Shanghai Masters

First topic message reminder :

May as well get a topic started. Things have started with a bang, with Roger going down to Ramos Vinolas in three sets.

The rest of him doesn't

JuliusHMarx wrote:I'm fascinated by Raonic's hair - would it move even in a hurricane?

Hair? Who said it was hair?

I am old enough to remember when Action Man had painted on hair rather than the imitation crew cut stuff that got put on in the mid 70's. I can tell a plastic lid when I see one.

Rafa stands so far behind the baselinne he is sometimes not even in the picture, which makes it hard to look at his backside, or any part of him. Maybe that is why he is always picking at his shorts. It's part of a clever marketing strategy to draw attention to a certain part of his body to win more fans. I know for a fact that women find men who fiddle with their clothes and have nervous tics really hot.

I just looked at the tournament last year, and Federer even last year almost lost in the first match, after that he stormed through the rest of the tournament. A similar thing has happened in the past. Cincinatti lost first match to Murray in 2006 at a time when he was reaching the final of every event. Madrid 2012 didn't he nearly lose to Raonic early on before winning the event.

Back to Rafa, some good results, but how do we see him against Warwinka? Still, even if he loses, are we starting to get the feeling he'll do better next year?

I suspect Rafa will beat Stan tomorrow. Stan hasn't looked in great form himself. Djokovic will crush Tomic. Murray should beat Berdy and the final match is 50-50. Good set of QFs generally.

As well as Raonic does the things he does, his game is too one dimensional. I don't see him cutting through a solid draw - let's say three matches, QF, SF, and F, to win a Major unless the draw does him some big favours. When his A game is not 'on,' there just isnt' a B, C or D to fall back on with him. Wish him well, and perhaps he'll broaden his repertoire, but until then - perennial QF with a SF or F thrown in, outside of Majors (the F, that is!).

Born Slippy wrote:Stan hasn't looked in great form himself.

Wawrinka should have beaten Cilic in straight sets. He had an MP.

Fairly easy start for Rafa. His basic game exposes Stan's relatively poor movement and he's not made many errors so far. Stan needs to redline it and hope as his standard game isn't making an impact.

Stan saves 2 set points but yet more errors and its 6/2 to Rafa. Doesn't look like Stan believes he can win this match. Playing very poorly.

7 games in a row for Rafa. A few signs of improvement from Stan but generally still unable to work out how to play this match.

Shocking game from Stan. Looks like he wants out as soon as possible.

Really poor from Stan. Suspect the ATP may look into his lack of effort in the 2nd set.

Rafa looked good though. Forehand was much more dominant than for most of the year. Should make the final now.

Great stuff in the 2nd set there from Stan to not give Nadal any rhythm.

Barry Cowan not taking into account during this rant that Cedric Mourier may be a huge Stan fan.

It was a proper tank that. Hilarious though that Cedric warned him over two points where he actually did put some effort in.

Good start to the Novak v Tomic match. Novak broke for 4-2 but was immediately broken back. Now 4-4. Some cracking rallies. Tomic looking like a top 10 player.

Didn't see the Rafa v Stan match, but scoreline looks impressive for Rafa. Reading above though Stan didn't show up?

Rafa good? Stan bad? A bit of both?

Tomic is giving Djokovic a game here. Actually think Tomic could breakthrough next year. Perhaps top ten.

This is genuinely good quality, Tomic playing really well actually

Good set but Novak comes through. Will be interesting to see how hard Tomic fights in set 2.

Did Fed do a show up & pick my appearance cheque from Rolex?

Some one beat the crap out of Djoko, please, come onnnnnnnn, boring big eared git

I love Murray and Berdych matches, but it's nothing to do with the quality of Tennis

Here's two players who definitely won't be co-commentating when they've retired!!

Frightening set of tennis from Murray. 43% points won on FIRST serve for Berdych. Will Murray keep it up - dip in form usually expected at this point?

