Dear Vern

by 123456789 Sat 28 Feb 2015, 4:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

Dear MR Cotter

You are still in my opinion the saviour of all things Scottish but even in your infinite wisdoms I beg you to listen to me. We can beat England and Ireland but it will only be possible if:

1. For the love of God pick the two "Killer Bs" with testicles
2. Make one of them captain
3. If you insist on playing a traditional Scottish way pick a traditional scottish scrum-half and by that I mean cusiter or Hidalgo-Clyne. Laidlaw is too slow.
4. Accept that Sean Lamont is too old for an international winger. Fife, Brown or even Visser would have been better
5. Only ever play a specialist 10 at 10 otherwise there is no cohesion.
6. Play Denton at 8, and tell him to get a short, back and sides.
7. Slap anyone who gave away a penalty today. Twice.
8. Don't let anything Johnson does or say influence you.
9. Beg Hines to come out of retirement for 3 games
10. Shout at them
11. A lot
12. Get up them and in their face. Manic aggression. We've been too passive

Vern if you somehow read this, pick this team:

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Hines
5. Gray
6 Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Cusiter
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Dickinson
17. Cross
18. Brown
19. Hamilton
20. Harley
21. Hidalgo-Clyne
22. Scott
23. Brown

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt we'll call it a blip and also acknowledge the fact we have no fly-half and Clancy was in place

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 11:32 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:My vote would still be for Cowan - I thought he played well, and speaks well to the media.

Gray already has a big burden with the lineout (and is only 21), and Hogg is just too far away from the action. Plus captaincy would make him try too much I think - he's effective just now because he chooses his moments well.

Cowan may be a good outside bet. As you say, holding his place in the team well, a bit older, more mature and experienced and close enough to the action to be effective. FB unfortunately, is probably the worst position on the pitch to be a captain which probably rules out Hoggy, though choosing him does have some merit. He certainly needs to start becoming a leader in the team, he is one of the most experienced players now, even at his tender age!

by Majestic83 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 11:37 am

captain carrantuohil wrote:Of all the really successful captains since the RWC started, it's hard to think of many who were not either scrum halves or part of the pack. Kirk, Farr-Jones, Fitzpatrick, Eales, Pienaar, Johnson, Galthie, Berbizier, Smit, McCaw, Sole, Ryan Jones, Warburton.

Possibly the only two exceptions to this have been Carling and O'Driscoll. Both were centres, of course, far enough away from the action, but a lot closer than Hogg would be. More importantly, though, their sides were stuffed full of leaders across the park, making their tasks considerably easier. As captain, Hogg simply wouldn't have that luxury and he isn't close enough to the ball often enough to see what's happening on the pitch and make a difference. It would do nothing to fill the gap in leadership that Scotland currently has. If Barclay or Brown are truly not an option and Laidlaw is to go, then you could do worse than start SH-C and make him captain as well.

It may be a first cap, but that shouldn't matter - Robshaw had the same gig and Carling had played hardly any rugby at all before taking the reins. SH-C strikes me as a nuggety, quick-thinking player, not short of confidence. Like most scrum-halves, he will yap at the ref when he needs to as well. Being young doesn't matter, either - the fact that Gray jr is 21 doesn't disqualify him - it's more that he seems a bit self-effacing for the role. Currently, I don't see anyone else who screams "follow me" at his troops, either literally or by example. Cowan? Where was he when Scotland were playing like headless chickens in the last ten minutes on Saturday, then?

Gavin Hastings?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 11:40 am

Not Cowan. He gives away too many penalties personally and I can already hear Nigel Owens telling him to go away and speak with himself.

I also think his place in the side will duly come under threat from Hamish Watson (and potentially Hugh Blake given time), despite his rocky start to international rugby.

Cowan is fine and will probably have the 7 jersey through the World Cup, but I do see him as a holding operation rather than a long term solution.

by captain carrantuohil Mon 02 Mar 2015, 11:42 am

Ye, a Lions captain and a mighty player, but again, he played in far better sides (both Scottish and Lions) than Hogg would be forced to. I'd also say that highly respected though he was, his success rate wouldn't be the equal of the others I mentioned either (Just checked - think he had something like a dozen matches as captain during the 5 Nations, winning 5 drawing 1 and losing the rest). As a full-back captain, he is probably the exception that proves the rule, certainly since the days of Tom Kiernan and the odd other one.

