This is why we love Wayne Barnes.

Review of Wayne Barnes v Ireland 2015:

https://youtu.be/IEuXfewLcuY

Ireland lose again with Barnes as ref. Its getting ridiculous now. 3 wins in the last 13 games v Barnes. Really hope we don't get him for any WC games.

Joe Schmidt also has issues with Barnes:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/joe-schmidt-has-issues-with-wayne-barnes-over-scrum-calls-1.2145742

Graham Henry also suspects something isnt quite right about Barnes' lopsided officiating too

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/07/31/graham-henrys-final-word-on-suspected-match-fixing-in-rwc-2007/

The criminal stupidity is that SOB doesn't realize that by refereeing the breakdown himself he is automatically going to get ignored by an ego like Barnes. I have never met a ref who appreciated constant calling by opposing players who, obviously are biased. Ireland lost because they were well beaten in defense and their One Man Team reliance on Sexton.

You might be right Gwlad. Doesn't make it right though. Wales did manage him better alright. Its frustrating when a ref spoils a game with such a big ego. Personally as a referee I cannot stand him.

There were lots of reasons why Ireland lost and it doesn't hurt as much when it is against such as good side as Wales but Barnes just ruins it every time for me. A common theme is that he doesn't seem to apply the same judgement to our opposition as he does to us which is mind boggling.

They don't rely on Sexton any more than Wales relies on guys like Warburton or Lydiate etc.

He was great on Saturday.

Guns, you are right but that video is sorely biased to show that Barnes 'cheated' which in my view makes it laughable from the get go. Why would barnes cheat?

Fact is SOB was foolish to chat to Barnes who is a renowned egomaniac. Watching the game i think everyone knew that the breakdown was refereed in favor of the team in possession. Refereeing, even by Barnes, is a subject and inexact science. Barnes adds ego like Walsh which IMO no other mainstream ref does.

Ireland lost because they tried to do stuff in the 10/12 channel instead of just carrying all day into the Welsh pack. They were lateral, out kicked and out tackled. Best Wales performance i have seen in years. Sadly, to top it off for Ireland, their talisman Sexton had a total shocker.

Ireland are a classy outfit and Schmidt is superb, IMO they can actually win RWC with their draw. But they need to stop reading the papers and also stop being too smart behind the pack until they have fast ball on the front foot.

Sexton raised the white flag early because he thought to himself: "Here we go.  Just as we predicted.  Playing against a bloody good Welsh team and a Ref who needs them to win"

Barnes killed any momentum Sexton was going to ever build in the fist 20 minutes or so.  Game over.  Sexton rested up for the next game after that  

Whoever made that video is mental,most of those were players going off their feet cos they removed an opponent.There would never be a breakdown without a penalty if you were blowing up for all the things highlighted there.


Now I agree Barnes was very inconsistent in the game,his scrum rulings in particular made no sense and quite possibly contributed to the injury which Lee suffered but it was 1:40 on the video before I saw an example that I completely agreed Barnes obviously got wrong.

However the points made around the 2 minute mark where McGrath was penalised when he was obviously making an effort to roll away versus how the Welsh weren't penalised when they just lay on the wrong side are very pertinent and help explain why we struggled to get quick ball.

Gwlad wrote:Guns, you are right but that video is sorely biased to show that Barnes 'cheated' which in my view makes it laughable from the get go. Why would barnes cheat?

Who is reffing the England French game this weekend?

Nigel Owens

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nigel Owens

You mean Nigel Le Owens, bon viveur et raconteur.

Oh balls. Its a fix I tell you!

It's not a fix. But it is some very unusal reffing, to be diplomatic about it. Especially those Welsh players trying Oh-so-hard to get out of the way

And if Barnes was 'cheating' i.e. he had an agenda to pro due a welsh result, then why give a penalty try?

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nigel Owens

You mean Nigel Le Owens, bon viveur et raconteur.

Steve Walsh isn't it? - that's England done then.

Gwlad wrote:And if Barnes was 'cheating' i.e. he had an agenda to pro due a welsh result, then why give a penalty try?

If you're controlling a game, you can give whatever you want to keep the hounds of suspicion off your doorstep, Gwlad.  Had he been consistent, he'd have given the other one too.  But whatever, the only fact that remains is that he didn't quite manage to offload the hounds of suspicion.

Even you would have to admit that's some personal record he has with Irish sides in the win/loss ratio.

Heaf wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nigel Owens

You mean Nigel Le Owens, bon viveur et raconteur.

Steve Walsh isn't it? - that's England done then.

There you go. I heard both names mentioned too. If Nige was dropped - I'd wonder why? Considered bias danger when considering the day that's in it?

