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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

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Post by hazharrison Tue 14 Apr 2015, 5:05 am

This is sublime - enjoy!

http://fromthevault.hbo.com/haglerhearns#home

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 14 Apr 2015, 7:29 am

Cheers Haz

Truss is going to love you.......

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Post by hazharrison Tue 14 Apr 2015, 9:45 am

If it helps, I was pulling for Tommy!!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 9:50 am

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Cheers Haz

Truss is going to love you.......

My favorite fight..................The one everyone was talking about at school.........Helped with Marv being local-ish.....

50/50 after the Duran annihilation..............I picked Tommy my brother went for Marv...........No one saw it going twelve !!

Big question was.............Could Marv take Tommy's shot ???

I was lucky I got to see it prime time...................You Brits would have had to watch it at 3am If at all............

Great fight and the night Marv became great...

Hagler to Larry Merchant................ "I asked you before If I was great.....Am I great now !!"

The answer ...........................Yes.


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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 14 Apr 2015, 9:52 am

Joking aside I've watch this fight with my dad many of time when I was a kid on VHS.

Its his favourite fight as he has always had a soft spot for Marv.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 14 Apr 2015, 9:53 am

I remember watching in bed as a kid (in black and white). I was tucked in to almost boa constrictor levels (that's how Dads rolled in the early 80s) and recall trying to throw punches under the blankets. It blew my mind.

I wonder how it might have unfolded if Hearns hadn't broken his hand in the opener? He didn't have much luck in the big ones, Tommy.

That is a superlative bit of writing.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 9:57 am

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Joking aside I've watch this fight with my dad many of time when I was a kid on VHS.

Its his favourite fight as he has always had a soft spot for Marv.

Why I liked Tommy best out of the fab 4 ...Is he had the most class....

Not that it probably mattered but he broke his hand in the first round (The pattern was set by then) But instead of making an issue he said to Steward "Don't mention it it's Marv's night let him get his due!!" (David Haye take note!!)

Also remember James shuler one of his best wins !! Dying in a bike crash six days after Tommy stretched him...

Hearns sent his family the NABF belt he'd won days before with the note..........."Looked better on him than it does on me!!"

Always was the most fan-friendly out of the four !!..............Known for giving up his time..

A good man..

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Post by hazharrison Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:01 am

Tommy Hearns is boxing's ultimate action hero. My favourite ever by a country mile.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:05 am

hazharrison wrote:Tommy Hearns is boxing's ultimate action hero. My favourite ever by a country mile.

He is and he doesn't get his just due......

Too game........

My favorite memory of the fight was Steele taking Hagler to the Doctor to look at the cut.... and being told before he even looked at it...

"Let him go It's not bothering his sight!!" Laugh Laugh

Often forgotten how close (Taylor-Chavez style) Steele came to ruining that night !!

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:09 am

Tommy is my favourite aswell.

The Leonard fights do bug me though. Just imagine him against Floyd Smile

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Post by hazharrison Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:20 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:Tommy Hearns is boxing's ultimate action hero. My favourite ever by a country mile.

He is and he doesn't get his just due......

Too game........

My favorite memory of the fight was Steele taking Hagler to the Doctor to look at the cut.... and being told before he even looked at it...

"Let him go It's not bothering his sight!!" Laugh Laugh

Often forgotten how close (Taylor-Chavez style) Steele came to ruining that night !!

I thought he said: "Can you see Marvin?" and Hagler snarled back: "I'm not missing him am I?"

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:39 am

Yeah, Hearns always seemed to come across as all class. Think Leonard probably summed it up on Ringside when he said that Tommy was basically "a sweetheart."

Actually, he was all class after the Leonard rematch, too. Most would have justifiably been complaining about the decision. Hearns just said something along the lines of, "I'm proud to get a draw against Ray, the judges could have gone the other way" in his post-fight interview.

