Taking the player out in the air.

First topic message reminder :

Fallout from Wales vs Scotland.

This taking the player in the air is nonsense. Both yellows IMO were not worthy of getting cards. Secondly Warburton and Gatland claiming Russel should have been red carded is really really uncalled for. It was an accident, no malice (unlike Hogg last year).

So here is my suggestion.

If the ball is in the air, keep your feet on the ground.

Anyone jumping for a ball with their knees up should be penalized and yellow carded. If your not jumping in the air it's pretty hard to land on your head.

Whilst you are at it, lets bring back properly calling for the mark as a fullback. That will bring positioning back instead of being able to catch it whilst diving.

CurlyOsp wrote:

Riskysports wrote:

CurlyOsp wrote:

123456789 wrote:Russell could have avoided the contact? That's ludicrous he was looking to get the ball avoiding the contact would have allowed Biggar a free run to the line. Webb could have avoided the contact when he tried to decapitate Sam hidalgo clyne. Let's all go and play touch then or even better netball

So dangerous play is okay as long as it saves a try? Look again, Laidlaw was covering. Even if not, holding his run or changing his course marginally either way would have avoided that collision and still given Russell time to make the tackle. These situations happen every match at every level yet there's hardly ever this kind of contact. Why? Because players know how to deal with it without being dangerous.

But this actually goes to the whole heart of the discussion on jumping

The current laws mean that a jumper has more right to the ball than a person on the ground. Which is wrong.

Both were going for the ball, both ended up the same place - yet as one jumped they have the right to space and the other has no right to a space he has arrived at.

Only if the person on the ground goes into contact anyway. My interpretation is that Russell realises he isn't in time to compete and takes contact knowingly. Unfortunately I can't find a link to it, but I remember a similar situation with Gareth Thomas where he stepped to the side rather than taking the contact, then made the tackle safely and won the turnover. Russell isn't at full tilt like some are claiming, he has time to alter his course and still stop the player safely.

This is again the whole point. He is looking at the ball and is in mid stride from when he sees Biggar in the air - he does not had enough time to take the next step before he is hit (as feet are in mid stride) - so saying he could have avoided the contact and he takes contact knowingly is highly provocative wording designed to make it seem like he intentionally took him out

watch the BBC video and see the second part of the replay as see how much time he had to avoid contact b- NONE

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31488522


Both were going for the ball. One jumped the other did not. the jumper suddenly has priority on the ball - which is a stupid law

Biggar did nothing wrong and Russel was rightly carded as the laws meant he was dammed as soon as Biggar left the ground. This is not against Biggar - but against the laws that make this situation occur

CurlyOsp wrote:And how about Russell mocking Jonathan Davies when he got carded? Or Lamont milking a card by pushing Davies into Beattie? Are these things we want the younger generation picking up on?

It's easy enough to make the Welsh out to be the bad guys, but people in glass houses would be wise not to throw stones.

Stop making this and us and them thing - it is the laws that we are discussing - why do you have to make it like we are having a go at the Welsh?

Also, if you had used the example of BEATTIE milking the penalty - I would have agreed 100% as i think he was well out of order doing that

alive555 wrote:

Apparently warburton was nagging the ref to give a red card; that and liam willams footballesque celebration of his non try shows the welsh are going, if they get away with it, to bring rugby down to football level. For me calling for the ref to give a red card should be automatic sending off offence .

Its pure bad sportmanship, and we absolutely need to stamp it out from rugby before its too late

I was writing in reaction to comments such as this.

CurlyOsp wrote:

alive555 wrote:

Apparently warburton was nagging the ref to give a red card and Hogg nagging the touch judge; that and liam willams and Hogg footballesque celebration of his non (and real try ;-0 )try shows the welsh way we are going, if they all players get away with it, to bring rugby down to football level. For me calling for the ref to give a red card should be automatic sending off offence .

Its pure bad sportmanship, and we absolutely need to stamp it out from rugby before its too late

I was writing in reaction to comments such as this.