I'm glad to see this thread, though I don't think it's about Barnes. As an England fan, I felt the same way about how Joubert refereed the breakdown two weeks ago as I suspect many Irish fans feel about Barnes.

Both refs interpreted the breakdown in a way that was consistent with the laws... but sufficiently differently that in one game Ireland had a big advantage and in the other a big disadvantage.

In theory it's up to players to adapt to what different refs are looking for, but in practice systems are now so well drilled that most players struggle to adapt, with the result that the ref decides the outcome.

The way I see it, that has to change or rugby will cease to work as a sporting spectacle.

Don't know why we're surprised, although it is pushing it more than a little essentially to accuse a referee of favouring one side to the point of cheating. The word may not have been used but the implication is clear enough.

No, Barnes isn't biased but he is incompetent. In terms of international referees that puts him in a depressingly large company. Much easier to enumerate the whistlers who have consistently good games than those who are either jobsworths in shorts or don't appear to know all the laws. Joubert and Owens are probably still at the top, maybe Kaplan as well if he's still doing it, but this is as poor an era of refs as I've ever seen. England haven't had a really good ref since the days of Morrison and Spreadbury, McHugh was a long time ago from an Irish point of view (Rolland and Clancy aren't/weren't my cup of tea) and what has happened to Scottish refs? Oh my Sansom, Hosie and Fleming of long ago!

Get some ex-players to do the job, just like cricket turns to old pros for its umpires, pay them properly and problem largely solved (unless they're all like Jackson). We'll still bitch about them, of course, but we won't be able to suggest that we know more than them.

I posted this earlier, the only considerable difference with players rolling away before the break and after, was the waving of some arms and the look of 'look at this butter in my mouth, its not even melting' thrown Barnes' way by each player lying on the wrong side.

Maybe thats considered 'every effort', I dont know, I mean its not like any Irish players were doing this were they

It does come across extremely bitter (whether they are or not) to complain about a ref that gave the opponents 2 yellow cards and awarded you a penalty try.

Can we all watch that last rolling maul and how it hits the floor, in comparison with the maul for the penalty try, theres a bit of a difference in the way it comes down.

I'll give you a clue, its the colour of the shirts

SecretFly wrote:

Heaf wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nigel Owens

You mean Nigel Le Owens, bon viveur et raconteur.

Steve Walsh isn't it? - that's England done then.

There you go.  I heard both names mentioned too.  If Nige was dropped - I'd wonder why?  Considered bias danger when considering the day that's in it?

I thought I read that Walsh had a clash and was replaced by Nige. I hope it is that way, because while Nige has lost his way technically in the last 18 months he at least knows what a scrum looks like.

Barnes is great. Not got as nice hair as Stevie W though.

SecretFly wrote:

Heaf wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nigel Owens

You mean Nigel Le Owens, bon viveur et raconteur.

Steve Walsh isn't it? - that's England done then.

There you go.  I heard both names mentioned too.  If Nige was dropped - I'd wonder why?  Considered bias danger when considering the day that's in it?

Steve Walsh business dealings which did for him last weekend also means he can t make this weekend. Owens comes in.

Poorfour wrote:I'm glad to see this thread, though I don't think it's about Barnes. As an England fan, I felt the same way about how Joubert refereed the breakdown two weeks ago as I suspect many Irish fans feel about Barnes.

Both refs interpreted the breakdown in a way that was consistent with the laws... but sufficiently differently that in one game Ireland had a big advantage and in the other a big disadvantage.

No, Poorfour, but Barnes distinctly and clearly lectures POC about his men impeding the 9s access to the ball.  
Yet, we see a litany of blatant examples of the lecture directive not being reffed fairly for both sides.  Consistency for both sides in the one game is what most teams would want rather than consistency between one game and the next one.
All refs interpret differently.  That's normal.  But no ref should interpret differently for two sides in the one game - that's the problem.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Heaf wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nigel Owens

You mean Nigel Le Owens, bon viveur et raconteur.

Steve Walsh isn't it? - that's England done then.

There you go.  I heard both names mentioned too.  If Nige was dropped - I'd wonder why?  Considered bias danger when considering the day that's in it?

Steve Walsh business dealings which did for him last weekend also means he can t make this weekend. Owens comes in.

Jesus Walsh must be making a fortune these last number of weeks!

I would suggest, that after reading some of the things certain Irish members on here have said about Wayne Barnes, that if I ever feel the need to have a bitch about referees being biased or wrong in the Pro12 again, that you would have some degree of sympathy towards me, or is only the Irish that are right about biased/bad referees ?

You not see Barnes give Warburton a talking to before carding him?

No refs are biased against a team. Some of you mustt hink the moon landings were faked!

At least you can hold your heads up high and not be seen as bad losers unlike certain well known (former) posters from new kiwiland.

