Silly season transfer rumours (continued)....

First topic message reminder :

Continuation of the previous thread from the esteemed Mister GeordieFalcon:
https://www.606v2.com/t57129-silly-season-transfer-rumours

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33735420

Looks like a useful player - do the Pro12 chaps know anything about him?

Admittedly his youtube highlights are from 2011, but he looks like he good be a great signing.

He's billed as a big and powerful number 8. Pretty much ticks the box for the back row addition Quins wanted.

We were linked with him at one stage last year I believe.

Whats the crack with Auterac. He looks an absolute man mountain? Is he just a gym monkey or is he a genuine scrummager (can he play?)...

propdavid_london wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33735420

Looks like a useful player - do the Pro12 chaps know anything about him?

Bit similar to Fonua at LW big ball carrier, good from base of scrum and carrying in open play but not much of a workrate

GF - Is Auterac leaving Bath? He has looked like a decent player but I guess struggled for consistent game time.
Thanks for the info guys on the Quins singing - if he isnt into high workrates then we can hopefully improve that - but with Robshaw and Wallace we can hopefully accomodate that while giving us a few more carrying options.
Its something we have been crying out for last season - that destructive tackler that Mo Faasavalu played for us.

No they have only just signed him haven't they.

I meant we were linked with that number 8 you have just signed.

Yeah - I might be wrong, thought Auterac is/was a Bath academy player.
Like I said, I think he has looked useful when I have seen him play.

I thought he moved across there at the start of last season from Sarries.

He's some size, and is already the strongest player in baths squad.

He was at Sarries but signed for Bath last season.

Auterac has been a bit of revelation at Bath, often looking better than James and starting for much of the season. His scrummaging can be really destructive but he's a little up and down, if he add consistency to his game he'll be around the England set up post WC.

I think Auterac will be an international. He's pretty young still and Sarries weren't happy to lose him. He's raw though and neither Catt nor Lahiff offer Bath an experienced hand should he be struggling.

It's great to have so many good young props knocking around.

Actually, were Lahiff to get his career back on track and become the player he threatened to be before his disastrous flirtation with bogan-ism would people welcome him back into the England fold? Or has he burned his bridges? I must admit, I was a bit gutted when he went down under, but now he is really far down the pecking order.

Lahiff is currently so far down the pecking order a mass food poisoning wouldn't see him recalled. The Bath style of play should suit him and if he can edge out Auterac and Catt at Bath then he has a decent chance.

None of the England LH props are old either....well maybe Mullan...whats he about 29? Still young for a prop...

Lahiff made his move I wouldn't consider him for England ever again. And as pointed out...he's not good enough.

Whoever it is...they will have to play well to dislodge Marler at the moment.

Marco Mama going out on loan from Bristol for the season. I wonder where to...?

SirBurger wrote:Marco Mama going out on loan from Bristol for the season. I wonder where to...?

According to the Bristol Post, it's either Wuss or Glaws.

Don't Glaws have enough back rowers?!

World cup cover with Morgan injured/with England, Moriarty with Wales and the PI number 6 with whichever island. Short trip loan signing might help cover. Worcester have lost Senatore a day Williams from their back row.

The 8 who Quins have signed is exactly the type of player they need in there pack. Really big ball carrier who'll get them on the front foot.

From a England point of view i'd of liked to have seen Clifford play more, Or has he joined Saracens? My mind wonders.

Clifford is still at Quins isn't he? Conlon from Exeter went to Sarries.

Quins were a little short in the back row in terms of numbers so I don't think the new 8 will impact the development of Clifford or Christholm, O'Shea is very good at bringing young players through and even with the new acquisition there's not that much squad depth ahead of them.

Surely Clifford is a 6/7

Clifford can play across the backrow, I think he played 8 for the U20's

He's not going to play 8 at AP level so you'd assume his future will be at 6. Likewise Christholm will probably play more at 6 especially whilst Robshaw is with England.

Don't reckon Quins will let Clifford go, he'll be club captain one day. Still only 22, give him a couple of years and he will be a first choice pick and will have a couple of caps.

Sorry just to clarify, I just feel Clifford will not be an 8 despite him playing there for U20's.
He looks like a 6/7 to me.

Mind Pocock is starting at 8 for Australia with Hooper at 7 in the next Aussie game.