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 12:13 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Not Cowan. He gives away too many penalties personally and I can already hear Nigel Owens telling him to go away and speak with himself.

I also think his place in the side will duly come under threat from Hamish Watson (and potentially Hugh Blake given time), despite his rocky start to international rugby.

Cowan is fine and will probably have the 7 jersey through the World Cup, but I do see him as a holding operation rather than a long term solution.

In terms of a captain it may be that we have to go with a holding operation until one of the youngsters steps up. As far as the WC is concerned he may just go straight for JS. A bit soon some might say, but he does already captain a lot of those players at Glasgow on a regular basis. He certainly fits the leader of men category!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 12:24 pm

Hmm, I can hear GC disagreeing with me, but it just sits badly with me for JS to parachute straight into the starting XV as captain for the World Cup without ever having previously played for Scotland.

by EWT Spoons Mon 02 Mar 2015, 12:31 pm

I think Dunbar is a decent option as captain.

His place in the side is almost nailed on, he seems to be able to communicate and doesn’t appear to get on the wrong side of refs very often.

I don’t think Hogg is ideal, as I fear his prickly nature will just end up causing more problems with refs

Cowan as pointed out just attracts pens, and like Hogg will probably end up getting on the wrong side of the ref. That said it could potentially have the ‘McCaw variable’, in that he may suddenly become invisible to refs when infringing. But I think that is a stretch.

Johnny has enough on his plate already. Debut season playing for Scotland, calls the lineouts, to put more on his shoulders at this stage is probably just being unfair on the lad. Longer term, potentially, but give him time to settle in first.

by tigertattie Mon 02 Mar 2015, 12:37 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hmm, I can hear GC disagreeing with me, but it just sits badly with me for JS to parachute straight into the starting XV as captain for the World Cup without ever having previously played for Scotland.

I fully agree FES

I do not like this whole project player nonsense as it is, but what kind of message does it send out to youngsters in this country when a project player is placed into a team in time for the world cup and is also given the arm band???

People who should (in my opinion) be options for captain are

Jonny Gray - Who cares if he is 21! If he he can do the job. Give him a crack at it! Gilco isn't much older and he was originally given it!
Alex Dunbar - Seems sensible enough. Has a decent discipline record. Stays on park for the full 80 unless injured

If Kellybrows is picked to play again then he could get the captains armband again

If Ally Hogg ever gets recognition for his form in the Jeff, as a previous captain at Edinburgh, then he would also be a shout!

Other than that, we're rather low on captain potential! Probably explains why we don't have enough leaders on the park!

by Doddy76 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:11 pm

Long term loiterer here, decided after going to the game Saturday that my opinions should be aired....as much to vent my frustration as anything!

On the captaincy front, I think Denton must be in the running if he can stay fit long enough. Looks a good communicator on the field, is composed (remember the JP Pieterson tackle) and handles the media well. At this point I must declare an interest/bias as he is a cousin once removed (my cousins son) but I haven't seen him since we was 8 or 9 though!

by **George Carlin** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:14 pm

tigertattie wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Hmm, I can hear GC disagreeing with me, but it just sits badly with me for JS to parachute straight into the starting XV as captain for the World Cup without ever having previously played for Scotland.

I fully agree FES

I do not like this whole project player nonsense as it is, but what kind of message does it send out to youngsters in this country when a project player is placed into a team in time for the world cup and is also given the arm band???

Oh my god - I'm not sure that I have the energy to get into this again.
Dear Vern - Page 3 Floggi12

I do not think that Strauss should be captain, actually - I was actually kidding about that, hence the tongue in cheek icon.

However, I think that this notion of not having played with the national side before - therefore there will be an appparent lack of coherence to consider - is completely erroneous and largely a synthetic construct. Strauss could potentially pack down with Jonny Gray, Euan Murray, Jon Welsh, Rob Harley and/or Tim Swinson (I really hope that this last one is not true) in a test side - all of whom he plays alongside every week - and he will be invited to attend full training camps, I am quite sure. I don't really care who is captain all that much, provided it works for the players.