What a scowl he had on him, though. That Benitez staredown was classic. Interesting that Plomo Quinones says in Duran's 'Hands of Stone' biography by Christian Guidace that Duran never liked being around Hearns at boxing events or at ringside, even years before they'd fought, and that he always seemed a bit intimidated and spooked by him. There's a couple of stories from Quinones and Manny Steward telling how Hearns, in a playful nature, would sneak up on Duran when he had his back turned and just tap him on the shoulder of aim a little poke at his ribs, and after turning round and seeing who it was Duran would almost leap back and then go all quiet for the rest of the night whenever Hearns was within thirty yards of him. Usually, even if he was on semi-good terms with a fighter anywhere near his weight class, Duran would remind them that he was going to hammer them if they ever fought as he exchanged pleasantries. Not so with Tommy.

Duran wasn't easily scared as we know! But if those stories are true then God only knows how he must have been feeling as he climbed through those ropes to face Hearns in his boxing trunks rather than a three-piece suit.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:47 am

While he called Hagler and Leonard out repeatedly after their fights............

He never called Hearns out again....

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Post by hazharrison Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:51 am

Duran's demeanour was even weird during the fight with Hearns. After being floored (was it in the opener?) he had a look that said "'Frak am I supposed to do with this guy?!!". He even laughed at a guy with jheri curls dressed like Leonard who was running up and down at ringside while taking a standing count. Contrast that with the Duran that looked as though he could eat nails before the first Leonard fight.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 10:54 am

Even more worrying he fought a guy six inches taller with the best jab in the sport.....

On the outside !! Laugh

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 11:24 am

Yeah, I don't know why he didn't just draw the lead from Hearns, set traps with his footwork and then dart inside to break Tommy down with short body hooks, push him back to the ropes and then spark him with an uppercut or something, Truss!

See, this is why I can never really buy the idea that Duran outright 'ducked' McCallum (he was stripped of his WBA 154 lb belt for fighting Hearns rather than his mandatory in McCallum as you'll know). From the outset, that's like leaping out the way of a small car deliberately in to the path of a freight train.

Obviously, taking out the fact that a Hearns fight was far, far more lucrative than a McCallum defence at the time, the other theory is that, somehow, Hearns was seen as being more beatable than McCallum at the time in light of two pretty underwhelming back-to-back fights against Sutherland and Minchillo, where Hearns' power hadn't looked all that remarkable. When his fifteen-rounder against Benitez (whose career by now was falling by the wayside, perhaps taking a bit of the shine off Hearns' win unfairly) had been added, that made it three fights on the spin where Hearns had gone the full distance and a few felt that maybe his power, while respectable, just hand't carried up to Light-Middle all that much.

But was that really enough to make people think he was more beatable at the time than McCallum, whose only win of significance at that stage had been Kalule? Just doesn't seem to add up for me, though of course I'm looking at it retrospectively with Hearns rolling Duran like a drunk at the forefront of my mind as I write this. I know the captain has argued that, though it seems impossible now, most were giving Duran more of a chance against Hearns than they were McCallum - anyone else from that era who can give their take and memories on that particular one?

Pretty sure McCallum would have beaten Duran at that point in any case, but could he have really dished out the kind of hammering that Hearns did? Given that Duran was apparently scared witless of Hearns but still got in the ring against him despite facing multiple disadvantages, I don't think he deserves too much scorn for failing to accommodate McCallum at that point of his career, really.
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Post by AdamT Tue 14 Apr 2015, 12:17 pm

Tommy Hearns was my dads favourite at the time. Hearns was as exciting as you could get.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 12:27 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Yeah, I don't know why he didn't just draw the lead from Hearns, set traps with his footwork and then dart inside to break Tommy down with short body hooks, push him back to the ropes and then spark him with an uppercut or something, Truss!

See, this is why I can never really buy the idea that Duran outright 'ducked' McCallum (he was stripped of his WBA 154 lb belt for fighting Hearns rather than his mandatory in McCallum as you'll know). From the outset, that's like leaping out the way of a small car deliberately in to the path of a freight train.

