Argentina v NZ

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Wow they really are the AB's....even all wearing black boots!

I'd love Arg to get a losing bonus point but they're sadly fading badly now. Good battling performance though.

Yep Scottrf, but they'll suffer from here on in I think.  That's a long time on the clock when you're playing the ABs

Fantastic handling for that try - draw and pass, draw and pass

SBW and Smith have been on a different planet

surely refs will notice NZ delaying rolling away by about 3-4 seconds each time

Ayerza looks fecked

nathan wrote:surely refs will notice NZ delaying rolling away by about 3-4 seconds each time

Well the one ref that should notice these things is the one on the field as you speak

SecretFly wrote:

nathan wrote:surely refs will notice NZ delaying rolling away by about 3-4 seconds each time

Well the one ref that should notice these things is the one on the field as you speak

state the obvious! he does coming under the category of refs

Arg Ireland could be fun in a quarter final.

Never seen so many mistakes from nz before

Only a matter of time before Argentina get a win in this fixture. Gap seems less and less every year, even if there still is a big one.

ABs are using Plan D-65 from shelf B.7. Be messy and mostly stroll and just win.

SecretFly wrote:ABs are using Plan D-65 from shelf B.7.   Be messy and mostly stroll and just win.  

just like England on Friday lol

Quality opening weekend.

That would have been a different score if Sonny Bill Williams wasn't brought on.

SBW is ridiculous. I think he could play anywhere too.

Best performance from a losing team across the eight games.

...and one of the worst performances from a winning team?

Not convinced by the tactics of getting Savea to do pick and goes - he's far more destructive out wide with 1 on 1s

No. It was the best performance of the day by a winning team.

Scottrf wrote:No. It was the best performance of the day by a winning team.

Always going to be a win...but from that side? I think more Phone-in.

They were below the standard you expect you expect from a NZ side. But it was hardly awful rugby, Arg played very well. England made a lot more errors against a much weaker side.

Stupid yellow by McCaw and not much better by Smith, Carter was lucky also not to get carded. I hate these cheap shots on the try scorer, if it was done in open play it would be a card every time.

NZ not at their best, but Argentinian tackling and line speed was immense.

The winner out of France and Ireland are going to celebrate dodging NZ for about 7 seconds and then realise they've got to play Argentina

Shame for the Argies. When they did turn over the ABs in the second half, they continued to kick away possession. Surely they needed to keep the ball for periods of time to counteract the ABs dominatin possession? Granted, a few of the times they were deep in their own half and kicking was the only option. But the rest of the time?

Shame for the Argies. And ofr the tournament. If the Argies had won, it might have been one of the most amazing weekends in RWC history.

Scoreline flattered Argentina in the end, I think. NZ will be pleased that they completely controlled the second half. A little bit more patience and composure would have seen a couple more trys.

I need to watch it again, but was Smith's yellow card at for the first penalty offence inside the 22 during that passage of play? If so, why didn't we see any Argentina yellows in the second half?
I recall one penalty where Barnes actually warned them that the next would be yellow, did NZ get any warnings before Smith's yellow?

goneagain wrote:Scoreline flattered Argentina in the end, I think. NZ will be pleased that they completely controlled the second half. A little bit more patience and composure would have seen a couple more trys.

I need to watch it again, but was Smith's yellow card at for the first penalty offence inside the 22 during that passage of play? If so, why didn't we see any Argentina yellows in the second half?
I recall one penalty where Barnes actually warned them that the next would be yellow, did NZ get any warnings before Smith's yellow?

I think there was a warning but no need anyway.  Cynical hands in the ruck that prevented a try scoring opportunity.  Yellow every time.

McCaws yellow was most unlike him.  Lives just over the edge on the ground for sure but cynical fouls on a player?  Not his style and shows how much Argentina had them rattled.  Great performance from argentina - the best two teams in the competition so far ( Scotland still to play of course )  Argentina have shown they are right up there with the SA, England etc chasing NZ.