The bottom line is that sport is a meritocracy and the best players should play. Lots of people dislike the project players rule, but other sides have worked with it and produced stronger sides as a result. Complain about it, of course - that's what these boards are for - but you might as well stand and look at Bass Rock and scream at the tide not to come in.

by **George Carlin** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:15 pm

Doddy76 wrote:Long term loiterer here, decided after going to the game Saturday that my opinions should be aired....as much to vent my frustration as anything!

On the captaincy front, I think Denton must be in the running if he can stay fit long enough. Looks a good communicator on the field, is composed (remember the JP Pieterson tackle) and handles the media well. At this point I must declare an interest/bias as he is a cousin once removed (my cousins son) but I haven't seen him since we was 8 or 9 though!

Welcome Doddy. Your surname isn't 'Weir' by any chance?

by Doddy76 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:17 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Doddy76 wrote:Long term loiterer here, decided after going to the game Saturday that my opinions should be aired....as much to vent my frustration as anything!

On the captaincy front, I think Denton must be in the running if he can stay fit long enough. Looks a good communicator on the field, is composed (remember the JP Pieterson tackle) and handles the media well. At this point I must declare an interest/bias as he is a cousin once removed (my cousins son) but I haven't seen him since we was 8 or 9 though!
Welcome Doddy. Your surname isn't 'Weir' by any chance?

Thanks and no, I'm afraid not!

by **RDW** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:26 pm

Welcome to the forum Doddy - does this mean we can only say nice things about Denton now??

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:27 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Welcome to the forum Doddy - does this mean we can only say nice things about Denton now??

What will the Glasgow fans post about??

chin

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:30 pm

George Carlin wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Hmm, I can hear GC disagreeing with me, but it just sits badly with me for JS to parachute straight into the starting XV as captain for the World Cup without ever having previously played for Scotland.

I fully agree FES

I do not like this whole project player nonsense as it is, but what kind of message does it send out to youngsters in this country when a project player is placed into a team in time for the world cup and is also given the arm band???
Oh my god - I'm not sure that I have the energy to get into this again.

I do not think that Strauss should be captain, actually - I was actually kidding about that, hence the tongue in cheek icon.

However, I think that this notion of not having played with the national side before - therefore there will be an appparent lack of coherence to consider - is completely erroneous and largely a synthetic construct. Strauss could potentially pack down with Jonny Gray, Euan Murray, Jon Welsh, Rob Harley and/or Tim Swinson (I really hope that this last one is not true) in a test side - all of whom he plays alongside every week - and he will be invited to attend full training camps, I am quite sure. I don't really care who is captain all that much, provided it works for the players.

The bottom line is that sport is a meritocracy and the best players should play. Lots of people dislike the project players rule, but other sides have worked with it and produced stronger sides as a result. Complain about it, of course - that's what these boards are for - but you might as well stand and look at Bass Rock and scream at the tide not to come in.

Not intending to re-hash old ground here. Beattie's performances plus injuries to Ashe and Denton, plus the non-selection of Hogg, plus Wilson being a criminal, allied to Harley slipping in form, makes it 100% certain that JS will be part of the squad.

The captaincy idea is a new thing, and a bridge too far for me. But then again I still think women having the vote is a tad radical.

by Doddy76 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:38 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Welcome to the forum Doddy - does this mean we can only say nice things about Denton now??

Absolutely not, haven't managed to reacquaint myself with him since I moved back up here (was in deepest darkest Englandshire for 15 years) yet but obviously follow his progress. I keep in contact with his mum though so nothing too personal....!! Anyway I have plenty to discuss other than Denton.....don't get me started on the complete lack of atmosphere at M'field on Saturday, the naff pre-match 'entertainment' or the time taken for scrums. Fortunately my 6 year old son at his first ever game doesn't understand enough about the game to be put off (the big bag of Haribo helped to be fair!). Something has to be done though, would kids rather watch that or the 10-0 game of football at Tynecastle on Saturday? Anyway that's all for another thread.....