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:And if Barnes was 'cheating' i.e. he had an agenda to pro due a welsh result, then why give a penalty try?

If you're controlling a game, you can give whatever you want to keep the hounds of suspicion off your doorstep, Gwlad.  Had he been consistent, he'd have given the other one too.  But whatever, the only fact that remains is that he didn't quite manage to offload the hounds of suspicion.

Even you would have to admit that's some personal record he has with Irish sides in the win/loss ratio.

OMG a rugby conspiracy theorist…i wonder where barnes was on 9/11?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You not see Barnes give Warburton a talking to before carding him?

No refs are biased against a team. Some of you mustt hink the moon landings were faked!

It was. God, you gullible guys who believe everything your media tell you...... next you'll be saying Elvis didn't retire to a remote gas Station in the Mojave Desert.

Oh yes and i forgot Sam's yellow, so a yellow to the skipper and to another Welshist and a pen try….yes Barnes deffo has it in for the Irish!

Everyone harps on about consistency but if a ref is consistently hopeless, it's a decidedly mixed blessing. Clancy was relatively even-handed when Scotland played Italy but he gave the appearance of being out of his depth and ultimately abrogated his responsibility completely at scrum-time. Wonderful advertisement for the benefits of impartiality. A free-for-all up front, endless re-set scrums and as dull a game as you could imagine if it weren't for the fact that it was settled in the last minute.

Barnes refereed Ireland-France in the same pedestrian way that he handled Wales-Ireland and looks after a Premiership game on a bog-standard Saturday. Fussily, dourly and without great feeling for the game. Plus ca change. I didn't whine after Ireland won the first and I'm not about to after the loss to Wales, because in all honesty, his lack of ability didn't affect the result on either occasion. It doesn't mean I think he is of international standard.

It would be nice to get a ref who both knows which way is up and has the kind of player-friendly, sympathetic style that blokes like Derek Bevan and Clive Norling showed way back when. That was the amateur era, of course. It may be that I'm expecting too much of anyone to be a referee in an era when so much is at stake but I'm fairly sure that we can improve on the status quo.

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You not see Barnes give Warburton a talking to before carding him?

No refs are biased against a team. Some of you mustt hink the moon landings were faked!

It was.  God, you gullible guys who believe everything your media tell you......  next you'll be saying Elvis didn't retire to a remote gas Station in the Mojave Desert.

If it's in MOjave there is really no need to assert how remote it is, is there oh waxer of lyrics?

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:And if Barnes was 'cheating' i.e. he had an agenda to pro due a welsh result, then why give a penalty try?

If you're controlling a game, you can give whatever you want to keep the hounds of suspicion off your doorstep, Gwlad.  Had he been consistent, he'd have given the other one too.  But whatever, the only fact that remains is that he didn't quite manage to offload the hounds of suspicion.

Even you would have to admit that's some personal record he has with Irish sides in the win/loss ratio.

OMG a rugby conspiracy theorist…i wonder where barnes was on 9/11?

Rolland.................... Rolland............................ Rolland.
The French Speaking Irish Rat.
Burned the Flowering Welsh Dragon,
And created the unmerciful spat.

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You not see Barnes give Warburton a talking to before carding him?

No refs are biased against a team. Some of you mustt hink the moon landings were faked!

It was.  God, you gullible guys who believe everything your media tell you......  next you'll be saying Elvis didn't retire to a remote gas Station in the Mojave Desert.

I thought he was the new stig and about to step in for Clarkson

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You not see Barnes give Warburton a talking to before carding him?

No refs are biased against a team. Some of you mustt hink the moon landings were faked!

It was.  God, you gullible guys who believe everything your media tell you......  next you'll be saying Elvis didn't retire to a remote gas Station in the Mojave Desert.

If it's in MOjave there is really no need to assert how remote it is, is there oh waxer of lyrics?

Is that all you got? You do know the Mojave Desert has many big cities in its sphere of influence???? Is this again the Guy who LIVES in the US? Do some Geography when there, Gwlad. It's int'restin'

Gwlad wrote:Oh yes and i forgot Sam's yellow, so a yellow to the skipper and to another Welshist and a pen try….yes Barnes deffo has it in for the Irish!

At least he got those calls right. 30% success rate then

Comfort wrote:I posted this earlier, the only considerable difference with players rolling away before the break and after, was the waving of some arms and the look of 'look at this butter in my mouth, its not even melting' thrown Barnes' way by each player lying on the wrong side.

Maybe thats considered 'every effort', I dont know, I mean its not like any Irish players were doing this were they

It does come across extremely bitter (whether they are or not) to complain about a ref that gave the opponents 2 yellow cards and awarded you a penalty try.

Can we all watch that last rolling maul and how it hits the floor, in comparison with the maul for the penalty try, theres a bit of a difference in the way it comes down.

