Silly season transfer rumours (continued)....

First topic message reminder :

Continuation of the previous thread from the esteemed Mister GeordieFalcon:
https://www.606v2.com/t57129-silly-season-transfer-rumours

formerly known as Sam wrote:If your tackle technique is good and the opposition can't catch you, then you can get away with it. Williams is the obvious one to reference here but Slade is pretty diminutive as is Ford. Rugby is moving away from size across the board and are looking for technique, particularly in the backs.

At his age being fifth choice winger is no bad thing. Given May and the PI option are both internationals he shouldn't be to far away from a game.

Slade is 6'2 and just shy of 14st...probably over that now. Is that diminutive?

I didn't realise he was 6'2! He looks smaller on the TV. Fourteen stone for a professional rugby player who is over six foot isn't bulky. Probably about right size wise for a fly half might want a little more weight for a centre, not that he should bulk up.

He's only young so I assume he will put a bit of bulk on anyway. so he'll probably make about 14.5 stone. And the fact he is a strong tackler bodes well for him.

Relatively speaking, I would be much more worried about Burgess' ability to offload and create than Slade's ability to tackle. Technique counts for a lot more than people think.

Compare Slade at 6'2 and 14st with someone like Peter Horne of Scotland (6', 14st 2lb), Conrad Smith (6'1", 14 st 7lb) or even Gio Aplon (5'9" and 12 st 4lb). Not too shabby at all.

George

I want to see Burgess at 6 and nowhere else. Just taking the game to the opposition in a brutal powerful way.

As for Slade, he is one we do have high expectations of, but then we've had that of many others...like Elliott Daly etc.

Absolutely. Burgess would be a great blindside but only an average centre and Sonny Bill Williams specifically commented to that effect about a month ago.

Watch Lancaster agree with this and switch him back once the World Cup is over and Tualagi comes back to fitness.

Re Slade's size I'd be more interested in his ability to ride a tackle. His technique in tackling is excellent. If only a few more of our internationals would follow his example.

Agree completely on Burgess.

Hey Sam ....maybe that young Monster Pearce will make the 6 spot his own and push past them all...Burgess, Itoje, Haskell, Ewers.....

I thought that a possibility until we signed Williams, can't see him getting past Croft and Williams. Think Pearce will overtake Crane this season and the big Tongan the season after that. Williams at 6 and Pearce at 8 offers some big hitters with plenty of mobility with both the right side of 25 at the minute.

That being said doesn't mean Pearce couldn't play six for England. I think Lancaster would prefer the Burgess and Nathan Hughes as the 6/8 combo post RWC.

Ah Burgess at 6 is a no brainer for me...and im sure he'll learn some lineout as well.

I just don't want Hughes in there though...but that's another story.

Will Croft still be fit to play??

Well, Croft is fit at the moment. As he breaks in matches we have a little bit of time yet.

Really want Pearce to make got so much raw potential.

He will be the type of player that will be drawing the eye of other clubs though so needs more game time.

Tigers look like they're going back to the old school powerhouse pack.

4 Slater
5 Kitchener
6 Pearce / Williams
7 ?
8 Pearce / Crane

Theres some beef there....and that's excluding the front row including Mulipola, Ayerza etc...

Ouch

Looks decent on paper GF but there's no international quality players there. I don't think that back 5 is going to scare the top sides in the AP or Europe.

Haven't had international quality in the last 2 season really. Yet still mange to beat every time we played bar Saracens (one draw) last season. Personally I think our back 5 is stronger than it was last season and more balanced in depth.

Paring has played on average 10 games a season in that time.

I would say Slater and Kitchener are both International quality.

Although I get where you're going at as you said previously you don't rate our new signings. No point debating as we have danced that dance plenty enough so far.

Also massive plus point Fonua is looking extremely lean (well for Fonua) it sounds like the Leicester S&C team have been working him hard and he has met the challenges thrown at him.

https://instagram.com/p/6l7q5MkZr4bZ5xLqwuZBcuZkgWev1yeeCKIvU0/

Guess proof will be in the pudding.

How are Slater & Kitchener international quality Welly? They've never played Int rugby.

Thorn, Parling, Matera (although few games) are proven International players, I personally think the first 2 are a big loss but I understand your opinion.

Not sure SGt, I think that back 5 will give teams all sorts of problems.

Both the locks are big and physical and mobile and Slater would have been WC bound had he not had his injury. I think he's that good and physical.

Pearce will be a big powerful 6/8.

The other thing is that with no internationals....they can play their full strength pack whilst their competitiors are losing theirs to international call ups.

Well not known international quality but IMO they of that standard.

Fonua is technically international Quaility by that logic where as Nathan Hughes isn't.

Tom wood better than Dave Ewers.

Chris Robshaw better than Julien Salvi.

We have gone with more bulkier and yet still athletic youth in the back 5 (odd player above 26) suppose we have a very experience 1st and 2nd choice.

