6 Nations - your predictions for rugby's new 2nd tier

Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

I reckon:

1. Scotland
2. England
3. Wales
4. Ireland
5. France
6. Italy

England to win 4 from 5 and finish second.

LondonTiger wrote:England to win 4 from 5 and finish second.

For a change...

Well injuries and WC fatigue will no doubt play a part, although the later less of an issue for England and Italy

Much also depends on whether England opt to revamp things or stick with what they have.

My very early prediction:

1.Wales
2.Ireland
3.England
4.Scotland
5.France
6.Italy

123456789. wrote:I reckon:

1. Scotland
2. England
3. Wales
4. Ireland
5. France
6. Italy

I think that could be close to the out come.

Scotland have looked the better of the home nations this rugby world cup. really pushing Australia to the last kick of tthe game.

Wales although had Australia in more or less the same position (but could not score a try all game even when Australia was down too 13 men) Scotland did at least score try's and only lost by 1 point.

majesticimperialman wrote:

123456789. wrote:I reckon:

1. Scotland
2. England
3. Wales
4. Ireland
5. France
6. Italy

I think that could be close to the out come.

Scotland have looked the better of the home nations this rugby world cup. really pushing Australia to the last kick of tthe game.

Wales although had Australia in more or less the same position (but could not score a try all game even when Australia was down too 13 men) Scotland did at least score try's and only lost by 1 point.

Jeez, Scotland are better at being underdogs. Shut up you lot!

First game for England and Scotland is vital.

England travel to Murrayfield.

England itching to right the wrongs of a bad world cup and Scotland raging at their exit. I can't wait for that one

mikey_dragon wrote:Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

With respect, I think Glasgow already are and have been the last 2-3 years.

I also think this WC was the kick-up-the-arse that England needed and will win the 6N next year.

Table:

England
Ireland/Scotland
Scotland/Ireland
Wales
Italy
France

The fixtures this year as as follows:

France v Italy
Scotland v England
Ireland v Wales

France v Ireland
Wales v Scotland
Italy v England

Wales v France
Italy v Scotland
England v Ireland

Ireland v Italy
England v Wales
Scotland v France

Wales v Italy
Ireland v Scotland
France v England

Scotland only get 2 home games this year, which makes it harder, but I definitely fancy us to beat England at Murrayfield on the first day of the tournament.

Ireland and Wales both have 3 home games. Ireland's draw looks good.

If England keep Lancaster, they won't win it.

If they ship him out and get a fresh start with someone who has no preconceptions about which piece goes where, then they might.

Wales or Ireland will win. Probably Wales though

England will finish second as normal

There are only 2 certainties in test rugby:

1. England will finish 2nd in the 6N
2. Wales will continue to lose to Aus

Everything else is up for grabs

1. England
2. Wales.
3. Scotland
4. France
5. Ireland
6. Italy

I'll change my mind later of course but for now.... trying to look ahead as to who'll be in shape and which sides will be fully interested.... that's how I see it.

Shocker at those predictions saint Altho England will finish 2nd. It's what we do...

England
Ireland
Scotland
Wales
France
Italy

England
Ireland
Wales
France
Scotland
Italy

England
Scotland
Wales/Ireland
Ireland/Wales
France
Italy

Oh and non stop talk from pundits about the Scots being the Dark Horses

Well England are blues away this year. Tough games in Paris under a (probably) newly coached rejuvenated France and an opeing game against a vastly improved confident Scotland.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

With respect, I think Glasgow already are and have been the last 2-3 years.

I also think this WC was the kick-up-the-arse that England needed and will win the 6N next year.

Table:

England
Ireland/Scotland
Scotland/Ireland
Wales
Italy
France

I didn't think Glasgow were that much better than Ospreys last season, though they certainly are now. I was also speaking from the perspective that both Glasgow and Edinburgh will be ahead of the four Welsh teams by the end of this season. Hopefully I'm wrong on that one but right now it's just the way I see it. The regions are crap and don't play at a high enough intensity to beat the best teams. The Irish and Scottish seem to be going through continuous improvement.

Too many variables really to predict.
Will England find the right coach / selections ( I'd be surprised if Lancaster is still in charge)
Will Wales find another plan to Gatlandball?  Or even if they stick with it can the others stop them?  ( NH teams seem to find it hard no matter how predictable it is)
Will Scotland play to their potential or self destruct in a welter of brainfarts
Are Ireland in terminal decline or can they be refreshed?
Will France continue with confused coaching and teams or will they find someone who can knit them together?
Will Italy continue to be whipping boys?

