The Ashes Thread

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:11 am

First topic message reminder :

Some news from the Aussie camp

Chris Rogers will miss the first test with a head injury
Steve Smith has been promoted to bat 3 (hate it hate it hate it leave him alone)

by **LondonTiger** Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:37 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:
Stella wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:

I do sincerely hope things remain civil on (and off) the field. No need to goad opponents and sledge and carry on in threatening ways to certain players. That's never right in any situation, let alone on a cricket field.

Nothing wrong with a bit of sledging.

It depends on what/who the subject is and how it is delivered I suppose. A lot of it is just pure nasty and unsportsmanlike.
Not saying there should be no talk out there... urging the team along. That's all fine.

However, some players need to draw the line on more personal verbal attacks and those instances where it almost becomes a physical intimidation.

I have a horrible feeling that this may be a really unpleasant series. Clarke and Haddin have both spoken about butting right up to what they perceive as the line separating acceptable from not. England will probably behave in an equally pathetic manner - and will look worse as we are really rather crap at trying to intimidate opposition.

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:44 am

I don't have the same level of optimism as Olly (I never do anyway! Very Happy

) about Moeen for this series but none of his rivals have made an unanswerable case for selection and so it's reasonable he gets the opportunity to show if last summer was the real thing or Indian fools' gold.

by Duty281 Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:45 am

England to win 3-0. Steve Smith to act like Mike Hussey in the 2010/11 series - all in vain of course!

Mark Wood to have a wonderful series, with Broad rediscovering his form in magnificent circumstances. Joe Root to do his impression of Vaughan's 02/03 vintage.

Now as for my first bold prediction, ahem, I think Australia will be skittled out on the first day if they bat first.

Ten years since this, really? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpQpJdFLzdc

Have a blast of this while you wait as well - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpIPH02XK6k
And this is just beautiful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtCOprRDUm8

Oh and NowTV - http://watch.nowtv.com/sports - will let you watch the first day free of charge, I believe (perfectly legal, moderators!.

Come on England!

by **LondonTiger** Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:48 am

with regards to Moeen, I would have no issues with him in the team as a batting all rounder, but coming in at eight he is selected as a bowling all-rounder.

Looking at his series as a bowler:

Sri Lanka 3 wickets @ 60
India 19 wickets @ 23
WI 6 Wickets @ 35
NZ 5 Wickets @ 50

Most observers would suggest he bowled at his worst in WI - and those figures flattered him - and certainly if you look at the pitch map he bowled far too short throughout those games. Whichever way you look at it, his figures are influenced by a single excellent series.

We can be too harsh on him, after all before his test call up he had spent nine years in county cricket as a batsman who bowled occasional off-spin. This is why he was called up to support a 4 many pace attack. Now he has to be viewed as a front line bowler - a role he has performed in two series and for various reasons struggled. I hope he does well - but would not be surprised if he struggles in this test.

by Stella Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:50 am

Olly wrote:Well only time will tell young Stella

Young?

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:53 am

Stella wrote:
Olly wrote:Well only time will tell young Stella

Young?

Stella - you probably appear like a ray of youthful sunshine compared to what Olly suffers on the Surrey threads! Wink

by CaledonianCraig Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:00 am

LondonTiger wrote:with regards to Moeen, I would have no issues with him in the team as a batting all rounder, but coming in at eight he is selected as a bowling all-rounder.

Looking at his series as a bowler:

Sri Lanka 3 wickets @ 60
India 19 wickets @ 23
WI 6 Wickets @ 35
NZ 5 Wickets @ 50

Most observers would suggest he bowled at his worst in WI - and those figures flattered him - and certainly if you look at the pitch map he bowled far too short throughout those games. Whichever way you look at it, his figures are influenced by a single excellent series.

We can be too harsh on him, after all before his test call up he had spent nine years in county cricket as a batsman who bowled occasional off-spin. This is why he was called up to support a 4 many pace attack. Now he has to be viewed as a front line bowler - a role he has performed in two series and for various reasons struggled. I hope he does well - but would not be surprised if he struggles in this test.