Our combined caps of Rizzo, Ayerza, Cole Leo, Youngs and Logo is 241 caps.

Also another plus point is young Dom Barrow seems to be training well considering he is coming back from a major injury.

Yea I see the benefits have not having top players as you keep the core of your squad together.

The best players play international rugby though and when other teams put out top draw players, they could struggle.

Not known international quality as they're not lol. No matter what your opinion is, they're obviously not rated as highly as the likes of Kruis, Attwood etc.

Im not sure I can think of a lock pairing that will get the better of Slater and Kitchener though Sgt. (In the prem)

And the back row...probably a little unknown but I guess we'll find out as the season gets under way.

I don't doubt Kitch/Slater are good players GF, just not Int quality so perhaps lacking at the higher level?

Backrow looks very average to me, but time will tell like you said. Exeter don't look too strong on paper but often perform at a higher level.

Croft fit and in form is one of the best in the world. Would be nice to see that again, it's been a while. Tigers have given him a one year deal to see where he's at. I think he'd have been better off going to Japan for a season and then returning after that. We'll have to wait and see.

Brendan O'Connor the Auckland Blues open side and player of the year last year will be at 7. We've also got Fonua at 8.

fkas trouble is IIRC O'Connor is EQ so if he fullfills his potential can see him being called up by England

GeordieFalcon wrote:Tigers look like they're going back to the old school powerhouse pack.

4 Slater
5 Kitchener
6 Pearce / Williams
7 ?
8 Pearce / Crane

Theres some beef there....and that's excluding the front row including Mulipola, Ayerza etc...

Ouch

John Hardie (Scotland's new imported openside option) doesn't have a NH club yet and the Tigers could do an awful lot worse than the guy who held a tight grip on the starting 7 jersey in one of NZ's five professional Super Rugby franchises for the past three years. I'm just saying, Cockers...

George as already stated Tigers already have O'Connor who was player of the season for the Aukland Blues this season & now captaining his ITM team & EQ. Back up being Thacker, best position between Hooker & 7 yet to be decided, & Will Owen 7 for England at last U20's WC

broadlandboy wrote:George as already stated Tigers already have O'Connor who was player of the season for the Aukland Blues this season & now captaining his ITM team & EQ. Back up being Thacker, best position between Hooker & 7 yet to be decided, & Will Owen 7 for England at last U20's WC

Definitely good options, although worth noting that the Blues were a pile of old poop this season and Hardie left with a Super Rugby winners medal.

As an aside, I think that Harry Thacker is about a year away from being a better hooker than Youngs.

Youngs is a good AP hooker, I doubt Thacker will ever be better than him due to his size, he certainly won't play for England.

We also signed a flanker from LW who is capable of covering openside. There were some stats posted on the offy towards the end of the Super 15 season that showed O'Connor averaged as many turnovers and tackles per game as the likes of Hooper and Pocock. Certainly the Blues held him in high regard as he started in front of Braid who is a good openside in his own right.

Hardie will disappear for a third of every season on international duty, will want international wages and arrive late and with no integration from the RWC. Not an improvement on O'Connor in that regard though I doubt he'll remain unattached for long.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I don't doubt Kitch/Slater are good players GF, just not Int quality so perhaps lacking at the higher level?

Backrow looks very average to me, but time will tell like you said. Exeter don't look too strong on paper but often perform at a higher level.

Slater missed most of last season after getting injured captaining England he also played against the Baabaas. Kitch finished as the best lineout stealer in the AP and took more throws on his own ball than any other. Not bad for a 19 stone lock. How he wasn't even in the squad to play the Baabaas is a mystery to me. For me he was more of an asset than Palin last season and Thorn did say he'd be an AB if he played in NZ.

Listening to rugby hour podcasts Simon Cohen talking about signing a new centre, to me listening to it there is a hint that we might well be in talks with Jean De Villiers.

Ballard mentions about us in talks with a SA player.
Cohen doesn't deny it says it is know we are in looking for a right player who would fit in with tigers, mentions marquee player is more about cap than the name. Mentions it might well be a short term option but we are talking to various players.

IMO it sounded like we are in talks with a SA player.

I could see if available us looking at Jean De Villiers to sign after World Cup for a season. The. after the end of this season maybe looking more at our current younger players or look at the next crop of out of contract players.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Youngs is a good AP hooker, I doubt Thacker will ever be better than him due to his size, he certainly won't play for England.

After watching him end of last season I'm starting to agree with this.

He has bulked up this off season though but IMO he needs to be looked at more at 7 where he actually showed quite a bit of promise.

But I think the coaches might feel the same with the signing of Bateman who is very much a scrummaging hooker, he has played TH as well. I think Farnworth might be a better bet coming up.

Irish have signed Christian Lewis-Pratt on a short term contract as none of our senior tens are fit at present.

