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Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 1:23 pm

1986
------

Three champions............Tubbs, Thomas and Spinks.......

January - Remember like it was yesterday debating with guys in High about whether Tubbs speed and footwork would be enough to beat the defensively canny and bigger punching Witherspoon.......Picked Tubbs but it was a 50/50 spread and we all couldn't wait to see what happened... (Witherspoon close decision)

March - We all thought Pinky T was the next great heavy and the talk in high was whether he'd send another message post Weaver to Holmes/ Witherspoon and Spinks that he was the man by stopping the durable and charismatic Berbick........100/0 spread on this fight but it was a fight of interest.....(Berbick close decision)

April - The long awaited rematch between Holmes and Spinks........Would Larry jump on him this time ???.....Was Larry past it ???...What controversial crap would Larry harp on about in the run up ??..Eagerly anticipated rematch.........Probably 80/20 Holmes spread.....(Spinks robbery)......

2015
-----

Only Two champions........................ and by the way one of them apparently fought last night....

Heavyweight is crap.............Blame the actors and not the directors or the Producers.....


Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 27 Sep 2015, 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)

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Post by wheelchair1991 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 2:18 pm

I actually think there are a few interesting heavies coming up so hopefully within 2 years it will be a more interesting division

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 2:29 pm

wheelchair1991 wrote:I actually think there are a few interesting heavies coming up so hopefully within 2 years it will be a more interesting division

We can but hope............But If Brook and Quigg are anything to go by...............Can't see Eddie doing anything but getting a slice for Josh and finding the stiffest chumps around..

My prediction is they'll be four world champions in two years time..

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Post by wheelchair1991 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 2:40 pm

I agree with that, ican't see Hearn letting AJ near Wlad even though he's getting older, he will be fighting Wilder or Provetkin i think depending on who holdsthe WBC strap at the time. Aj is highky ranked with them and has been for a while

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 2:41 pm

Yep....When Wlad goes we'll have three belts on offer.............Unless Fury does him which is what i'm hoping..

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Post by wheelchair1991 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 2:42 pm

Can't see it myself

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Post by catchweight Sun 27 Sep 2015, 3:32 pm

In the U.S I think the division is screwed. The U.S still produces the athletes but they go into other sports now.

There is a famine of talent out there now but perhaps the European countries can start producing some quality heavyweights. Hopefully we get a few heavyweight versions of Golovkin or Kovalev in the near future.

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Post by kingraf Sun 27 Sep 2015, 4:44 pm

The problem is that the heavyweight division, by default will always have the slimmest picking of any division. 6'6 220lbs people don't just walk around. Then you find that the ones that do exist are snapped up by sports where they have a greater chance of success and mental faculty retention.
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Post by kingraf Sun 27 Sep 2015, 4:44 pm

Any division after say 122lbs
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Post by Lance Sun 27 Sep 2015, 4:53 pm

Between Wlad being so dull and none of the top contenders willing to fight each other it really is bad times for the division. Just look at Wlads recent opponents and then look at who they beat to earn a shot. Really is awful.

Tony Thompson only started fighting other decent names after he lost two shots at the crown. Sums it up for me. Areola has fought far better opposition after losing to Vitali. The champ is dull and you only have to beat one top twenty fighter and wait in the queue for him.

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Post by AdamT Sun 27 Sep 2015, 5:00 pm

Deontay isn't a great fighter, but he is decent to watch.

It's a pity Mr Haye got bad injuries. He could of made for exciting fights with Wilder and Noshua.

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Post by Nico the gman Sun 27 Sep 2015, 6:49 pm

The World Heavyweight title was once the crown jewel of boxing, now its just an embarrassment of a division littered with garbage, what a state its in.

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Post by Steffan Sun 27 Sep 2015, 7:30 pm

Doesn't help when you have a clown like David Haye giving people like Audley Harrison a shot and messing Tyson Fury about. Plus there was toe-gate. Hopefully Fury, Wilder and Joshua can make some good fights

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Post by 3fingers Sun 27 Sep 2015, 10:20 pm

catchweight wrote:In the U.S I think the division is screwed. The U.S still produces the athletes but they go into other sports now.

There is a famine of talent out there now but perhaps the European countries can start producing some quality heavyweights. Hopefully we get a few heavyweight versions of Golovkin or Kovalev in the near future.

The 70's and 80's weren't as good as history would make you believe. The world wide tentacles of American proganda, preoccupied with American athletes, is the reason that period is so highly regarded. Better boxers than now? Yes. As good as the hype? No

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Post by catchweight Sun 27 Sep 2015, 10:44 pm

History hasnt made me believe they were better. I saw them box. I know they were a lot better than the crap around today.

