Factor.

The women's match was also really, really good and thought it flowed really well, they all got some high spots in the match and again right winner.

Finally, Main Event was booked perfectly, fitted the characters of both men down to the ground. Zayn refusing to give in and Owens came across as an absolute monster.

My favourite match was the main event, but because of the story told. Action wise, it was the woman's match. Cracking stuff and Banks is the boss

Hero wrote:With Booker/Lawler/JBL etc it always comes across as they're trying to entertain themselves first and the fact that the mic is on is the only reason other people are in on their thoughts. With these guys it comes across that they actually want to enhance what's going on and care about what they say. The veterans come across as 'yeah this is alright but it's nothing compared to how good I was back in the day, did I tell you about that time...'

Booker is very good at putting talent over in my book, hes just also mental. JBL can be great and also awful. Graves isn't that interesting yet, and his voice isn't amazing. Albert is brilliant.

It is annoying, but when the big matches are on they generally do a very good job.

Hero wrote:Amusing somewhat from Kayfabe News:

In his enthusiasm about the high-octane in-ring action throughout the recent NXT TakeOver event, 17-year-old wrestling fan Jonny Rinton failed to see the logical error in his declaration that every match was “Match of the Night.”

“In fact,” he wrote on his blog, SmarkReviews.wordpress.com, “I would asert (sic) that every match was MOTY (match of the year.”

While most wrestling fans shared Rinson’s opinion that NXT TakeOver: Rival indeed featured stellar performances by some of the industry’s top up-and-coming talent, few shared his opinion that every match “was the single greatest match of the year.”

His glowing review of the show continued: “Hands-down, Rookie of the Year honors should go to Finn Balor,  Sami Zayn, Charlotte, Kevin Owens, Baron Corbin, Bull Dempsey, both Lucha Dragons, Adrian Neville,  Sasha Banks,” and about a half-dozen others.

Rinson’s blog also reveals that he has described every episode of Monday Night Raw for the past three years as the “worst episode ever.”

Mat's views are pretty close to mine. The rematch section was a mixed bag. Breeze/Itami was good, but I didn't think it was as good as their tournament match.

Corbin/Bull wasted the No DQ stipulation, and didn't do much for either man.

The tag match lacked any flow. The botches at the start of the match from the Lucha's spoiled the match for me. It came across like an X-division spot fest, and there was no psychology in the match. The tag division has been a slight weakness for NXT. I hope Murphy and Blake develop as characters, and maybe some new blood comes into the division. I read about the Shoot Nation stable, who've been performing on house shows. Hopefully they are TV ready, as there's only four teams in the division.

The second half of Rival was excellent. Neville/Balor was really good. Neville's a really versatile performer, who's ready for a call up. There's not a lot left for him in NXT, unless he turns heel.

Delighted that Sasha won the belt. She's been my favourite performer in NXT for a while. All four women shone in the match, and this was the first time I saw why Becky Lynch is rated highly by some.

Zayn/Owens was absolutely brutal. Zayn selling is in a league of its own.

Just got it finished, not as good as R Evolution, but still better than most WWE shows.

The opener was a good match, Itami continues to grow and Breeze is showing he can still be relied upon to go into a main event match.

The Corbin/Dempsey was too short for my liking, and didnt live up to the No DQ hype, but it puts Corbin over and emphasized his resiliency.

The Botcha Dragons are back in style, not a very good match. Even with a full face mask you can tell Sin Cara just doesnt care. Good end sequence though.

Neville/Balor was a really good match, both guys put it all on the line. Time for Neville to move on.

Im really happy Sasha won, she's been a standout in that division for months. The best womans match in a WWE environment for some time now.

The main event was just brutal. Holy Poopie Owens looked amazing. I love his style. Its almost like Stone Cold, not pretty, but effective. It was probably the right outcome aswell. I love Zayn, but now he has a rematch under his belt because Owens didnt pin or submit him, so I expect another chapter to come, maybe after the Balor match.

Can I just say again how much of a beast Owens is? Jesus christ. And John Cena - take note - THATS how you sell in a match. Its at the point I genuinely think Zayn is hurt. I'll be amazed if he isnt. Such a good story, great match, Match of the Night by a distance.

And Crowe is coming next week.

First time I've watched the nXt live show, unbelievable, everything about it, the pre ahow was insanely good, they treat it seriously, they're kayfabing the hell out of it and it actually works, it hooks you to the point you know you must watch the show, I honestly could find no fault in it whats so ever, I lpve how intimate the show feels and love how they had Saxton was it??? in among the fans asking their opinions before the event, fantastic stuff, might watch it all again later

As covered above, there was bad, good and great in this.  As a freebie on the Network this month, well worth the money This was Itami's best show so far (maybe the match last week with Balor gave him more confidence). I still don't know where a Japanese star goes in WWE based on their stature, strong style and language, but I hope he keeps rolling. Owens, wow! He literally burst onto the NXT scene when his nose was taken out at the beginning of his match in the last PPV and this just takes that personality and keeps it going.