I tweaked it - so hopefully we can all be friends now :-)

haha you're right, It was childish and I apologise.

Back to the original point in hand, it's unlikely we're all ever going to agree on out interpretation of this incident, but certainly to take jumping out of the game would be a huge over reaction.

No doubt something will come of it, there's always one controversial topic like this every year but it seems to get sorted out eventually. e.g. tip tackling a few seasons ago.

Its nice to see some good debate on here, however theres still a certain amount of people literally dying to claim only the welsh can do any wrong.

alive55 in particular, your posts have become a joke.

I dont know if any of you have been in a situation like Biggar has and fallen from a good height onto their neck and shoulder with no control thanks to the recklessness of another player. I'd bet you'd be pretty annoyed aswell, especially when less dangerous tackles have resulted in red cards and life-threatening injuries. I have, and all i wanted to do when I got back up was smash the guys face in who was responsible for it. Im not saying his ranting at the ref was right, it nwas inheerently wrong within the rules of the game, but some of you lose all perspective when commenting on things you dont have experience of.

As for Russell, he was chasing the ball with his eyes on it and then knew exactly what he was doing the moment he realised he lost the chase for the ball, he should have tried to grab Biggar and bring him down safely, he didnt, he pulled out and lost control of the situation, thats dangerous play according to the rules, and honestly I wouldn't have been surprised if a red was given. The fact a majority are calling for that to not even be a yellow is extremely strange. there has to be a challenge in the air agreed, but its down to the players to judge when that is a good idea, and when its not, we shouldnt use the laws to protect players who dont have the ability to make that decision.

The game was FULL of niggle from both sides, the referee lost control of the players by the end of the game.

Both sides had a player celebrate a try in a barely mentionable way.

Both sides contested high balls.

Both sides shouted at the referee and produced behaviour best described as 'unsportsmanly' so can we just stop pretending its the Welsh trying to corrupt the game.

Both sides threw themselves into questionable tackles/situations.

Its threads like these why I've stopped coming on here a lot. I dont believe for a second the thread was started as a beat to stick the welsh (it was a generally good debate originally) but the nature of posters on this site was come to the fore. I think Curly Osp said it well, "people in glass houses would be wise not to throw stones."

No team can claim they are holier than thou, so can we open both eyes.

Thank God for Comfort.

I must admit though, I'm not a fan of the charge from Jenkins, but we see them every game from forwards in every team.

I'm not a fan of Warburton asking for a red card, but hes not the only player/captain we've seen do it (not even close).

I'm not a fan of Biggar shouting at the ref, but I am happy that he didnt stay down and roll around on the floor feigning injury (like we've seen a number of players do over the last few seasons).

I'm not saying there aren't things the welsh team did wrong, but to suggest these actions aren't prevelant in other teams/players is hilarious.

Good points Comfort, most of which I agree with. However I still take issue with your post. First of all many people here do not think Russell was reckless, you however imply, like it was fact, that he was.

You then say that ranting at the ref is wrong, but then try to justify Biggars actions. FWIW I agree about backchat to the ref. It should not be tolerated, regardless of greviance

Comfort wrote:I must admit though, I'm not a fan of the charge from Jenkins, but we see them every game from forwards in every team.

I'm not a fan of Warburton asking for a red card, but hes not the only player/captain we've seen do it (not even close).

I'm not a fan of Biggar shouting at the ref, but I am happy that he didnt stay down and roll around on the floor feigning injury (like we've seen a number of players do over the last few seasons).

I'm not saying there aren't things the welsh team did wrong, but to suggest these actions aren't prevelant in other teams/players is hilarious.

Not sure I do - even if we sometimes focus on how rubbish our team is too much to have time to focus on other things they do wrong too :-)

Cake, apoloies if it seems I was trying to justify his rant, I was only trying to add some balance to the discussion, I've been in a situation very similar to that and reacted in a much worse way but I know what runs through the mind.