That's the first time a Tigers fan has agreed with me about Thacker, cheers Welly

Can you make the obvious comparison with regards to Thacker? Will he ever be good as Back? What is his breakdown work like? I'd imagine he would be a fairly decent link man having played in the centres.

George Carlin wrote:

broadlandboy wrote:George as already stated Tigers already have O'Connor who was player of the season for the Aukland Blues this season & now captaining his ITM team & EQ. Back up being Thacker, best position between Hooker & 7 yet to be decided, & Will Owen 7 for England at last U20's WC

Definitely good options, although worth noting that the Blues were a pile of old poop this season and Hardie left with a Super Rugby winners medal.

Bad team doesn't equal bad player - O'Connor is really rather good.

Cumbrian are you sure you are not mixing your Thackers as IIRC Harry hasn't played center playing flyhalf as a youngster(on joining Tigers academy his back up position was flyhalf)but his younger brother Charlie does.

Thacker isn't that good at the breakdown. He's a nuisance because his work rate is massive and his chop tackling technique fells the opposition quickly and he's often back to his feet quickly. He doesn't have that open side ability over the ruck though, he's too easily shifted. In attack he has good hands but tends to be very direct. Which to be fair is effective as he tends to bounce through at least the first tackle each time. Maybe further out that would be even more effective that in the tight exchanges.

I think he's just the kind of player you've got to get on to the pitch as he's such a handful. Whichever his position he just needs to pick it and work on that skill set sooner rather than later.

broadlandboy wrote:Cumbrian are you sure you are not mixing your Thackers as IIRC Harry hasn't played center playing flyhalf as a youngster(on joining Tigers academy his back up position was flyhalf)but his younger brother Charlie does.

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading that he played centre before he moved to hooker.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:That's the first time a Tigers fan has agreed with me about Thacker, cheers Welly

I feel dirty

broadlandboy wrote:Cumbrian are you sure you are not mixing your Thackers as IIRC Harry hasn't played center playing flyhalf as a youngster(on joining Tigers academy his back up position was flyhalf)but his younger brother Charlie does.

I have read that Thacker has played 12 in he past as well as 10.

I'm pretty sure I heard he played 15 as well so it sounds like he was generally a creative utility back.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:That's the first time a Tigers fan has agreed with me about Thacker, cheers Welly

Not really true. I agreed with you several times that Thacker was too small to be successful at hooker, though I did add the rider that he had not been a liability when he played for Tigers last season and had actually deservedly been MotM in one AP performance.

DOes it matter...we plummeting headlong into Rugby league territory now where locks will play in the centre, Fh's will play prop, etc etc

The best players are still those that have the specialist skills in their position GF. The game is becoming more mobile and more skillful but at the end of the day you still need he set pieces and a tight game.

Lots of players have moved between positions over the years. There was a time Dallaglio played 7 for England, Healey played 9/10/wing as well as fullback.

Yes moving around the pack...or around the backs is quite normal....but ive not seen so much changing between pack and backs as we have recently.

GeordieFalcon wrote:DOes it matter...we plummeting headlong into Rugby league territory now where locks will play in the centre, Fh's will play prop, etc etc

Didnt an age grade England team play with two future wings playing Lock? Banahan and Croft?

formerly known as Sam wrote:Croft fit and in form is one of the best in the world. Would be nice to see that again, it's been a while. Tigers have given him a one year deal to see where he's at. I think he'd have been better off going to Japan for a season and then returning after that. We'll have to wait and see.

Brendan O'Connor the Auckland Blues open side and player of the year last year will be at 7. We've also got Fonua at 8.

I think croft would have been better playing sevens for a season personally. Get his fitness up, not too many heavy duty collisions, once in a liftime shot at an Olympic medal, then back to 15s.

Hood shout thomh. He could have captained the Tigers sevens side as well which might have helped stop the pastings we received in the Singha sevens.

South Africa captain Jean De Villiers continues to be linked with a 1 year deal at Tigers. Has rumoured to have had talks with Sarries as well but looks to be spending next year in Leicester.

Rumours of Tuilagi joining Sarries for 2016/17

Sarries are rumoured to have offered him mega money. Be interesting to see what happens with that as Tigers have looked after him through his persistent groin injury and off field issues. It would show a distinct lack of loyalty not to try and repay that a little first.

Then again when his contract was up for renewal last time his agent and older brother mentioned to the press that Manu would love to play in the SH etc and really played up the contract talks. As far as I know Sarries have Barritt, Bosch and Tompkins all signed up for 2016/17 and shouldn't have issues retaining Streather and Taylor. Given Hodgson and Mordt won't be around forever and try have no fly half coming through you'd have thought that would be a bigger priority.

BamBam wrote:Rumours of Tuilagi joining Sarries for 2016/17

Been a Rumour for a few months now.

Nothing concrete just Sarries are trying to splash the cash.