Balor future spoiler:

What was the point in having a no DQ match when not a single weapon was used? The divas match was awesome though.

Maybe I got my timeline wrong.  But I'm wondering if the creative team at NXT went cold on that Bull / Corbin match.

It seemed to me that Itami / Breeze got added to the card fairly late in the day and there was already enough on there for a 2 hour show.  So there is a part of me that wonders if that Dempsey / Corbin bout was originally intended to go longer, but creative just decided to get it in and out and instead give Itami more time in the spotlight.

They were both matches that didnt really need to be there.

I agree and disagree. If they have a good feeling about Itami then they need to start to take him to the next level. While I will agree this could easily have waited to the next PPV, I think he responded by being given the chance. It was his best showing in NXT and I'm one of those who is hoping there is much more to come.

Itami should be on the show, but the match was rushed and also seemed a waste of a feud that could have had real build.

Gotcha. And agree. Maybe I'm wrong and this was always the plan, they just needed to wait on that final NXT program being shown.

But, I just have a feeling that with the rest of the card built over time. And the announcement outside of a show just 4 days before the event. That there's a chance it got shoe-horned in late. And I do think that shows in what we had. I'd have rather had this than another 6 minutes of Dempsey / Corbin though.

I must say, that the way Breeze sold Itami's kick. He's well set to be the next Ziggler!

Having watched it last night I've a few points.

Finn Balor. The entrance is on an epic scale, as a one off then it's breathtaking, but I think it'd quickly become tiresome on a bigger scale. Not quite sure if the WWE Universe is ready for Expressive Dance.
The ending to the main event. It came across a little confusing, I like the ref stopped fight option as an ending to a match but I think they could have made it clearer especially to the crowd, a few seemed a little confused by it. Afterwards Owens also stayed in the ring far too long celebrating.
Itami, have to be honest and I've not seen a lot of him previously as KENTA, has he always had the same moveset as Daniel Bryan? I worry for him tbh, I just don't think Japanese stars translate to a non-hardcore American audience. Breeze though is going to be huge, he's Ziggler cranked to 11 (and personally I prefer him).

Hero wrote:Having watched it last night I've a few points.

Finn Balor. The entrance is on an epic scale, as a one off then it's breathtaking, but I think it'd quickly become tiresome on a bigger scale. Not quite sure if the WWE Universe is ready for Expressive Dance.
The ending to the main event. It came across a little confusing, I like the ref stopped fight option as an ending to a match but I think they could have made it clearer especially to the crowd, a few seemed a little confused by it. Afterwards Owens also stayed in the ring far too long celebrating.
Itami, have to be honest and I've not seen a lot of him previously as KENTA, has he always had the same moveset as Daniel Bryan? I worry for him tbh, I just don't think Japanese stars translate to a non-hardcore American audience. Breeze though is going to be huge, he's Ziggler cranked to 11 (and personally I prefer him).

Unfortunately for Itami he's had the following liberated from his move set by wrestlers who've been in WWE before him:
- Go to Sleep, which obviously Punk took and Itami teases now. I think it'll be huge when he hits it.
- Game Over, which became the Yes Lock for Bryan
- Basaiku / Knee Kick, again taken by Bryan
- The double foot stomp from the top rope, which Balor took

I know he originated the GTS. Not sure who started to use the Bryan stuff first, but if it were the other way round and Itami had debuted in WWE before Bryan I think we'd be asking has Bryan always had the same moveset as Itami.

Breeze is a worry for me. Don't think the gimmick translates well onto the main shows where he's less protected. He definitely has a face you want to hit though, not sure he'll ever be a good guy

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Breeze is a worry for me. Don't think the gimmick translates well onto the main shows where he's less protected. He definitely has a face you want to hit though, not sure he'll ever be a good guy

I agree. While his in ring skills are not in doubt, his gimmick has been done to death. From Dashing Cody Rhodes to Ravishing Rick Rude to the model Rick Martel. It is a gimmick guaranteed to have him jobbing out to everyone after 6 months on the main roster.

I can see why a certain type of fan creams over NXT, but on the whole it is the same type of fan who is more interested in their own desires being catered to than assessing the quality of a show on its ability to draw money.

There's nothing wrong with that, necessarily , but it's never been the WWE formula, so I'm not sure how any of this equates to 'developmental'. The stars of the show are doing the same things that never attracted a wider audience on the indy scene.