The hilarious part of that set was that Berdych was actually playing well!

Such strange results today, out of form nadal crushing wawrinka! Tomic giving Novak a bit of a match and now Murray thumping berdych (Berdych has been a real bogey player for Murray over the years but clearly not today)

Still think this match could change. Berdych has done really well to only be a break down given the absolute barrage of shots he's faced. Any slight dip and he's playing well enough to take advantage.

Awesome from Murray. Treated Berdych's serve with total contempt. On that form, he's favourite against Novak. Could be the match of the year given the form they are both in.

Berdych was only really a bogey player for Murray when

1) It was on clay - during the Scot's "what's this dirt stuff and why do we have to play on it" phase

2) He was carrying an injury - A couple of defeats coincided with his back troubles

3) When he allowed their obvious mutual dislike to affect his play. Often in his defeats he's been like a bear with a sore head, due to the fact he obviously has little respect for Berdych - i.e. using the wrong sort of emotion

Still annoyed why Murray didn't realise that a lighter summer schedule might have got him another slam

Will agree to disagree banbo.....berdych has consistently troubled Murray over the years, even in the us open the year Murray won it, berdych had him on the ropes until it got really windy.

I never understood why he caused Murray so many problems when Novak and rafa always dismantled berdych. Murray said himself a while back that his difficulty with berdych was that his power often took the match out of his hands. When berdych is in full flow he is like Murray kryptonite. However berdych doesn't play like that these days

Hmm, Berdych was in full flow today and got whipped. Agree with Banbro, the odd h2h was due to the clay and a couple of poor displays from Andy. There isn't actually anything about Berdych which causes Andy real problems.

The tired old argument (a Lydian favourite as I recall) that Berdych would have beaten Andy but for the wind at US12 is also a fallacy. Berdych coped with the wind extremely well that day. He took advantage of it to grab the 1st set whilst Andy was trying to adjust. All the evidence since is that, wind or not, Berdy wouldn't have got any more than a set.

slashermcguirk wrote:When berdych is in full flow he is like Murray kryptonite. However berdych doesn't play like that these days

Probably because Murray doesn't allow him these days and used to for some of the reasons I suggested, in the past.

The facts are, dismissing the two early matches in their formative years, that three of his defeats were on clay and we know what Murray's attitude was to that surface prior to last year. One of the others was in the the summer of 2013, when the back was becoming an obvious issue as he would only play one more main event before surgery

The only mystery defeat was the Paris Masters in 2011

Born Slippy wrote:Hmm, Berdych was in full flow today and got whipped. Agree with Banbro, the odd h2h was due to the clay and a couple of poor displays from Andy. There isn't actually anything about Berdych which causes Andy real problems.

The tired old argument (a Lydian favourite as I recall) that Berdych would have beaten Andy but for the wind at US12 is also a fallacy. Berdych coped with the wind extremely well that day. He took advantage of it to grab the 1st set whilst Andy was trying to adjust. All the evidence since is that, wind or not, Berdy wouldn't have got any more than a set.

It's also a myth that he used to lose to Berdych because of his power. If that was the issue how do you explain his record against Del Potro, Cilic and the others. Nice of Andy to be reasoned in explaining his defeats, but he clearly isn't that bothered by Bird Man's power as he wouldn't have beaten him seven times

Semi-Final Line Up
Djokovic vs Murray
Nadal vs Tsonga

Spot the odd one out.

evening all

a terrific performance by Murray it must be said. Re his H2H against Berdych: take away clay, and it's a fairly healthy 7-3 to Murray (6-2 if you ignore a win apiece in their infancy, taking results post 07 or so). Having said that, I don't think it's unfair to say that Murray has been bothered by Berdych's game in the past. This year though he seems to be more aggressive against him, and it's a tactic that's paid off handsomely with three comfortable wins: the one at the AO, where Murray dropped the first on a TB before cruising through the next three; a comfortable 6-4 6-4 win in Miami; and today's thrashing.