I honestly think Russell was reckless, I think had biggar stayed down it was a red. I also think the ref wimped out of some big decisions, imo he gave JD2 a yellow to even it up when that was a penalty offence no more.

Thats just my opinion of course, and we'll never know the thought process or how he made his decision, nothing we discuss here is more than subjective viewings.

Comfort wrote:Cake, apoloies if it seems I was trying to justify his rant, I was only trying to add some balance to the discussion, I've been in a situation very similar to that and reacted in a much worse way but I know what runs through the mind.

I honestly think Russell was reckless, I think had biggar stayed down it was a red. I also think the ref wimped out of some big decisions, imo he gave JD2 a yellow to even it up when that was a penalty offence no more.

Thats just my opinion of course, and we'll never know the thought process or how he made his decision, nothing we discuss here is more than subjective viewings.

Comfort, one thing this topic does need is balance.

Biltong wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just watch the video clip.

I have, again, and he's clearly moving.

If you are alive and breathing you are moving, he wasn't going forward.

I used to have a girlfriend who, unfortunately, could disprove that statement.

doctor_grey wrote:

Biltong wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Biltong wrote:Just watch the video clip.

I have, again, and he's clearly moving.

If you are alive and breathing you are moving, he wasn't going forward.

I used to have a girlfriend who, unfortunately, could disprove that statement.  

Haha, you were doing it wrong

I thought Liam Williams non-try celebration was a little OTT.

Finger waving at the crowd just isn't on, celebrate with your team mates and get on with it.

TH I dont mind celebrations like that, I mean it definitely got it chucked back in his face when the try was chalked off and I couldnt help but laugh.

I'm of the opinion that if you play with fire and do something like that, you have to be able to take it back with a pinch of salt (whether thats from the crowd on your back or opposition players making sure you feel their tackles )

To be fair and balanced its not just Liam Williams i'm moaning about, I hate seeing players running round like they have just won the world cup when they score a try. also hate seeing subs running on the pitch to share the glory.

Comfort wrote:TH I dont mind celebrations like that, I mean it definitely got it chucked back in his face when the try was chalked off and I couldnt help but laugh.

I'm of the opinion that if you play with fire and do something like that, you have to be able to take it back with a pinch of salt (whether thats from the crowd on your back or opposition players making sure you feel their tackles )

thought u would say that, I recommend you doddle off to the football forums.

Interesting u have now admitted biggar and warburton BOTH called for a red, and a very dangerous shoulder charge by Jenkins on Hogg which could have broken his neck. Anyone who hasn't see have a look. Very dangerous play

Appealing for red cards and football type celebrations are the last thing which most real rugby fans want to see in rugby. id say your view are very much in the minority

"he should have tried to grab Biggar and bring him down safely"

Seen this a couple of time on this thread. From looking at the video of the incident I cannot honestly see how Russell could have done that. He is watching the ball and has his hands in a catching position around chest high until he sees Biggar coming through the air only a couple of metres away. Biggar is moving much faster through the air than Russell is on the ground. So even if he has time to get his hands up and manages to grab a hold of Biggar who is coming at head/shoulder height I can't see him stopping the momentum. Therefore he would tip him over regardless and probably would have definitely been a red card.

Not blaming Biggar for anything but disagree that Russell "knew exactly what he was doing". From the time that Biggar jumped until contact there is under a second of time.

Calder106 wrote:"he should have tried to grab Biggar and bring him down safely"

Seen this a couple of time on this thread. From looking at the video of the incident I cannot honestly see how Russell could have done that. He is watching the ball and has his hands in a catching position around chest high until he sees Biggar coming through the air only a couple of metres away. Biggar is moving much faster through the air than Russell is on the ground. So even if he has time to get his hands up and manages to grab a hold of Biggar who is coming at head/shoulder height I can't see him stopping the momentum. Therefore he would tip him over regardless and probably would have definitely been a red card.

Not blaming Biggar for anything but disagree that Russell "knew exactly what he was doing". From the time that Biggar jumped until contact there is under a second of time.

