Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :


2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder,  Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

[LondonTiger]

O'conner out for 6 weeks, o. Williams 8 with a double fracture to his jaw.

We really need to make sure our FHs get their jaw well out of the way of opposing second rowers kness.

[king_carlos]

Cockers has reversed his previous squad change of switching Aguero for Mulipola. So Logo is now available but Aguero isn't, apparently he's injured. I guess Cockers is looking to keep the 2 other transfers free to add JDV and possibly a hooker if needed.

Given 3 additions can be made to the squad for the knockout stages it seems odd not to just add JDV now.

Apparently Manu will start and get about 40 minutes, possibly more.

Mulipola, Youngs, Cole, De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Croft, McCaffery, Pearce
Youngs, Burns, Camacho, Smith, Tuilagi, Thompstone, Tait

Bench: Thacker, Ayerza, Balmain, Barrow, Fonau, Harrison, Bell, Betham/Catchpole

Hopefully see something like that. Week off for Kitch and TV.

[LondonTiger]

Is niki injured, or just forgotten?

[king_carlos]

I was under the impression he took a knock LT.

If he was rested to allow Manu to slot in then I'd recall him to start and give Betham or Thompstone the weekend off.

[king_carlos]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/12101347/How-Leicester-Tigers-double-act-of-Aaron-Mauger-and-Richard-Cockerill-is-building-something-very-special.html

An interesting Greenwood article about Tigers turnaround this season.

Much of it is pointing out the more obvious (trying to marry the old fashioned Tigers forward work and hard nosed stuff with fluid back play). There are however some interesting points such as how much calmer Cockers seems this year with Mauger alongside him.

From a playing point of view the bit about backs passing with their outside foot forward to make sure they fix their man is interesting. As is the point of backs running with shoulders squarer and hips squarer with a lot of time given to firing short sharp passes rather than over-complicating things. Good examples of Mauger taking his strengths as a player and passing them on.

[LondonTiger]

Having looked back at the tape of this weekends game i was able to confirm my feeling from the stand that both our hookers had struck for every scrum on our put in, which meant that the ball was back at Cranes feet very quickly.

will be interesting to see if they can continue that against a better front row.

[nathan]

Having looked back at the tape of this weekends game i was able to confirm my feeling from the stand that both our hookers had struck for every scrum on our put in, which meant that the ball was back at Cranes feet very quickly.

will be interesting to see if they can continue that against a better front row.

That's not possible tiger, neither can youngs nor Thacker can hook!

[No 7&1/2]

Don't do it....

[formerly known as Sam]

Having looked back at the tape of this weekends game i was able to confirm my feeling from the stand that both our hookers had struck for every scrum on our put in, which meant that the ball was back at Cranes feet very quickly.

will be interesting to see if they can continue that against a better front row.

That's not possible tiger, neither can youngs nor Thacker can hook!

Thacker actually hooks the ball very well. Given his lack of size it's the only way he can compete in a scrum. He's very good at getting the ball back quickly. Now if we could add a couple if stone to his frame...

[king_carlos]

If Thacker was 6 inches taller and 3 stone heavier then he'd be the most complete hooker in England. He hits his throw, can hook and is great around the park. Sadly he isn't though. I really hope he moves to openside. At hooker he will only ever be 2/3 choice at best for us, he's too talented to do that for his career. Due to his size he's never going to be a guy we want to regularly start in the front row in top of the table clashes or vital ERCC games.

Rumours that Tommy Bell will head to LI next season. It wouldn't be a surprise with Burns, Williams and Toomua covering 10 and Tait, TV, Morris and JPP at full back. I rate him highly and think he's improving so I would be sad to see him move on. He understandably will want more game time than he's likely to get though.

[LondonTiger]

I was unable to make the special meeting last week about the delays to the new stand and inconvenience caused. However nice to see that we will be getting free tickets to the ECC 1/4 final as part of the compensation package.

[king_carlos]

Cockers has stated that Manu wont go into camp with England until after the 3rd 6 Nations game at earliest, "they will play those first 3 games and in that second fallow week, we will have a discussion".

He also seems adamant that Manu will only be released if the Tigers staff as well as England deem him ready. Positive stuff.

Odogwu has been included in the England U-20 EPS for the 6 Nations. He is the only Tiger there though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Shame Paolo in the only selection. I'd have thought our prop Logan (sp?) would have been selected. I guess Farnworth, Bryant, Beckett and Owen no longer qualify. I presume White and Tuilagi are with the under 18s.