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:40 pm

Doddy76 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Welcome to the forum Doddy - does this mean we can only say nice things about Denton now??

Absolutely not, haven't managed to reacquaint myself with him since I moved back up here (was in deepest darkest Englandshire for 15 years) yet but obviously follow his progress. I keep in contact with his mum though so nothing too personal....!! Anyway I have plenty to discuss other than Denton.....don't get me started on the complete lack of atmosphere at M'field on Saturday, the naff pre-match 'entertainment' or the time taken for scrums. Fortunately my 6 year old son at his first ever game doesn't understand enough about the game to be put off (the big bag of Haribo helped to be fair!). Something has to be done though, would kids rather watch that or the 10-0 game of football at Tynecastle on Saturday? Anyway that's all for another thread.....

Thanks for clarifying!!

by **RDW** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:44 pm

Well to me that says you have a means for getting us all free Scotland and Edinburgh tickets - awfully nice of you to offer! Hug

by GLove39 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 1:47 pm

Doddy76 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Welcome to the forum Doddy - does this mean we can only say nice things about Denton now??

Absolutely not, haven't managed to reacquaint myself with him since I moved back up here (was in deepest darkest Englandshire for 15 years) yet but obviously follow his progress. I keep in contact with his mum though so nothing too personal....!! Anyway I have plenty to discuss other than Denton.....don't get me started on the complete lack of atmosphere at M'field on Saturday, the naff pre-match 'entertainment' or the time taken for scrums. Fortunately my 6 year old son at his first ever game doesn't understand enough about the game to be put off (the big bag of Haribo helped to be fair!). Something has to be done though, would kids rather watch that or the 10-0 game of football at Tynecastle on Saturday? Anyway that's all for another thread.....

On that, who at the SRU thought ' ~~part~~ sorry, guitar cam' was a good idea!? ]
And yeah the atmosphere did seem very flat, no surprise really given the dross on the pitch. Although I really enjoyed the mass slow clapping as we waited for the scrum to work. Should do that more often!

by Doddy76 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 2:04 pm

GLove39 wrote:
Doddy76 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Welcome to the forum Doddy - does this mean we can only say nice things about Denton now??

Absolutely not, haven't managed to reacquaint myself with him since I moved back up here (was in deepest darkest Englandshire for 15 years) yet but obviously follow his progress. I keep in contact with his mum though so nothing too personal....!! Anyway I have plenty to discuss other than Denton.....don't get me started on the complete lack of atmosphere at M'field on Saturday, the naff pre-match 'entertainment' or the time taken for scrums. Fortunately my 6 year old son at his first ever game doesn't understand enough about the game to be put off (the big bag of Haribo helped to be fair!). Something has to be done though, would kids rather watch that or the 10-0 game of football at Tynecastle on Saturday? Anyway that's all for another thread.....

On that, who at the SRU thought ' ~~part~~ sorry, guitar cam' was a good idea!? ]
And yeah the atmosphere did seem very flat, no surprise really given the dross on the pitch. Although I really enjoyed the mass slow clapping as we waited for the scrum to work. Should do that more often!

But the atmosphere was flat at kick off, could only hear the Azzurri who seemed well up for a party but will have been very disappointed despite their win. Guitar cam and kiss cam totally cringe worthy. The band were very good but why have them in the middle of the pitch with the two teams warming up around them, very distracting! The slow clap didn't hit the North stand where I was but was very appropriate.

by Doddy76 Mon 02 Mar 2015, 2:08 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well to me that says you have a means for getting us all free Scotland and Edinburgh tickets - awfully nice of you to offer!

Mine were free on Saturday (from another source I might add), luckily cos I would have been looking for a refund otherwise!

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 2:54 pm

They must have lifted the idea for 'guitar cam' along with the 'kiss cam' and 'bongo drums cam' from the CG sevens at Ibrox.

They actually went down quite well there, but they had a very good MC, Des Smith talking it up and it was a very different crowd, determined to enjoy themselves come what may. There was no expectation of Scotland winning anything that day, which always helps!

by **George Carlin** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 3:32 pm

I would quite like to have seen a 'you've just missed a vital kick to touch' cam.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 3:39 pm

George Carlin wrote:I would quite like to have seen a 'you've just missed a vital kick to touch' cam.