Obviously, taking out the fact that a Hearns fight was far, far more lucrative than a McCallum defence at the time, the other theory is that, somehow, Hearns was seen as being more beatable than McCallum at the time in light of two pretty underwhelming back-to-back fights against Sutherland and Minchillo, where Hearns' power hadn't looked all that remarkable. When his fifteen-rounder against Benitez (whose career by now was falling by the wayside, perhaps taking a bit of the shine off Hearns' win unfairly) had been added, that made it three fights on the spin where Hearns had gone the full distance and a few felt that maybe his power, while respectable, just hand't carried up to Light-Middle all that much.

But was that really enough to make people think he was more beatable at the time than McCallum, whose only win of significance at that stage had been Kalule? Just doesn't seem to add up for me, though of course I'm looking at it retrospectively with Hearns rolling Duran like a drunk at the forefront of my mind as I write this. I know the captain has argued that, though it seems impossible now, most were giving Duran more of a chance against Hearns than they were McCallum - anyone else from that era who can give their take and memories on that particular one?

Pretty sure McCallum would have beaten Duran at that point in any case, but could he have really dished out the kind of hammering that Hearns did? Given that Duran was apparently scared witless of Hearns but still got in the ring against him despite facing multiple disadvantages, I don't think he deserves too much scorn for failing to accommodate McCallum at that point of his career, really.

Not sure the point of drawing leads while you're backing off...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 12:31 pm

Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

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Post by Coxy001 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 12:56 pm

hazharrison wrote:If it helps, I was pulling for Tommy!!

Truss pulls off over Tommy! Wink

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Post by Coxy001 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:04 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

No top 10 fighter like Hearns should lose to someone like Barkley either. Twice.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:05 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

No top 10 fighter like Hearns should lose to someone like Barkley either. Twice.

You've got Hearns top10 ATG??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:09 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

No top 10 fighter like Hearns should lose to someone like Barkley either. Twice.

Rolling Eyes

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:22 pm

Well if you think that what happened against Hearns automatically disqualifies Duran from top ten discussions Truss then fair enough, we all have our own methods of rating fighters and put different amounts of emphasis on different things. But I just don’t understand why, if that’s the take you have on Duran-Hearns, you don’t take the same stance with Spinks-Tyson. Pretty sure you’ve rated Spinks as your Fighter of the Decade for the eighties and mentioned him as a dark horse for an all-time top ten spot, haven’t you?

The parameters of the fights are pretty similar, for me. Above their best weights but evidently not poor in those weight classes either as other fights / results show, probably a shade past their peaks but not washed up either and in there against guys who were wrecking machines, in the prime of their life and more naturally-suited to the division the fights took place in. Maybe the swiftness and one-sidedness of their defeats surprised a few, but the pair of them were both pretty big underdogs going in.

Can’t help but feel that you give Spinks a bit more leeway on that one if we’re comparing the two instances. Duran was made to look foolish, fragile and scared by Hearns – but so too was Spinks by Tyson.
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Post by Coxy001 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:31 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

No top 10 fighter like Hearns should lose to someone like Barkley either. Twice.

You've got Hearns top10 ATG??

Divisionally, yes?

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:37 pm

Ok, but think Truss is referring to ATG i.e. p4p.

Even Truss probably doesn't have Duran outside Top 5 LW ATG.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:41 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Even Truss probably doesn't have Duran outside Top 5 LW ATG.

Think if Broner had racked up a couple of more defences at 135 it might have been touch and go, though.
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Post by DuransHorse Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:43 pm

I won't excuse Duran for the Hearns performance, I will just say that just about every physical advantage was with Hearns anyway, stylistically Duran was likely to take a full on shot at some point and no one wants to be doing that with Tommy, then as Chris mentioned Hearns has a major psychological hold over Duran too.