Sensible stance on Manu. No point rushing him back. England are not short on centres.

[Exiledinborders]

Odogwu has been included in the England U-20 EPS for the 6 Nations. He is the only Tiger there though.

Regarding the U-20 EPS why is it that Tigers do not seem to have much talent in their academy? Tigers seem to have given up on developing players and seem to want to concentrate on importing SH players.

[LondonTiger]

Odogwu has been included in the England U-20 EPS for the 6 Nations. He is the only Tiger there though.

Regarding the U-20 EPS why is it that Tigers do not seem to have much talent in their academy? Tigers seem to have given up on developing players and seem to want to concentrate on importing SH players.

We have had 2/3 players in the JWC final squads pretty much forever - but those players have not kicked on and left for other clubs. Our academy (ie the U18s) play england and Wales U18s each year and tend to win - so talent is there. The full academy have been among the top four sides in the new(ish) academy league since it started.

The England age group set-up hardly changes from U16 to U20, and to get into it is really helped by being at a major rugby playing school. Many academies have a catchment areas that includes such schools that offer scholarships to promising players. We do not have such a school.

[LondonTiger]

I wish we could do better though as homegrown players often seem to deliver above their abiity, however I would like to point out that very few premiership sides have many of their own acdemy graduates in their first choice team.

I do hope that we will again have players who attend our Academy and become Lions (6 on the last tour)

[formerly known as Sam]

Don't think that's the case. During the MOC years we had a real problem with trusting young players particularly in the backs. This was particular true with us rolling out Hamilton over Lewington despite Hamilton having massive fitness issues.

After he left we've been getting better at bringing in younger players. We've seen a lot of Balmain, Harrison and Thacker recently. The two young Italians Pasquali and Brugnara have come through with differing success. We've had a couple of young lads on the bench who look like future stars most notably the 17 year old scrum half who made his debut in the AP this season.

Hopefully we'll see some more keep coming through over the next few seasons.

[king_carlos]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-INJURY-NEWS-broken-arm-long/story-28571785-detail/story.html

Fonau out for another 3 months after re-breaking the same arm as earlier in the season. Really bad luck for the bloke after the work he did to get into better shape after arriving for pre-season.

Leo and Bateman won't be fit for Stade but should be for Gloucs the week after. JDV isn't fit yet either but wouldn't have featured against Stade anyway as he isn't registered.

Van Vurren trial has been extended to the end of the 6 Nations. I'm a broken record but I really hope that the return of Leo and Bateman, EPS exclusion of OTY and Van Vurren trial is used as an opportunity to give wee Harry a go at 7. Even if Leo goes away on 6 Nations duty I'd rather see Van Vurren given a chance from the bench. Especially whilst O'Connor's injured as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

Depends whether the big bok is a registered player. Whilst on trial he's not registered as a player and so isn't technically under the cap I think I'm right in saying. If we bring him into the squad then anything we'll have paid him whilst on trial will count. As such we may be loath to pull the trigger on that unless we really have too.

I'd also like to see what Thacker could do without the burden of pushing at scrum time taking his energy away.

[Welly]

I reckon with predicted players leaving there is still cap for

a Big name front row signing.

Either TH prop (Guessing Logo is viewed more as a LH)
or
Hooker

With the other being a younger player with great potential (Maybe McGuigan mold)

[formerly known as Sam]

Not sure it'll be a big name as such but I expect an international or two to be added to the front row. Perhaps a PI or NZ hooker then maybe looking closer to home for the additional prop.

[Welly]

Reckon it would be easier to find it vice versa TBH.

[formerly known as Sam]

With the number of Italian props coming through recently I just assume we've got scouts over there and Italy is always stocked with props. Plenty of good NZ hookers.

[DaveM]

We have had 2/3 players in the JWC final squads pretty much forever - but those players have not kicked on and left for other clubs. Our academy (ie the U18s) play england and Wales U18s each year and tend to win - so talent is there. The full academy have been among the top four sides in the new(ish) academy league since it started.

The England age group set-up hardly changes from U16 to U20, and to get into it is really helped by being at a major rugby playing school. Many academies have a catchment areas that includes such schools that offer scholarships to promising players. We do not have such a school.