I'd agree with much of this but Ali is going to start by all accounts. I feel this First Test may depend a lot on how bad the spinners get ripped apart. Ali is toiling and Lyon has had a tough start to the tour.

by **Pal Joey** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:01 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Hi guys,

Ok, I'll go -

Series result: 3-1 Australia

England lead run scorer: Alastair Cook
England lead wicket taker: Stuart Broad

Australia lead run scorer: Steve Smith
Australia lead wicket taker: Mitchell Starc.

Pretty similar to the call from my Australian cyber friend Loaded Dog (hope you saw my earlier expert analysis of the Chelmsford track, LD.! )

Found Australia's lead wicket taker the hardest one to take even a wild guess on. Feel that could be influenced by too many variables - injury, enforced rest and rotation. As my man Lyon is the one most likely to play all Tests, he could be an outside bet here.

Yes I did see it, Guildford. That boiling hot day must have taken the rest of the life out of the pitch. Cardiff will have something more in it for sure.

Same here regarding Australia's best bowler. It's not so clear cut, is it?

I'd like to see Hazelwood further develop into a similar role to McGrath (I can't bear to listen to him either!... so silly really) and concentrating on accuracy and subtle movement off the seam at a decent pace. He has that metronomic characteristic in his smooth action when he gets into the groove. He seems pretty calm and mature... but can he handle the pressure of an Ashes Series?

Was even thinking Mitchell Johnson. Not a dark horse of course. He looks very fit and as ready as can be.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:06 am

TMS on at work - nothing will be done for the next week

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:11 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:

... Was even thinking Mitchell Johnson. Not a dark horse of course. He looks very fit and as ready as can be.

LD - me too. I was thinking of typing ''Mitchell'' for Australia's leading bowler and leaving it at that! Wink

by **Pal Joey** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:17 am

We have the final game of State of Origin on as well... in about an hour or so.
I've got to the point where I'm not expecting too much - if you know what I mean. Go NSW.
Qld will no doubt deliver yet another lesson in: "How To Win" Smile

It has all been a bit low key here surprisingly. Although some media interest has picked up during the last few days.

Still no news on the teams? The foxing continues...

Guidford, even Finn could have a bonanza this time around?
He might hit his straps just at the right time,... you never know. Smile

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:21 am

Nothing official on the teams, LD.

Pretty certain that England will leave out Rashid and Finn. Not so strong but the expectation is that Australia will stick with the experienced hands of Rogers and Watson, leaving out the Marsh brothers.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:21 am

Rumors that the aussies are going to leave out Lyon and play 4 quicks

by **Pal Joey** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am

Oh dear! Here's George: "Covers on, Umbrellas up. Gentle rain."

Good news, it has stopped raining. Toss due in 10 minutes

I wish your weather would make up its mind.

So freezing here and much colder in Canberra where I'll be the next few days.
Don't know how I'll cope below -5 degrees! Dress extra warm I guess?

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:26 am

Olly wrote:Rumors that the aussies are going to leave out Lyon and play 4 quicks

I heard Dominic Cork mention that on the radio last night but, largely as I don't rate or like Cork much, dismissed it from my mind. Perhaps too rashly - you're normally on the money with these sort of rumours, Olly.

I will be surprised though. As I've droned on about earlier on this thread, Lyon's been a key part of their attack.

by Breadvan Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:31 am

Steffan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Steffan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Wales has been a part of England since the time of King Henry VIII, so I believe we are playing in England!
If Wales is part of England is then why do you cheer on whoever the Welsh football and rugby team play then?

I don't! Hope the Welsh beat the Australians at the rugby this year.
Well Wales is owned by England after all apparently...

