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French Open 2015 - Day 11. LET'S GET REEEEEEADY TO RUUUUUMMMMMBLE!

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Post by HM Murdock Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

I thought I'd take a turn at starting the thread!

Chatrier
Women's Singles - Quarterfinal
Serena Williams (USA) [1] vs.Sara Errani (ITA) [17]

Men's Singles - Quarterfinal
Novak Djokovic (SRB) [1]vs.Rafael Nadal (ESP) [6]

Lenglen
Women's Singles - Quarterfinal
Timea Bacsinszky (SUI) [23] vs.Alison Van Uytvanck (BEL)

Men's Singles - Quarterfinal
Andy Murray (GBR) [3]vs.David Ferrer (ESP) [7]

I'll end with a short message for Novak:


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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:39 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:I've seen both Andy and Stan drive Novak a bit crazy.

This is a long way from done.
Agreed. I just hope Stan beats Tsonga as I cannot see Tsonga having any chance in the final.

Stan can play Nole as he has shown before. He is the only player who has taken Nole to 5 sets in this year's slam play.

Whoever wins, we will have a brand new RG champ.

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:40 pm

4-3 and a ship steadying hold for Muzz, thats an important hold.

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:42 pm

Can we just give Serena the womens trohpy now and move on to the mens stuff? Its gonna be an agitating wait tomorrow

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Post by kingraf Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:42 pm

summerblues wrote:
HM Murdoch wrote:I've seen both Andy and Stan drive Novak a bit crazy.

This is a long way from done.
Agreed. I just hope Stan beats Tsonga as I cannot see Tsonga having any chance in the final.

Stan can play Nole as he has shown before. He is the only player who has taken Nole to 5 sets in this year's slam play.

Whoever wins, we will have a brand new RG champ.

Jo had match points vs Djokovic in 2012 here. Wawrinka has gone to five with Djokovic as a habit. One might be easier, but both can win.
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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:45 pm

kingraf wrote:
summerblues wrote:
HM Murdoch wrote:I've seen both Andy and Stan drive Novak a bit crazy.

This is a long way from done.
Agreed.  I just hope Stan beats Tsonga as I cannot see Tsonga having any chance in the final.

Stan can play Nole as he has shown before.  He is the only player who has taken Nole to 5 sets in this year's slam play.

Whoever wins, we will have a brand new RG champ.

Jo had match  points vs Djokovic in 2012 here. Wawrinka has gone to five with Djokovic as a habit. One might be easier, but both can win.
Lets just hope the four remaining mens matches are great. Be a wonderful story if any of the last 5 guys won it.

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Post by Matchpoint Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:50 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:I will pull out all the stops to win the match,” Nadal said in Spanish. “I don’t have this problem of nerves that I suffered from at the start of the year, so we will attempt to move forward. The year is not over. I will fight to the bitter end.”


Im sure that as he says Novak knows what to do... the question remains is he going to be able to do it?
Unfortunately, Nadal's version today to "pull all the stops" wasn't good enough. Better luck next time.  thumbsup

Djokovic lived up to his every word of "I know what to do, " no question. Well done. clap

Pre-match, I always felt there was an air of inevitability to Djokovic's win over Nadal today, but I didn't expect it to be so straight forward. Contrary to the popular argument that he WILL rise in RG his special tournament venue he knows so well, Nadal essentially collapsed towards the end. 

Djoko hasn't lifted the trophy yet. Still a way to go....

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:50 pm

kingraf wrote:Jo had match  points vs Djokovic in 2012 here.
I knew someone would remind me of that Smile

Fair enough, he might have a chance I just cannot see him stringing enough good matches together. I imagine if he makes the final he will just blow up there. Whereas I think Stan might have a better chance to play well there.

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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:53 pm

Well I expected that I thought Novak would brain fart a set to Nadal and he almost did it in the 1st set. But Nadal is not near his best and Djokovic is pretty close to his top level. I think Novak played brilliantly except for that period he gave a double break lead up. If Novak could have played his break points better this could have been even more lopsided.