The 80s was not considered a vintage era for heavyweights when I began watching them. The "propoaganda" at the time was mainly how the division was in decline. There was no bigging up the era to be something special witht he exception maybe of Mike Tyson who was genuinely electrifying.

Little did people realise back then how truly terrible the division would really get. Maybe its considered a vintage era now by comparison to the last decade of total crap.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 27 Sep 2015, 10:44 pm

Norton....Foreman.....Ali......Frazier......Shavers......Lyle......Young....Quarry.....Holmes

What an overhyped sack of crap the 70s was...

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Post by catchweight Sun 27 Sep 2015, 11:32 pm

The U.S traditionally supplied over 90% of the heavyweight world champions and top contenders.

Now their top 5 heavyweights are:

Wilder
Jennings
Thompson
Arreola
Cunningham

In the case of Jennings and Wilder, these guys failed to make it as american footballer and basketballers. They took up boxing late. Jennings was a part timer until recently.

Thompson is over 40 years old and was never all that good to start with. Cunningham was more of cruiderweight and Arreola isnt much more than a grossly conditioned latino tough guy with a decent punch.

Even from the 1980s, which at the time was considered a decline, the current crop is pretty shocking for country with the U.S heavyweight tradition in the sport. Its unlikely to change either, while all the opportunites lie in track, nfl and basketball.

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Post by Guest Sun 27 Sep 2015, 11:57 pm

Who would become a heavyweight boxer nowadays?  Given alternate opportunities to make a living, alternate opportunities for hobbies & sports when young.  I suppose there is also health & safety regulations plus a lot more knowledge of what the sport can do to the brain.  Plus many of the heavyweights nowadays are "super heavyweights" who have a more stationary, defensive method of boxing.  Plus the proliferation of world titles to be won - although doesn't really apply that much to the current heavyweight decision given the dominance of Wlad & the klitchkos (Both doctors of sports science I believe).

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Post by catchweight Mon 28 Sep 2015, 12:10 am

In the U.S, only the dregs and leftovers of other sports are becoming heavyweight boxers.

It no longer offers the same way out as it used to. The number of boxing programmes offered by colleges is tiny, sholarships only a tiny fraction compared with other sports and much more safety, financial security and stability offered in other sports.

Wilder and Jennings are good examples of U.S heavyweights who had ambitions to play other pro sports and didnt make it so they took up boxing in their twenties. Both are currently ranked the top two U.S heavyweights in the world now.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 9:34 am

Well, the 'lead actor' would probably deal with 'Tubbs, Thomas & Spinks' as easily as most of the last 20 oppos he's managed fine.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 9:56 am

After the way you lost the plot on wheelies thread on Friday...

Best If I just agree with you... Cool

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:18 am

Who is the lead actor?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:21 am

Think he's talking about Wlad..

He's never seen Thomas, Tubbs and Holmes we know that..

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:23 am

He wouldn't beat Holmes for sure. Not sure about the other 2 Truss. Only seen videos.

Do you really think Tubbs would beat WLad?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:24 am

Corrie sanders did just by punching straight..

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:26 am

Yes but Wlad has improved somewhat from then.

It would be similar to knocking Khan for his early loss.

Not satying Tubbs wouldn't win, I didn't start properly watching boxing until early mid 90's.

I know of one particular80's  heavy who would smash Wlad in a couple rounds.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:26 am

How has he improved......He's never fought anyone that punches straight since..

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:28 am

Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.

Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:32 am

So the division is bad but someone could have done it by now..

So you're admitting he's crap then..

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Post by Guest Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:35 am

AdamT wrote:Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.

Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
The world's greatest fear is that in few months we may be swapping the name Wlad for Fury.

Fury wins the title and Holmes will come out of retirement along with Bugner and Bruno. Even Smokin' Joe would rise from his grave to take on that chump.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:37 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think he's talking about Wlad..

He's never seen Thomas, Tubbs and Holmes we know that..

Did I say Holmes? Must've missed that..... Rolling Eyes

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:38 am

Funny how most say Tyson is overrated because he didn't beat anyone great and you're saying these 80's heavyweight were good.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:38 am

DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.

Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
The world's greatest fear is that in few months we may be swapping the name Wlad for Fury.

Fury wins the title and Holmes will come out of retirement along with Bugner and Bruno. Even Smokin' Joe would rise from his grave to take on that chump.