I got no problem with the England rugby team at least we call a spade a spade there unlike cricket where we have all these bandwagon jumpers in Wales supporting the England cricket team and all the English moaning that they are playing in Cardiff (which is fair enough) and people suggesting Wales are represented even though Wales in nowhere in the name at all. I wonder if all these England cricket fans from Wales would be happy if the same situation happened in rugby or football

My beef isn't with England cricket though. Its with the Welsh traitors who support them and the Welsh cricket people for lacking any ambition

Traitors? Welsh cricket fans just want to watch good cricket. Wales are part of the ECB. Croft, Simon Jones all had the full backing of Wales cricket fans playing for England. There was no animosity towards England in the ICC trophy at sophia gardens two yrs ago. Still you slate the barmy army, probably the most respected supporters group going, yet laud Cardiff cities soul crew.. Headscratch

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:32 am

Lyon plays, as does Watson over marsh surprisingly

England bat first

by Gregers Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:32 am

Batting first? Thought it looked like a bowling day, bit overcast. Think we should have unleashed Anderson and Wood in these conditions

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:37 am

Look down not up Gregory - pitch is a belter. Bat first always

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:39 am

Gregers wrote:Batting first? Thought it looked like a bowling day, bit overcast. Think we should have unleashed Anderson and Wood in these conditions

Cyril Washbrook (first professional captain of Lancs in the 1950s) giving advice on captaincy to David Lloyd when the latter was appointed skipper of the Red Rose county in the early 1970s:
''You have two choices on winning the toss. Bat or think about it and then bat.''

I'm happy to be a traditionalist and stick with Cyril.

by guildfordbat Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:42 am

guildfordbat wrote:Nothing official on the teams, LD.

Pretty certain that England will leave out Rashid and Finn. Not so strong but the expectation is that Australia will stick with the experienced hands of Rogers and Watson, leaving out the Marsh brothers.

Having somehow got that right, I should probably stick there! Smile

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:05 am

The Welsh must have a sing song before everything eh

by **Pal Joey** Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:09 am

At last it's about to start!

Yes Guildford. Stick to your natural instincts sounds right. Smile

7 minutes until play starts. Looks wet and slippery.

by **Pal Joey** Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:15 am

The Welsh and their red carpets.
Nobody does it better, right Steffan? Very Happy

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:18 am

Bouncing twice to the keeper

Pitch is awful

by kingraf Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:27 am

Went sneaker hinting with the girlfriend, and thought I'd miss the beginning of the procession, but alas I will see it all!

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:33 am

This pitch is rank

by Steffan Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:13 pm

Pitch is not good but lots of rain recently. Great ball that got Lyth out though. Lets hope some spin bowling can get a few more out quick

by Steffan Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:14 pm

Cook spun out while I was typing

by **hampo17** Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:20 pm

Well, this is getting ugly.

by **hampo17** Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:21 pm

Steffan wrote:Pitch is not good but lots of rain recently. Great ball that got Lyth out though. Lets hope some spin bowling can get a few more out quick

Why would you want the Aussies to get a few more wickets Steffan? picard

by Stella Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:22 pm

Ballance is looking good for top scorer at the moment!

by **LondonTiger** Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:00 am

With the first test now over, I guess we can return to this thread - at least until the one for the 2nd test is started.

I am intrigued as to where the Aussies will be staying between now and Wednesday night. for Lords tests they always used to stay in the Landmark Hotel in Marylebone - but no use being there now - especially as they need to be getting some practice in.

I assume the England players will be allowed to pop hom today before re-convening in London on Tuesday.

by kingraf Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:57 pm

What is really funny has been people now doing mental gymnastics regarding Cook's captaincy. I don't know why, but people really do seem to have a hard time accepting that a 10+ year pro actually has an idea of how to lead a squad. His team scored 700 runs at four an over, and got 20 wickets in 160-odd overs. All without him contributing any runs... Put paid to the "only a good captain when leading from the front" spiel.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:18 pm

Pat Cummins being considered for selection - only played six first class games in his career, none in the last two years. Talk about injury prone...

by guildfordbat Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:58 pm

Chris Woakes is playing in Warks' current Championship game after being out with injury. That's good to see. No need for any England changes for the second Test but Woakes might be a useful option later this summer.

by guildfordbat Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:55 pm

In ''England squad player watch'', Steve Finn took 4/41 off 21 overs on day one of Middlesex's Championship match against Somerset.

by VTR Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:30 am

guildfordbat wrote:In ''England squad player watch'', Steve Finn took 4/41 off 21 overs on day one of Middlesex's Championship match against Somerset.

Good to see - nice to have decent backup as injuries can and probably will happen.