As I said earlier on this thread this match is a quarterfinal nothing more and nothing less. Djokovic has a lot more work to do Murray is the second most in form guy on tour right now and either Tsonga or Wawrinka can beat Novak. Wawrinka is so good on these slower courts where he has bit more time for the return and more time for his huge swings off both wings. Tsonga has the power and will have huge crowd support. Personally, I would favor a Tsonga matchup because Novak can safely work Jo's backhand. Against Wawrinka he has no clear edge or weakness to work on off the ground.

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:53 pm

Matchpoint wrote:Contrary to the popular argument that he WILL rise in RG his special tournament venue he knows so well, Nadal essentially collapsed towards the end.
Yeah, I was quite surprised how meekly he went.  It was very one sided throughout - if anything the scoreline is flattering him.

He did not play absolutely horrible but he did not play better than what he has been doing the rest of the clay court season.  It looks like HB may have been right when he was saying all along that Rafa vs Nole matches tend to go with the form without that many shockers.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:53 pm

Players like Stan and Jo are capable on a good day of beating Novak but perhaps more so in a R4 or QF. When it's a final I think it's a little harder.

Novak is so experienced at managing his emotions and fitness right to the end of a slam, while the others have more danger of being overwhelmed by the occassion. I don't see it this year.

Also I think this slow clay Stan can't hit through Novak and match him like he can on hard. Neither is really a natural clay player.

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Post by kingraf Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:54 pm

temporary21 wrote:
kingraf wrote:
summerblues wrote:
HM Murdoch wrote:I've seen both Andy and Stan drive Novak a bit crazy.

This is a long way from done.
Agreed.  I just hope Stan beats Tsonga as I cannot see Tsonga having any chance in the final.

Stan can play Nole as he has shown before.  He is the only player who has taken Nole to 5 sets in this year's slam play.

Whoever wins, we will have a brand new RG champ.

Jo had match  points vs Djokovic in 2012 here. Wawrinka has gone to five with Djokovic as a habit. One might be easier, but both can win.
Lets just hope the four remaining mens matches are great. Be a wonderful story if any of the last 5 guys won it.

Indeed. Any of them. Except Djokovic. And Murray. And Ferrer. And Tsonga
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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:55 pm

All this talk about how Novak isn't a good volleyer I saw him make so many good volleys and approaches to the net today. His half volley off of a second serve and volley was absolutely incredible it was Edbergesque. Yes if you hit 20 or 30 volleys in a match you will miss a couple especially with the bite and torque on the modern ground strokes. This isn't your local club duffer's ball you sneak in and knock off.

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:56 pm

socal1976 wrote:Djokovic has a lot more work to do Murray is the second most in form guy on tour right now
They are both undefeated this clay court season.  Andy certainly has a chance.

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Post by TRuffin Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:58 pm

If that was Nadal "going to the ends of earth" or "die trying" to hold onto his RG title, then he's in real career trouble now.

It will be interesting to see if he can massively overhaul his game and be a threat to Djoko- esp off of clay.

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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:59 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Players like Stan and Jo are capable on a good day of beating Novak but perhaps more so in a R4 or QF. When it's a final I think it's a little harder.

Novak is so experienced at managing his emotions and fitness right to the end of a slam, while the others have more danger of being overwhelmed by the occassion. I don't see it this year.

Also I think this slow clay Stan can't hit through Novak and match him like he can on hard. Neither is really a natural clay player.

I actually think clay and slow hardcourt are Stan's best surfaces. He has won a masters on clay and he needs a bit more time on the return. I personally think Stan or Jo would have been Novak's toughest matchup from that half in a final when the draw was made out. I think if Tsonga gets through it will be more routine. Stan will be a war and at best 60-40 Djokovic.

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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:01 pm

summerblues wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Djokovic has a lot more work to do Murray is the second most in form guy on tour right now
They are both undefeated this clay court season.  Andy certainly has a chance.

I think Andy is going to give Novak problems, prior to this year I always scratched my head as how Murray's game didn't translate to more clay court success. This year he finally seems to put that behind him. I still think Novak lifting the trophy with what is left in the field is a little better than 50-50. Especially, if Wawrinka gets through.

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:01 pm

socal1976 wrote:Stan will be a war and at best 60-40 Djokovic.
I agree Stan has a chance but not 40% chance. Maybe 75-25 or even 80-20. Not a given win, but Nole definitely a strong favorite.