What, faking injury??

by R!skysports Mon 02 Mar 2015, 4:53 pm

Just wanted to give my thoughts on the OP

1. For the love of God pick the two "Killer Bs" with testicles - Not sure that is the right idea. We have a great fond memory of yesteryear of the mythical K B - but in fact they had a couple of good games. Maybe bring Brown back
2. Make one of them captain -KB Captian - I agree
3. If you insist on playing a traditional Scottish way pick a traditional scottish scrum-half and by that I mean cusiter or Hidalgo-Clyne. Laidlaw is too slow. - I agree
4. Accept that Sean Lamont is too old for an international winger. Fife, Brown or even Visser would have been better - Not Visser - NEVER VISSER - EVER - the rest ok
5. Only ever play a specialist 10 at 10 otherwise there is no cohesion. - Thought Horne played well - so think there is too much knee jerk reaction here
6. Play Denton at 8, and tell him to get a short, back and sides. - Agreed - but considering how limited he is, we do need some beef soon
7. Slap anyone who gave away a penalty today. Twice. - We actaully were very good in the first half - pressure told and a lot of them were forced - rather than soft
8. Don't let anything Johnson does or say influence you. - TRUE
9. Beg Hines to come out of retirement for 3 games - no -that ship has sailed - again a fondness for yesteryear
10. Shout at them - speak quietly gets better results
11. A lot - whisper
12. Get up them and in their face. Manic aggression. We've been too passive - then we give away penalties

by **George Carlin** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 5:00 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I would quite like to have seen a 'you've just missed a vital kick to touch' cam.

What, faking injury??

I am assuming that the cam would focus on Vern's face as he kicks in the side of the management booth.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon 02 Mar 2015, 5:17 pm

Tell you what Cotter, Laidlaw and this load of useless coaches are very, very good at. Ruining the morale of decent young rugby players. 2 players who have had superb seasosns at The Warriors looked shadows of their selves on Saturday - Gray and Harley. How do the SRU fuds think Townsend, Munro and Murray can sort this at Glasgow? Will be even worse when we get humiliated at Twickenham and similarly hammered at Murrayfield by Ireland.

Now have a real respect for Phil Goodlad of the BBC. In his interview with Dickinson he asked "Why do you [plural and referring to teammates as well] come up here mouthing platitudes ?" and "Do you never get really angry after displays like that ? ". Dickinson mumbled something about being professional and that was it. Well that was the only time he was professional on Saturday - I am not just singling Dickinson as he was one of many failures.

Easily the worst 2nd 40 I have ever seen at The Library (that takes some doing tbh Shocked

) , where the atmospshere, even pre-match. was poor. i would have spent less hard earned flying to Dublin and going down to Cork to watch a very good effort by The Warriors v Munster and be entertained by a good game of rugby than watch that pile of sh!te at M'field. Well I know now ffs.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 02 Mar 2015, 5:52 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Easily the worst 2nd 40 I have ever seen at The Library (that takes some doing tbh )

Did you miss Glasgow's performance in the 1872 Cup?

by **BigGee** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 6:04 pm

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Tell you what Cotter, Laidlaw and this load of useless coaches are very, very good at. Ruining the morale of decent young rugby players. 2 players who have had superb seasosns at The Warriors looked shadows of their selves on Saturday - Gray and Harley. How do the SRU fuds think Townsend, Munro and Murray can sort this at Glasgow? Will be even worse when we get humiliated at Twickenham and similarly hammered at Murrayfield by Ireland.

Now have a real respect for Phil Goodlad of the BBC. In his interview with Dickinson he asked "Why do you [plural and referring to teammates as well] come up here mouthing platitudes ?" and "Do you never get really angry after displays like that ? ". Dickinson mumbled something about being professional and that was it. Well that was the only time he was professional on Saturday - I am not just singling Dickinson as he was one of many failures.

Easily the worst 2nd 40 I have ever seen at The Library (that takes some doing tbh ) , where the atmospshere, even pre-match. was poor. i would have spent less hard earned flying to Dublin and going down to Cork to watch a very good effort by The Warriors v Munster and be entertained by a good game of rugby than watch that pile of sh!te at M'field. Well I know now ffs.

