Silly season transfer rumours (continued)....

First topic message reminder :

Continuation of the previous thread from the esteemed Mister GeordieFalcon:
https://www.606v2.com/t57129-silly-season-transfer-rumours

SirBurger wrote:Where has Nadolo said he wants to play 12 and not on the wing?

Had read it in a Fijian article not long ago will try and find it.

He didn't say he didn't want to play wing just he prefers 12.

GF I did say IF FULLY FIT.

If croft isn't 100% I wouldn't start Williams has played lock so still provides the lineout option like Gibson did.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Welly wrote: Fonua will be starter next season from what I have heard he is doing well in preseason.

If all fit our backrow would look like this next season

6) Croft, 7) O'Connor, 8) Fonua.

That was going on the season after, of course Pearce isn't near international yet he still has a lot to learn. Same with Williams.

I suppose I have watched a lot of those players when I can since they were announced as coming/signed but I do see potentially our most balanced back row we have had for a while with those 3.

Although it will happen will be peed if Hughes is selected for England. Ewers to me is a 6 not an 8 and why he isn't in England shirt now I do not know. Beaumont is also one to watch and adds a different type of 8 to the ones England have already.

100% agree. Ill be MASSIVELY Peed off if Hughes is in an England shirt.

And Ewers should be in the England squad. The fact he's not highlights that Lancaster often fecks up his selections policy quite considerably!

I've no issues with Hughes playing for England, I think he's a huge talent, potentially world class.

Ewers is from Zimbabwe, Vuinipola's Aus/Tongan etc, Tuilagi Samoan. The rules are in place and every other nation (bar SA) exploits them.

Bit of a difference between Ewers, Tuailgi and Vunipola and Hughes in fact a major difference between them IMO.

Surely it would be better Hughes plays for Fiji.

England have enough non English born as it is. The likes of Vunipola bros,Tuilagi and Barritt have added to the English national side but we shouldn't encourage more.

There might be more of a need if we were lacking in depth but we are not.

Why? There will all be born out of the country and will have took up residence at some point in their lives.

The only difference is the amount of time they've been here, wether that be 2, 5 or 6 years.

The residency rule is 3 years, until it's changed I can't see an issue.

beshocked wrote:Surely it would be better Hughes plays for Fiji.

England have enough non English born as it is. The likes of Vunipola bros,Tuilagi and Barritt have added to the English national side but we shouldn't encourage more.

There might be more of a need if we were lacking in depth but we are not.

Agree also the likes of Ewers, Vunipolas and Manu at least we're in the UK before turning Pro.

If we were struggling for 8's maybe but we are not.

He should play for either Samoa or Fiji IMO.

Both have approached Hughes and he's rejected them. I imagine he's lined up for England next season.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Why? There will all be born out of the country and will have took up residence at some point in their lives.

The only difference is the amount of time they've been here, wether that be 2, 5 or 6 years.

The residency rule is 3 years, until it's changed I can't see an issue.

All were in this country before playing pro rugby pretty big difference IMO.

All have only played pro rugby in England.

Hell Manu and the Vunipolas have played for England U20.

Hughes has represented Fiji already in the Warriors set up which IMO means he shouldn't be able to play for us.

We know he has rejected them. By considering he has played A team rugby for Fiji IMO he should have to stay by it, it was only down to a stupid loophole he is eagle to play for England.

Yeah it's pretty nailed on he'll play for England. Great player, still rubbish rules.

Welly wrote:

SirBurger wrote:Where has Nadolo said he wants to play 12 and not on the wing?

Had read it in a Fijian article not long ago will try and find it.

He didn't say he didn't want to play wing just he prefers 12.

Very interesting indeed.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah it's pretty nailed on he'll play for England. Great player, still rubbish rules.

I don't understand the rush though.

We have Vunipola, Morgan, Ewers if required (looks like he's not rated by Lancaster)
Beaumont, a different type of 8. And a few others coming through.

Why then rush this Fijian lad into the set up (assuming they will of course) and take that away from the Fijians or Samoans.

It annoys me a lot.

And yes its 3 years residency BUT it really genuinely needs to be fixed...5-7 years!

Will Hughes be able to get past Billy or Morgan for England though?

Declaring for another team doesn't make you an automatic pick.

Rokodiguini is EQed but he hasn't strolled into the England 23.

Hughes is the best 8 in the AP imo.