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:02 pm

What is Andy doing? This should have been over by now.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Yes SB, to me this result was practically baked in about half way through the clay season.

To my eyes, Djokovic is not a natural volleyer to the standards of a no 1, even Nadal has better hands. He is still a good volleyer by most standards though.

Good point about clay at times actually favouring a big hitter so this is debatable it can go either way - Soderling was a hard hitter who did well indoors and had 2 RG finals which he couldn't achieve at other slams.

However this year the ball seems to bounce low, it's not the rear up kind of slow bounce that favours big hitters, it's more like slow-low, which perhaps means it favours defenders who can hit from low positions but not big hitters. So I don't think it will favour Tsonga or Stan.

I've never seen a court as friendly to drop shots as this one. The only one that comes close was the village court my brother and I played on about 20-25 years ago when there were puddles near the net.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:05 pm

I think Federer was marginally Djokovic's toughest threat, the guy knows how to defend on clay and knows his way around finals. He might have 20-30% chance against Djokovic in the final. Tsonga I would give about 10% chance, Stan about 15%.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:06 pm

I mean toughest threat from that half.

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Post by Matchpoint Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:06 pm

Jahu wrote:Rafa's career is over Laugh
Nah, he'll be back. What's over is his clay dominance. End of a long Nadal era at RG.

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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:09 pm

It is strange but I don't feel any real accomplishment in this Novak win. I felt he would win, and that it would be relatively routine. I thought 4 because I factored in a Djokovic brain fart which occurred but he was still able to win that set. I mean there is so much left to be done out there with an in form Murray and the guys in the other half that there really isn't much happiness in this win.

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:11 pm

Spain not looking so funny all of a sudden. Daveed doing what he always does

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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:11 pm

Henman Bill wrote:I think Federer was marginally Djokovic's toughest threat, the guy knows how to defend on clay and knows his way around finals. He might have 20-30% chance against Djokovic in the final. Tsonga I would give about 10% chance, Stan about 15%.


I disagree, Novak can break down Roger's backhand on clay. He can't do the same to Stan. Arguably, Stan is Novak's equal off the ground off both wings and is certainly more explosive in terms of power. Novak has a big edge in the return and his mobility. Stan to me hits a heavier ball than Roger and you can't just play routine balls to his backhand and defend till he makes an error like you can with Roger. I think Stan is at worst a 2 to 1 dog.

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:14 pm

socal1976 wrote:It is strange but I don't feel any real accomplishment in this Novak win.
Yeah, it ended up feeling much like an ordinary QF.

Rafa was unable to lift his level from what he has been doing throughout 2015.  And that leaves him somewhere around maybe 3rd to 6th best clay courter around - i.e., nowhere near (and that is an understatement) where he used to be.

Incidentally, three of the players that beat Rafa this clay court season (Nole, Andy and Stan) are still in the tournament.  I think on current form, the SF and final may indeed be harder for Nole than today's match.

Or David may still win today and then Nole will have a walk-in-the-park semi.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:15 pm

Oh god if Andy doesn't win in 4 Novak will obliterate him picard

Andy has to put this match away or he will make me look a mug.
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Post by HM Murdock Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:20 pm

10 DFs from Ferrer so far this much.

Awful serving.

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:21 pm

Has ferrer ever had the yips on his serve before?

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:22 pm

3-0 Murray. Haven't we been here before?

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:22 pm

This year is more like 2009 in more ways than one. Like with roger it's all about whether Novak can hold his nerve now. If he can he's nailed on really just a question of keeping calm

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:27 pm

temporary21 wrote:This year is more like 2009 in more ways than one. Like with roger it's all about whether Novak can hold his nerve now.
Yeah, exactly.  And Roger found it pretty tough going that year.  I would not be surprised if Nole were to lose.  Especially to Andy.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:27 pm

Come on! A hold here should do it.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:27 pm

Murray is a beast at chasing things down, Ferrer has met his match here. 4-0.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:28 pm

Socal, do you rank Murray or Stan as a harder opponent for Djokovic at this tournament?