To be fair Harley has looked off his game since he came back from injury. Maybe he came back to soon. Don't know what happened to JG though, it is very rare to see him have a quiet game.

by **RDW** Mon 02 Mar 2015, 6:42 pm

JG has played a hell of a lot of rugby this season, with a lot of responsibility on his shoulders.

I'll say if again - he's 21 in pretty much his first full professional season, we need to contain our excitement with him. He needs well managed before the world cup.

by GLove39 Tue 03 Mar 2015, 1:22 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:JG has played a hell of a lot of rugby this season, with a lot of responsibility on his shoulders.

I'll say if again - he's 21 in pretty much his first full professional season, we need to contain our excitement with him. He needs well managed before the world cup.

Nope depressingly Ickle is only 20, 21st not till the 14th of March!!! Born in 1994, he's 6 months younger than me!

by **George Carlin** Tue 03 Mar 2015, 6:52 am

GLove39 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:JG has played a hell of a lot of rugby this season, with a lot of responsibility on his shoulders.

I'll say if again - he's 21 in pretty much his first full professional season, we need to contain our excitement with him. He needs well managed before the world cup.

Nope depressingly Ickle is only 20, 21st not till the 14th of March!!! Born in 1994, he's 6 months younger than me!

My haircut's older than that. picard

by EWT Spoons Tue 03 Mar 2015, 9:44 am

One of the tabloids here is apparently reporting that Johnny Gray is to be handed the captain's armband for the next couple of games.

I've not actually read the article as it's in a paper i don't read, and given it's normally full of rubbish, this is likely to be also rubbish, but thought I'd mention it.

by **BigGee** Tue 03 Mar 2015, 9:46 am

May not be. It is certainly worth considering.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:08 am

He must be on the shortlist (which will indeed be a short list).

With Gilchrist and Richie Gray out, he's also guaranteed to start the next couple of games.

by tigertattie Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:11 am

Oh look, I can post again!

My previous posts failed!

In summary:
Tabloids often make stuff up
If this is true then is laidlaw handing over the armband or is he dropped from the starting line up?
Also, if this is true then it looks like Jonny has cemented his place in the boiler room along side his bro which could mean Gilchrist has missed the boat through his injury!

by Weegie Wizard Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:17 am

I've just managed to read up on all the posts - it took me 3 days to work up the energy to read about the game.

A couple of thoughts

- the people who were not called up to the squad initially will most likely not be called up now. I think Barclay is miles ahead of any other 7 currently available and should be captain but Vern does not agree. If he is going to drop Cowan (which he wont) he has already indicated that Barclay is at best his 4th option.

- in the AIs he preferred Ashe to Beattie so it is likely a fit Ashe will replace him. I actually really like Beattie but agree he has not turned up so far and needs to make way. My preference would be for Denton until Strauss qualifies.

- everyone seems to have decided to hate Tim Visser. Remember when he was waiting to qualify and we all couldn't wait? His tackling was non-existant then but nobody seemed to care. Now everyone does as he is not scoring tries. He isn't scoring because we aren't giving him the ball in space which is not his fault. I don't think he should be starting ahead of Maitland or Seymour but he is a good option to have provided our forwards can win quick ball.

- he probably wont drop Laidlaw

- without Gilchrist or Gray Snr our lineout is going to struggle for the rest of the tournament. This is going to mean defeats in our last 2 games I think.

And at that I will leave you go back to the corner to cry some more.

by **RDW** Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:22 am

It is a fair point on Visser - although he's tackle shy he hasn't done overly much 'wrong', nothing high profile anyway (you could say that is because he doesn't actually do anything!). Lamont catching the ball into touch and Fife doing the same but throwing the ball away being an example of a high profile error. Given they didn't make up for these in the rest of their performance then there is no real reason that it should be forgiven!

Seymour was non-existent on Saturday too but hasn't come under much criticism. Imagine the comments about Visser if he had put in a similar performance.