Good points. Which mean Finn Russell has only really 1 option to avoid getting a yellow card - dive out of the way like a jesse.

Which is why the laws need changing.

alive555 wrote:

Comfort wrote:TH I dont mind celebrations like that, I mean it definitely got it chucked back in his face when the try was chalked off and I couldnt help but laugh.

I'm of the opinion that if you play with fire and do something like that, you have to be able to take it back with a pinch of salt (whether thats from the crowd on your back or opposition players making sure you feel their tackles )

thought u would say that, I recommend you doddle off to the football forums.

Interesting u have now admitted biggar and warburton BOTH called for a red, and a very dangerous shoulder charge by Jenkins on Hogg which could have broken his neck. Anyone who hasn't see have a look. Very dangerous play

Appealing for red cards and football type celebrations are the last thing which most real rugby fans want to see in rugby. id say your view are very much in the minority

Im just going to ask you to show me where I denied any of the above happened? At any point in time, ever? Seeing as I hadn't commented on this thread until today.

I'd also like to point you over to the 'No arms clearout' thread where its being discussed that the Jenkins charge is an offence that happens nearly every game and examples from plenty of nationalities have been provided.

As far as 'doddling off to the wendyball forums' - I don't doddle, and I dont know who wendy is or why she has balls.

You're extremely anti-welsh on this thread and its hilarious.

Comfort wrote:I'd also like to point you over to the 'No arms clearout' thread where its being discussed that the Jenkins charge is an offence that happens nearly every game and examples from plenty of nationalities have been provided.

As far as 'doddling off to the wendyball forums' - I don't doddle, and I dont know who wendy is or why she has balls.

You're extremely anti-welsh on this thread and its hilarious.

Not in the least. im against unsporting behavior in Scotland team as well. If our captain called for red card id take away the captaincy. In your case arm band

Absolutely mad decision to ban Russell for two weeks. Incomprehensible. I thought the yellow card was harsh!

Nowadays you get banned for protecting your head when someone jumps into you knee first. Bizarre perversion of the laws about tackling in the air.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Calder106 wrote:"he should have tried to grab Biggar and bring him down safely"

Seen this a couple of time on this thread. From looking at the video of the incident I cannot honestly see how Russell could have done that. He is watching the ball and has his hands in a catching position around chest high until he sees Biggar coming through the air only a couple of metres away. Biggar is moving much faster through the air than Russell is on the ground. So even if he has time to get his hands up and manages to grab a hold of Biggar who is coming at head/shoulder height I can't see him stopping the momentum. Therefore he would tip him over regardless and probably would have definitely been a red card.

Not blaming Biggar for anything but disagree that Russell "knew exactly what he was doing". From the time that Biggar jumped until contact there is under a second of time.

Good points. Which mean Finn Russell has only really 1 option to avoid getting a yellow card - dive out of the way like a jesse.

Which is why the laws need changing.

This.

Some folk appear to be suggesting that Russell had huge amounts of time to way up his options and carefully consider his next move, or to purposefully knock Biggar out of the air.

He was looking at the ball, arms ready to catch the ball, he sees a flying object coming in around head height. What does he do? What does anybody do in that situation? Protect their head by ducking. It's human nature.

Don't be a fool EST.  By ducking he incriminated himself in showing he had the time to duck and protect himself.

He should have just looked at the sky and collided fully into anything that was coming at high speed - IF he wanted to plead innocence, that is!  

But the guy never looked innocent and planned that ducking take-out probably before Biggar kicked.

We have to weed out these pre-emptive thought processes. This will be a lesson for all defenders.

Is there some way someone can point out where Warburton and Biggar asked for a red card, cheers.

Two week ban is nonsense. Nuff said

Notch wrote:Absolutely mad decision to ban Russell for two weeks. Incomprehensible. I thought the yellow card was harsh!

Nowadays you get banned for protecting your head when someone jumps into you knee first. Bizarre perversion of the laws about tackling in the air.