And I think Triple H would be far too smart to wrestle like any of them.

It hurts my soul a little that I text Gav the sentence "it gets a bit spot monkey to the point the moves don't mean anything." I used to enjoy things

I knew I'd eventually get you to hate wrestling as much as I do

My friends started watching around October 2013, they couldn't understand why I was always so negative about everything wrestling...they do now.

crippledtart wrote:I can see why a certain type of fan creams over NXT, but on the whole it is the same type of fan who is more interested in their own desires being catered to than assessing the quality of a show on its ability to draw money.

There's nothing wrong with that, necessarily , but it's never been the WWE formula, so I'm not sure how any of this equates to 'developmental'. The stars of the show are doing the same things that never attracted a wider audience on the indy scene.

And I think Triple H would be far too smart to wrestle like any of them.

I'll bite.

As you concede there is nothing wrong with a fan wanting their interest catered to. Indeed, my selfish view would be why is it important to me what draws, as long as I'm entertained?

Is it not like when I was drinking a locally brewed lager last night, rather than Heineken? Or, how I prefer the lamb burger at a local burger joint than a Big Mac? The alternatives are much more successful globally, but I don't see how that makes me enjoy them more than what I know I prefer.

I suppose the argument is that if it is not commercially successful then it will go. But the counter is, why would I not enjoy it while it is here?

I'm not sure we can say it is the style of wrestling that is not drawing. Let's look at it this way. If indy shows started to wrestle WWE style would they all be as big as WWE? If HHH had been in RoH rather than WWE would RoH have turned over 500M last year? I've never watched Ring of Honor, but was Bryan wrestling in such a different style from there when he was so over last year? Or, is Seth Rollins so different in the ring from Tyler Black?

You could argue that 1million people subscribe to NXT as RAW isnt on the network.

Thats a draw

And as you most probably appreciate, I am 100% with you on the drawing thing - as long as it is entertaining, I dont care if its popular or not.

Like I said, I just don't see how the wrestlers are 'developing', as WWE puts it.

What WWE means by that is learning how to work a certain style of match and portray characters and storylines in ways that have been proven to draw more money.

NXT seems designed to appeal to a particular type of hardcore fan that prioritises different things to the masses. The same kind of fan that likes ROH. Those fans are a minority and WWE knows that.

I don't see Zayn, Balor and Neville learning to 'work smart', tell a story, and carry themselves like future WWE main eventers. I see a little bit of that from Owens and Itami, but they already had it anyway.

It's lovely that you enjoyed it.

If the Neville / Zayn arc culminating in the REvolution PPV didn't tell a story, we must be watching two different shows.

I'm also not entirely convinced this WWE style hasn't changed since HHH's day too. Back then a pedigree would end all but the very biggest of his matches. Today we see multiple finishing moves kicked out of. So, I'd argue that WWE's product is transitioning more to an indy style where the pops are for the big moves, rather than how the story is built and told.

And I think WWE is right if it is doing this. What they don't need to do is to go back to the era where wrestlers were getting injured frequently because of the big spots they were using. But the product has to move forwards. If you see a move like a lockup or an arm bar, the crowd are going to be chanting "boring" within a few seconds, 70s and 80s wrestling isn't working in 2015.

And Owens has wrestled 3 times in NXT, has he? The REvolution debut vs CJ Parker, a match against Neville and this recent one against Zayn. Again, I'm not familiar with his Kevin Steen work, but this would feel like amazing progress if it is hugely different. And I'd consider any main difference to be how he is told to wrestle.

So, if they are doing that for Owens. I'd have to assume they are giving instruction to Zayn, Balor, etc. And if the instruction is "wrestle like you did in the indies, that's what we picked you up for". Then either WWE sees a future in that, or they just see NXT as a nice brand to have that keeps the IWC happy but its really not a developmental program at all.

And my feeling is that it's the latter, which is great news for you, but not great news for the stated aim of any wrestling promotion (and more blatantly in WWE than any other in history) which is to have a product that resonates with the widest possible audience.

I find your points interesting as they come from almost the polar opposite of my thinking.

I don't know if NXT has a charter. We all feel we know stuff about it, like it is HHH's baby, it is there because WWE killed the territories, it is the developmental wing, it is the darling of the IWC. I don't think I've ever seen it written down by WWE that this is our stated aim of NXT.

I find two pieces of recent NXT news of interest.

Firstly, HHH in his podcast with SCSA said that he and Vince have never sat down and watched NXT together. And that it is a program that Vince has on, but he may be busy working while it's playing. So, if we all happily agree that Vince is still the WWE creative driving force, well he's not really that into this product that may be there to feed his production.