Visser scored a cracking try for Edinburgh on Sunday because he was given front foot ball and put in space - his strength and speed did the rest. We aren't using our wingers well just now - we have one of the best attacking threats in the tournament in Visser and we just aren't using him.

All they seem to do is kick aimless kicks that are too far away to compete.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:29 am

My views on Visser are well known, but on no planet is Sean Lamont a better left winger. I can live with Seymour and Maitland on the wings in his place, but there's those two and Visser, and then there's the rest (and I include Fife in that).

He is the best finisher we have. No other Scottish winger coverts opportunities better than Visser:

List of achievements

•RaboDirect PRO12 top try scorer for four consecutive seasons (breaking the record with 14 in 2010/11).
•RaboDirect PRO12 dream team winger for four years running
•2011/12 RaboDirect PRO12 Player of the Season
•2009/10 - RaboDirect PRO12 Young Player of the Season
•Edinburgh Rugby top try scorer, second top try scorer in the history of the RaboDirect PRO12
•Only player in the history of the RaboDirect PRO12 to score three hat-tricks

by tigertattie Tue 03 Mar 2015, 11:30 am

If I were picking the wingers for the game at the wasteland, I'd go for Visser and Seymour to be honest!

The England wingers have not been much of a threat this 6ns. The England scores come from strangling thier opposition to death in the middle and then punching through with their centres!

by captain carrantuohil Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:00 pm

Hardly a winger in the tournament has been a threat so far - as far as I can remember, 11 or 14 have scored the princely number of three tries during the nine games so far - one each for Fife, Watson and Venditti, the last of which came from a rebound off a missed penalty.

I don't know if that's some sort of low score for wings but I can't think of a recent tournament to match it (last year, for example, wings had scored seven tries after three matches and the final total for wings was 16). I've really enjoyed most of the games up to now but the 2015 6N has not been notable for wide play by anyone.

by R!skysports Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:09 pm

My thoughts on Visser are also well known

I do not mind so much when people make mistakes but try hard

Visser makes mistakes and does not make any effort at all - coming in to the line, tackling, getting in the right position

He is LAZY and until I see him makign a real effort....then my opinion will stay the same

by R!skysports Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:10 pm

AND before he was Scottish qualified I always was the lone voice saying stop raising him to world class status until he has actually played in the Scotland squad

by funnyExiledScot Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:14 pm

Risky - do you think Sean Lamont is better?

by R!skysports Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:16 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Risky - do you think Sean Lamont is better?

At effort yes - skill level - the same at the moment

so Lamont for me - between the two

by **George Carlin** Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:21 pm

I asked my 3 year old daughter what she thought of Tim Visser.

She voiced a concern that "he has a poo-poo head".

I would think that's fairly definitive. No more 6N action for him.

by Majestic83 Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:22 pm

I've not actually read the article as it's in a paper i don't read, and given it's normally full of rubbish, this is likely to be also rubbish, but thought I'd mention it.[/quote]

Heard a similar rumour from a journo mate that Laidlaw will be dropped for the England game with Gray being captain.

If true I think it is the right call to drop laidlaw on both fronts as I don't think he is captain material and on a playing front he is badly out of form. SHC and Cusister are in better form and also more suited to the style of play Scotland want.

by R!skysports Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:24 pm

George Carlin wrote:I asked my 3 year old daughter what she thought of Tim Visser.

She voiced a concern that "he has a poo-poo head".

I would think that's fairly definitive. No more 6N action for him.

lol

by funnyExiledScot Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:25 pm

Riskysports wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Risky - do you think Sean Lamont is better?

At effort yes - skill level - the same at the moment

so Lamont for me - between the two

Same skill level?? Bizarre.

I like wingers who can score tries. Call me old fashioned.

by Weegie Wizard Tue 03 Mar 2015, 12:28 pm

The point I was trying to make about Visser is that 10-15 is not where our problem lies. If given quick ball, our backs (including Visser if he is playing) will score tries.

Our problem is that 1-8 either cannot win quick ball or take it a few phases too far and give away a penalty or Laidlaw delays at the base or passes to a ball carrier moving at glacial pace.

Whenever Visser has received any ball so far there has been 2 defenders on him as the forwards have not committed defenders or Laidlaw has checked to see if a box kick is on.

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