It's not even tackling which make the whole situation even worse. This isn't intentional, there is no malice in it and it arguably isn't even reckless, Finn Russell was just chasing the damn ball. If anything, Biggar was the one being reckless.

VinceWLB wrote:

Notch wrote:Absolutely mad decision to ban Russell for two weeks. Incomprehensible. I thought the yellow card was harsh!

Nowadays you get banned for protecting your head when someone jumps into you knee first. Bizarre perversion of the laws about tackling in the air.

It's not even tackling which make the whole situation even worse. This isn't intentional, there is no malice in it and it arguably isn't even reckless, Finn Russell was just chasing the damn ball. If anything, Biggar was the one being reckless.

I think it was reckless Vince, but as I said on the poll thread, I do believe he should have been cited so that it was viewed impartially, but that would have been enough for me, no extra ban was necessary, as the 10 points on the day was enough.

Higher_Ground wrote:Is there some way someone can point out where Warburton and Biggar asked for a red card, cheers.

I overheard Warburton say it, something along the lines of "that's a red card". When I first watched it I also called for a red card, as going by my knowledge that should have been the punishment for Russell's reckless actions. I never heard Biggar say it, but he was back to his old crying ways after being taken out, though in this instance he had reason to be angry. I only heard Warbs say it once then he was waved on by Jackson. So those comments about him nagging the ref are exaggerated, but just about everything that happened on Sunday has been over-exaggerated by some moaning Scots on here.

VinceWLB wrote:

Notch wrote:Absolutely mad decision to ban Russell for two weeks. Incomprehensible. I thought the yellow card was harsh!

Nowadays you get banned for protecting your head when someone jumps into you knee first. Bizarre perversion of the laws about tackling in the air.

It's not even tackling which make the whole situation even worse. This isn't intentional, there is no malice in it and it arguably isn't even reckless, Finn Russell was just chasing the damn ball. If anything, Biggar was the one being reckless.

Absolutely ridiculous. Gaining ground and re-gathering the ball from kicks is actually fundamental to winning the game... How Biggar has been criticised on here for that I don't know - and how Lee Byrne getting taken out in the 2009 fixture also gets brought into it...well that just beggars belief. It's threads like this that are the reason hardly any Welsh posters decide to come on here any more. Russell's intentions were to get the ball, but he was reckless, the sort of play which carries a red card. Had he got that I believe his ban would have been just one week. So there's another decision which didn't go Scotland's way right?

2 weeks ban mean a red should have been issued but i'm sorry but both players are chasing the ball and you can't red card a player for an accidental collision this is ridiculous. This is Payne-Goode all over again and i for one strongly disagree with irb directives.

The Saint wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

Notch wrote:Absolutely mad decision to ban Russell for two weeks. Incomprehensible. I thought the yellow card was harsh!

Nowadays you get banned for protecting your head when someone jumps into you knee first. Bizarre perversion of the laws about tackling in the air.

It's not even tackling which make the whole situation even worse. This isn't intentional, there is no malice in it and it arguably isn't even reckless, Finn Russell was just chasing the damn ball. If anything, Biggar was the one being reckless.

Absolutely ridiculous. Gaining ground and re-gathering the ball from kicks is actually fundamental to winning the game... How Biggar has been criticised on here for that I don't know - and how Lee Byrne getting taken out in the 2009 fixture also gets brought into it...well that just beggars belief. It's threads like this that are the reason hardly any Welsh posters decide to come on here any more. Russell's intentions were to get the ball, but he was reckless, the sort of play which carries a red card. Had he got that I believe his ban would have been just one week. So there's another decision which didn't go Scotland's way right?

I don't think Biggar was being reckless by the letter of the law. He was well within his rights according to the rules. What I don't understand is why the rules are such that a player is allowed to launch themselves into the air while running at full speed, and place the duty for their safety on anyone who happens to be standing in their way. Russell was perfectly entitled to be in that space under the ball. Strange that the rules are such that Biggar can hit Russell in the head with his knee at 20 mph and it's Russell's fault for not jumping out of the way.