I'll give you a clue, its the colour of the shirts

Have to say I agree with this. There was more to Irelands failure to win than the bloke with the whistle.

On another note, if teams actually played within the rules of the game rather than pushing the boundaries then there would be no need for referees interpretation...!

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:You not see Barnes give Warburton a talking to before carding him?

No refs are biased against a team. Some of you mustt hink the moon landings were faked!

It was.  God, you gullible guys who believe everything your media tell you......  next you'll be saying Elvis didn't retire to a remote gas Station in the Mojave Desert.

If it's in MOjave there is really no need to assert how remote it is, is there oh waxer of lyrics?

Is that all you got?   You do know the Mojave Desert has many big cities in its sphere of influence????  Is this again the Guy who LIVES in the US?  Do some Geography when there, Gwlad.  It's int'restin'

The Mojave has a sphere of influence? Wow, does it have a foreign policy too?

Just say you were cooked by its heat, Gwlad. Don't dig another hole by keeping it going. You've dug a few.

SecretFly wrote:Just say you were cooked by its heat, Gwlad.  Don't dig another hole by keeping it going.  You've dug a few.

Which is no reply at all is it? A desert with a sphere of influence. You talk such utter tripe it's fun keeping it going and you really love to project your own perceived superiority on this forum don't you? You remind me of bumping into a cacti.

I am going to be waiting with baited breath for the Irish to tar and feather me next time I talk about biased refs in the Pro12. Where is chunkynorwich when I need him ?

Oh the hypocrisy of it all.

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Just say you were cooked by its heat, Gwlad.  Don't dig another hole by keeping it going.  You've dug a few.

Which is no reply at all is it? A desert with a sphere of influence. You talk such utter tripe it's fun keeping it going and you really love to project your own perceived superiority on this forum don't you? You remind me of bumping into a cacti.

What a spoofer  Trying to talk himself out of a box he stapled himself into.  Moral of the story, keep the smart comments mouthed unless you can back them up.  

Meanwhile:

Mojave Gas Station (non-remote one with bells and whistles on)

LordDowlais wrote:I am going to be waiting with baited breath for the Irish to tar and feather me next time I talk about biased refs in the Pro12. Where is chunkynorwich when I need him ?

Rolland. What a show that was Remember?

A couple of legitimate gripes in there but whoever made the video is clearly a bit confused about the 'off your feet' rule. Also the fact that one team's scrum went forward doesn't necessarily mean they should get the penalty.

SecretFly wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Just say you were cooked by its heat, Gwlad.  Don't dig another hole by keeping it going.  You've dug a few.

Which is no reply at all is it? A desert with a sphere of influence. You talk such utter tripe it's fun keeping it going and you really love to project your own perceived superiority on this forum don't you? You remind me of bumping into a cacti.

What a spoofer  Trying to talk himself out of a box he stapled himself into.  Moral of the story, keep the smart comments mouthed unless you can back them up.  

Meanwhile:

Mojave Gas Station (non-remote one with bells and whistles on)

yet again, no reply is it…like i said, cacti, less pleasant and more pricks

You're still in the box. Typing won't open it.

captain carrantuohil wrote:No, Barnes isn't biased but he is incompetent.

Agreed. During our 2.4million phases, there were maybe 6 incidents, that I was shocked we didn't get pinged for a penalty. Wales had 2 yellows, and a penalty try, all well deserved in my eyes, and all given by Barnes. But he makes just plain weird decisions that display his incompetentcy (Wales not getting some justified penalties throughout the second half, and the series of decisions over the last 3 mins of the match regarding the scrum and maul that some could argue cost us a draw - i say we cost ourselves alot more then that.... ) but he's not biased against us, he's just incompetent. When someone who knows as little about the technical aspects of rugby as quinsforever is singing his praises, you have a pretty big indication of his competence

SecretFly wrote:You're still in the box. Typing won't open it.

And you still talk utter shoite, so stay in your box.

Whoever made that film is wrong on a few of those entering from the sides, as well as other things.

All that video highlights is O'Brien is so high pitched, that only dogs could hear him. Not that he has any right in chatting to refs anyway, as he isn't captain.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I am going to be waiting with baited breath for the Irish to tar and feather me next time I talk about biased refs in the Pro12. Where is chunkynorwich when I need him ?

Rolland.  What a show that was  Remember?

Oh I see, it's only the Irish who are allowed to moan about the refs.

Seriously though SF, can yo not see how hypocritical the whiter than white font of all rugby knowledge Irish are being on here ?

Look, I do not mean to be funny, but after all the batterings I have taken off the Irish on this very forum for accusing refs in the Pro12 of bias, then we get threads like this, not only after but before the game.
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