I think you are right, Quins' website has him listed as a flanker. I always got the impression that he was the right shape for a traditional open side, but is 6ft 3in/ 6ft 4in too tall?

Do traditional opensides exist anymore mate? Well...bar Australia?

Depends entirely on his centre of gravity and strength. Height is irrelevant if the player can get low enough to make their centre of gravity count for something.

Traditionally opensides are more squat as they can get lower to the ground and cover the ball. Pocock is just the ideal 7- 5'11, 105kg, and immensely strong.

I haven't really seen enough of Clifford's breakdown work to make a comment really. Is he decent over the ball? I know he's a great carrier.

I've watched Clifford and Chisolm at U20 level. The former perhaps should have been player of the year. Quins are seemingly blessed at 8 with these two in line.

England don't play traditional 7's anymore anyway so no worries.....

mikey_dragon wrote:I've watched Clifford and Chisolm at U20 level. The former perhaps should have been player of the year. Quins are seemingly blessed at 8 with these two in line.

Under 20 rugby isn't always the best measure of how a player will adapt to senior rugby. If you're big and powerful for you age it tends to lead to a style of play that doesn't translate to senior rugby where players are bigger and more powerful than you. Clifford got away with it at under 20 level but at senior level he'll struggle to make the impact ball in hand from 8. He could be an excellent blindside though, he's got the work rate and skill set to really stand out.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:I've watched Clifford and Chisolm at U20 level. The former perhaps should have been player of the year. Quins are seemingly blessed at 8 with these two in line.

Under 20 rugby isn't always the best measure of how a player will adapt to senior rugby. If you're big and powerful for you age it tends to lead to a style of play that doesn't translate to senior rugby where players are bigger and more powerful than you. Clifford got away with it at under 20 level but at senior level he'll struggle to make the impact ball in hand from 8. He could be an excellent blindside though, he's got the work rate and skill set to really stand out.

I agree. He looks to me one of those players who looks too big and powerful for U20s to handle, but not big enough at 8 at a senior level. I'd actually really like to see him developed as a 7. He has excellent pace, good skills, good link play and a decent work rate. If he can keep improving over the ball it seems a natural position to me.

I just think with Wallace already at Quins it's more likely he'll play 6. Doesn't mean he can't develop the skills you say but play wider and use those clever running lines he has to offer a different forward attacking threat whilst using his mobility to keep the tackle count high around the park. Leave Wallace/Robshaw to really target the breakdown area in the tight areas.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I just think with Wallace already at Quins it's more likely he'll play 6. Doesn't mean he can't develop the skills you say but play wider and use those clever running lines he has to offer a different forward attacking threat whilst using his mobility to keep the tackle count high around the park. Leave Wallace/Robshaw to really target the breakdown area in the tight areas.

Yes I think you're also right on this, I'd expect Wallace/Robshaw to leave him with the 6/8 slots. It depends how you want your 6 to play. I'd like a very hard tackler first and foremost, which he'll never be. I think a 6.5 role with Robshaw similar might work if Easter or another big lump is at 8. In which case he'd have to develop a full skill set. Personally he'd just leapfrog Wallace in my pecking order to play at 7, with Robshaw at 6.

Depends on balance. If you've got a seven that is all over the rucks and the closer exchanges then you don't want a six hanging around there making tackles you want him slightly wider. I think Wallace is lacking impact because he's being forced to play wider as Robshaw is all about making tackles around the ruck. You look at a seven like Salvi who just hunts around the breakdown tackling and filching I think that's the role for Wallace and that sort of flanker is better paired with a blindside who is able to roam and cover the field ala Croft or an 8 like Waldrom who is all about the big carries rather than the hard yards.

Quins like the big 8 with the hard yards so I think there's room for a blindside at Quins with Clifford's skill set especially given Quins love of the offload.

I wonder if Wallace may not have had his career permanently damaged by Robshaw in the same way as Guest's was by Easter (or more precisely by his refusal to move to get game time at a key point in his career). It is possible that Wallace's moment as a 7 has already passed. I for one hope Clifford is allowed to play most of his rugby there, with Wallace staying at 6.

Wallace still attacks the breakdown like a 7 and is more involved in the link play than Robshaw (that's not hard). To write him off is premature. I've not really seen enough ball stealing from Clifford to put him in the same category.