VinceWLB wrote:2 weeks ban mean a red should have been issued but i'm sorry but both players are chasing the ball and you can't red card a player for an accidental collision this is ridiculous. This is Payne-Goode all over again and i for one strongly disagree with irb directives.

Yeah that was my point, as I was under the impression that some red card offences (probably this one) carry an automatic one week ban? Though I could be wrong, but I'm just going by Warbs red card and ban in the last RWC (which was the correct decision before you jump at this). Accidental maybe, but still reckless. I think these laws in this area need a review too.

thomh wrote:

The Saint wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:

Notch wrote:Absolutely mad decision to ban Russell for two weeks. Incomprehensible. I thought the yellow card was harsh!

Nowadays you get banned for protecting your head when someone jumps into you knee first. Bizarre perversion of the laws about tackling in the air.

It's not even tackling which make the whole situation even worse. This isn't intentional, there is no malice in it and it arguably isn't even reckless, Finn Russell was just chasing the damn ball. If anything, Biggar was the one being reckless.

Absolutely ridiculous. Gaining ground and re-gathering the ball from kicks is actually fundamental to winning the game... How Biggar has been criticised on here for that I don't know - and how Lee Byrne getting taken out in the 2009 fixture also gets brought into it...well that just beggars belief. It's threads like this that are the reason hardly any Welsh posters decide to come on here any more. Russell's intentions were to get the ball, but he was reckless, the sort of play which carries a red card. Had he got that I believe his ban would have been just one week. So there's another decision which didn't go Scotland's way right?

I don't think Biggar was being reckless by the letter of the law. He was well within his rights according to the rules. What I don't understand is why the rules are such that a player is allowed to launch themselves into the air while running at full speed, and place the duty for their safety on anyone who happens to be standing in their way. Russell was perfectly entitled to be in that space under the ball. Strange that the rules are such that Biggar can hit Russell in the head with his knee at 20 mph and it's Russell's fault for not jumping out of the way.

Players do the Garryown, Up and under all the time. Suddenly it's reckless play on a moral level? I don't get why people are bringing the knee into this again. He's in the air, Russell is not (as he chose to be reckless instead of properly compete for the ball), so obviously his face would be in line with Biggar's knees..... The laws are there to protect the player in the air with good reason, Biggar could have broken his neck or collar bone given how he landed. He had to drop the ball and prevent that from happening.

Nothing Biggar has done is against the laws of the game. I think it has been exaggerated how reckless people think Biggar was, it sounds like he had his knees tucked into his chest when in actual fact it doesn't even get above his waist. I don't believe Russell knew what he was doing, I suspect it was completely accidental, but he is the one who has made the mistake and has misjudged his position and taken Biggar's legs away dangerously. You can say by the time he got there he had no choice but to do what he did, but he shouldn't put himself in that position. Russell was not standing dead still and Biggar jumped into him, Russell has taken a small run up too and has misjudged it.

Just to add, I don't think Biggar is an angel and I don't believe Russell or his team-mate Hogg are dirty players. But some of the comments on here have been ridiculously one-eyed and nasty to say the least....

Russell didn't "choose to be reckless". He made the tactically wrong choice to try to catch the ball without jumping, and when he saw Biggar's jump he turned his back to protect himself.

I didn't use the word 'moral', nor was that what I was getting at, so save the straw-man argument. Doing an up and under kick isn't reckless. Jumping in the air while running at full speed arguably is so in a purely practical sense, and as the rules are it gives you an unfair advantage as anyone standing within a few metres of where you jump becomes duty bound to get out of your way. Russell is perfectly entitled to stand where the ball will land and try to catch it.

I know what the rules are and as the rules stand Biggar is perfectly entitled to do what he did. I'm not trying to argue it should have been a penalty to Scotland. I'm just arguing that the rules give too much of an advantage to someone jumping in the air and unfairly penalise someone legitimately aiming to catch the ball without leaving the ground.