Fury does win the Joshua fight will dwarf the Groves - Froch one..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:40 am

AdamT wrote:Funny how most say Tyson is overrated because he didn't beat anyone great and you're saying these 80's heavyweight were good.

Tubbs beat Bonecrusher and Page...........Also beat unbeaten Bowe in most peoples eyes...........Look it up..

Witherspoon - Got ripped off against Larry.....Beat Tubbs, Page and Bruno..............

Thomas beat Weaver and Witherspoon..

Learn your history or don't waste my time..

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:41 am

AdamT wrote:He wouldn't beat Holmes for sure. Not sure about the other 2 Truss. Only seen videos.

Do you really think Tubbs would beat WLad?

Truss has a blinkered misty-eyed view of the 80s. Never can actually explain or justify why those guys would so comfortably deal with a 6'6" 245lb athletic & mobile heavy hitter like Wlad that's cultivated a style under Manny Steward that none have been able to succumb. Despite, apparently, it being as simple as 'punching straight' (let's ignore that it wasn't a straight punch that Sanders took Wlad out with, it was a cross/hook from memory).

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:42 am

Go away..

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:44 am

From what I have seen I would still back Wlad.

Would definitely back his brother to smash the 80's heavies other than Holmes or Tyson.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:46 am

Why who has he beat in their league...????? Who..

Who has he beat with their skill set....

Come back after you've watched them fight.

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Post by Guest Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:49 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
AdamT wrote:Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.

Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
The world's greatest fear is that in few months we may be swapping the name Wlad for Fury.

Fury wins the title and Holmes will come out of retirement along with Bugner and Bruno. Even Smokin' Joe would rise from his grave to take on that chump.

Fury does win the Joshua fight will dwarf the Groves - Froch one..
Don't hold your breath! The empty can rattles the most and Fury made David Haye look like the Dalai Lama at certain points.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:51 am

Haye sparring a week before the first fight ..........

Fury looked like Stephen Hawking when he said Haye would bottle out of the second fight too....


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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:51 am

I have watched them fight in youtube.

So because I didn't live then I shouldn't comment?

You have a strong opinion on Louis vs Ali.

Were you around to see Louis fight? Perhaps your opinion is no more valid than mine on the 80's fighters.

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Post by Mayweathers cellmate Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:54 am

All you've got to do to beat the K's is bob and weave, get on the inside and go to the body. How on earth would Vitali Klitschko been able to deal with Tony Tubbs and Greg Page??? being a 6' 7" wrecking machine with an iron jaw isn't going to get you far against those guys.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:54 am

AdamT wrote:From what I have seen I would still back Wlad.

Would definitely back his brother to smash the 80's heavies other than Holmes or Tyson.

Go watch some YouTube videos. I did. Unlikely it'll change your opinion though. As the corollary of Truss standard trumped out argument is who did any of those guys fight/beat akin to Wlad??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:54 am

If you've watched them fight then you'll know they have a pedigree..and are well schooled.....

Wlad has never fought in that league..

Ali beat plenty of fighters as good as Louis..

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:56 am

"plenty of fighters.......as good as someone I never saw fight" Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:56 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Haye sparring a week before the first fight ..........

Fury looked like Stephen Hawking when he said Haye would bottle out of the second fight too....

Talking about Fury shooting his mouth about his chances of winning. I don't doubt he has belief but even against someone like Wlad, you need a bit more than that and Fury is going to have to fight about three times better than he's ever done before to stand any sort of chance.

Also, didn't know Hawking was famed for his psychic ability!!!!

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Post by AdamT Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:56 am

Truss you and I both know Ali is better.

However the point still stands. If some older guy is arguing with you about it, he could tell you to clear because you have never see Louis fight.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 10:58 am

Well If we both know ali is better why did you bring it up.............

I saw Tubbs fight on film...I saw Louis fight on film

What a stupid remark...

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Post by Guest Mon 28 Sep 2015, 11:00 am

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:All you've got to do to beat the K's is bob and weave, get on the inside and go to the body. How on earth would Vitali Klitschko been able to deal with Tony Tubbs and Greg Page??? being a 6' 7" wrecking machine with an iron jaw isn't going to get you far against those guys.
And all you have to do to be Mayweather is put him under "intelligent pressure" and not let him dictate the pace of the fight..............

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 28 Sep 2015, 11:02 am

I think I actually saw the 38 yr old, unmotivated, sluggish Lewis actually miss with a punch he threw at Vitali..

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Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ...... Empty Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......

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