TJ wrote:

goneagain wrote:Scoreline flattered Argentina in the end, I think. NZ will be pleased that they completely controlled the second half. A little bit more patience and composure would have seen a couple more trys.

I need to watch it again, but was Smith's yellow card at for the first penalty offence inside the 22 during that passage of play? If so, why didn't we see any Argentina yellows in the second half?
I recall one penalty where Barnes actually warned them that the next would be yellow, did NZ get any warnings before Smith's yellow?

 Cynical hands in the ruck that prevented a try scoring opportunity.  Yellow every time.

Was a ruck formed? I could be wrong, but I thought that Smith was on his feet and entitled to go for the ball anyway.

He played the ball while off his feet though

goneagain wrote:

TJ wrote:

goneagain wrote:Scoreline flattered Argentina in the end, I think. NZ will be pleased that they completely controlled the second half. A little bit more patience and composure would have seen a couple more trys.

I need to watch it again, but was Smith's yellow card at for the first penalty offence inside the 22 during that passage of play? If so, why didn't we see any Argentina yellows in the second half?
I recall one penalty where Barnes actually warned them that the next would be yellow, did NZ get any warnings before Smith's yellow?

 Cynical hands in the ruck that prevented a try scoring opportunity.  Yellow every time.

Was a ruck formed? I could be wrong, but I thought that Smith was on his feet and entitled to go for the ball anyway.

He went to ground then played it back with his hand while lying on the ground. there was a ruck formed

Fair enough. But doesn't explain why no Argentinians were yellowed in the second half.

edit- Just seen highlights vid on RWC website, I think the ball was out and he was still on his feet as he plays the ball. Interesting that Hansen says both card were warranted.

I have tosay I don't think NZ were in any way sub standard for them. The reason they looked poor is that Argentina played so well and restricted them in space adn also in time - Even NZ given no space and time can't do a great deal. the two best teams so far in the WC by a long long way. argentina of today would have beaten England of yesterday in my opinion

A very good game by both sides 3 Yellows and could have been more Barnes was consistent and used the TMO
very well.Solid All Black win against a very good Argentina side arguably the best losing side so far MOM
Brodie Retalick?Sam Whitelock was better but for me despite yellow card Conrad Smith he was everywhere.
As to Dan Carter deliberately kicking a player in the head?wheres the endless video loops of that?NOT
from the match I watched.

i think Conrad was on his feet when he played the ball

After reading paper reviews and rewatching match wondered if I was seeing the same
match.
Lets put it into context unlike most matches NZ met in theory at least the strongest
team in the Group.
With Wayne Barnes in charge it was never going to be a flowing game it`s not his style
Scrumtime he is extremely pedantic on resets but seldom sees whats going on there.
He was consistent to both sides all the Yellows were correct he used TMO brilliantly.
BUT the number of squint feeds especially by Argentina was incredible.
Argentina set out to disrupt NZ by aggressive tackling/defence except for the try
never really threatened to score another.
There was little in the Scrums NZ going for quick heel and route one,Argentina seldom
heeled[except squint feeds]and went for disruption.It worked several times BUT NZ
mullered them at least twice too.
NZ Lineout and mauls/breakdown good Whitelock catching everything no sloppy tapbacks
when back to 15 men up a gear.
Gave all the squad a run and the last 20minutes were there usual self Argentina were
totally knackered.
No sign of Argentina`s famous Rolling Maul,NZ will get better and Argentina will cause
a lot of headaches before there finished here.

Conrad came in from the side and not the gate. It was a pretty cynical act in the red zone and it deserved a yellow.

NZ in the last 20mins were very impressive. Smith, SBW and Conrad were very impressive. I thought the pack were on the back foot most of the game.

The more I watch the Smith incident, the less I agree with it. A Smith makes the tackle, B Smith goes for the ball, no ruck yet, the first Argentina player arrives and makes no atempt to support his own weight, rolls over the ball/tackled player and manages to clear out BS at the same time. As this happens CS is behind the last foot and now in contact with Argentina player. Once BS is cleared backwards out of the ruck CS is the only player in the contest on his feet (now open play?). As he stoops forward to get the ball a second Argentina player makes contact as CS scoops the ball backwards and then falls off his feet.
Penalty to NZ for the player going off his feet. Also rather unpleasant to see the Arg flanker waving an immaginary card.