Going on the WC form

Scotland
Ireland
Wales
England
France
Italy

But its a whole new ball game

1. Wales
2. Ireland/England
4. France
5.Scotland
6. Italy

I know a sense of realism hurts but we have to be honest with ourselves at some stage and at least England will remain in this tournament beyond the first few games.

at least England will remain in this tournament beyond the first few games.

That hurts Rubes.....hurts :-(
;-)

TJ wrote:Too many variables really to predict.
Will England find the right coach / selections ( I'd be surprised if Lancaster is still in charge)
Will Wales find another plan to Gatlandball?  Or even if they stick with it can the others stop them?  ( NH teams seem to find it hard no matter how predictable it is)
Will Scotland play to their potential or self destruct in a welter of brainfarts
Are Ireland in terminal decline or can they be refreshed?
Will France continue with confused coaching and teams or will they find someone who can knit them together?
Will Italy continue to be whipping boys?

Going on the WC form

Scotland
Ireland
Wales
England
France
Italy

But its a whole new ball game

When I buy that Scottish country pub I have my eye on, I will now call it 'The Welter of Brainfarts'.

Italy must be favorite for the wooden spoon but outside of that it could be a very open competition.

Wales
England
Ireland
France
Scotland
Italy

The world rankings have been updated. It's obvious who the top 4 are now but the highest ranked NH team is Wales at fifth, followed by Ireland. To an extent it backs up my predictions for the outcome of the 6 nations in 2016 as I see Wales and Ireland in with the best shout whilst England have gone slightly backwards and France still in no man's land. Scotland finishing third is more opinion than anything else as they're ranked ninth just one position above Japan. It beggars belief how France have remained so high for all this time, personally I'd swap them around with the Scots.

None of the home nations teams beat a team ranked above them so there won't be any change in the rankings upwards. England were beaten by teams ranked below the so they do drop places. Were Argentina ranked above or below ireland? Were Wales above or below england before the match?

Wales were below England I think. Arg and SA were below Wales and Ireland before this weekend. Ireland drop down an extra space though because of their heavy defeat and I think that's reasonable. In my mind I don't think Scotland will beat Ireland or Wales in the 6 Nations on current form but can certainly beat France and England in murrayfield. They also won two against Italy before the World Cup so I'm fairly confident of them doing it again.

Can I just ask on what basis everyone seems sure that England will finish second? They ended this tournament in considerably worse shape than any of the other home nations and if they keep Lancaster, it's difficult to see how they will clearly improve enough to beat Wales or Ireland.

George Carlin wrote:Can I just ask on what basis everyone seems sure that England will finish second? They ended this tournament in considerably worse shape than any of the other home nations and if they keep Lancaster, it's difficult to see how they will clearly improve enough to beat Wales or Ireland.

Because England always manage at least one decent scalp in the 6 nations over Wales or Ireland resulting in a second place finish with the usual "Fantastic new era in English rugby and next year it will be the Grandslam" etc hype from the BBC and Telegraph

I would guess it's based on last World Cup cycle; four second place finishes! It'll be interesting to see who comes in and how they play under him. Wales and Ireland will be in better shape by Feb IMO but I'm not sure if England will be.

George Carlin wrote:Can I just ask on what basis everyone seems sure that England will finish second? They ended this tournament in considerably worse shape than any of the other home nations and if they keep Lancaster, it's difficult to see how they will clearly improve enough to beat Wales or Ireland.

I think they'll lose to Scotland at Murrayfield, Scotland are in a good place with a settled side, England are anything but settled, I think we'll see a similar side, in general rather in personnel, that came to Murrayfield in 2012 whereas we are in a much, much better place.

They'll beat Italy at home in the second round, they always do. Ireland against England at Twickenham is always going to be close but you've got to give the home side the benefit of the doubt.

Then there will be an enormous battle with Wales at Twickenham but England will have an awful, awful lot to prove for that game.

And France are bloody dreadful.

Scotland can beat anyone bar New Zealand.  They certainly could get a shove on Wales or Ireland easily I feel.

But will their 6N mentality come into it and will they get needlessly nervous about themselves?  I don't think Cotter will allow it.  He's finding his rhythm and comfort zone.

England will of course give a good account of themselves.  All the tension and pressure off them now and lots to prove under a less stressed atmosphere.  They were afraid of losing too much in their pool and so their attacking instincts died.  Those instincts will be back and vengeance will be on their mind.

I can't really see how their form over the last two years says they'll now simply whither.  Far too many good and proud players there.