Cumbrian wrote:Don't reckon Quins will let Clifford go, he'll be club captain one day.   Still only 22, give him a couple of years and he will be a first choice pick and will have a couple of caps.

That day might be now. Marler said on Twitter that he isn't captain anymore and apparently O'Shea said at a supporters evening that the next captain might be even younger.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wallace still attacks the breakdown like a 7 and is more involved in the link play than Robshaw  (that's not hard). To write him off is premature. I've not really seen enough ball stealing from Clifford to put him in the same category.

He steals his share of ball but no he isn't a permanent breakdown limpet like some others. Brilliant all-rounder though.

Confirmed we have signed Mouritz Botha ....but on a 3 year deal???!!! What on earth!

At least he can pass on some experience to our young crop of Second Rows coming through.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Confirmed we have signed Mouritz Botha ....but on a 3 year deal???!!! What on earth!

At least he can pass on some experience to our young crop of Second Rows coming through.

Yeah not sure about the length, he's no Brad Thorn! But decent for the short-term surely? Good work-rate, pretty reliable. Prem's getting more competitive every year, it's good to see.

thomh wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Don't reckon Quins will let Clifford go, he'll be club captain one day.   Still only 22, give him a couple of years and he will be a first choice pick and will have a couple of caps.

That day might be now. Marler said on Twitter that he isn't captain anymore and apparently O'Shea said at a supporters evening that the next captain might be even younger.

I understand the idea of rotating captains to improve leadership, but I think making Marler captain was a poor decision.

Junior Bulumakau (British Army) to Glasgow Warriors.



Delighted with this. A trialist who has grabbed his chance and wing cover with real gas and physicality.

I'll say this for Gregor Townsend - he knows a talented Fijian when he sees one.

So after 18 months, 15 starts, 4 yellows and 1 red Sila Puafisi is leaving Glaws for Glasgow. He promised much but sadly didn't deliver and ended up as a penalty machine.

He was never going emerge from the shadow of PDJ this season so decided to move on.

Are we going to see any of Steph Reynolds this season HKC? He has lit up the sevens a couple of times now is he ready for fifteens?

Afoa is genuinely concerned about PDJs arrival!

Reynolds should get the odd game. He has been promoted to the senior squad now, but he'll be 5th choice winger. Nevertheless you can't overlook someone who can so the 100 m in 10.4s! I do feel whilst he has bulked up he is still too lightweight.

If your tackle technique is good and the opposition can't catch you, then you can get away with it. Williams is the obvious one to reference here but Slade is pretty diminutive as is Ford. Rugby is moving away from size across the board and are looking for technique, particularly in the backs.

At his age being fifth choice winger is no bad thing. Given May and the PI option are both internationals he shouldn't be to far away from a game.

HongKongCherry wrote:So after 18 months, 15 starts, 4 yellows and 1 red Sila Puafisi is leaving Glaws for Glasgow. He promised much but sadly didn't deliver and ended up as a penalty machine.

We only just found out about this on the soapdodger grapevine, Honkers.

Why didn't it work out for him at Kingsholm? Was he just not up to it or were there chemistry 'issues'?

4 yellows and 1 red is not great, although Townsend has a notoriously low tolerance level for handbags like that.

I didn't work out as sadly I just don't think he's good enough. There is no doubting his strength and under the old scrum laws I think he could have developed into a top TH, however, his technique is shocking. His base position is always too high and I think he mistakenly believes you should bind on the arm! At least 2 of his cards were for petulance and the rest for scrum infringements. You can't deny his commitment or work in the loose, which has drastically improved in the 18 months. But if you want a prop who can scrummage it's not him.

HongKongCherry wrote:I didn't work out as sadly I just don't think he's good enough. There is no doubting his strength and under the old scrum laws I think he could have developed into a top TH, however, his technique is shocking. His base position is always too high and I think he mistakenly believes you should bind on the arm! At least 2 of his cards were for petulance and the rest for scrum infringements.  You can't deny his commitment or work in the loose, which has drastically improved in the 18 months.  But if you want a prop who can scrummage it's not him.

Thanks mate. I have no doubt that Townsend will know what he's got and I suspect will iron the indiscipline out.

We already have a tighthead (Mike Cusack) who is like a hundred bags of sand to shift in the scrum but offers little in the loose, so perhaps it's an intentional change of styles. Where we really missed out was letting Brian Mujati sign for Sale instead of us.