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Johnny Wilkinson to join England coaching setup as kicking coach?

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Johnny Wilkinson to join England coaching setup as kicking coach? Empty Johnny Wilkinson to join England coaching setup as kicking coach?

Post by quinsforever Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:57 pm

Good news if true. His experience at the top of the game, his mental approach, winning World Cups, HC's, top14s, being captain and talisman. That is a MASSIVE boost to England's current coaching setup. Bomber and Farrell never made it as players in Union. Not faulting them for that. Wilko's value in the camp will be inestimable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32035225

and boy did he learn the art of motivation and player management by the end of his time at Toulon...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNp8s41-Yi0

Happy Happy Days



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Post by Geordie Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:37 am

Good....our tactical kicking is appalling. As is the chase.


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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:45 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Good....our tactical kicking is appalling. As is the chase.


Sadly that was not the best part of JWs game (other than the little chip kick).

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:50 am

It's odd because our kick-chase game was good, even very good, against Wales. We competed for most of the box-kicks and up-and-unders. After that, it became awful, for no particularly good reason. Youngs kicked well in the AIs, but generally poorly in the 6N, while Ford, whose kicking from hand is usually excellent for Bath, also struggled.

What I mean to say is, there's no reason England's kicking game shouldn't be very good, so here's hoping getting Wilko in will help there.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:52 am

Go back and look who was chasing the kicks in Cardiff.

then watch Kieran Brookes trying to chase a box kick against france.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:56 am

I assume you're talking about May, who's chase is indeed a strong part of his game. Having said that, Joseph and Watson were also chasing the kicks, and doing a very good job of it. I think it's more to do with our kickers losing their range, and kicking too long for the most part.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:01 am

Against Wales we went with the intention of playing territory. that has been shown to be their weakness so a logical choice. this means the players were ready to chase, on the front foot and off like greyhounds.

Ignoring Dublin, where we were on the back foot, we tried to play a running game against the other teams. this meant our outside backs were not pushed up ready to chase the kick.

this ultimately means that while Youngs may well have been putting his box kicks the same height and distance in all games (not sure if that is true) with runners not primed and ready to chase he needed to shorten the range compared to the Wales game.

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Post by lostinwales Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:05 am

It did seem, from my limited understanding, that in the Ireland game (the first without May) Ford was putting kicks into the same areas as he was in the previous 2 games, but nobody was there challenging. It looked at times as if he was trying to play a different game from the rest of the team, and we did miss May that game.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:18 am

granted for some situations, but from receiving kick-offs? I mean, England's exit strategy is fairly simple (and is the same as pretty much all teams). Work enough of an angle for the SH, with the winger back in play, then box-kick. Against Wales they did that well and competed, against the other teams they didn't. I haven't watched back those moments, but I can't believe that every time Youngs kicked straight to the opposition it was because our winger wasn't primed for the chase?

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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:24 am

He was kicking too far - just not sure he was kicking any further than at MS.

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Post by Geordie Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:01 am

Too be honest...it is that difficult to know where to kick when your a fully paid professional rugby player.

Us armchair critics can see where the space is or where the kicks should go so why can the England team not execute it.

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Post by TightHEAD Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:04 am

Should have happened a long time ago, look at 1/2p he rarely misses and I'm sure that is because he has had Neil Jenkins coaching him, Get Wilko involved as its the only weak part of Fords game imo, a lot of people still moan that Fords defence is his weakness but to be fair to the little lad he punches above his weight and if he does get bumped off a tackle he is straight back up to have another go.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:06 am

I think this will do wonders for England's kickers, just take a look what Neil Jenkings has done for Leigh Halfpenny and Dan Biggar, knwoledge from people who have been there seen and bought the T shirt is invaluable.

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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:14 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Too be honest...it is that difficult to know where to kick when your a fully paid professional rugby player.

Us armchair critics can see where the space is or where the kicks should go so why can the England team not execute it.

GF next time get 16 blokes to lie in a big heap on your living room floor. Shove your hands down in that writhing mass of humanity with your head down among the arses. Can you still see the view that the elevated cameras are giving you on your TV screen?


Kicking too long, while better than too short as rhys Webb found out, has been a perennial problem for england. I remember plenty of moans about how Wilkinson was sitting in the pocket and just belting the ball aimlessly down the field

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Post by SecretFly Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:39 am

I thought Wilkinson was in as pundit for ITV coverage?

Is he going to be going upstairs and downstairs in a dual role as coach and pundit?

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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:03 pm

He currently works one week in four with ~Toulon in a coaching capacity. the same is being proposed here - though of course an International squad are not together all the time.

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Post by Poorfour Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:17 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Good....our tactical kicking is appalling. As is the chase.


Sadly that was not the best part of JWs game (other than the little chip kick).

It's true to the extent that his tackling and place kicking were more visible, but I don't remember him ever having been a poor tactical kicker. He didn't do much in the way of up and unders but in those days the kick chasers didn't have the advantages they do today. His ability to send pinpoint crossfield kicks was very good and it wasn't often that England played in the wrong part of the field.
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Post by Cyril Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:29 pm

It's fantastic to hear that the greatest human being who ever picked up a rugby ball will be involved with England.

As much for his drive and aura as his technical skills and experience. As a positive example to young players (or those getting a bit above themselves) he's second to none.

Obviously, allied to this, we need to get Austin Healey involved too, to ensure the old English arrogance doesn't completely dissapear Smile

Agree with PoorFour about Jonny's cross-field kicks. They were a real weapon for England in the, ahem, glory days. Especially with tall players like Cohen.

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Post by SecretFly Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:55 pm

Laugh

Healey: Arrogance Nostalgia Protection Coach

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Post by dummy_half Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:08 pm

Compare and contrast - Johnny Wilkinson and Austin Healy

Wilkinson - Hugely successful for both England and Toulon. Adored by fans of both and admired across the rugby community. Comes across and intelligent and humble.

Healy - Best represented by the story of when he was punched playing for Leicester and the ref asked Johnno if he saw anything. The response was along the lines of "Wasn't me, but I see 28 potential suspects"

Very Happy

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Post by LondonTiger Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:12 pm

dummy_half wrote:Compare and contrast - Johnny Wilkinson and Austin Healy

Wilkinson - Hugely successful for both England and Toulon. Adored by fans of both and admired across the rugby community. Comes across and intelligent and humble.

Healy - Best represented by the story of when he was punched playing for Leicester and the ref asked Johnno if he saw anything. The response was along the lines of  "Wasn't me, but I see 28 potential suspects"

Very Happy

Do not disagree with any of that.


Would still rather have Healey as backs/attack coach ahead of Catt/Farrell (or indeed JW)

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Post by dummy_half Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:16 pm

LT

I think Healy was a really class player, as shown by his versatility and frequent good performances both for Leicester and England. Not sure he has the right character to be a good coach though - may know the technical stuff but would he be able to get players to buy into his plans, or do you think Lawes would just deck him after 10 minutes...

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Post by Gwlad Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:17 pm

If so it seems odd timing, why not year ago?

Anyway, it will obviously make all the difference to England to have the one man show back on the bill.

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Post by majesticimperialman Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:45 pm

I think this is the best idea to date. We need some one like him to help show and coach the kicker in how to do it right.

Welcome on board Johnny.

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Post by cb Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:51 pm

What slightly worries me is that the England squad were more or less together from the end of January to the middle of March.  You would therefore expect the basics to improve with the coaching received.  Yet as was pointed out above the best kick/chase was the first match.

When skill levels are inversely proportional to the amount of coaching/time, this seems to underline an issue?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:39 pm

If the players all stayed the same yes.

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