We always finish second. I think that's it.

I think Wales will need to do something different at Twickenham. In the two games previous to the World Cup we were easily nullified. Not entirely sure why they didn't do that in the World Cup.

They nearly did mikey.... but then the pesky Welshmen got injuries and of course we all know what happens when that occurs....they increase quality 10%

Can't help but feel that this coming 6N, and current discussions about it, are akin to a 'least worst' or 'best losers' comp after our collective poor showing at the World Cup

SecretFly wrote:They nearly did mikey.... but then the pesky Welshmen got injuries and of course we all know what happens when that occurs....they increase quality 10%

Like the scots - the less they play the better they are

We were written off after the previous RWC run-in with the dwarves. Still finished 2nd.

If you think England have suddenly become a bad side.....good.

I would have thought that Wales and Ireland will be reasonably strong, bar injury. England, Italy and France results will be dependent on how their post World Cup reform goes. Scotland will hopefully push on from what they showed they can do at this RWC.

Hard to call but Ireland and Wales should be fighting out for the championship, Scotland will be in the mix and so will France and England with a bit of reform and rejuvenation. 

Italy don't have the players to win it yet, let's see what happens, they did play well at the end of the pool stage

Griff wrote:Can't help but feel that this coming 6N, and current discussions about it, are akin to a 'least worst' or 'best losers' comp after our collective poor showing at the World Cup

A big renaming ceremony! The NGEN (The Not Good Enough Nations)

Barney McGrew did it wrote:We were written off after the previous RWC run-in with the dwarves. Still finished 2nd.

If you think England have suddenly become a bad side.....good.

I thought England fans wanted to see their team win things? Not to always come second..!

Well not every side can beat anyone - on their day

Can I please wait until England have confirmed who will coach England going forward to 2019.....once Lancaster has been re-appointed then I can look forward to 4 more years of expensive under achievement from England and a 3rd place in next year's tier 2 tournament (I think we are being very rude to Japan....sorry)

majesticimperialman wrote:

123456789. wrote:I reckon:

1. Scotland
2. England
3. Wales
4. Ireland
5. France
6. Italy

I think that could be close to the out come.

Scotland have looked the better of the home nations this rugby world cup. really pushing Australia to the last kick of tthe game.

Wales although had Australia in more or less the same position (but could not score a try all game even when Australia was down too 13 men) Scotland did at least score try's and only lost by 1 point.

You will conveniently continue to gloss over the fact that Foley had a stinker with the boot and that whilst it is true that they scored more than Wales, Scotland also didn't strictly create much for their tries and still conceded five more than Wales.

Scotland are always capable of raising their game v SH teams. It doesn't necessarily mean a good six nations showing. You see strong Scottish performances most autumns. Are you basically saying Madge, that you expect them to beat England?

For what it's worth;

Ireland
Wales
England
Scotland
France
Italy

Wales - Strong, good squad, no one to fear in the NH
Ireland - Almost on par with Wales, weaker with injuries.
Scotland - Emerging from a dark period. Playing fast attractive rugby hope they can push on.
France - Starting to look a little better than the past 3 seasons. Coaching problems and a Top14 of foreign players hinder.
England - Size of structure should see them in the top 3 constantly, however, have been given plenty of time, coaches and big mouths to prove they just ain't good enough.
Italy- still trying should show Argentina how hard it will be.

Risca Rev wrote:

For what it's worth;

Ireland
Wales
England
Scotland
France
Italy

I think something like this too... or even maybe interchange the top end with 1. Wales, 2. Ireland,....

Would like to see Scotland do well too (i.e. win it) - but they'll need to get off to a good start at Murrayfield and then keep going.
I wouldn't write England off either. They will be champing at the bit... might even go all the way too if they get their act together.

We have both Ireland and England away and despite what's happened over the last few weeks those are two huge away games. Ireland and England will both be smarting from the World Cup whilst we will hopefully be welcoming back some injured players but more importantly I think we now have to start looking at certain positions and building a bit of strength at prop and No8

I thought that 2nd place is now officially England's under 6n rules. Achieve that so many times and you get to keep it ?
Best of the rest scrabbling for 1st or 3rd.

All depends on Englands set up next year but 2nd place is more than likely. A cynical view..
England-same old. A big win but a typical loss in Paris.
Wales-Gatlandball. Lose first game but get better.
Ireland-strong but over reliant on the Kearney kick/Sexton loop arounds.
Scotland-Chuck it around but ultimately fail.
France-Enigma.
Italy-Spoon.