Secondly, we have NXT going on tour. We'll see how long term this is. But, this could be an indication behind this that WWE view this as a separate brand, which is going to be tested to see if it can make its own money. I'd view this a little like a movie studio that has an arthouse studio under its wing. So, this would keep the IWC happy, keep people like me happy and I'm still contributing to the WWE at 9.99 same as everyone else.

I'll be totally honest. I'd prefer if some NXT talent did not go to WWE. I think that there is every chance that the likes of Balor, Zayn, Itami and Neville could be lost on Raw and end up like Bo and Adam Rose. I'd prefer the women to stay in NXT working matches than being divas and having a couple of odd minutes on Raw. But, as I said at the start we come at this from opposite ends. I'm just hear to enjoy (or not) a product put out by WWE and whether that helps the future of WWE or engages the masses really is of an inconsequential nature to me.

Prometheus wrote:

I'll be totally honest.  I'd prefer if some NXT talent did not go to WWE.  I think that there is every chance that the likes of Balor, Zayn, Itami and Neville could be lost on Raw and end up like Bo and Adam Rose.  I'd prefer the women to stay in NXT working matches than being divas and having a couple of odd minutes on Raw.  But, as I said at the start we come at this from opposite ends.  I'm just hear to enjoy (or not) a product put out by WWE and whether that helps the future of WWE or engages the masses really is of an inconsequential nature to me.

I agree entirely. Do guys like Zayn, Neville, Owens and Balor deserve a crack at the big time? Absolutely, but until the WWE can prove to me they would be capable of booking them competently like they deserve then I dont want to see them go up. I'd rather see them be the big fish in a small pond and putting on a thoroughly enjoyable product every week, than become just another face in the crowd.

Samo wrote:

Prometheus wrote:

I'll be totally honest.  I'd prefer if some NXT talent did not go to WWE.  I think that there is every chance that the likes of Balor, Zayn, Itami and Neville could be lost on Raw and end up like Bo and Adam Rose.  I'd prefer the women to stay in NXT working matches than being divas and having a couple of odd minutes on Raw.  But, as I said at the start we come at this from opposite ends.  I'm just hear to enjoy (or not) a product put out by WWE and whether that helps the future of WWE or engages the masses really is of an inconsequential nature to me.

I agree entirely.  Do guys like Zayn, Neville, Owens and Balor deserve a crack at the big time?  Absolutely, but until the WWE can prove to me they would be capable of booking them competently like they deserve then I dont want to see them go up.  I'd rather see them be the big fish in a small pond and putting on a thoroughly enjoyable product every week, than become just another face in the crowd.

Its not that I don't want them to succeed, if we measure that by pay and number of eyes who watch them. Which they would get more of I expect by being on Raw.

This is a bad analogy, but the best I can think of right now. I used to like the comedy King of Queens. I liked every man Kevin James as Doug Hefferman. Then he left the show for Hollywood and started to make films like Zookeeper, Paul Bart: Mall Cop and Here Comes the Boom. Personally, I think those films are Poopie. But they probably get watched by more people than saw KoQ and he very probably makes more money than he did. I'm fine with that, I don't wish he'd go back. I'll just move on to the next comedy program I like.

And I'd be fine with the wrestlers going from NXT to Raw. If Finn Balor went to Raw and predominantly did skits where he was a dancing leprachaun little brother of Sheamus, I'd not be accusing him of selling out. But I'd also not be talking about that great match that he just had, I'd just move on to the next "indy" talent that I enjoy, letting the WWE Universe enjoy Fergal.

I enjoyed here comes the boom!

I also love King Of Queens - severely underated and lost in the sea of other comedies out there but to me consistantly better than the mainstream shows at the same time that drew higer ratings. And no, I am not trying to draw parallels with TNA....I just loved Arthur Spooner!

Adam D wrote:I enjoyed here comes the boom!

I also love King Of Queens - severely underated and lost in the sea of other comedies out there but to me consistantly better than the mainstream shows at the same time that drew higer ratings. And no, I am not trying to draw parallels with TNA

For some reason, I don't tend to use you as my touchstone for quality

....I just loved Arthur Spooner!

Though I guess even a stopped clock is right twice a day

Adam D wrote:I just loved Arthur Spooner!

Didnt know he was Ben Stillers Dad until recently.

He plays exactly the same character as when he was on Seinfeld as George Costanzas dad.

Ben Stiller appeared on King of Queens at least once (as Arthurs dad in a flashback)

I hate agreeing with Gavin.

I think booking NXT is a lot easier than the main shows. The fans are similar to Adam's attitude to TNA