Apart from all that pretty much agree that it was a decent game between two good sides. Soild defence from both, good phase play and ball retention by both at times. A few handling errors, as to be expected first game up.
As a kiwi, I think I would have preferred this match to have been the second last group game.
Wouldn't be suprised to see both of these teams in the semis.

Smith was a nailed on yellow. He came in from the side, it's as blatent a foul you'll see at the breakdown

Little bit worried that Carter ended that game at a snails pace, one strike of the ball late on barely crossed the line!

Argentina were so well drilled, I don't think NZ were poor at all, I think they just struggled to deal with Argentina's physicality.

Also, world take note, thats how you defend a maul!!!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Smith was a nailed on yellow. He came in from the side, it's as blatent a foul you'll see at the breakdown

I disagree, but the Argentina player going off his feet was the first offence.
Anyway, one of those ruck situations that can go either way in real time.

Thought Barnes did a decent job yesterday, always seem to enjoy matches he refs, even if NZ don't seem to get the same leeway on infringements inside the 22 that opposition do. Took 3 penalties in the Arg 22 in the first half before a yellow and no yellows for several in the second half. NZ commit one and it's a yellow straight away.

Taking Smith as an isolated incident, it was yellow, surely that's not a discussion?

That was a very high quality game. Pumas are very good at running straight and their broken field running was very good. Quite a few of the big boys will take comfort from how much back foot work the Blackness were forced to do.

NZ coach agrees with both yellows.

NZ one was a yellow because it was stopping a try scoring opportunity. NOne of the Arg ones were so it had to be a yellow for cumulative and 3 is not enough. They were warned tho

I think more teams will be looking at Argentina with concern than looking at NZ and smiling. For all of NZ dominance in the last few years they have been under pressure and looked beatable before getting out of jail quite a few times.
Any potential opposition of NZ will know if they play well with good discipline for 80min they are in with a chance. Easier said than done of course.

TJ wrote:NZ coach agrees with both yellows.

NZ one was a yellow because it was stopping a try scoring opportunity.  NOne of the Arg ones were so it had to be a yellow for cumulative and 3 is not enough.  They were warned tho

I'll concede the point on the Smith card, given that the Argentina player not supporting his own weight was ignored.

Well I didn't learn anything from the match. First half, Argentina hit NZ with everything they had and rattled them. NZ hadn't played for a while and were a bit sloppy.

Second half, NZ controlled the half from 45 min onwards and blew some tries they normally would have gotten. They won by 10 but it could have been 20+.


The match showed too that NZ can get rattled. They were making silly mistakes when the pressure came on. And this is just the first match for them! Being hot favourites is a heavy burden for teams.

As much as I would have liked to see Argentina win I think Wayne Barnes was ridiculously biased towards Argentina as he tends to be toward the team he wants to win.

I admire NZ and their attitude to refs. It is no secret Kiwis cant stand him and rightly so but I think it was a smart move as part of NZs WC preparation leading up to the WC to come out and say that Wayne Barnes was a lovely fellow as they knew he would be a nightmare for this game. Like them or not NZ are brilliant at trying to prepare for everything.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/72055007/all-blacks-captain-richie-mccaw-english-referee-wayne-barnes-a-top-bloke

GunsGerms wrote:As much as I would have liked to see Argentina win

Are you nuts Guns, that would mean we'll get NZ if we win our group!

That said Argentina don't look like pushovers at all, no one seems to be talking about them as potential SF or Finalists.....

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:As much as I would have liked to see Argentina win

Are you nuts Guns, that would mean we'll get NZ if we win our group!

That said Argentina don't look like pushovers at all, no one seems to be talking about them as potential SF or Finalists.....  

Who says we will win our group? I get what you are saying though but it would it would have been hilarious to watch the first ever WC game where both teams tried to lose.