I think he topped meters, offloads, defenders beaten for a forward (and most backs). More interesting from an England point of view, he had the most turnovers in the league.

He's got his flaws, ie he can be lazy in defence but he's a special talent. Imagine Billy V, Hughes and Mako in the same pack.

Hughes could be the best of the lot for me. I disagree with the qualification but Lancaster won't be doing his job correctly if he doesn't tie him to England asap.

Ewers should have been on contention for the six shirt at the world cup. He's a great player. Hoping Williams will offer similar to us next season, he can certainly put the big hits in so it'll be interesting to see how he goes in competition to Croft who during his brief fully fit stage last season was actually very good, there's no issues over his ability diminishing only his fitness.

Pearce has bags of potential. So much pace and power coupled with the fact he's an absolute unit with great hands. An unpolished diamond at present though.

Why do you think Lancaster didn't consider Ewers?

The only reason I can see is that it would make our back row very slow overall. He did tail off a bit during the season as well but so did a fair few.

Yep the likes of Haskell, Wood and Clark are speedsters .

Prob because he hasn't got enough experience in the England squad due to Lancaster inability to try new players unless he has to down to injury.

Clark hasn't play hardly any games for England YET he keep getting put in because of the Lancaster connection he has had from Leeds.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Ewers should have been on contention for the six shirt at the world cup. He's a great player. Hoping Williams will offer similar to us next season, he can certainly put the big hits in so it'll be interesting to see how he goes in competition to Croft who during his brief fully fit stage last season was actually very good, there's no issues over his ability diminishing only his fitness.

Pearce has bags of potential. So much pace and power coupled with the fact he's an absolute unit with great hands. An unpolished diamond at present though.

To be honest Lancaster has made his choice at 6 already - it's a simple shoot out between Wood,Haskell and Clark. Uninspiring but that's what Lancaster wants.

No Burgess at 6, no Itoje,no Slater, no Ewers. Seems like a poor decision by Lancaster to not have at least one of them.

They're not known for their speed Welly but Ewers lumbers rather than runs!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:...The rules are in place and every other nation (bar SA) exploits them.

Beast? I think there might be a few who have made it into SA ranks from their neighbours (Zimbabwe, Namibia etc) its just that the pool of countries that 'contribute' to SA tend to be different from the ones that everybody else pillages

Zimbawe could have the foundation of a decent pack:
1) Beast, 2) ? 3) Mujati
4) Armond , 5) ?
6) Ewers, 7) Pocock, 8) Denton

If it was more stable that back row though.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Why do you think Lancaster didn't consider Ewers?

I don't think he's quick or fit enough GF.

It would be interesting to see his stats compared to someone like Robshaw.

Slater isn't an international 6 Beshocked he's an international quality lock that might be able to cover.

The problem England have is the lineout. Launchbury is a sub standard jumper for an international, Lawes is above average but easily targeted, Billy/Morgan are unable to be lifted and so that requires the six to be a passable jumper or better so we have three targets in Lawes, Robshaw and A N Other. This was less of a problem in the 6N. Expect Wood at 6 to compensate at the RWC though.

Slater isn't an international lock, he hasn't got a cap.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Slater isn't an international lock, he hasn't got a cap.

He said International quality lock not international lock.

Welly wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Slater isn't an international lock, he hasn't got a cap.

He said International quality lock not international lock.

How can you be international quality if you've not been tested at that level? Slater is a good player but has never proved himself at the top level.

It's just opinion really. Playing a international doesn't alter your ability in the short term at least but may help prove how good you are.

So starting pack will be:

1 Marler
2 Youngs
3 Cole
4 Lawes
5 Launchbury
6 Wood
7 Robshaw
8 Billy or Ben

Is that good enough to consistently trouble in attack or defence against the other contenders in all the relevant areas...

EDIT : Wrong thread for this discussion really....

I'd say so GF. You then factor in the likely replacements and it's looking good.

You compare that to the problems of our nearest and not quite dearest. If they are lucky they get to put out front row of a prop of huge experience but dodgy calves who is close to being passed it, a prop (if he recovers) of great potential but who is still very wet behind the ears and a blond haired beast of a hooker who is great at some things but makes Youngs look like a good lineout thrower (but he does have great hair..).