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:29 pm

Well done Andy. I feared a 5 setter 15 mins ago. That's great strength.  His match with Novak would be more interesting

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:30 pm

If Raonic had played in this French then Djokovic-Nadal wouldn't happen until semi's.

Raonic is the new Fognini 2011 Wink
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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:31 pm

In that case Nadal would have gone out a round later. No real difference to him.  Plus a Novak raonic quarter would be even less interesting

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:32 pm

HM Murdoch wrote:10 DFs from Ferrer so far this much.

Awful serving.

It's because Murray is putting such pressure on his second serve that he's forcing him to go for more than he's comfortable. Take the BP at 3-0, where Ferrer hits an average second serve, Murray's all over it, and Ferrer's pretty much lost the point before it's even begun.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:36 pm

2 MPs saved now. Andy could really afford to charge the net more. It was crying out for it on MP after a great return.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:37 pm

temporary21 wrote:In that case Nadal would have gone out a round later. No real difference to him.  Plus a Novak raonic quarter would be even less interesting
He could've been more pumped up by the semi's in even hotter weather and more 'drilled in'.

Very big asterisk whoever wins this slam because they didn't beat Nadal in the semi's/final Wink
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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:39 pm

Not convinced a round more would have done a thing. Too much difference in form this time

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Post by summerblues Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:39 pm

Good that Andy did not waste too much time or energy in the 4th set. His SF vs Nole could be interesting.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:39 pm

Well done Andy. Great response in the 4th after the disappointment of missed chances in the 3rd.

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Post by laverfan Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:40 pm

Djokovic v Murray set. Looking forward to it. Ferrer did well to nick a set.

Welcome to the dirt, Murray! clap

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Post by Silver Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:45 pm

I missed the whole thing. Was it as sad as the scoreline looks? Poor Nadal.

But congrats to Novak and fans. At last, the hurdle is cleared...but still work to be done. Based on everything that's happened since the USO last year, this is a massive opportunity for Djokovic to put his mark on the sport. Not just at RG but over the next few years.

Edit: Well done Andy!

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Post by temporary21 Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:52 pm

Wasn't really sad at all. Nadal seemed content he'd been beaten by a better bloke. No nonsense cebrations from Novak.  Respect and energy saving.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:00 pm

Novak should've done the slit throat sign to Rafa to show him who the new king is. Great result for real tennis.

Will anyone bother with a day 12? zen
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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:12 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Socal, do you rank Murray or Stan as a harder opponent for Djokovic at this tournament?

It is tough to say because they haven't played on clay in awhile and Andy looks really good on clay this season. I would say because of his movement, his pedigree, the fact that he has beaten Novak before over 5 sets I would say that Andy is the tougher matchup. I think maybe he is 2 to 1 over wawrinka and a sixty percent favorite over Murray.

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Post by socal1976 Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:16 pm

summerblues wrote:
socal1976 wrote:It is strange but I don't feel any real accomplishment in this Novak win.
Yeah, it ended up feeling much like an ordinary QF.

Rafa was unable to lift his level from what he has been doing throughout 2015.  And that leaves him somewhere around maybe 3rd to 6th best clay courter around - i.e., nowhere near (and that is an understatement) where he used to be.

Incidentally, three of the players that beat Rafa this clay court season (Nole, Andy and Stan) are still in the tournament.  I think on current form, the SF and final may indeed be harder for Nole than today's match.

Or David may still win today and then Nole will have a walk-in-the-park semi.

Yeah, I think all three of remaining guys will give Djokvovic a tougher match. Stan hits so huge off the ground and serve. I think the slower courts help him more than Djoko who likes to take things early and stand closer to the baseline as he is less margin for error. Murray is on hot streak and playing his best ever clay court tennis. Then you look at Tsonga if he gets to the final he will have the huge support of a French crowd and he himself is a guy who has big power and can use variety and flair as well. Nadal just isn't where he needs to be in terms of shot making. He just could not hit through Novak. The one shot he used to have that could do it was the down the line FH. He hit a couple of good ones today but missed too many and didn't get enough penetration on a lot of the ones he hit. Also Novak in my mind is no longer as surprised by that play like he was in 2013. He doesn't leave that much room on that side and covers it better when he does.

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