A combination of familiarity and physicality probably helps your guys beat the representative sides. I think there definitely has been a problem with your academy and the way the transition is handled. A couple of years back I read a comment from someone from someone who followed u-18 and schools rugby very closely, and he said that the Leicester academy was different to all the others because when Leicester sides turned up they seemed to be entirely focussed on the win. Hence they often played a limited and very physical game, rather than looking like they were trying to develop the skills of individual players.

I et the impression things might have changed both in the academy (whilst again their is only a single Leicester player in the u20 squad, Odogwu, I think there is more talent down the age groups) and in terms of giving players chances, as well as playing a more ambitious brand of rugby which is more likely to produce internationals. This is good as Leicester have punched below their weight for too long.

[formerly known as Sam]

You say that but this weekend there is six academy graduates in our starting 15. Six went on the last Lions tour.

Having said that there were some serious issues with one or two I the coaches in the old academy set up. I knew a young lad who know is in a league academy (was a unit of a 12 a union) who told me he'd been a the trials and the only thing the coaches were interested in was which school he'd been to. Troy Thacker was particularly guilty of this but he's now gone (I've heard negative things from other sources about him as a coach) and we've also replaced the head of the academy. So hopefully we'll see more of a conveyor belt.

Someone a while a go told me Tigers looked to recruit a handful of special players and then a number of athletes. The athletes were in the academy to allow the special talents to flourish in a winning environment. It wasn't about quantity of production it was about bringing through two or three key players every few years. That has certainly played out over the last five or six years but I know a coach who has been introduced to the new set up and that isn't the goal currently.

[DaveM]

Interesting contrast from that old Tigers approach to that of Saracens, where I think they have quite a small in-take in each year to keep the level of quality and individual attention up.

[formerly known as Sam]

I suspect Tigers will move to that system. We don't have a massively successful private rugby school on the doorstep. We have a couple of smaller good ones but nothing the likes of Hartbury college for instance. I suspect closer links to Loughborough Uni and College will be worked on. It'll be interesting to see what the new regime accomplish particularly because the guy in charge of the academy, scouting etc is also the guy who is hotly tipped to be heading the board in the future when Cohen retires.

[Welly]

Glynn as CEO are you sure?

How is Oakham doing ATM? Have they lost there edge ATM in rugby?

[formerly known as Sam]

Give it ten years and Glyn will have all the experience to run the club, he's gone from head scout to head scout and controlling all teams below senior level. Between him and our new Jersey investor club we will be fine long run.

[Exiledinborders]

I suspect Tigers will move to that system. We don't have a massively successful private rugby school on the doorstep. We have a couple of smaller good ones but nothing the likes of Hartbury college for instance. I suspect closer links to Loughborough Uni and College will be worked on. It'll be interesting to see what the new regime accomplish particularly because the guy in charge of the academy, scouting etc is also the guy who is hotly tipped to be heading the board in the future when Cohen retires.

Hartpury College is not a private school. It is part of the University of University of the West of England.

[LondonTiger]

So, which of the injured hookers is fit this weekend, with OTY taking a one week "rest"

[formerly known as Sam]

We only need someone off the bench as Thacker can start and looked good against Stade. Cockers had said both hookers should be fit. Leo has been out longer so probably Bateman set for return first? Leo will be chomping at the bit to prove he's fit for the six nations though.

[formerly known as Sam]

15 and 8 weeks for the Stade hooker and lock. Means one of the two will miss the fixture at Welford Rd.

[LondonTiger]

Simon Cohen talks about future ground developments on LTTV. Most interestingly (for me) he mentions work starts on a Multi Story Car Park in april at the start, but later just mentions they have filed a planning application for a 450 capacity MSCP where the Crumbie car park is. He states that should we be sold the Granby Halls site it will not be a car park, but gives no indication what it would be.

[formerly known as Sam]

The Mercury reported that the Granby Halls site would incorporate a fan zone for games, presumably with the car parking moving to behind the Crumbie. Also mentions a hotel at the far tip of the car park so presumably they'll be halving the space with one half hotel and the half closest to the ground a fan zone with kiosks, music etc.

[king_carlos]

We only need someone off the bench as Thacker can start and looked good against Stade. Cockers had said both hookers should be fit. Leo has been out longer so probably Bateman set for return first? Leo will be chomping at the bit to prove he's fit for the six nations though.