Welly wrote: Zimbawe could have the foundation of a decent pack:
1) Beast, 2) ? 3) Mujati
4) Armond , 5) ?
6) Ewers, 7) Pocock, 8) Denton

If it was more stable that back row though.

At number five you could have Mike Williams of Leicester, hooker is a problem though. Maybe pick one of their current incumbents?

Backline wouldn't be horrendous either, could have the likes of Kyle Godwin (Western Force), Max and Thom Evans, Nils Mordt, Dante Mama, Tonderai Chavhanga and Takudzwa Ngwenya.

Wouldn't be lacking pace.

JTH retires

Shame, I always hoped that he could be the hard carrying inside centre that England were looking for. A proposition that looked increasingly remote over the last few years, perhaps his long standing injury problems would explain this. Ben Williams of Bath has also been forced to retire at a very young age.

Ben Williams looked a proper player aswell thats a shame.


Not sure if its been posted yet but Mo Botha to Falcons is a rumour gathering pace.

James Short LI -> Exeter

Driver wrote:Ben Williams looked a proper player aswell thats a shame.


Not sure if its been posted yet but Mo Botha to Falcons is a rumour gathering pace.

Yeah we discussed it previously Driver...interesting call, and would only surely be for World Cup cover for Furno and Kane Thompson. My feelings personally is whilst he has experience, id rather give Witty or Robinson a run out.

I saw that Short was moving from LI. He's been bouncing around for a while now but I am not sure why? When Ive seen him play hes been quite impressive - certainly a few seasons back for Sarries and was surprised when they dual registered him!
But why the move from LI?

Also, in the BBC article about Short they mentioned at Exceter that Vanikolos contract wasnt renewed - thats a surprise as again on the few occasions Ive seen him he has been very impressive.

Could all be salary cap movement. Chiefs were supposed to be struggling to get Salvi under the cap so maybe sacrificed Vainikolo to do so and brought in Short who was cheaper.

LI might have agreed to release Short in order to get additional cap to target some RWC talent.

Yeah, I suppose there is that.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Could all be salary cap movement. Chiefs were supposed to be struggling to get Salvi under the cap so maybe sacrificed Vainikolo to do so and brought in Short who was cheaper.

LI might have agreed to release Short in order to get additional cap to target some RWC talent.

I didn't think the Chiefs players would be on mega money tbh.

I would be amazed if they are not up to the cap. Vainikolo might have not been on massive cash but Exeter outbid Connacht to sign him so he wouldn't have been that cheap. If they can get some free cap by switching the two then they might as well as neither is a certain starter and it may allow the signing of someone like Salvi who will be.

Vainekolo was great going forward and on the counter but his defence wasn't up to much and he didn't really fit the Chief's playing style. Will be interesting to see how Short turns out. He's got a year's contract and Rob tends to give 1yr contracts to put players 'on trial'.
As to our playing budget Rob will have up to the cap to spend but being a farmer at heart he can make money go a long way. No sign of a marquee player yet but we live in hope.

I hope we have released Short to target some additional talent, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is it. To be honest the back three below looks pretty tasty to me. A more powerful strike runner could be a nice option to have though as Short was probably the closest thing we had to a real tackle buster on the wing.

Tikoirotuma (if Chiefs not Quins version)---Maitland----Lewington

Has Maitland moved with the intention, or wish, to play 15 SirBurger?

king_carlos wrote:Has Maitland moved with the intention, or wish, to play 15 SirBurger?

From what has been said from both camps it appears he wants to focus on 15 and that is where we want him to play.

See in this King Carlos:

Maitland to play full back

Cheers SirBurger.

It's an interesting article given that much of it is geared towards him being a winger but he states clearly he wants to play more full back. Even the comments from Maitland all point towards 'world cup first' where he will almost certainly be utilised on the wing unless Hogg is injured.

LI have built a good looking squad though it must be said. That back row has a hell of a lot of depth - hopefully Sisi will see some Jeff gametime again.

Ben Franks is a brilliant acquisition given his experience and ability to play on either side. Andy Goode adds an excellent rudder to the side and Brendan McGibbin comes with a good reputation at half back.

Matt Symons is a great signing as well. The guy is already a very impressive player and still improving. Him and Skivington could form one of the best second row pairings in the league.

On a different note I hope Dom Waldouck can find some fitness and success at LI. His hope of England honours are sadly past but I always enjoyed watching him play and hope he can resurrect his career some what as a top Premiership centre.