As for Tommy and Marv, loved Tommy and wanted him to win but seriously respected Marv after that performance and didn't begrudge him the win. Most have this as one the greatest fights of all time, if not the greatest. If half of all fights were like that Boxing would be the most followed sport in the world.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 14 Apr 2015, 1:56 pm

As Truss says it was potentially one of the most ridiculous bits of refereeing you'll ever see, the cut was on his forehead and watching on a TV screen you can tell it's affecting his vision.

The moment Hagler stood up to 'that' right hand the fight was effectively over, the pace and brutality had been set, no matter what Hearns from then on was stopping him getting knocked out.

It produced one of the sports iconic images of Hagler strutting around with his arms held aloft but also one of it's most shocking seeing Hearns carried out like he was a child.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:03 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Even Truss probably doesn't have Duran outside Top 5 LW ATG.

Think if Broner had racked up a couple of more defences at 135 it might have been touch and go, though.

Have Broner higher already............He's a legend.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 2:24 pm

laughing

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:21 pm

Coxy001 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

No top 10 fighter like Hearns should lose to someone like Barkley either. Twice.

You've got Hearns top10 ATG??

Divisionally, yes?

Divisionally my a*8e.........

You think Hearns is Top 10...........You spanner.

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Post by Coxy001 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Certainly jerk off material seeing Duran battered and left face down..

Awful, awful performance...........

Why I can't have him Top 10............No Top 10 fighter should be made to look a complete novice..

No top 10 fighter like Hearns should lose to someone like Barkley either. Twice.

You've got Hearns top10 ATG??

Divisionally, yes?

Divisionally my a*8e.........

You think Hearns is Top 10...........You spanner.

Truss, I would have thought my mistake would have been fairly obvious by the fact I derided him for losing to Barkley. Twice. Numpti.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:48 pm

You know I have Duran in my ATG top 12 and have him in any lightweight top 2...With Benny..

Don't try to deny you're clueless..........

Divisional my backside..


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Post by Coxy001 Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:52 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You know I have Duran in my ATG top 12 and have him in any lightweight top 2...With Benny..

Don't try to deny you're clueless..........

Divisional my backside..


You won't want to know how low down I have Hearns on my ATG list, as he's not top 10 in anyones book (not even a fanboys American book). Hence the reference to how a "top 10 (DIVISIONAL) fighter" shouldn't be made to look like so average by the god average Barkley - it would take a mad man to rank him top 10 and someone of equal intelligence to think I was placing him in the top 10 ATG list.

I'm surprised you even have him that high as well.


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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 14 Apr 2015, 3:56 pm

A lot of top ten divisional boxers have lost to worse than Iran Barkley Coxy, hell Duran was made to look average by Laing and Simms does that mean he's not top ten at lightweight?

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Post by Atila Wed 15 Apr 2015, 4:17 am

I woke up really early to listen to Hagler v Hearns on the radio. I think it was on closed circuit at a cinema in Manchester but I was too young to drive there at the time.

The commentator, who I think was Ian Darke, couldn't keep up with the action. I got to see it later in the day though. Great fight!

Hagler was sure lucky that his inferiority complex didn't kick in for this fight.

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Post by jimdig Wed 15 Apr 2015, 6:52 am

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe Tommy broke his hand. He showed no grimace of signs of protecting it. It seemed like an excuse to get a rematch to me.

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Post by Atila Wed 15 Apr 2015, 6:57 am

jimdig wrote:Call me a cynic, but I don't believe Tommy broke his hand. He showed no grimace of signs of protecting it. It seemed like an excuse to get a rematch to me.
I've wondered about that too jimdig. I don't know if it was proven that he had a broken hand or that he had weak legs due to having a massage before the fight.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 15 Apr 2015, 10:22 am

Atila wrote:I woke up really early to listen to Hagler v Hearns on the radio. I think it was on closed circuit at a cinema in Manchester but I was too young to drive there at the time.