It's been confirmed in the Merc that Bateman will be fit for Gloucs at the weekend. Leo is still out, as is JDV who's still recovering from a calf injury.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-NEWS-Martin-Crowson-s-Inside/story-28618728-detail/story.html

On a different note this is quite a fun interview with Croft and Matt Smith talking about being best mates and how well Smith is playing this year. Hopefully Croftys pleasure at Smith signing a new deal means that he too is planning on hanging around.

[formerly known as Sam]

No Cole or Lenny this weekend though. Front row might be under pressure with Ayerza, Thacker, Balmain. Going to need the young lads to perform with Mulipola and Pas on the bench we should be oi but I can't see us dominating. Would be handy to see the return of Aguero.

[DaveM]

The Mercury reported that the Granby Halls site would incorporate a fan zone for games, presumably with the car parking moving to behind the Crumbie. Also mentions a hotel at the far tip of the car park so presumably they'll be halving the space with one half hotel and the half closest to the ground a fan zone with kiosks, music etc.

Any plans for a hybrid pitch?

[formerly known as Sam]

Nothing further mentioned. 4G pitch is out of the question. Other plans have been mentioned by the club but I think any deso (sp?) pitch will only happen if we don't get the Granby Halls site. We don't have an endless supply of money so can only do so many projects at once.

[nathan]

Let's just hope the finish the new stand soon so can repair the pitch

[formerly known as Sam]

They won't be able to relay the pitch at that end until after the end of the season. They need a certain amount of time for the pitch to bed in.

[DaveM]

Nothing further mentioned. 4G pitch is out of the question. Other plans have been mentioned by the club but I think any deso  (sp?) pitch will only happen if we don't get the Granby Halls site. We don't have an endless supply of money so can only do so many projects at once.

4G pitches are ok, but hybrid ones are much better. Wouldn't this be a more sensible spending priority, particularly are you are trying to play more expansive rugby now?

[LondonTiger]

Pitch needs to be sorted, but the findings on most of the artifiical pitches is indicating that they agravate (and perhaps even cause) joint problems. Perhaps the kind of hybrid that Murrayfield now have would be good, but the 4G pitches as used by Sarries are a complete no go.

[LondonTiger]

Manu out for a couple of weeks with a hamstring tweak.

[formerly known as Sam]

We have the no training facilities that are half built and need completing. The new stand that needs completing. Then the council have decided to auction off the Granby Halls site and Tigers are one of three bids being considered. Can't really shove any of them on the back burner for a hybrid pitch. The actual pitch itself is in good nick this season it's just the in goal area in front of the new stand that is a sand pit.

[DaveM]

Fair enough. I'm with Brian Moore in that I think it should be an AP playing condition that either 4G or hybrid pitches are in place, but I agree Leicester don't appear t have the worst pitch out there.

[Exiledinborders]

Nothing further mentioned. 4G pitch is out of the question. Other plans have been mentioned by the club but I think any deso  (sp?) pitch will only happen if we don't get the Granby Halls site. We don't have an endless supply of money so can only do so many projects at once.

Just as a matter of interest why is a 4G pitch out of the question. They are a money saver in the long term and can be used seven days a week.

[LondonTiger]

There is growing evidence that 4G pitches both cause and exacerbate knee, hip and groin injuries. So many teams now when visiting Sarries and Newcastle leave out any player with a history of these kind of injuries. We have a number of players in that category who effectively could not play at home.

Then there is the cost - for as long as we have a lease on a separate training facility there is minimal need for 7 days a week use. Meanwhile the funds we do have available to spend are already ear-marked for developments that will increase the clubs income.

[formerly known as Sam]

4G pitches are tough on the body. At uni I played five a side on them and you know afterwards. There's not a lot of give in them. Incidentally I've also played on the hybrid pitch Tigers have at Oval Park and it's awful and one of the reasons that Tigers aren't keen to be solely reliant on that technology. They don't last forever and need replacing at much cost eventually.

The new car park being built behind the Crumbie is worth considerably more to the club financially. It's vital we get the Granby Halls site on the other side. Else we're odds on to have another generic private student living monstrosity right bang in front of the club's biggest stand. It'll look terrible and effect what the club can offer on match day.

[DaveM]

I wonder where Tigers got their hybrid pitch from? They seem to work brilliantly elsewhere.

Also you have to wonder if there is evidence of Saracens and Newcastle having greater incidence of impact related injuries, given their player play on the pitches the most in the AP?

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