You say that the rules are there to protect players in the air. That's true, but in practice you could argue that they just encourage more people to do it, creating more dangerous situations.

I don't believe that Biggar is at fault or did anything wrong...but neither is Russell.  Bigger is entitled to jump in the air just as much as Russell is allowed to try and catch the ball whilst being on the ground.  It really isn't Russell's fault that essentially somebody jumped into him.

EST wrote:I don't believe that Biggar is at fault or did anything wrong...but neither is Russell.  Bigger is entitled to jump in the air just as much as Russell is allowed to try and catch the ball standing still.  It really isn't Russell's fault that essentially somebody jumped into him.  

Thank you, that is what I have been saying all along.

+1

Though I can't stand it when someone takes two lines to say something you spent paragraphs on.

Not surprised it's a two week ban. Completely consistent with the way the IRB have said they want it done. If you're going for a high ball jump, if you can't jump for some reason get out of the way.

He's not standing still though is he. He's taken a 5 step (or so) run up and is going to leap and compete, when he sees Biggar get there first at which he goes to defend himself. He's made a misjudgement, not a malicious one, but he deserved his yellow for me.

The Saint wrote:

Higher_Ground wrote:Is there some way someone can point out where Warburton and Biggar asked for a red card, cheers.

I overheard Warburton say it, something along the lines of "that's a red card". When I first watched it I also called for a red card, as going by my knowledge that should have been the punishment for Russell's reckless actions. I never heard Biggar say it, but he was back to his old crying ways after being taken out, though in this instance he had reason to be angry. I only heard Warbs say it once then he was waved on by Jackson. So those comments about him nagging the ref are exaggerated, but just about everything that happened on Sunday has been over-exaggerated by some moaning Scots on here.

Watched it a few times, impossible to hear what Warburton said.
Biggar got up quickly - he could have rolled around and milked it - then walked away shaking his head. Where this idea if him complaining to the ref came from I don't know.

Don't see the material difference in this case. He's positioning himself under the ball to take a catch. Can't see any indication that he was about to jump.

HammerofThunor wrote:Not surprised it's a two week ban. Completely consistent with the way the IRB have said they want it done.  If you're going for a high ball jump, if you can't jump for some reason get out of the way.

I would love to know how that piece of wisdom is actually put in practice.

Players do catch balls without having to jump as well, I am looking at this from an outsider's point of view and simply do not understand how anyone can justify that statement.

A ball is kicked, you get in position and wait for the ball, in your peripheral vision you see Biggar come from above and in the split second you turn away.

Unless the bloke is Flash, how the hell is he going to get away far enough to be not guilty. Your statement suggests the bloke had enough time to see what is happening, evaluate the situation, act and get completely out of the way

The citing is pathetic.

Why else would he take a run up? You don't do that to then stand there and catch it. It matters because some people would have you believe that Russell was standing motionless under a high ball and Biggar jumped straight into him.

JDizzle wrote:He's not standing still though is he. He's taken a 5 step (or so) run up and is going to leap and compete, when he sees Biggar get there first at which he goes to defend himself. He's made a misjudgement, not a malicious one, but he deserved his yellow for me.

As Tomh has stated, it actually makes no difference whether he is moving or stationary (as long as there was no intent to take the player out), Russell is still entitled to be moving towards where he thinks the ball is going to land. As can be seen in the photos in this thread previously, he has his eyes firmly on the ball until Biggar comes into his peripheral vision. Biggar certainly shows superior skills getting to the ball the way he did, but that in an of itself doesn't prohibit Russell also being there.

JDizzle wrote:Why else would he take a run up? You don't do that to then stand there and catch it. It matters because some people would have you believe that Russell was standing motionless under a high ball and Biggar jumped straight into him.

If he was going to jump then he was extremely late. Ball would have hit the ground before he got in the air.

I still don't see why him moving/being motionless makes too much difference. The point is that he entitled to take the catch on the floor and shouldn't be penalised for another player's decision to go into the air.

If people are suggesting penalising Biggar then I see your point, but I haven't seen that.