The commentator, who I think was Ian Darke, couldn't keep up with the action. I got to see it later in the day though. Great fight!

Hagler was sure lucky that his inferiority complex didn't kick in for this fight.

Only kicked in in alternate super fights Wink

No idea re the hand, but the leg massage thing was one of manny's more straw/clutching excuses I always thought.

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Post by milkyboy Wed 15 Apr 2015, 10:42 am

I'm going to leave myself open to some serious milky baiting but this isn't one of my favourite fights. All action slugfest yes, but like my sex life it was all a bit frantic and over too quickly.

Lacked a bit of drama too. The first round was fantastic, but after that, unless it was stopped on cuts, the result was pretty obvious...marv was never going to lose if he could close the range and tommy couldn't/wouldn't create space to bring his jab I into play and leverage his shots. Had tommy bided his time ( or marv let him) depending on your opinion I'm sure the result would have been the same, but it would, to me at least, have been a longer and more interesting fight.

I actually Preferred the hagler  Mugabi fight, at least there was some doubt about it for a few rounds and a bit of ebb and flow.

I appreciate it was a slugfest between two great fighters which elevates it and it was obviously still a great fight while it lasted. Clearly, I'm nitpicking, it's  just not a big personal favourite.

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by Strongback Wed 15 Apr 2015, 10:46 am

milkyboy wrote:I'm going to leave myself open to some serious milky baiting but this isn't one of my favourite fights. All action slugfest yes, but like my sex life it was all a bit frantic and over too quickly.

Lacked a bit of drama too. The first round was fantastic, but after that, unless it was stopped on cuts, the result was pretty obvious...marv was never going to lose if he could close the range and tommy couldn't/wouldn't create space to bring his jab I into play and leverage his shots. Had tommy bided his time ( or marv let him) depending on your opinion I'm sure the result would have been the same, but it would, to me at least, have been a longer and more interesting fight.

I actually Preferred the hagler  Mugabi fight, at least there was some doubt about it for a few rounds and a bit of ebb and flow.

I appreciate it was a slugfest between two great fighters which elevates it and it was obviously still a great fight while it lasted. Clearly, I'm nitpicking, it's  just not a big personal favourite.


So did Ray Leaonard.

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by 88Chris05 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 10:51 am

Drawing analogies between fights and our sex lives, eh? Interesting. No doubt Coxy's would be best represented by the first Battling Nelson-Joe Gans fight; a super-human feat of endurance and stamina, and hotter than hell to boot.

I suppose mine would be best compared to Pacquiao-Mayweather; hasn't happened yet but I've thought about it a lot, done plenty of talking about it and am looking forward to the big day finally arriving, hopefully in the near future.
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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:03 am

Mine would be Tzuyu against Judah, takes me at least two attempts to get up and even then I end up flopping around on the floor.

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:07 am

I'm not even sure Hagler wanted the explosive first round......

My take is he wanted to pressure Hearns....But got wobbled and had no choice when Hearns got excited and looked to capitalise....

Hearns initiated the war not Hagler..........In my opinion.


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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by ShahenshahG Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:07 am

Mine would be like Mayweather ortiz. Mount the bitch when she's not looking.

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by Adam D Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:08 am

How did everyone score the first two rounds as a matter of interest?

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:11 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Mine would be Tzuyu against Judah, takes me at least two attempts to get up and even then I end up flopping around on the floor.

Mine is Nunn v Tate..................I'm s**t hot and she's always flattered to deceive..

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by Hammersmith harrier Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:12 am

Don't think i've ever actively scored the fight to be honest Adam unless it goes past four it seems a bit pointless especially when you've always known it ends in the third.

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Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell Empty Re: Hagler-Hearns: 8 Minutes In Hell

Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 15 Apr 2015, 11:13 am

10-10
10-9 Hag
Timbahhhhhhhhh

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