First Test far exceeded expectations, am hoping the top order can be a bit more convincing at Lord's, my nerves can't take being 40-3 almost every match! I have to say Mark Wood is a hell of a find, he wasn't really someone that you heard much about but has looked like an international player from day one. It goes to show that FC stats are not always the best indicator, some players just have that ability to step up and could actually be stagnating in county cricket.

by Gooseberry Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:49 am

Bresnans had a decnt seaosn to. We could ditch the old guard and Wood to get rid of the worringly long tail, bat Rashid at 8, Woakes at 9 and Bresnan at 10 and Bell drop to 11.

by Azzy Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:00 am

kingraf wrote:What is really funny has been people now doing mental gymnastics regarding Cook's captaincy. I don't know why, but people really do seem to have a hard time accepting that a 10+ year pro actually has an idea of how to lead a squad. His team scored 700 runs at four an over, and got 20 wickets in 160-odd overs. All without him contributing any runs... Put paid to the "only a good captain when leading from the front" spiel.

It's odd how Cook appears to have improved his captaincy over the last year. We ignored his shortcomings when he was scoring runs, but then the runs dried up and his captaincy was closely scrutinized. Now he's gotten over that and looks every inch a world class captain. It's either testament to the hard work he's put in, or the new coaching regime (too soon for that kind of impact) or some other unknown factor. But it's great to see.

by VTR Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:05 am

I think Cook's improved captaincy owes a lot to having a better bowling attack. It's only one personnel change, but having Wood to come on instead of Chris Jordan i.e. another wicket taker must make captaining the team so much easier. Also Broad is getting back to his best after feeling his way back from injury

by **LondonTiger** Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:25 am

Captaincy is much easier when you have bowlers in form and fielders not dropping the ball.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:37 am

I was gonna say you look a lot better when the fielders you place there actually catch it rather than shell it

by The Great Aukster Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:13 am

There's still a question over Cook being too conservative as a captain. He has had teams repeatedly in trouble at 150 for five and not won those games (e.g. 1st Test in WI).

The Cardiff Test has seen a lot more creative Cook with his field settings and bowling changes, although there were a couple of times I'd wished he had persevered with his attacking fielders. When Warner and Smith were trying to hit their way out of trouble, it seemed as if Cook was itching to revert to previous type and go defensive too soon.

Strauss would often bat too long before declaring and draw games he should have won. Cook has grown up in that mindset, so having the new coaching set-up has probably challenged him to try to win games rather than not lose them. There was a tentativeness against both Sri Lanka and the West Indies that has been refreshingly freed up against the Kiwis and now in Cardiff - long may it continue.

by Stella Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:37 am

Cook is under orders to be more positive from the new bosses. He's even batting like it, which is wrong imo. We would have grounded out a lead of 500 under Moores or Flower.

by LivinginItaly Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:46 am

Cook needs to be careful that he doesn't get carried away with the new positive attacking mentality when he is batting. We need him to bat at his own pace and be the anchor for our innings, the others are more than capable of providing the attacking minded aspect to our game.

by Stella Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:52 am

LivinginItaly wrote:Cook needs to be careful that he doesn't get carried away with the new positive attacking mentality when he is batting. We need him to bat at his own pace and be the anchor for our innings, the others are more than capable of providing the attacking minded aspect to our game.

Agree with that.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:53 am

Stella wrote:Cook is under orders to be more positive from the new bosses. He's even batting like it, which is wrong imo. We would have grounded out a lead of 500 under Moores or Flower.

Good job we didn't try to bat long, saw pictures of Cardiff on Sunday - twas under water

by The Great Aukster Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:24 pm

Makes it all the more baffling that Australia didn't try to bat long. They could have reached say 250 for 5 at close by just playing low risk cricket and at least given the weather a chance to affect the result. Allan Border must have been apoplectic.

by Stella Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:34 pm

Olly wrote:
Stella wrote:Cook is under orders to be more positive from the new bosses. He's even batting like it, which is wrong imo. We would have grounded out a lead of 500 under Moores or Flower.

Good job we didn't try to bat long, saw pictures of Cardiff on Sunday - twas under water

Yep, England would have looked at the weather. Not sure the Aussies did, considering the way they batted, as mentioned above.

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