The more I watch Murray recently, the more annoyed I am by his US Open performance. In Montreal he was superb, including bullying Djokovic in the BH exchanges in the final, while his DC performance against Kokkinakkis was also special (again, particularly off the BH wing). Today was similar, and it was somewhat strange to see he actually hit fewer BH winners than Berdych (though his BH did set up a lot more points).

A case of what could have been, but hopefully bodes well for next year (and the end of this one). If him and Djokovic both bring their current form to the court tomorrow, it should be a high quality match (much like Montreal in fact). Looking forward to it.

Pleased to see Rafa back to good form - with the caveat that I didn't watch today's match, but the scoreline looks impressive. Could his final appearance last week have provided him with a spirits lift? In any case it would be good to have him back...

Pleased for Tsonga too, who fought hard to see off Anderson. A career of what-might-have-been really for Tsonga so far, with some great successes but too much inconsistency. Frustrating.

Yeah, when you see Murray play like today, it does drive home how many more slams he could/should have won. He is a special talent and its a shame we are getting towards the tail-end of the careers of 4 really incredible players.

If he plays like today, Andy will win tomorrow. The forehand was nearly flawless. However, reproducing that level under greater pressure won't be easy. I'm just hoping we get a real cracker.

I don't really get this whole thing about berdych having 3 wins on clay in his Murray rivalry, since when does clay not count?? Is it meant to be his fault that Murray is not as good on clay and therefore those 3 wins over Murray don't count as much as a hard court win? What does that matter, it's a tennis court and same conditions for both players.

Fact is Murray has been more comfortable against berdych this year but it doesn't hide the fact that berdych caused him trouble for years. Hardly a disgrace as berdych has been a top 10 player for about 8 straight years.

Of course clay counts but, until this year, Murray had beaten one top 10 player on clay in his career. Its hardly a good guide of whether someone causes him problems on hard court, which is what we were talking about here.

Rafa looked really good today MfC. As close to his pre 2015 level as I can recall. Stan was clearly tired (and tanked the second set) but he only got into that state because Rafa was so strong in the first.

Nadal played well, so did Tsonga taking out Anderson. Wawrinka was disappointing.

Really looking forward to Murray v Djokovic. Can Murray do it? I think he can.

Tsonga a set up on Rafa. Anyone watching?

Born Slippy wrote:Tsonga a set up on Rafa. Anyone watching?

Yep, me

Nadal hasn't been too bad, Tsonga has served great and in the first set hit a stunning backhand passing shot to get the break.

Rafa getting some control with an early break in set 2.

Tsonga really hurting Nadal in rallies off both wings.

Hmm, tasty bagel. Must be the first time Rafa has bagelled JWT?

WOW

Stunning 5 points in a row by Rafa to save his serve from 0-40 down.

Tsonga gets through at the end, played great, high quality match in sets 1 and 3.

So Rafa loses another close one. Tsonga with a good chance now for another Masters (and leaps up to 9th in the race - back in with a shot at the WTF).

For Nadal, the results in Asia (F Beijing, SF Shanghai) are on a par with those achieved in his best years, so on the face of it, not a concern at all. But still, not being near competitive with Djokovic in the first loss, and some poor decision making at the crunch in today's loss shows the gap to where he used to be.

Trusting the http://live-tennis.eu/race site, that's Nadal and Berdych qualified for the WTF, so 6 of 8 slots secured (assuming Murray plays of course).

Djokovic the youngest of those 6 (2 x 28 year olds, 1 x 29 year old, 2 x 30 year olds and 1 x 34 year old).

Yeah, if Kei happened to be injured (not beyond the bounds of possibility!) I think the average age of the wtf qualifiers would be over 30.

Djokovic still the youngest winner of a Masters event with only one more to go this year. A position he has now held for 8 years. Astonishing!